Another reason to frown at SUVs.

[Tigermoose]

This is pretty simplistic, but it occurred to me the other day and I thought I'd share.

SUVs cause an increase in the demand for gas, and therefore necessarily increase the price we all pay at the pump. I wonder how much the large increase in gas prices in the last few years has been due to your neighbors' road-tanks?

[LuCifer]

1. I 2nd the motion...

and to top it off, today's SUV (Sucky Ugly Vehicle!) gets an average of LESS than a 1950's MODEL T!!!!!!!!!!!!

This week, I FINALLY say for the first time, one of those hybrid cars, which is amazing, since no one gives a shit about the environment here in South Florida...hope springs eternal or something.

[slackmaster]

3. Model T production was 1908 - 1927

Engine production continued until 1941.

See http://www.mtfca.com/ for more information than you ever dreamed existed about the Model T.

BTW - Although some of the larger modern SUVs do use more fuel per mile driven then a Model T, the amount of pollutants they dump into the air is a tiny fraction of what the older vehicles put out.

[Brian Sweat]

6. They stopped making the Model T in 1927

Also, Floridians are some of the most environmentally conscience voters in the country. That was why a hard right winger like Jeb Bush was so opposed to offshore drilling in the Gulf of Mexico. He knew that if he did not oppose his brother, the voters in Florida would eat him alive. Put any silly environmentally issue up for a referendum vote in Florida and it will pass with no problem. Take the fishing net ban passed in the early 90's. Most environmental groups opposed it as too restrictive and ineffective, but it sailed right through. The high speed rail is another good example.

[soup]

2. Have you seen this site?

http://www.stopsuvs.org/html/ford_models.htm

Click on the 'drop downs' at the top of the page for more models and info. (also a few *bush admin smackdowns)

[KCDem]

8. cool, good to hear that the Excursion is being discontinued!

I can't _stand_ those vehicles. Behemoths made for fat, lazy, selfish bastards.

Recently, I saw one of them with a bumper sticker: "America Needs America's Oil". Well, no shit, if you're getting that kind of mileage. Grow a brain and realize that if fuel standards were raised, oil wouldn't be so much of an issue. Sheesh.

[Liberal Veteran]

15. Need to get rid of Hummers altogether....

Who the fuck needs a Hummer to drive around in the city?

[lslaux]

21. Who needs 'em?

Arnold, an people like him.

[Liberal Veteran]

26. Yeah, but no matter how big his SUV his....

We have all seen his teeny weeny he is compensating for.

[slackmaster]

31. TME OUT!

Since when is the acquisition of personal property in the USA dependent on need?

I can think of only one kind of thing that requires proof of need to purchase: Prescription drugs.

[Liberal Veteran]

34. Chill dude!

Nobody said we would outlaw them entirely, but the government does have an interest in making sure that certain vehicles get decent gas mileage.

There is blood being being spilled right now in order to secure a good supply of oil and wasting that resource in such a flagrant and vulgar way is at least worthy of our derision.

[slackmaster]

55. Sorry, but the word "need" always raises my hackles

Tyrants often use phrases like "you don't need" this or that as an excuse to place arbitrary restrictions on individual choices.

You don't need to drive a Hummer.

You don't need to see a search warrant.

You don't need a jury trial.

You don't need a gun.

You don't need to have more than one child.

etc.

[OldSoldier]

41. There is a purpose for Hummers...limited, but there is one

My father designed roads for the government for 40 years. His last job was doing logging roads for the Forest Service. A Hummer would have been perfect for his work; the whole purpose of this vehicle is to go where there are no roads. (Since there were no Hummers while he was locating, he used a Honda Trail 90. Worked well.)

I would be shocked if, out of all the Hummers sold to civilians to date, a hundred of them are being used where nothing else will do.

[HFishbine]

44. The

fearful.

[Brian Sweat]

22. Much better site

http://poseur.4x4.org/">The Ultimate Poser Sport Utility Page


And my next vehicle.




FEATURES

• Fits under MOST bridge underpasses.
  
• The first SUV to be rated in Gallons per Mile by the EPA
  
• Meet interesting people while waiting in line at Interstate Weight Stations.
  
• When kids do the arm signal, you get to honk that really cool air horn!
  
• Get a big rush when your Firestone tires blow out.
  
• Lots of road-hugging weight for occupant protection, the ULTIMATE in safety.
  
• Can seat 20. Go ahead, take the WHOLE soccer team.
  
• Can tow your camper, yacht, a trailer-load of frozen pizzas, or even your house!
  
• Yours for under $200,000 ($100,000 for truck chassis + $100,000 standard SUV markup)
  

[Sinistrous]

28. I love that page.

Reductio ad absurdum is one of the purest forms of sarcasm.

[ArkDem]

4. There is such a broad range of SUV's, some of which get very good

gas milage. Broad generalizations are rarely correct.

[Tigermoose]

7. So, are you disagreeing that the increased popularity of SUVs

has not led to an increase in gas consumption?

[Brian Sweat]

9. OK

Put the word "some" in front of SUV where ever it appears in Tiger Moose's post and it will be accurate and just as pertinant.

Three is no question that a RAV4 or a Honda CR-V get good gas milage. They are also not nearly as big as an Expedition, Suburban or even a 4Runner. When people refer to SUV as oversized gas hawgs, you can bet the mean the ones that are oversized gas hawgs.

[ArkDem]

25. Then that is what they should state if they want to be

accurate.

[Liberal Veteran]

5. I own an SUV, but.....

It's a Toyota Rav 4. It's a 4 cylinder and gets decent gas mileage about the same mileage as a normal sized car.

[Giverney]

10. Hello All

I'm new so I'll make this quick.
I'm unfortunate enough to have to live in Texas right now.

the amount of HUGE trucks and SUVs is sickening.
arg... the pollution is horrible. The rednecks are simply clueless.

[GOPisEvil]

16. Welcome! And you are right about Texas....

...the sheer amount of large SUVs and HUGE pickups is mind-boggling. I know some of them are needed, but I would guess those are in the minority.

[trogdor]

32. I just love it when I debate this topic amongst the civilian population.

That is, non-DUers. Without fail, some clown will get on talking about how he NEEDS his Suburban to tow his big-ass boat, haul 50 pound bags of whatever, and take his eight kids to wherever.

I suppose if you have a big-ass boat, or eight kids, or a gigantic dog, or live on top of a mountain in lake-effect country, you might need a Suburban. Heck, I could have moved up there, too. It's nice country. It also snows like nobody's business in the winter, the nearest grocery store is half an hour's drive away, and there's nothing to do apart from looking at the pretty scenery, which is why I choose not to live there.

My one teenager eats me out of house and home already; I can imagine what having a half-dozen of them around would be like. No thanks.

Don't even get me started with large breed dogs and my living room.

Needless to say, the number of people who really need a heavy-duty vehicle on a regular basis is very small. Yes, they exist, but there just aren't that many of them. I would say the best way to regulate them is at the gas pump. Gas at $2.50 a gallon wouldn't affect us Honda Civic drivers all that much, but it would make people think for at least a minute whether they really need something as big as a Suburban, and opt for the Subaru instead.

[Skittles]

18. WELCOME TO THE DU GIVERNEY

I live in Texas too and you are right; every other vehicle is a g.d. SUV or BIG ASS TRUCK. Half of them are waving Wal-mart flags. :puke:

[Robb]

19. Welcome to DU

...try not to throw around "redneck" too casually. Some of my best friends here take offense! :)

As to SUVs... every car is a gas user. SUVs just use more. We have two vehicles in my home. My wife drives an Explorer over an oft-snowy mountain pass to work. And I drive an EBike. So if I've got a functional gas hog and a ZEV, what am I?

We want to replace the hog with the new Prius... but what about the pollution costs associated with creating a new car? Shouldn't we drive this one into the ground, then park it in the front yard and plant daisies in it, before we get a new one?

[KCDem]

52. welcome to DU!

Where are you in TX? I moved to Houston about 8 months ago. Sheesh, I didn't even know what an F150 was before I came here. Now, I find myself sandwiched between F250s and F350s on the highway all the time.

Ugh.

[Giverney]

54. hahah

I live in Houston too.
hahahah F950 driving down the road taking up two lanes.
Sory about the use of a R-neck, I wont again.

Also I know SUV's are usefull if you're in Colorado, and NEED a 'sport utility' like snow and blizzards, I've been in one and yes we needed the 4-wheel drive.

but visit Texas sometime and see some cowboy or lady (putting on makeup and using the cellphone) drive a house down the road :)

[Drifter]

11. It depends on why you own an SUV

I believe there are legitimate reasons for owning an SUV. Could be job or hobby related.

Owning an SUV because it is the latest "thing" or because the Johnsons across the street have one, is just plain stupid.

I do not own an SUV, because I do not need one. We have a mini-van. OK on gas milage, but because we need the passenger space (with 3 girls) it is a must.

Cheers
Drifter

[Tigermoose]

14. I'm more just making an observation than condemning SUVs

to the eternal hell-fire pits of oily damnation.

Just saying, "Hey, you know, the reason gas prices are going up is that we are demanding more gas because of poor efficiency."

a pretty simple observation, but one that might have some traction with your average American. But, probably not...its just another case of the Tragedy of the Commons.

[Skittles]

20. enough with the PASSENGER SPACE

I grew up with five brothers and we did fine in a CHEVY IMPALA.

[FlaGranny]

35. You probably did do fine in an Impala,

but you know what? - you didn't have seat belts then. Have you ever seen a modern sedan with more than five seat belts? Since it's against the law to not wear seat belts, any family with more than five members is "required" to own a bigger vehicle if they ever want to go anyplace together.

[JNelson6563]

12. I think that the manufacturers

should be held accountable. They love their profits too much to invest in more fuel efficient design or, Goddess forbid, alternate fuels.

I have a Jeep Grand Cherokee that gets pretty darned good mileage, better than the old mini-van I replaced it with. I also have a Honda Civic that is about this < > big. It is the main running around car and I love it.

I would be happier if families did what we did even, instead of 2 SUVs, have one tiny car. That would help at least.

Mostly though we need to put pressure on Detroit.

Julie

[Cheswick2.0]

13. I frown at them all the time

but they are too high in the air compared to my taurus and they just keep truckin down the highway anyway. Even my most powerful frowns don't seem to bother them at all.

[slackmaster]

30. We're smiling back at your Taurus

Because your car is our "crumple zone".

:evilgrin:

[rman]

36. but you'll run out of gass first

last laugh..

[Cheswick2.0]

49. lol

funny

B-) <----- Cheswick in her car

[Kanola]

64. If a big assed SUV dare hits me

I have promised my husband and vice versa that we will own that SUV's owner's family by the time we are finished with them. They are too damn big and can cause great damage to a smaller (and more gas efficient car) on impact. I have seen these idiot drivers in their "penis mobiles" drive like idiots and swerving in and out of of lanes. I DARE them to hit me.

[Skittles]

17. I F***ING DESPISE SUVs

They are a SYMBOL OF AMERICAN ARROGANCE. Sickening.

[bunnyhop]

23. Well of course that's true

But i don't think you'll get very far with that argument since that can be said about everything. Bettter to emphasize that highway tanks are dangerous to the other drivers on the road. That's why they're so popular.

[catmandu57]

24. Gasoline cost 1.44

a gallon here, better than other places, but, still a pain in the wallet. My little Subaru all wheel gets good milage and takes me where I need to go.
There are sensible alternatives to driving suvs,my personnal preference is for the subaru, but toyota, and honda make alternatives also.
People driving hogs aren't going to listen to rational arguments about using up the limited resources. Most of them just flip you the bird wave the murikan flag and drive off.
Gasoline is just one reason to hate these things, the fact that we're involved in the hostile takeover of a sovereign country that just happens to be oil rich is another reason.
Having our foreign policy driven by energy is not a good policy, especially when these secretive bastards stole the government and are busy creating the biggest income gap in our history, killing all social programs that don't benefit the wealthy.
So go on drive vehicles that get eight miles to the gallon, and when they show pictures of dead american soldiers on the streets of Iraq, smile and put another fifty gallons of blood in your tank.

[slackmaster]

27. Frown at my Pathfinder all you want, I still like it

Despite getting about 10% lower fuel mileage than my 1985 pickup, my '98 Nissan Pathfinder runs on 87 octane gasoline; the older vehicle protested anything below 89. The price differential makes the two cost about the same to drive. I mention this because money is much more of a motivator for most people than fossil fuel consciousness.

The newer vehicle puts out a lot less carbon monoxide and nitrogen oxides, plus it has a lot more modern safety features including anti-lock brakes and front seat air bags.

[meisje]

29. I love my trailblazer!!

I have a kid,wife,dog, and I use it for my business. Simply put, I Could not live without it!!!!! I live in a very liberal neighborhood and many of my liberal friends drive suv's, so you SUV haters will just have to deal.

[ma4t]

37. threads like this scare me

OK, I'll admit a few things up front.

1. I'm much more libertarian oriented than leftist/progressive/democratic.

2. I don't own an SUV nor have I ever owned one.

However; threads like this one scare me. Many posters on this thread are supposed freedom-loving folks but they are condemning SUVs and SUV owners. I'm quite sure many would favor legislation or regulations that would restrict the ability of people to purchase SUVs in one way or another. Many posters here cast doubts on how many SUV owners really "need" their SUVs.

I have to say that much of the anti-SUV crowd seems to me to be nothing more than a bunch of neo-Puritans whose main issue with SUVs is that their owners enjoy them. This whole argument is reminiscent of the old saw that the Puritans banned bear-baiting not because it was cruel to the bear but because it gave pleasure to the spectators.

What ever happened to the idea that we could each live our own life? Maybe I need to start a campaign to ban siding on houses because I don't like the esthetic effect it has. After all how many people really need siding? Wouldn't brick or stucco work just as well? After all, most siding today is manufactured from petroleum products.

It's things like this that cause small-l libertarians to fear Democrats. (Granted other things make us fear the Republicans.) However; I don't understand why the Democratic Party caters to the would-be meddling school-marms on issues like this one.

[SemperEadem]

48. No monarchy!!!

I believe most people are against SUV's, especially as they are no where near being fuel-efficient, because they keep our necks in the yoke to King OPEC. Americans willingly bow and submit to King OPEC, our liege-lord, everytime we ante up $2.15/gallon at the pump.

If our country was able (or inclined) to bring to market an energy source that would release us from the oil-stranglehold of King OPEC, then SUV's would be no problem...

I, personally, would rather not have any reason to be any more beholden to King OPEC than we already have to be. We have no anointed kings in this country for a reason.

[sangha]

57. Consumerism masking as libertarianism

It's a sad commentary on the state of the nation when the ability to drive an SUV is equated with liberty

[FlaGranny]

33. Bumper sticker on an SUV

The day before yesterday, an SUV that I was behind had a bumper sticker that went something like: "I'm warming the globe." Some small print under that that was too small for me to see.

[Greyskye]

38. Try walking a mile in someone else's shoes...

...before making blanket accusations and generalizations about SUV owners. There a quite a few legitimate reasons for owning one.

I have a '96 Isuzu Rodeo, which was bought expressly for reasons involving my hobbies and lifestyle. It is perfect for what it was bought for:

1) Hauling musical instruments and PA gear (as well as band members) to and from gigs - a good portion of which occurred in the winter and with snow on the ground. Also provides at least a semi-secure place to keep equipment locked up when the venue couldn't.

2) Used to haul gear to Renaissance Faires and SCA (Society for Creative Anachronism) events. Including, but not limited to: 30'x15' canvas pavilion, with wood and hemp rope supporting structures. Armor. Acoustic musical instruments. Rope bed (broken down). Firepit. Food, miscellaneous camping supplies.

3) Wife, kid, and gear for music festivals/camping trips - often towing a pop-up trailer. Just got back from a week long music festival earlier this week as a matter of fact.

We use the Honda Civic instead of G'Twuk (that's the Rodeo - B5 fans may grok the name...) whenever possible. And I plan on replacing it with a Hybrid SUV as soon as they become available. The Civic is slated to be traded in on possibly a Prius Hybrid in the near future as well.

So for those of you above who "frown at" or "despise" all SUV's, please give it a rest. Hummers and Expeditions? I think that they are ridiculous and wasteful, and I fully agree with the license plate of the brand new bright yellow Hummer in the work parking lot: "IM SHALO". But then again, so are the people who condemn others so easily.

[pstokely]

39. the Rodeo is no Excursion or Suburban

nt

[Greyskye]

40. Tell that....

... to people like the poster above, who wrote: "I F***ING DESPISE SUVs They are a SYMBOL OF AMERICAN ARROGANCE. Sickening."

I don't see any qualifiers there on which SUV's he despised.

[Tigermoose]

45. So you haven't contributed to the increase in Gas prices?

I mean, really, like I could give a shit about your SUV needs.

Your assuming things about me you know nothing about. I said "frown," for a reason. It's not something I get worked up over beyond a small frown when I consider the negatives that SUVs have caused, but I'm also not going to say or regulate what you can or cannot drive. I simply made an observation that SUVs are causing an increase in gas prices, and I guess if you can't deal with that then possibly you need to examine why you are over-reacting so much to my little post. Admittedly, others have tended to over-react, but respond to their messages, and not mine.

[Greyskye]

53. Who knows?

Have I contributed to the escallating gas prices? Who knows? As you stated initially, it's a simplistic proposition at best. Is this an absolute question, or a relative question? If it's relative, than compared to whom? You? I don't know. That sort of thing is pretty difficult to compare without knowing commute distance, MPG delta, etc. Do I make up for my slothfull wastefullness when I ride my motorcyle instead? How about when I tele-commute?

Does it make my day a little 'less nice' when I get "frowned at" for no discernable reason? How about having a fist shaken at me? How about being cursed at? How about having my rig keyed? Where do you draw the line? At least you state that you don't advocate banning them. (And to answer my own question, yeah, any of the above have a tendancy to make my day a little 'less nice' - I'm a sensitive guy. :evilgrin:)

I mean, really, I could give a sh%t about your singling this post out to rant on as well. I responded to the initial post so that my response would end up at the bottom of the stack. And it was made as a rebuttal to those posters who stated that there is no good reason for an SUV. Deal with it. What's so hard to understand about that?

And "over-reacting" to your post? Please, don't give yourself quite so much credit. It's a slow work day here between projects, and that post had been simmering in my brain for quite a while because of similar threads in the past. If you don't want people responding to your posts, than perhaps you shouldn't make them. Maybe you're assuming a little too much about me as well...

Peace. :hippie:

[Superfly]

51. You shouldn't have to justify

why you drive an SUV...

Them: "Nobody needs an Excursion"

Me: "Nobody needs to tell me what I can and cannot drive."

I have a Jeep Cherokee right now and am buying a Tahoe in about 2 months. I have my own personal needs for driving it and am looking forward to a larger car.

B

[Hanuman]

42. Yep- many reasons to frown on SUV's

But frowning and banning are two separate issues. Let's do the former and not the latter.

[Tigermoose]

46. Exactly.

That's why i said "frown."

[DagmarK]

43. the price for gas in the US is sooooo much lower than other countries.....

I was paying 75 cents a gallon in the 70s.......when the energy crisis (OPEC) hit.....it went to, EGAD, 99 cents! And then even up over a buck a gallon.

So, for 20 years.......TWENTY YEARS, the price of gas stayed right around $1.00-$1.30 until Bush took the WH. Since the fraudulent Cheney-concocted energy crisis of 2000/2001......we have seen the highest prices ever. $1.80 is the highest I have seen (the cheap gas) in Oregon. In Calif, it hovers above $2.00 a gallon.

The rest of the WORLD (europe, asia) has been paying infinitely more than we have been paying for more than a decade. $2.50, $3.00...maybe more.

So......I postulate that the energy companies work to keep the price of gas DOWN (with spikes at key times to bring in extra cash) just so we will use A LOT OF IT......to keep our dependence on it.

It's a two way street for sure.......BUT GAS IN THE US IS NOT EXPENSIVE. My jaw drops when I hear people talk about "oooooooo, the chevron is charging $1.22 a gallon.....I am going to drive 3 miles out of my way to get gas at $1.18 at the Texaco on Main. There's a price war going on and I am taking advantage of it! Yes sirree!"

WTF? 10 gallon tank, filled up......that would reap them a 40 cent savings!!!!!!!!!!!!

Meanwhile, the price of the bread I love was .59 in the 70s. Today it is $3.59. No one is bitching about THAT!!!!!!! A loaf of bread costs the price of a person having to work an hour at minimum wage pretty much (less taxes). We need the bread; we don't need to drive as much as we do.

[SemperEadem]

47. my bumpersticker on my little car says:

yes, that SUV does make your butt look big..

[whoYaCallinAlib]

50. I love my SUV.

It's called "freedom of choice". Don't judge me because of what I drive. That would be very republican if you did.

[sangha]

59. Whatever happened to personal responsibility

I guess it became "Don't judge me"

[Aaron]

63. It'd be interesting if price tags had social cost as well as the monetary

cost. I wonder what people would buy - my guess is the same things they do now.

[ProudGerman]

56. Can't a person get worked up and vent a little?

People are making posts on DU, not writing their congressmen. (I'm sure their are those who are writing their congressmen, but I saw no mention of doing so on this thread, must have missed it)

Right now, Americans are dying so oil companies can grab more oil. Thousands of Iraqi's are already dead because someone is stealing their oil. In light of this, it is perfectly understandable that someone would get pissed off when they see Mr. StuffedSuit on his way to the office in a H2, or Mrs.GotNothingBetterToDo is running around town in a Tahoe....with no one else in the damn "rig". I can relate to those who go off on a rant against road hog drivers who wax eloquently how safe they are in their tank, all the while neglecting the fact that if they rear end me, or side swipe me in my Probe I'm as good as dead (at the very least, my car is toast). I can really relate to that because I see way too many people who drive their glorified, jacked up station wagons like they are sports cars.

[Bake]

58. I probably contribute to the rise in gas prices

when I drive the Supra at 150 mph. It generally gets pretty good mileage, but at 150, I gotta figure it's going fast (the gas, that is). But I'm not contributing to gas prices NEARLY as much as the gouging motherfuckers at Chevron, Exxon, BP, etc., or nearly as much as the OPEC ministers. Do I NEED to drive fast? No. But it sure is fun, and I don't do it all that often or when there's anything else around on the interstate.

I had a Chevy Blazer back when I used to play music professionally, and it was perfect for hauling instruments and PA equipment. I'd hate to try to do that in a CRX.

And I'll drive whatever the hell I want to and can afford, thank you very much. This is a prime example of why a lot of the "center" despises liberals: because some of us like to get all holier than thou about deciding what other people NEED. If you don't like Excursions or Hummers, don't buy one. Do I think the lady up the street looks ridiculous going to Kroger in her Hummer? Of course I do. Would I buy one? Not in this lifetime.

Bake

[RasWolff]

61. I have a 02 'yota Highlander...

...but I use the premium grade gas 'cause it
has less particulate and a higher octane which
translates to 10-15% better gas milage.

I also use gas treatments and keep my tires properly inflated
and I drive 65...well, er...maybe 70 mph to help enhance mileage.

All this translates to:

If your gonna own an SUV you got to be responsible with it! :)

[sirshack]

60. But do they increase demand...

on such a wide scale that increase in price is palpable? I doubt it....

[Sirius_on]

62. Check out my ride

I LOOOOOVE IT!!!


http://ImageEvent.com/jonger1150/2001explorer

[moondust]

65. Same goes for plantation-sized homes

that guzzle big resources driving up prices for everybody including the thrifty who live comfortably in modest-sized homes. Everybody is forced to pay for the gluttony of the few.

[Fescue4u]

66. I own a big SUV.

And I don't make an excuse for it.

Thats the beauty of being an American...you don't need a reason.

Of course Freepers want to take it away. :(