I was very impressed by Clark last night

[LittleDannySlowhorse]

Dean is still my number one choice, but after last night's debate and the previous one, I am warming up to Clark quite a bit. He has a few positions that I don't agree with, but I think in the larger context of things, they're not really all that important. He seems to truly give a shit. He never seemed dispassionate before, but I think in the months since he announced he was running he must have gotten more comfortable with being in front of the cameras or something, as he now projects a more emotional quality that I didn't perceive quite so much when he was first coming out of the gate.

Just my two cents.

[quispquake]

1. I completely agree...

I also was rather blown away by Clark. I'm still not 100% sure of him with domestic issues, but his true understanding of the US relationship in the world around us was solid.

I have to say, I've been bouncing between Dean & Kucinich...but I'd be just as thrilled to see Clark in there...and I like Kerry & Sharpton too! A great bunch of candidates this time...

As an aside, I loved the commercial Kerry put on right before the debate...nailed Bush but good!!

[LittleDannySlowhorse]

5. I'm not 100% on any candidate yet myself

...except that I am 100% sure that I like Lieberman the least. As someone said yesterday, last night was Holy Joe's best debate performance yet. Otherwise, I think everyone in the field is bringing something to the table, but Clark's grasp of foreign policy and military issues is about as solid as anybody could ask for, and his understanding of what it's going to take to rehabilitate the US' image around the world was pretty impressive too.

The jury is still out for me on Kerry --- he obviously has tons of experience and knowledge under his belt, I don't think anybody without a conflict of interest could dispute that. But he just leaves me kind of cold, I guess, and I don't feel like he's made a persuasive case for himself yet. Hopefully the recent staff changes in his campaign will help him articulate his agenda a little better.

EDITED FOR SPELLING!

[KittyWampus]

7. Clark Is Strong On Domestic Policy

Unfortunately the media whores aren't allowing him any time to discuss it.

They almost always focus on Foreign Policy or the smears when they have him in an interview.

When they DO ask about Domestic stuff they let him get out about 3 words and then say "please be more specific".

At one point Lou Dobbs wouldn't let Clark answer until Clark started throwing out numbers... which would make most viewers eyes glaze over.

Clark has won on Foreign Policy. He must now figure a way to get his message on Domestic Issues heard.

The whores will do their best to make him seem inept in this area. And he KNOWS ECONOMICS and has great positions.

He will lead us into retooling our Economy for Green Technology.

[CWebster]

9. On farming IC jobs overseas?

Or pandering to the corporate agenda?

http://www.usatoday.com/news/politicselections/nation/2003-11-19-clark-dean_x.htm

[KittyWampus]

10. Clark Recognized Those Jobs Have ALREADY LEFT

And has plans to create new ones while using tax code to prevent them from going offshore.

NOWHERES did he say he would farm any jobs overseas.

The jobs that have ALREADY LEFT are not Clark's doing.
The lack of new jobs that haven't been created is not Clark's doing.

Please point out where any of the other candidates have a plan to make those jobs already gone magically reappear on American soil.

[LittleDannySlowhorse]

11. I didn't interpret it that way

Clark seemed to me to be saying that we need to expand the job pool in the United States by creating new technologies and therefore new jobs to address those new market realities. I felt like he said it a little clumsily though, and I can see how it would be interpreted differently.

[CWebster]

24. Read the link

and think.

[Renew Deal]

12. What's the old saying?

If a tree falls in the woods...

[stopbush]

2. I agree

Clark came off the best last night, displaying passion and taking bush on, no question. Dean was a bit subdued because Kerry & Gephardt kept bashing him, though Dean kept his cool and didn't take the bait.

The most significant thing I took away from last night was the fact that Clark seems to be gaining confidence while Dean still looks very uncomfortable in these debate situations. Dean seems the least spontaneous of the candidates. That might be because he's the one taking the hits within his own party, but if he can't project a less-stiff persona, it will hurt him down the road.

On edit: BTW - Braun was the most poised I've ever seen her, Kucinich was excellent and had the most relaxed command of the stage, Edwards was a mixed bag, Kerry is hurting himself by attacking Dean rather than projecting himself, and Sharpton seemed to be a bit side-lined. Gephardt has finally shown some passion, but his bush-enabling record conflicts with his rhetoric.

My $.02.

[dennis4868]

3. I agree....

I think Clark has the best chance of beating Captain AWOL next November (if all the votes are counted of course).

Watching the debate last night Clark looked the most presidential of all the Dem candidates on the stage. He has a very good understanding of all the issues and was really the only one who came with some specifics how to create jobs in this country. I am sure that whoever does end up winning the Dem nomination for president he will be taken apart by the Bush media machine (MSGOP, FOX, etc.)They will do their best to assasinate the character of the dem nominee, even if they have to make up things about them (Al Gore 2000 Election).....and of course the media will ignore Bush's past and his criminal activities during the last 3 years in the White House.

[democratreformed]

4. I also thought

that Dennis Kucinich showed the best understanding of race issues I have seen yet.

I know that this thread is about Clark, so I'll say this: I have ALWAYS been impressed by him. I was very happy to see him finally show what some of us who urged him to run always knew he had.

[Renew Deal]

6. Kucinich had another good night.

He is a better politician than Dean. He seems like he knows the domestic issues better than almost anyone up there.

[Donna Zen]

15. Heart and Head

Kucinich has them working together and be damned the personality contest.

Wesley? Well_what can one say? The reason he can talk about foreign policy is because he is considered among the world's experts in the field. At the Aspen conference of liberal brainiacs, Clark was part of a panel discussion with other deep thinkers. It is reported that he "ate their lunch." With much of the job of president centering on foreign policy, not to say the focus of this election, we couldn't ask for more.

Clark's DU meme has come to be "yeah, but what about domestic issues?" The man is brilliant. His positions are liberal. He may have been in the military, but that is not a cultural-social-domestic vacuum. He gets it, and the policies are solid and often a reflection of his ability to think outside the box.

Where the head and heart come together for Clark is a place so dear to my own sense of this country's worth that it makes me shudder, is his regard for the promises of our Constitution. He fears we are losing our democracy. On Bill Maher and other occassions since then, he has said that while the economy and the war are important issues, the most important issue is what kind of a country we want to live in. He has said that there have been other democracies before ours and they have disappeared. He fears we will lose ours if we continue down this rightwing path. You know in your head and heart, just as I do, that he is right.

[KittyWampus]

18. In The Next Month Clark Has To Get His Domestic Agenda Out

Don't know how but he needs to.

It is very Liberal and hopefully he'll accentuate the Green Tech part.

It would be a great way to paint The GOP and Petroleum Industry as Obstructionist.

We are falling behind Europe.

Even China has higher gas mileage standards :eyes:

[Kathleen04]

27. Next ad...

I think that Clark's next television ad should focus on his domestic policies. His 1st ad was 75% about his military career and had something about domestic policy tacked on at the end, but no specifics. Just knowing he is a 4-star general makes those certain leadership qualities a given, so I think his next ad should focus 100% on domestic policy. I think he's starting to get type-cast, so he'll have to break out of that quickly.

[LittleDannySlowhorse]

8. Well I always thought that his post mortems

were completely premature. People were declaring his candidacy dead on arrival, which as we all know is completely ridiculous. While I wasn't won over by him immediately myself, I certainly felt like he needed to be given a chance to show what he would really be like in campaign mode. I think he gave us a good whiff of it last night, and I'm sure he'll get better from here.

[_NorCal_D_]

14. Yes, Kucinich did well.

Especially when it came to the somewhat out of place question regarding Sen. Miller.

[LittleDannySlowhorse]

17. When that came up

I thought Kucinich was going to have a fucking aneurysm right there and then. I thought he answered really well, but you could plainly see EXACTLY what he thinks of Miller.

[_NorCal_D_]

13. Thank you

for your objectivity! B-)

[LittleDannySlowhorse]

16. No problem

I genuinely like the guy and would be perfectly happy to vote for him. Obviously my preference is still for a Dean/Clark ticket, but I'm still keeping my eyes and my mind open during the next few weeks.

Remaining rational and objective in the lead-up to the primaries is essential, so I've been trying very hard to keep my perspective on all the candidates. I primary day I really want to feel like I'm pulling the lever as the result of a lot of homework.

[Kathleen04]

19. I was also impressed..

with Clark in the debate. He was really able to articulate that Bush hasn't made us safer (we need to go after terrorists, not states) and that we need a new plan in Iraq. All of the Democrats need to emphasize that Bush hasn't been tough on terror..it's the one major thing he has going into this election and it's flat-out false.

I also think Dean did well, but I agree with those of you who said he was subdued as a result of the Kerry/Gephardt attacks.

John Edwards did well last night also.

I'd like to see these 3 in their own debate.

[eissa]

20. I'm married to Dean,

but I'm flirting with Clark! He really stole the show last night; very impressive performance. I'm not totally sold on him yet; I feel he is the most qualified when it comes to matters foreign/military, but lack of domestic experience is still in question. He would make an EXCELLENT VP choice.

My .02 cents on the others:

Gephardt: I thought he did well, even with the attacks on Dean. Yeah, he kept digging on Dean, but it wasn't as shrill as Kerry. Speaking of Kerry......

Kerry: Marsha, Marsha, Marsha!

Dean: Yes, he was stiff. I think he knows that every little word he utters will be picked apart due to his front-runner status. Having said that, I disagree that the attacks are taking a toll on him; if anything I really think he's beginning to embrace them as it just shines a spotlight on him and gives him the opportunity to talk about his position more.

Sharpton: I love listening to him! I think he really energizes these debates.

Braun: She articulates her position so well. I really agree with her stance on many of the issues (especially Iraq). She needs a position in the new democratic cabinet next year.

Kucinich: I like the pictures of the soliders he brought out. His reply to the Zell question was too tempered; I would loved to have seen him go off on that SOB.

Edwards: Heh.

[_NorCal_D_]

21. LOL

Kerry: Marsha, Marsha, Marsha! B-) :bounce:

[LittleDannySlowhorse]

22. Tee hee

I'm married to Dean too, but it's an open marriage so we go to a lot of swing parties.

Gephardt is somewhere in the lower tiers for me, but he got off the best line of the entire debate last night, when he said Bush "does not work well with others." I laughed out loud when he said that.

When they asked Kucinich about Miller I could see that he was just SEETHING with rage. He kept a lid on it, but there's no mistaking the fact that he has a few problems with the guy, and rightly so.

[ChangeMan]

23. Clark Is The Only One Who ACTS Presidential

I am a Dean supporter but I must say that Wes is the only candidate who acts presidential.

The rest of them, Dean included, just seem to stand there and flounder through their remarks/responses.

The canned cliches are really getting to me. Every debate has them saying the same thing: Kerry - Gov Dean said this or that, Mosely-Brown - Lets take the men only sign off the WH, Edwards - I'm just a poor boy from the south, Dean - This is the way it is in Vermont, Kucinich - I'll cancel NAFTA and WTO, Gephart - I stood toe to toe against this resident, Sharpton - Lets register more voters, Liberman - mumble, mumble.

The time has come for the serious candidates to start acting presidential!

The time has come to narrow the field!

[eissa]

25. Regarding the canned cliches

I know it's annoying, but I think we have to keep in mind that it is only annoying to those of us who have been following this race so closely, so early. Joe and Jane Public are for the most part unaware of who the candidates really are at this point. That's why some of these polls showing any democrat polling so close or exceeding shrub give me such hope; if we're running this close now when most of the public is largely uninformed, imagine what will happen when we REALLY give it to shrub next year!

[ElementaryPenguin]

26. Dean rocks - and Clark kicks major ass!! We've got TWO superstars!

And we'll need them!! Let us not sabotage either one!

[bain_sidhe]

28. Yeah, for me the race is between those two

I was leaning Kerry, but have been disappointed in him for a while, and last night sealed it for me.

I like Dean's energy, and the passion of his supporters... I think energy and passion will be important if we're going to take the Presidency next year. I am concerned about some of the uses to which that passion is put on this board, and the image of cultishness that some of his supporters project. Leads me to wonder that if the nominee turns out to be somebody else, will they support that nominee? And if the nominee is Dean, will they have alienated supporters of the candidates Dean defeats?

I like Clark's projection of calm competence, his clear grasp and ability in the foreign policy and military arena... no matter what, Bush will want to make this campaign about "we're at war!" and Clark can eat his lunch on that subject... none of the others can. I also like his appearance of being willing to take the fight to the *real* enemy - Bush and the media, rather than being "distracted" by the primary opponents. (I know primary opponents aren't really a "distraction" - this process is important, and I think he knows that too. What I'm talking about is his appearance of focusing on the "real enemy.") I think he also will make the most effective (and persuasive) contrast to Bush in the general election.

So, to put it in the terms that have become common in recent threads I'm dating both of them, but Clark seems to be a better date, right now. Still willing to be persuaded, but feeling a definite preference.

[Spazito]

29. I was looking on the CSPAN site and, after doing a search on..

"Wesley Clark", found this on a page of archives of his appearances:

Hearing on U.S. Policy in Iraq
By the Senate Armed Services Committee. Chair: Sen. Carl Levin (D-MI) Wits: Retired Army Gen. John Shalikashvili, former Chairman, Joint Chiefs of Staff; Retired Gen. Wesley Clark, former supreme allied commander, Europe; Retired Gen. Joseph Hoar, former commander in chief, U.S. Central Command; Retired Lt. Gen. Thomas McInerney, former assistant vice chief of staff, U.S. Air Force.

This is from Sept. 23, 2002

Here is the link to the page:

http://www.cspan.org/search/basic.asp?ResultStart=11&ResultCount=10&BasicQueryText=wesley+clark&image1.x=0&image1.y=0&

Go to the second page and it is 2nd from the bottom.

This is a 3 hour video but WELL worth listening to as it took place BEFORE the invasion of Iraq. The generals appearing were very prescient on what would be the aftermath if the US went in alone, etc. It proves that Clark has been VERY consistant in his perspective on Iraq, etc.

[tinrobot]

30. That software comment really irked me...

But other than that, Clark really was on fire last night. He looked like he could take dawn every last Repug in Washington with his bare hands... very presidential. I also like the way he dealt with Chris Matthews after the debate. His CNN pundit experience has taught him well in dealing with these types. He knows how to keep talking until the other guy shuts up.

Dean looked less sure of himself than in the past. If the debate had been against Shrub I would have worried. These Dems need to focus on the real target rather than bicker amongst themselves.

I'm still Dean-centric, but Clark is swaying me...

[TacticalPeek]

31. Welcome to DU, tinrobot!

Yea, the software thing was irksome, but a lot of development has become somewhat assembly-line. (I say, coding on one screen and posting on another :) .)

:toast:

[Scott Lee]

32. Yep, Clark was great. Good news, because he's my no. 2

Whether it's Dean or Clark that performs well at the debates, we all come out winners.

[RandomUser]

33. He's shown quite a bit of passion

in the 60 Minutes II and Fox attack interview.

He had tears in his eyes (literally) while talking about babies being killed in the genocide. And he forcefully took command of the interview when they tried to twist his words on Fox, even giving a charming smile after tearing Asnan up.

[mike from ri]

34. Thanks for recognizing Clark's performance

as a clark supporter who, nonehteless, respects the other candidates, I'm glad that you recognized clarks ability to speak with authority on bush's hijacking of the war on terrorism, an ability that will serve him well should he be the nominee.

[LittleDannySlowhorse]

35. Well, we ARE supposed to be objective here

Clark is a great candidate, and I'm sure that over the next few weeks he'll become quite formidable. The guy is a Rhodes scholar, for fuck's sake! And any candidate who enrages the Reublicans the way he does is OK in my book.