Question on Black Box Voting?

[Shakeydave]

Contacted my Supervisor of elections and got the following response. Anybody know about ES&S iVotronic?

David,

Thank you for your inquiry.

The Diebold (Global) Touchscreen system is not presently certified in the State of Florida.

Sarasota County uses the Elections System & Software iVotronic touchscreen system. It is Certified for use by the Division of Elections/Department of State. Only State certified election systems can be use for elections. You may be interested in contacting the Division of Elections regarding the extensive certification procedures they utilize.

The ES&S iVotronic touchscreens use a proprietary operation system and must go through a complete public logic and accuracy test prior to each election and at specified steps through the election process.

The security of our election system is also maintained within a secured and alarmed facility. There is no access available for hacking of the system as it remains in a standalone environment. All design and reporting is accomplished under dual control.

It is also a federal felony to tamper with election equipment.

Other specific questions regarding the Diebold system may be directed to the Division of Elections as they would have more details on the product.

Thanks again for the excellent question.

[JanMichael]

1. Let's keep this kicked for the techie types.

:kick:

[DEMActivist]

2. I'm going to let Bev answer the specifics...but...

Don't forget the history here:

Bob and Todd Urosevich owned I-Mark Systems.

Bob and Todd had a fight and split up, each taking the I-Mark software with them.

Bob started Global Election Systems and Todd started ES&S.

ES&S is the company Sen. Hagel owns a controlling interest in.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

4. Repeat:

ES&S is the company Sen. Hagel owns a controlling interest in.


Note: I believe Hagel had to divest himself. Still....

[DrBB]

11. I don't believe he divested

I'd check that. I believe he resigned a board position or some such, but IIRC he still owns a chunk of the company.

[BevHarris]

16. Pesky little details

Bob and Todd Urosevich founded ES&S under the name "Data Mark Systems"

In November 1993 Bob Urosevich, who was at that time CEO, and by that time it was called American Information Systems, left, and Chuck Hagel, who had been Chairman, took his place as CEO while remaining as chairman. Hagel also owned stock, through a holding company called AIS Investors Inc. Don't know anything about Bob and Todd having a fight, sorry.

Around 1996, Bob Urosevich launched a new voting machine company, calling it "I-Mark Systems" and it specialized in touch screen voting machines.

There was an outfit in McKinney Texas and there was an outfit in Vancouver Canada, and they turned into one entity. As I understand it, the Texas company bought the Canadian company. Then, the Texas company, called Global Election Systems, bought I-Mark Systems, and Bob Urosevich moved to McKinney Texas, and by and by he became the CEO of Global Election Systems, which lost money hand over fist.

Then, in 2001, Diebold forked over a big loan to Global Election Systems, who then sold itself to Diebold for a tiny amount, having been devalued because anyone else who would buy it would have to come up with the additional cash to pay off the loan. This paragraph I am repeating from what someone told me, and I did not verify it, so take it with appropriate grain of salt. In Jan. 2002 Diebold bought Global Election Systems and christened it Diebold Election Systems.

Meanwhile, back in Omaha...In June 1994 William F Welsh took over as CEO of American Information Systems from Chuck Hagel. Hagel remained as Chairman. March 15, 1995 Hagel resigned from AIS and March 31, 1995 he announced he was running for a seat in the U.S. Senate. No one thought he'd win the primary, but he did, and news reports indicated his victory was amazing. "Will lightning strike twice for Hagel?" Business Week asked, not daring to think he could score another upset over a popular incumbent.

Of course, lightning struck twice, and Hagel won Nebraska with his machines counting his votes, winning every district and every demographic, according to one Nebraska paper. The Washington Post crowned it the upset of the year. Hagel never disclosed that he'd owned the voting machine company, describing himself as a banker and even mentioning his position with the American Red Cross, but omitting the fact that he'd run the company that counted his votes.

He says he sold shares of AIS Investors Inc. "before that" (before what?), but never did he disclose that he owned any such shares, nor that he ever sold or transferred them. Magically he then owned shared of The McCarthy Group, variously listed as 35% owner and controlling owner of American Information Systems, which was renamed ES&S in 1997. Hagel never owned controlling interest, to my knowledge. On his disclosure documents he lists an investment of from $1 to 5 million in The McCarthy Group, and avoids required disclosure of its ownership of ES&S by calling it an "excepted investment fund," which it is not.

Todd Urosevich is still a Vice President for ES&S.

History lesson over.

Bev

[Eloriel]

18. Great info

:kick:

Eloriel

[Shakeydave]

3. Kick!

:kick:

[arcane1]

5. "complete public logic and accuracy test", I'd like to see that....

not to mention I would like to see how they tabulate all the votes frmo all the machines in this standalone environment...?


kick

[gristy]

6. Your SOE is full of it

He makes it sound like he's securing a bank.

:wtf:

WTF is "dual control"?

WTF is a "standalone environment"? How do you get the software onto the system? By mental telpathy?

The same problems of touchscreen systems (such as Diebold) that count the vote exist in ES&S. I guarantee it.

Let the touchscreen system generate a paper ballot. Voter verifies ballot. Put the ballot in a ballot box (or through an optical scanner). You're done.

[PATRICK]

7. he treated you like a dummy

So he accepts that Diebold is crap or that it is totally irrelevant but the ALL Wise and Just Florida elections bureau certified a company with a different name?

Respond asking to talk to someone who know what they are talking about and not standard buraeucratize. "against federal law to tamper..." Well, that was condescending, wasn't it? How could any nut think to tamper with HIS turf? I don't think this guy is capable of getting the picture until some Authority spells it out in thick crayon.

Move higher up the food chain, preferably to someone who needs your vote and can sweat.

Publish his responses in the local paper.

[Shakeydave]

8. I recognized his response....................

as that of a line-toeing bureaucrat! I've been surrounded by them for 18 years. My initial request was directed to the SOE, this person was a hammerhead staff member. My next step after my response to this e-mail will be to Katherine Harris my Congressional Rep. Can't wait to see that response!

[dmr]

15. Yea, I'd like to see that response too

better put your boots on when you get it!

[gristy]

9. "Publish his responses in the local paper."

Excellent idea. Take notes and publish!

:bounce:

[Shakeydave]

10. My final kick of the evening!

:kick:

[RedEagle]

12. Who Knows?

Who knows what's in those machines?

The Diebold site was open to anyone.

[DagmarK]

13. Did they miss the part about REMOTE ACCESS???

"There is no access available for hacking of the system as it remains in a standalone environment."

And since when did a federal law ever stop someone from committing a crime? We wouldn't have any crime if that were the case.

[Eloriel]

14. Another kick

:kick:

Eloriel

[Shakeydave]

17. A "Good Morning" Kick!

:kick: