The center/left Iraqi quagmire.

[FDRrocks]

I see that many on DU don't think we can pull out of Iraq. We can't, we fucked it up. What about Vietnam? Did we fuck it up? Yes, 10 fold. Did we have to pull out? Yes! Do they like us now? Probably not. Do they launch attacks on us? No. Is there a heavy Islamic influence there? Yes.

I don't see why we can't pull out. This has VIETNAM written all over it to me. We need out. And Dennis will do it.

[Guaranteed]

1. Mmmmmm I'm not quite at the point of

"let's just get the hell out of there" yet.

I don't know where that point will be.

We're just not finished yet. It would help to find Saddam, if that's still in the cards, so we know he won't take over again.

[Name removed]

2. Deleted message

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[xchrom]

5. what evidence do you have

that we would have stopped pol pot?
and i suppose that we were out fought in viet nam had nothing to do with our getting out of there?
that was a civil war -- and may i be so bold as to remind -- we merely replaced the french as occupiers.

[ThirdWheelLegend]

3. Find Saddam?

Is that what this is about?

Dennis does not plan on "get the hell out of there", as many detractors would lead you to believe. He has a well thought out year+ long plan.

http://www.kucinich.us/statements.htm#100903

here is just a portion:

"People are asking, is there a way out? I believe there is. I am writing to share with you a plan that will get the UN in Iraq and the US out. This plan could bring the troops home by New Year’s day, it will cost much less than the President’s, and it will increase American security.

* The President must go to the UN and announce the US intention to hand over all administrative and security responsibilities to the UN. The UN would help Iraqis move quickly toward self-determination.
* The UN, not the US, will administer Iraq’s oil revenues. It will be necessary to renounce clearly and unequivocally any interest in controlling Iraq’s oil resources.
* The UN will administer contracts to repair Iraq. War profiteering will no longer be practiced by the White House. It will be necessary to suspend all reconstruction contracts and close the US-led Coalition Provisional Authority, because of the suspicion caused by the sweetheart deals that the Administration has given to large American corporations. In its place, the UN would help Iraqis administer funds to employ Iraqis to repair the damage from the invasion."
snip>>>>

TWL

[OrAnarch]

4. If I were the man...

Id pull out tommorrow, literally, apologize to the entire world community, state my newfound good intentions, and then contact all the representatives of the Arab Union, pledge $100 billion dollars of direct financial support for their militarized stablization of Iraq and infastructure rebuilding (allowing them to oversee all contracts, troop deployments, politics, etc), and if needed, provide future diplomatic and business incentives to the countries involved (including Iraq).


If they still don't bite, set aside $200 billion for the project, as thats still a deal for us, plus fewer die on every side. Id have the balls to save face and end problems, save money, and clean up our messes the only truly viable way.


BTW...I "think", percentage wise, a few more arabic speaking people are in the Arab union than the UN, and although everyone loves to "internationalize" everything, perhaps this is a more pragmatic and sensible approach. Create a power vaccumm, wave a few billion in front of the best qualified people to deal with it, and let them get sucked in and fix it. This is abandoning nothing, as I feel it is the ONLY viable option at this point...this is beyond the UN and US in terms of a solution. Civil wars need to be mended and prevented by those familiar with and sensative to culture, with intrest directly in the community, and by those without targets on their backs there (white (american) people). :)


Oh yes, we shouldn't be there in the first damn place. But since I don't see us cleaning it up, lets get the hell out now, but stay involved only to fund the endevours of those who can truly fix it.

[teryang]

6. Humpty Dumpty sat on a wall.....

All the kings horses and all the kings men, couldn't put Humpty together again.

International crimes can't be "fixed" by the wrong doers.

Defense economics 101: "Sunk costs are no costs."

[Jacobin]

7. The left has been co-opted into the PNAC agenda

with the "we can't leave now" mantra.

We are surrounded in Iraq. Our concrete bunkers tell the tale. When we leave the bunkers in convoys to go to another bunker, the convoys are attacked and soldiers are killed.

The conquering president slips into the Baghdad airport for two hours at night to declare "victory" and sneaks back out again before the Iraqis know he there.

We have already lost. And no, we can't "fix it" any more than we would welcome conquering occupiers to come "fix" our country were we invaded.

Its only a matter of the number of transfer tubes that come home at night. It's not "if", its "when" we leave.

Some future president will take the brunt of the scorn for Smirk's adventure when our troops finally leave and the Iraqis rise up and begin engaging in a bloody civil war and our precious oil is denied to us.