The Rove Machine is moving to sink Dean.

[Jackpine Radical]

First it was the "Dean's the one we want...Heh Heh Heh" bit and now it's the Drudge story on Dean planning to take on McAuliffe after New Hampshire. This is all bullshit, and it's all being thrown by Rove & his puppets because they don't have a clue on how to handle Dean and his Internet Phenomenon. Just watch--or rather, listen--and I'll bet Rush is on-message, trying to squish Dean too by tomorrow. They want to strangle the Dean run in the cradle because they are :scared:

[TheBigGuy]

1. Dont forget the Parade blub

The blurb in Parade magazine this weekend on how Dean was "too liberal" even for Democratic activistis (doesnt seem to be the case at DU at least).

I do think theres a softening-up operation going on.

[tnlefty]

13. I'll be contacting Parade

That was inexcusable as the question was very vague and so was the answer. Nothing specific cited so I'll be forced to write them and ask for specifics about their answer.

[nolabels]

33. Remember, these are the guys who had Colin on the front page

They had the big box out at the time, you could tell they were using the magenta in full force.
http://www.boston.com/globe/magazine/2002/0317_walter_scott1.htm
(snip)
Exposed!

"Walter Scott's Personality Parade" is the gossip column for millions every Sunday. But there is no Walter Scott. There is Ed Klein, the former New York Times Magazine editor and member of the Council on Foreign Relations, now answering questions about Britney Spears's bellybutton.

By Neil Swidey, Globe Staff, 3/17/2002
(snip)

[caledesi]

39. They cannot label piegeon-hole Dean...that's the problem.

He's running a brilliant campaign...ala Clinton, the Big Dog...how I miss him.

[Cha]

2. Oh,,,I haven't used a bad word to describe them on the,,,,

DU2 yet,,,,so I'll just say...FUCKERS!!

[caledesi]

40. Zid, you don't have to "candy-coat" it..LOL! eom

[Jack Rabbit]

3. Not quite

Anybody who would even think about supporting Dean would not be the least bit influenced by anything Rush says.

What is Drudge's source about Dean taking on McAuliffe?

[diplomats]

10. I hadn't heard that bit about

Dean and McAuliffe. Could anyone elaborate.

[Jackpine Radical]

14. It's an unnamed source

for the McAuliffe story--exactly my point. And Rush doesn't have to get it out to the Dean people. They just want a million dittoheads running around spouting their "common knowledge" that Rove thinks Shrub can take Dean.

[Jack Rabbit]

26. Not many Dean supportes will listen to an brigade of dittoheads, either

When somebody in the DLC disses Dean, that's another matter. These guys are supposed to help Democrats get elected and shouldn't be publicly criticizing one. For the Right Wing pundits or Rove to talk like that can be dismissed with a simple, "Well, the sky is blue, isn't it?"

If The New York Times says that Dean and his people are plotting against McAuliffe, that would have some credibility. Drudge could be making a mountain out of mole hill (for example, someone in the Dean camp said he thought that maybe Dean would replace McAuliffe with his own choice if he becomes the nominee). That would be just about his speed.

[Jackpine Radical]

29. There will be a lot of people voting in the primaries

with Democratic inclinations and an ABB sentiment but with shallow commitments to any specific candidate. It's these people who can make or break a candidate, and if they think Dean's a loser, that would urt a lot. They won't even know that the message is from Rove via Rush, just that the Repugs are hoping Dean gets the not 'cause they know they can beat him.

[caledesi]

41. Exactly JR....I am the least bit influenced by this crap.

Dean is a winner.

[Capn Sunshine]

4. OR ...is it double blind disinfo?????

intended to make us THINK that's what they wanted us to think so we support him anyway while the guy they REALLY want to run, Lieberman, attracts all the left wingers....
WAIT> Rove is EVIL, but not EVIL ENOUGH TO BE THAT SMART.

Or is he?
:nuke:

[Condor9]

9. Dumb like a fox

So, why would ol Wiley Rove want us to believe that Dean is a loser and the one he wants to go up against? Because he wants to push as many folks as he can away from supporting the Guv.

:kick:

[caledesi]

42. That's right Condor.

Karl Rove was hanging around with Dean supporters on the 4th just to "get the scoop." He just wants to see why people are attracted to this candidate, so he can get his strategy together.

[Jackpine Radical]

19. Well, I sure don't hear Rove saying

"Bring on Sharpton."

The only thing you need to know about Rove is that anything he says is calculated to serve his purpose. If you know his purpose, you can judge the probity of his message--so you don't need the message. If you don't know his purpose, you don't know the truth value of the message, so you can't trust it. In either case, the only rational thing to do is to ignore the message except insofar as you need to take heed of it in order to counter it for naive listeners.

[Pepperbelly]

5. they NEED to be scared because

any one of our candidates makes the chimp boy look like the fraud, poseur, and fool that he is.

/

[ColumbusGirl]

6. they NEED to be scared because

they are starting lose thier grip on disinformation...and there is no depth to back it up.

And by the way, the Three Stooges look like statesmen compared to *

[Cha]

8. Welcome Aboard DU2, ColumbusGirl!

[Pepperbelly]

20. I would take Howard, Fine or Howard over this ...

rat bastard any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

[Cha]

7. Those are 3 excellent words to describe the chimpman.

by Steve Bell
from bartcop.com

[caledesi]

43. OMG! Zid, that is great! Leave it to the Brits.

[Nicholas_J]

18. They are not afraid

All polls show Bush in the lead.

They need to keep the party split AS LONG as possible, and Deans attack of the DLC and other candidates is EXACTLY the split they desire. It could not have been better if they had planned it themselves. The longer it takes to weed out candidates, and consolidate a united platform against Bush, the better is is for the Bush administration. No one is running against Bush. His polls are lower than they should be, which REQUIRES that ROVE try to keep Democrat polls as low as possible, for as LONG as possible.

[desi826]

34. I think they are

Nicholas_J wrote:

"All polls show Bush in the lead."

But not by much and that's more because most are not paying any attention, and there is no one candidate yet.

"They need to keep the party split AS LONG as possible, and Deans attack of the DLC and other candidates is EXACTLY the split they desire. It could not have been better if they had planned it themselves. The longer it takes to weed out candidates, and consolidate a united platform against Bush, the better is is for the Bush administration. No one is running against Bush. His polls are lower than they should be, which REQUIRES that ROVE try to keep Democrat polls as low as possible, for as LONG as possible."

This has nothing to do with Rove.
The reason why there is fraction is because it is the primary season, not because of anything that Rove did.
Rove can only be held accountable if he were reponsible for extending the primary season in some way and he sure as hell isn't doing that.

So that makes it doubly telling that all this disinformation is coming out on Dean when they cannot do anything to shorten or lengthen the primary season anyway.
So the motivation has to be that they want to affect the outcome of the primary process.
Remember the rule: you can always tell who is the REAL threat to the Bushies and Repubs by how badly they are attacked by the media. Whoever gets the most negative stories or comments, is the candidate the White House fears the most.
Since that appears to be Dean, I would say that the Bushies really don't want to face him.
Dean

[aquart]

36. Reelect polls do NOT show Bush in the lead.

What is he? 40%? That leaves how many voters waiting for the Dems to make a choice?

[Terwilliger]

11. you know you can edit the subject line

or did you? ;-)

[Jackpine Radical]

16. Edit the subject line?

Duh.

[Cascadian]

12. In a way...... it might benefit Dean

When you think about it. Dean is a fighter and will not hold back. He is like a pitbull. This is why he is getting the growing support he is getting and this is why people like the DLC and the Bushies are attacking him. They are taking him seriously. He is the best candidate the Demos have fronted in a long time. I do not understand why there are some people who think Dean will be another Dukakis. He is certainly no Dukakis. That's just bunk!

John

[Kolesar]

15. Revel in the publicity. It does not cost anything

17 months from November 2004 and only us political addicts are thinking about the presidency. Dr. Dean is getting exposure to people who have never heard his name. "There is no such thing as bad publicity".

[Cha]

22. Nobody is going to be another anybody....they just like to...

drudge up these comparisons from the past that mean nothing...that was then,,,this is now...

Too bad they don't learn from history...since they are so infamous for plucking names from the past!!

[RedSox02]

17. Remember the book Bush Dyslexicon?

Well in that the author pointed out how the Right wing media establishment will start these rumors but make it sound as if they are just asking a question when they really are planting the seeds. He used great examples from the 2000 Presidential debates where Bob Novak, george Will and others in their post-debate analysis would simply float out descriptions of how Gore might have failed and then say "well we will have to wait to see what the polls say", when they really are just trying to influence the polls by raising the point.

Dean is a good example here. Someone simply asks the question "Is Dean too Liberal?" and then the viewer simply assumes if the question is asked, the answer must be true.

[Jackpine Radical]

21. Nice technique. Let's try a few more:

Is Bush a deserter or did he just go AWOL? (Wow--get a discussion on this going at your local VFW).

Is Bush a pathological liar or does he only lie when it gains him something?

I like that--ask a question that assumes the validity of your major premise and get the debaters involved in details that accept the premise.

Sort of a refinement on "When did you stop beating your wife?"

[Cha]

24. Why did bush cut the Veterans benefits and their children's too?

Why did bush say .."mission accomplished"?,,,and there has been over 60 Soldiers who have died in Iraq since then...?

Why does bush favor all the legislation that supports corporations and not the People?

Why does bush want the investigation of 9/11 covered up?

How many lies did bush tell regarding going to war on Iraq?

I'm just getting warmed up, of course!

[bowler_4_columbine]

27. I think you've got it!!

We could get a lot of mileage out of this question thing come election time!!

:toast:

[Jackpine Radical]

30. I might rephrase your first question as

"Did more American soldiers die in Iraq before or after Bush declared "Mission Accomlished?"

"Which part of 9-11 is Bush more concerned with covering up--the failed pipeline deal or the fact that he knew beforehand that an attack was going to happen?"

Which lie was worse--the one about the uranium from Niger or the one about the bio weapons trailers?

The trick is to first get them to buy into the underlying assumption (Bush lied; the war is turning into a quagmire; Bush is running a coverup on 9-11) and then get them into thinking about specifics.

[bowler_4_columbine]

23. There's a lot of peeing in the pants on DU about Karl Rove...

I'm not saying he's a 'moran' but it's a lot easier to be a genius when you've got ALL of the television media in your hip pocket. I'd like to see what would have happened in the last Presidential campaign if Bill Clinton would have been given the same defferentil treatment over the StainGate scandal as * has been given on a whole host of (what should be) scandals. From the nose candy rumors to the cover up of the intelligence lapses before 9/11. Rove is smart, but he's not the second coming of Jesus Christ.

If there's one thing I'd like to see the Democrats do during this next election cycle it's try to get the TV media to take a more fair and balanced approach to covering politics in general. The networks and cable news stations need to be called on their shit constantly. Actually, I think we have to do this year-round. Conservatives are even starting to acknowledge that TV media is slanted to the right!! That's BAD!

[Cha]

25. Some People are working on a Liberal media station...

http://www.anshellmedia.com and Al Gore is in the works, too...for this kind of outlet for us..otherwise,,,they are just covering their collective corporate asses!

[bowler_4_columbine]

28. It's a great idea

Maybe a good liberal media station would dispel the myth that people just aren't interested in liberal talk. I personally think that the assertion that nobody wants to hear liberal talk is BS. Liberals want to hear GOOD liberal talk. Someone with some FIRE to match the conservative hacks. I'm a big fan of Al Franken (He said that he's involved in getting the station started if you saw him duke it out with O' Rieley on CSPAN) He could kick some right wing ass!

[Cha]

38. Mike Malloy is Excellent on week nights from 9pm to Midnight...

http://www.ieamericaradio.com

I just started listening and I'm hooked!!

He thinks like I do about all this crap ...but he can get up there and rant his head off about it ,,,very entertainly!! and Funny, too!

[Jackpine Radical]

31. I agree that Rove looks like a genius because he only plays

with loaded dice. I also agree that the media are among his loaded dice. Given the corporate (and largely military-industrial) ownership of the media, this is no accident, and it will be really hard, maybe impossible, to get more balanced coverage in the near future.

I think what scares Rove about Dean is that Dean is beginning to figure out how to use the Internet and other methods as a way of making an end-run around the mass media. Rove has no clue about how to fight that kind of battle, and wants to kill off the Dean campaign as quickly as possible so he can fight a more conventional (which is to say mass media-dominated) campaign against a less internet- sophisticated candidate.

[annagull]

32. Wow, Jackpine--that's a great observation!

I had not thought about that angle. That will also bring in alot of young voters, and we saw what happend when the young voters picked Clinton.

[aquart]

35. Yup. That was my reaction, too.

Dean is scaring them.

[fshrink]

37. Excellent. The Dr. needs some training.

nt