Tucker Carlson breaks Feith memo...

[grasswire]

...on mainstream television.

Touting it as gospel truth, as reported in National Journal.

Isn't that a piece of crap?

[karlschneider]

1. It didn't get much of a reaction and it hasn't made into much other media,

I doubt very many people other than freepers and similar braindead morans will pay that much attention...

[MidwestTransplant]

2. Let's see

even the DOD has discredited it. Guess the admin. must not want the people to know of the link. Yeah, that's it.

[blm]

3. No. They are getting it out there to have it as a reference point.

When reporters or consumers go to check out facts they are hit with conflicting reports. The GOP has always planted stories to boost their positions. People will call Cspan and SWEAR that Saddam and Bin Laden were PROVEN to be in cahoots.

[Ksec]

4. most of it is from sources

thats not good

[Kolesar]

5. What is the Feith memo?

PNAC creep Douglas Feith, I assume...

[Cocoa]

13. Saddam link to Mohammed Atta

I guess the number of people that believe Saddam is behind Sept 11 is slipping.

[bigtree]

15. Background

Some of Chalabi's influential friends in the White House include, twenty-year friend Richard Perle and Douglas Feith.
Douglas J. Feith, Under Secretary of Defense for Policy and Director of Iraq reconstruction is one of Chalabi's main supporters in the Pentagon. He used Chalabi's web of misinformation about Iraqi WMD's to develop a rationale for war against Saddam; including the ‘intelligence’ that Saddam was conspiring with bin Laden.

Feith is known for a 1996 paper he authored and presented to President Clinton advocating the overthrow of Saddam Hussein. The letter was also signed by Richard Perle, Donald Rumsfeld, Paul Wolfowitz, and others.
In the letter they argued that, "In the present climate in Washington, some may misunderstand and misinterpret strong American action against Iraq as having ulterior political motives. We believe, on the contrary, that strong American action against Saddam is in the national interest, that it must be supported, and that it must succeed. "
Co-author Feith was one of about five members of the Bush administration who formed a separate “special plans office” in October 2001, whose purpose was to collect information from the CIA and the intelligence community to develop their own strategy for the war on terrorism. The group highlighted “interrelationships among terrorist organizations and state sponsors. They claimed strategic alliances between Al-Qaeda and Iraq, despite the argument that such an alliance would have to withstand deep ideological and religious differences.

[leetrisck]

6. Was funny - Carville put right in the trash heap

of history - slamming the Weekly Standard & Feith in the process.

[Swede]

28. Nobody does scorn better that James.

[HFishbine]

7. Okay, seriously

The Weekly Standard article looked pretty well documented. Now we can all call it bunk and express our suspicions, but can anybody provide a link or a source that debunks the Feith memo? I've seen posts here saying that the DOD has debunked all Feith's points already. Is there a source for that? Anything other than opinion?

[TacticalPeek]

8. Try this.

The Pentagon was quick to denounce the leak – and the Weekly Standard story – saying, "The classified information was not an analysis of the substantive issue of the relationship between Iraq and al Qaeda, and it drew no conclusions."

DU Thread

[Media_Lies_Daily]

9. This is straight from the DoD horse's mouth...

DoD Statement on News Reports of al-Qaida and Iraq Connections
<http://www.dod.mil/releases/2003/nr20031115-0642.html>

Excerpt:

"News reports that the Defense Department recently confirmed new information with respect to contacts between al-Qaida and Iraq in a letter to the Senate Intelligence Committee are inaccurate."

[HFishbine]

10. Thanks guys, but

To say that the DOD drew no conclusions is not the same as them saying that they refute Feith's memo.

If Im reading the DOD correctly, what they seem to be saying is Feith gave testimony to the Intelligence Committe that lead the committee to request reports from the DOD on which Feith relied. The DOD provided those reports, which were the product of the CIA, the NSA and the DIA. The DOD seems to be saying that they just turned over the documents Feith talked about, and got them from other agencies, but that the the information itself did not draw any conclusions. (Clearly Feith has.)


So, the DOD may have condemned the leaking of the memo, and they may be saying that the documents turned over to the Intelligence Committe were raw reports, not conclusive reports, but they are clearly not saying that the information is erroneous or refuting Feith's claims.

In short, I still don't see a debunking of Feith's information or his conclusions.

[jbm]

14. I went searching..

and found some info at this blog. http://www.calpundit.com/archives/002647.html

<snip>But given his track record, it's awfully hard to figure out why anyone takes Doug Feith seriously anymore. Presumably the Senate Intelligence Committee has also asked the CIA for its opinion on this, and perhaps Hayes can get a leaked copy of their memo too. If it supports Feith's laundry list of allegations, I'll start to take it — and Feith — a bit more seriously.

<snip>

[Fuzz]

16. I think it's like this.

When you are trying to make a case, you gather as much information from wherever you can. This information can be from reputable, or disreputable sources. A lot of it was probably coming from 'terrorists' in custody or people of questionable integrity looking to make deals or paid for the information.

Now, here's the important part, this information then needs to be confirmed. From what I can tell, this is mostly, if not completely, unconfirmed information. It was just a compilation of 'information' gained from Feith and his cronies who were extremely motivated to find whatever information they could to justify the invasion of Iraq no matter where the information came from.

That's my read on the situation anyway.

[Hoppin_Mad]

25. Entirely correct !

AFAIK, NONE of it is confirmed info.

This document has about as much credibility as Saddam's incubators, or the 9/11 jets being flown by remote control by the pentagon.

A laundry list of wild speculation.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

29. In short, I guess you missed the most important part of the DoD document..

...which is as follows:

"The items listed in the classified annex were either raw reports or products of the CIA, the NSA, or, in one case, the DIA. The provision of the classified annex to the Intelligence Committee was cleared by other agencies and done with the permission of the Intelligence Community. The selection of the documents was made by DOD to respond to the Committee’s question. The classified annex was not an analysis of the substantive issue of the relationship between Iraq and al Qaida, and it drew no conclusions."

Feith, in fact, based his misleading memo on the first part of the information contained above:

"The items listed in the classified annex were either raw reports or products of the CIA, the NSA, or, in one case, the DIA. The provision of the classified annex to the Intelligence Committee was cleared by other agencies and done with the permission of the Intelligence Community. The selection of the documents was made by DOD to respond to the Committee’s question."

What he failed to also report was the following observation:

"The classified annex was not an analysis of the substantive issue of the relationship between Iraq and al Qaida, and it drew no conclusions."

What does the phrase "it drew no conclusions" mean to you? Why did Feith choose to draw the conclusions that he did? Is it because his conclusions are representative of the opinions of the PNAC NeoCons of which he is a member in good standing? Why did the DoD immediately respond to Feith's comments with a memo of their own if it was not to refute what Feith stated in his memo?

If you still don't see this as a debunking of Feith's information or his conclusions, then I can no longer help you.

[jbm]

11. I'm kicking cause I have the same question as HFishbines..

This is a hot topic on another board I post at,and I'm wondering if anyone has anything beyond the DOD statement that will dispute the memo.

[alcuno]

17. Here's the problem. It's from the Office of Special Plans.

Along with Cheney, they took raw intelligence and then put in their own reports that had not gone through CIA or NSA. They are reports and some may only be gossip. Who knows.

There are over 2000 reports each year of UFO's. Does that mean that there are aliens on Earth? No, it just mean that there are 2000 reports. Remember, it was Chalabi's group, the Iraqi National Congress, who were feeding information (read reports) to anyone who would listen. Much of that has been debunked. They had specific reports of exactly where WMD's could be found only when the US military went there, they not only didn't find the WMD's, they didn't find the rooms that were described. They were just making up stuff and the Office of Special Plans, along with the VP, proved to be very eager listeners because it was what they wanted to hear.

"Iraq is trying to buy yellow cake from Niger." It's a report (read someone says it) and then gets investigated. Only Feith and Libby and Wolfowitz and Pearl and Cheney didn't like the results of the investigation so they kept talking about the "report." Of course there was a report, someone said it.

I could not have cared less if Saddam had WMD's, however, if he had had anything to do with 9/11, I would have said take him out. This is just their continued desperation to justify what they have done.

[Cush]

12. Carville could have done better

he should have said how the DoD discredited it, etc....

[HFishbine]

22. They didn't

At least by what's been made available here. The DOD simply said, "We turned over to the Intelligence Committee the documents Feith referred to when he testified. We've made no analysis of the data, in fact most of it comes from other agenencies."

That's what the DOD says. They didn't discredit a thing.

[Kolesar]

18. Joe Conason / Salon.com

http://salon.com/opinion/conason/2003/11/17/leaks/index.html

Nov. 17, 2003 | An "inaccurate" gusher from the neocon pipeline
Wading through constant leaks of classified material from the Bush administration, American intelligence officials must wonder whether the White House and the Pentagon can be trusted with anything more sensitive than a grocery list. First came the flaming of Valerie Plame last July; then the (possibly self-serving) Rumsfeld memo about the progress of the war on terror last month; and now, in the pages of the Weekly Standard, a sheaf of "top secret" documents concerning the relationship between Iraq and al-Qaida.

...edit for copyright reasons...

Evidently the letter's classified appendix was leaked to the Weekly Standard, which promptly published excerpts from it under the headline "Case Closed." That definitive tone resounds in the first paragraph: "Osama bin Laden and Saddam Hussein had an operational relationship from the early 1990s to 2003 that involved training in explosives and weapons of mass destruction, logistical support for terrorist attacks, al-Qaida training camps and safe haven in Iraq, and Iraqi financial support for al-Qaida -- perhaps even for <9/11 hijacker> Mohamed Atta -- according to a top secret U.S. government memorandum obtained by the Weekly Standard."

Read that opening sentence again, after perusing the article that follows, and it is obvious that even the quotations selected by writer Stephen Hayes fail to prove such sweeping assertions. Instead, what the quotes suggest is that while al-Qaida and Iraqi intelligence may have had contacts dating back to the early '90s, the ties between Saddam's state apparatus and the bin Laden group were sporadic and murky. And there is no new evidence linking Iraq to the 9/11 attacks, as the president recently acknowledged.
...edit...

[UTUSN]

19. Am Kicking This Thread n/t

[HFishbine]

21. Bush says no

That's really the key, isn't it? It's not as if Feith has come forward with some information that is new to Bush. Yet Bush said recently that there was no connection between 9/11 and Iraq. That's good enough for me.

As to the strength of Feith's claims of an Iraq/Al Queda connection, other posters above make good points. The OoSP got themselves in trouble by tring to do their own analyis on raw intelligence. This is probably the raw intellegience they misread in the first place (and which, interestingly, The Weekly Standard is now going to choke on).

We all know for example that the Atta in Prague story, which the Weekly Standard embarrasingly repreats, has been debunked. My guess is that the rest of it has too, or at best remains unconfirmed. I'll keep an open mind, like Calpundit, but confirmation will have to come outside the DOD or the NSA and the "PNAC Standard" doesn't count either.

[UTUSN]

20. FEITH Breaks Wind on Tucker CARLSON? n/t

[leesa]

23. Wasn't there also a CIA denial the day after the right wing progandists

came out with it?

[UTUSN]

24. So Much for Tucker Being an "Independent" Winger n/t

[grasswire]

26. that's what I thought too

I remembered a thread the other day where a lot of DUers were defending Tucker as "not like the wingnuts."

[grasswire]

27. a poster over on atrios

extracted the kernels from the Feith memo:

1. Defector alleges that Sudanese strongman Hassan Al Turabi arranged a swap: Iraq would provide training and instructors if Al Qaeda would provide proscribed weapons. This was confirmed by a senior Iraqi intelligence officer, who said that Faruq Hijazi of Iraq Intelligence met Ayman al Zawahiri. Al Qaida traveled to Baghdad. Al Turabi is said to be "a leader of the Al-Qaeda-affiliated National Islamic front."

2. In 1993, Osama bin laden agreed not to carry forward any anti-Saddam activities. This is contained in U.S. court documents from the trial related to the bombing of the African embassies.

3. According to the FBI, in early 1995, Mahmdouh Mahmud Salim (a.k.a. Abu Hajer al-Iraqi) visited Iraq and had discussions with Iraqi intelligence. According to the CIA, he was bin Laden's best friend. He is now in a New York prison.

4. A source provided the dates on which bin Laden traveled to various cities and the names of who he met with. Multiple sources state that Hassan al-Turabi and Ayman al-Zawahiri were at the center of bin Laden's circle in the early 1990s.

5. A source stated that Osama bin Laden received explosives training from Iraqi expert Brigadier Salim al-Ahmed in Sept/Oct 1995 (at bin Laden's farm in Khartoum) and July 1996 with the Director of Iraq Intelligence Mani-abd-al-Rashi al-Tikriti. Osama bin Laden asked assistance of Intelligence Director al-Tikriti in making false passports, letterbombs and barometric pressire bombs. Al-Tikriti ordered explosives expert Salim Al-Ahmed to stay with bin Laden in Sudan. The same source said Osama bin Laden visited Doha, Qatar, staying with a member of the ruling family on Jan 17-19, 1996. He discussed bombing targets inside Saudi Arabia. Saudi Arabia's National Guard went on kingdom-wide alert on "learning" of this He returned to meet with Iraqi Intelligence officer Hijazi and Sudanese strongman al-Turabi. The bombing of the Khobar towers was on the anniversary of an attack on Iraqi Intelligence Headquarters.



6. A former senior Iraqi intelligence official said that in the late 1990s, Pakistan was contact point for Al Qaeda and Baghdad. But bin Laden visited Baghdad in January, 1998 and met Tariq Aziz. Another source said Ayman al-Zawahiri met with the Iraqi vice president on February 3rd, 1998 to arrange for camps headed by Abdul Aziz in Nasariya and in Iraqi Kurdistan.

7. "According to documents unearthed in April 2003 in the Iraqi Intelligence headquarters by journalists Mitch Potter and Inigo Gilmore" Iraqi intelligence wrote a memo detailing a coming meeting with a bin Laden representative in Baghdad. The references to bin Laden were whited out with Liquid Paper.

8. In 1998, bin Laden issued a fatwa on the plight of Iraq, stating that America has been occupying Islam's holiest places.

9. Immediately after America bombed Iraq in Operation Desert Fox (Dec 16-19, 1998), Iraqi intelligence officer Hijazi offered bin Laden safe haven in Iraq. CIA reporting stated that an Iraqi delegation met with bin laden in Afghanistan in late 1998, that bin Laden and al-Zawahiri met wit two Iraqi intelligence officers in December 1998 and that an Iraqi intelligence officer went to Afghanistan in late 1998 to meet with Al Qaeda and Taliban head Mullah Omar. Iraq intelligence officer Hijazi met with bin Laden in Afghanistan in 1999. The contacts were so extensive and well-known that Newsweek ran an article titled "Saddam + Bin laden?"

10. One Iraqi intelligence officer, Khalil Ibrahim Abdallah, "said that the last contact between the IIS and al Qaeda was in July 1999" Unnamed sources contradict that.

11. An Iraqi living in Malaysia, Ahmed Hikmat Shakir, "facilitated the arrival" of one of the 9/11 hijackers for an "operational meeting" in Kuala Lumpur in January 2000. Shakir worked at the airport. One of the men at the meeting was "Tawfiz al Atash, a top bin Laden lieutenant later identified as the mastermind of the October 12, 2000, attack on the USS Cole." The CIA says that "fragmentary evidence" links Iraq to the Cole bombing.

12. During a "custodial interview" , a senior al Qaeda operative Ibn al-Shaykh al-Libi said that he traveled to Iraq in 1998 to obtain poisons and gas training. In December 2000, two al-Qaeda operatives traveled to Iraq to obtain training in chemical and biological weapons. The CIA says this statement is consistent with reports that bin Laden requested such training from Saddam in 1998.

13. , Mohammed Atta met with intelligence official Ahmed Khalil Ibrahim Samir al Ani in Prague. Al Ani ordered Iraqi Intelligence to give Atta money. The CIA claims that two meetings occurred, but two are in question. "Five high-ranking members of the Czech government have publicly confirmed meetings between Atta and al Ani."

14. An October 2002 "report" said that Iraq and Al Qaeda reached an agreement whereby Iraq would provide safe haven. They obtained Syrian and Iraqi passports

15. As stated by Colin Powell, al Qaeda "associate" Abu Musab al Zarqawi had contacts with Iraqi Intelligence to obtain weapons and explosives, including surface-to-air missiles as well as a base in Iraq. A contact says that an Iraqi intelligence officer said that Iraqi Intelligence supplied weapons to Ansar al-Islam . "Pre-war intelligence" claims Iraqi intelligence gave Ansar al Islam $100,000.

http://atrios.blogspot.com/