How many Clark supporters used to be for Dean?

[saoirse]

That's my story, and I'm curious how many others are out there.

I'd have to say that Dean is my #2 choice, but he's become a much more distant second. In the last month or so Dean has been talking and acting disturbingly like a typical politician.

I used to be excited by the prospect of Dean as the nominee, but now I'd be really disappointed if that happened. I'd still vote for him of course, but I don't think he'd win.

I guess I just need to remind myself that it's still very, very early.

[Name removed]

1. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[slinkerwink]

2. yeah, start talking about Clark instead of Dean if he's your candidate...

:eyes:

[Name removed]

5. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

20. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[saoirse]

3. Whoa, dude

I think you ain't been getting enough of that little icon you use.

If you don't like it, don't reply. But there's no reason to insult me for trying to gauge opinion.

[Hep]

40. You aren't gauging opinion

You are asking for data.

No big deal, but it's important that you get it right.

Whether or not I used to support Dean and now support clark is a question of FACT, not opinion.

[drfemoe]

9. Clark guy: How many Clark supporters used to be for Dean?

I'm going to do a survey just to see who starts what how many times .. a scorecard. It'll take a little time to sort it out.

These are a few examples of a lot of what I see :

Clark guy:
Dean's signing of the civil unions bill as governor

Clark guy:
Anger is a gift, but to whom? (rnc tape of Dean)(which has been posted several times . even by me)

Kerry guy:
Dean supporters, I have a question for you...

Kerry guy:
Dean on CNN: None of them asked questions BEFORE they voted on IWR

Edwards guy:
Ire not enough, Edwards says (alluding to Dean)

.... continued
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=723998#724241

[Piperay]

10. Not me...

I was leaning slightly toward Edwards but as soon as Clark entered the race I was totally Clark. :-)

[Renew Deal]

4. There are many.

But questions like this are flame bait.

[saoirse]

6. Ain't that the truth!

[E_Zapata]

14. It's flame bait because???????????

because dean supporters just can't HANDLE losing a vote? Wow.......

if your candidate is the best for the job, he will win. If we who don't plan on voting for Dean are wrong......so what?

flame bait? You guys have gotta get thicker skin. How the HELL are you going to make it to Nov 2004 against the bush machine if dean wins the nom?

[NewYorkerfromMass]

29. Ha ha! We need to delete posts for being too "thin-skinned"

it's almost against the rules to be thin-skinned! Meanwhile, some Dean supporters seem intent on driving people further away from Dean.

[Hep]

41. Irony is alive and well

When the folks who constantly whine about Dean attacking their guy "while he was in the hospital!!!" complain about others having thin skin.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

48. Attack Kerry all you want

whenever you want and however you want because I'm going to keep coming at Dean too. I see the Iowa governor's now put Dean under scrutiny:

Dean Must Show Strength, Iowa Governor Says

[Hep]

49. I didn't attack Kerry at all

But thanks for further illustrating the double standard some of the Dean Haterz routinely apply here.

But yeah, show me where I attacked Kerry. Or admit you're wrong. Will you do either?

[Renew Deal]

50. Umm

I am a Clark supporter. I don't mind rightfully pissing of Deaniacs, but I felt like this was rubbing it in. Oh well

[GalleryGod]

7. After Clark's MTP Performace of 11/16/03: You Da' MAN,Wes!!!

Flawless! Mesmerizing! Not since Max Taylor or George Patton have you seen an Intellectual 4 Star shine so brightly!? Substance! Style! Grace Under Pressure! That's It and That's That!:yourock:

[Kahuna]

18. You were mesmerized too? I know that..

I was watching it the whole time with a big ol' grin on my face. A couple of times I shouted kudos at him and applauded. But I thought it was just me. :shrug:

[R Hickey]

8. Clark's my man

Dean is my second choice. But if GOP operatives arrange a plane-crash for Clark, I vote for Dean.

[tedoll78]

11. Here.

I am still a huge fan of Dean's, and would be more than happy to work my @ss off if Dean gets the nomination. The two candidates seem pretty close on the positions. Some have their doubts as to Clark's creds as a Democrat, but I'm very reassured by some of the comments that the Clintons have made about him. If more Zogby or Gallup polls come-out showing Clark statistically tied with Bush while other candidates lag-behind, I suspect more will convert to Clark.

[REP]

12. Not Switching, But Liking Clark More and More

Dean is still doing a better job of addressing *my* concerns, but I continue to be impressed by Clark. Unless he eats a kitten or something, I won't being saying anything against Clark.

[Renew Deal]

54. He has been accused

of eating Kittens and babies too. But, I agree with you.

[E_Zapata]

13. Well, sort of.......

I was into Dean in the spring and summer - but then he just started to really scare me. He seems to be just to the left of Bush, though he would like to make everyone think otherwise (save for those who are just a step to the left of bush)

Then I was for Kucinich. He has my primary vote right now.

And then......in the last week emerges this STATESMAN......named Wes Clark. He just floors me everyday in the same way that the Dean campaign machine excited me (it was Dean's campaign that got me), but with Clark, it's policies and more his VIEWS.....

I like the guy, and I KNOW he can win against bush with a landslide mandate!

[CWebster]

15. LOL!

Another desperate Clark corps attempt to erode Dean support.

That Dean showing in Iowa sure put a fire under the foot soldiers on the Net.

[bleedingheart]

16. Clark is a politician now that he is actively running for office

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=politician

"pol·i·ti·cian ( P ) Pronunciation Key (pl-tshn)
n.

One who is actively involved in politics, especially party politics.
One who holds or seeks a political office.
"

Of course their are the derogatory terms for politician...but basically if you run for an office...you become a politician.

Some people use the word "statesman" in order to denote those politicians who are less partisan or offensive to them...but if you run for President of the United States for a particular party you are expected to be the leader of our party as well...so your expected to have a partisan slant.

[Democrats unite]

17. The only comment I will make here is this...

When the presidential primary is over, we will need to comfort all our Dean supporters here. They will be in shock & I don't think they will be able to handle the results that will be handed to them.

[CWebster]

19. It is amusing to me

that along with all this bashing of Dean and his supporters is the acknowledgement that Dean has the groundswell of support necessary to win the primary. I suggest your assumption requires a leap of faith, if not logic.

[bitchkitty]

21. You guys are breaking me -

I pledge a dollar to Dean every time I see a negative Dean thread, and couched in polite language this one may be, this is a negative Dean thread. Which reminds me, I've got to call and see if direct deposit went through - gotta give the Doctor his due!

[Duder]

22. Well good for you saorise

Glad that you support your candidate. Myself, I'm going to win with Dean. Given Clark's lack of experience governing civilians he won't ever replace Dean as a #1 for me but he might be an acceptable vp. This excerpt from the Progressive's Sam Smith kind of sums it up for me:

'Our job is to tell you, as best we can, what the hell is going on. Unfortunately, the facts about Clark simply do not fit the fantasy that has quickly developed around him. This is not a revelation for me. I have been following Clark ever since a high Clinton administration official told me during the Bosnian business what a problem the guy was to all around him. I would subsequently learn that one reason these people were around him was that Richard Holbrooke told them to be there, to reduce the chances of Clark saying something stupid to the press.

Of course, one of the reasons political fantasies are so popular is because the Democratic Party is running low on appealing reality. The party, as a political institution, disintegrated under Clinton, with extraordinary numbers of seats lost at every level from the Senate to the statehouses. If the party were strong, it might today be sharply divided between its conservative and liberal wing but it would not suffer from the embarrassment that the name that does best in polls against Bush is someone named "Unknown." The last thing the party would have to do is hope that a general it doesn't know anything about will fool others as much as he has it.

In Clark's case, the people who are skeptical include a surprising number of professional colleagues both in and out of the military. In fact, I can't recall another instance in which a general has attracted such unenthusiasm from those who worked with him (or as much as they apparently could).

One of the problems is that there are a declining number of people of this country with military experience and thus an increasing number of people - including journalists - who are susceptible of having their heads turned by a few stars and medals. For someone like myself, who served as an aide to an admiral and worked closely with three captains, flag officers are just typical humans in atypical dress. Some, like my boss, are exceptionally talented. Some are fools. And it helps to be able to spot the difference.

My first real appreciation of how difficult this was becoming came as the city of Washington fell woozily for a new school superintendent who was a general. To me it was quickly apparent that the man was an incompetent blowhard, but it was impossible to convince many of this. Eventually, however, reality raised its ugly head and the general was gone.

One sensible way to look at Clark is to figuratively undress him and garb him in civvies. What is it that then that makes him so appealing?

Regardless of how you feel about their politics, Dean, Gephardt and Lieberman have consistent, seriously conceived policies, an integrity of philosophy and purpose, and a record of others having worked with them and thought well of the experience. Clark does not and those who ignore this are casting a part for dreams rather than for reality.'

[retyred]

23. Isn't it amazing

how the anti-Clark Dean folks are the first to jump in and slam the thread of a Clark supporter, yet are the first to scream at the mention of Clark in a pro Dean thread? Those that fear losing the most, scream the loudest and most often.

You're going to find far more Dean supporters jumping ship for the General than vice-versa, Clark appeals to more people and it's only going to get better once people realize there's more to gain through civility and understanding than anger.

Clark not only reaches the supporters of others within the Dem party, but has more appeal across the fence than any of the others, I have personally witnessed the registering of 2 greens, 3 independents and a lifelong Republican and his Libertarian wife to the Democratic party so they can vote Clark in the primary here in Fla.

The slams to your question only reinforces my support of Clark and the belief that fear of losing support drives the opposition, especially when it's displayed for all to see. Rather then ask why this is happening, the first responce is to slam the question....then ridicule those that have made the switch.

On Edit: Every time I get slammed by a Dean supporter, I know I've made the right decision.


Retyred In Fla
So I Read This Book

[Bertrand]

25. I agree

Dean is alienating the supporters of other candidates by his attacks and negative campaigning. This should bode well for Clark, hopefully, since he would be a better candidate for the Democrats than Dean against Bush.

[CWebster]

28. That's why over the weekend

the place turned into a Clark luv fest with Clark threads proliferating like weeds...."screaming the loudest and most often"....hmmmm. You folks must not have anything to do on the weekends.

Actually, I don't trust Clark, and I find his supporters belligerently aggressive, politically naive and easily dazzled by Clark's general status as the sole winning asset to beat Bush. In addition, they are blinded by the ability of the Right to trash Clark's military reputation, considering the Pentagon let him go. That is an insurmountable reality that Clark defenders seem unable to grapple with - Instead they focus on Dean's anger, which I find most curious, since it is a Republican strategy stemming from those who dispute the genesis of Dean's anger, and the appeal it has to the Democratic base.

More often than ever, the entire Clark candidacy is an organized effort to derail Dean on the grassroots level and little more.

[wndycty]

31. "the entire Clark candidacy is an organized effort to derail Dean..."

No its an effort to win the White House. Talk about insecure paranoia!

[CWebster]

32. Win what?

To some of us, winning back our party is just as important, if not more so to our future, than tentitively handing it all to some johny-come-lately with a lifetime entrenched in the military-industrial complex and a questionable career, including war crimes accusations.

Is that really the best choice for the Democratic party? No, I would prefer a Democrat, with a solid foundation of achievement as a Democrat, and can win as a Democrat - rather than courting a Republican to counter Republican spin.

[wndycty]

33. The presidency. . .

. . .we are not trying to win just the battle (nomination) and lose the war (general election) and we believe that Clark is the man to do it. If for some reason the nomination goes to another Democrat, we are ready to support that individual, are you?

[CWebster]

34. Well

you are going to have to convince the hugh groundswell of Dean supporters....which begs the question of why should we go with a candidate who has less support of the base and more potential liability in the General?

This does not seem to be penetrating. Dean has withstood the heat for months and the best they can come up with is that he is "too angry". Hell, the whole world is "too angry" at the Bush administration. Bush can't go anywhere in the world without angry mobs turning out.

[wndycty]

39. So are you saying?

That the groundswell of Dean supporters will choose not to support whomever the Democratic nominee is if it is not Dean? If so that is very telling.

More important you state: "you are going to have to convince the hugh groundswell of Dean supporters....which begs the question of why should we go with a candidate who has less support of the base and more potential liability in the General?"

Think about this, whomever secures the nomination would have the most support of all of the Democratic candidates. So I would hope that you would understand that it would be in the best interest of Dean supporters to support whomever the eventual nominee.

I am prepared to support your guy should he secure the nomination. . .are you prepared to say that same for General Clark or any other candidate?

[CWebster]

42. I can't speak for others

I will not vote for Clark and I will leave the party. Dean is the last hurrah for me. Just by a thread did I vote for Gore last time and still the party is blind to the writing on the wall. I was not alone, in fact the Green party is still blamed, but how is it that the DLC still seeks to alienate activists and progressives and then blames them for Democratic losses? I understand, in the current political climate, that a vote for Kucinich is a luxury too dear, but Dean is still acceptable to me because of what his campaign represents. Sorry, I will not risk what I have resisted and opposed my entire life just for the Republican produced fantasy of what can beat Bush.

[wndycty]

43. So for the record you will vote for DEAN and only DEAN!!!

Not:
Clark
Kerry
Kucinich
Sharpton
Braun
Edwards
Gephardt
Lieberman

Dean and only Dean. So if Dean does not get the nomination you will not do anything to kick Bush out of office...very very very telling!

[CWebster]

46. Dean, Kucinich, Mosely-Braun

What does it tell you? That i am not going to go lock-step into the night?

That is me, I can not speak for others, but most likely I am not alone.

[wndycty]

47. So if those 3 do not secure the nomination you would rather support Bush?

By note voting for the Democratic nominee that is what you are doing.

[CWebster]

51. It is a warning to the Democratic party

do not take the Left's vote for granted.

[wndycty]

55. Well go ahead and warn Bush right back into office. . .

:kick:

[NewYorkerfromMass]

58. Very disturbing proof here of Dean's "Nader" constituency

some people still think it's all just a big game.

[CWebster]

60. Amazing, isn't it

Dean could've actually captured back some of the Nader constituiency.
I voted for Gore, but after what the DLC has wrought to destroy the party, why should I prop them up again? Who is calling the shots of this game?

[Renew Deal]

62. Have you ever done anything for the party

or to shape it? Are you on a Democratic committee? Are ou in a local Dem club? To me it seems like you like to whine about the direction of the party, but have never done anything to shape it besides vote and hang out at DU. Please correct me.

[wndycty]

64. Probably not. . .

. . .if someone does not get their way, they will take ball and go home. Waaa Waaa Waaa

[CWebster]

71. Actually I spent a month in prison for civil disobedience

And you, citizen?

[Renew Deal]

74. Don't get it.

What does that have to do with the Democratic Party? Did Terry M. send you? I am sure the DNC didn't ask you to do to prison.

[wndycty]

63. The true source of our problem

We have here an true example of what can hurt the party. We have supporters of a particular candidate saying if their candidate does not win they are withdrawing from the process. Thats unity isn't it?

[Hep]

69. I've seen the same from

Kerry supporters. And Kucinich supporters. Big Deal. It's only when a Dean supporter does it that anyone gives a rats ass.

[wndycty]

72. It bothers me when ANYONE does it. . .

. . .not just Dean supporters.

[Hep]

75. Amen to that

I thought iwas going to get violent when I questioned the dedication to liberal principles of a person who said he would go green if DK didn't win.

[Renew Deal]

61. George Bush thanks you

Cweb, we have debated on here plenty. I have always had a professional respect for you, but that remark is disturbing. Clark is as "liberal" as Kucinich as one of our colleagues pointed out. Clark has nothing to do with the DLC and never has. Dean was a member and still supports their positions even if they don't get along. So I think... GWB thanks you. Don't let the door hit you in the ass.

[BootinUp]

37. Please

"...johny-come-lately with a lifetime entrenched in the military-industrial complex and a questionable career, including war crimes accusations."

Tone down the rhetoric and support your candidate instead of just trying to smear someone else's. I believe you will find it more effective. How you can call Clark's military career questionable is beyond me though, did you really look into it?

[CWebster]

44. Please

One lone Dean supporter against an army of Clark supporters on a crusade to bash Dean for his "anger" and you are lecturing me. If you are going to dish it out--be prepared to take it.

Of course I looked into it. Clark was not let go from the Pentagon? Well?

[Tom Rinaldo]

52. If you lean left

You should be reassured that Clark alienated many in the Pentagon. He showed far too much compassion for the hard nosed bunch who had their patented prepare for two war strategy in Korea and the Middle East to protect. Clark was pro UN involvement, as opposed to the go it alone we are the World's only super power hawk mind set of the time (and unfortunately of this time under Bush). Clark saw the reemergence of ethnic cleansing and genocide in Europe as strategically important issues for the US to address, not only Oil and South Korea's manufacturing base rated as important to him. Clark was deeply troubled that the US stood by and allowed 800,000 Rwandans to be massacured by machetes when a minimal US show of force could have saved their lives. The prevailing Pentagon view was "It's only Africa."

Here's a quote out of an artical in todays USA Today from an interview with Clark:

"Clark, 58, fielded questions for more than an hour. He was most passionate in defending his decision to push for U.S. military action against ethnic cleansing in Kosovo. He says debate over that action accounts for criticism leveled at him by William Cohen, who was Defense secretary at the time, and Hugh Shelton, who was chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.


"I don't think Secretary Cohen or the Pentagon (news - web sites) fully appreciated what was going on," he said. Cohen moved to cut short Clark's tenure at NATO. Shelton has said Clark's early departure "had to do with integrity and character issues."


"There was never any integrity or character issue there," Clark said. "This was just a policy dispute that people let get personal."


At one point, tears welled in his eyes as he leafed through a book of photographs he had brought of the conflict in Kosovo. He displayed pictures of a Serb soldier kicking a woman lying on the street and of a 5-day-old baby who had died of exposure in the mountains, where her family had fled.


"This is the pornography of violence," he said. He noted that the United States didn't act to stop a bloody civil war in Rwanda. "We dillied and we dallied," he said. "I said I never would let something like that happen again."


And yes I was supporting Dean before Clark, and I will still campaign for him if he wins the nomination.

[CWebster]

59. What the hell do you think war is?

Folks are spoon-fed this Hollywood version of heroic, American liberators in the noble cause. It is bullshit indoctrination. It is always bullshit and it should be the last resort to deal with world crisis. clark is trained in the very machine that seeks military solutions in the same way that a surgeon is trained to operate as a cure.

[Renew Deal]

66. I understand your point but...

There is plenty of evidence that Wes Clark is a compassionate person that looks for alternatives to war. And if he has to fight, he fights smart and is ready. Point one is helping the Kosovars and point two is not losing a single American serviceman in combat.

[Tom Rinaldo]

68. Yup, War is a last resort

Did I or Clark say otherwise? You don't know me, you don't know about the thousands of hours I have spent as an anti war activist dating back to 1967. It is a little bit arrogant on your part to think you can suddenly spoon feed me the reality of war. War was not resorted to in Rwanda and nearly a million innocent civilians died. I was backing the introduction of American armed forces into Rwanda as soon as news of the genocide started breaking. What was your position then by the way? I'm sorry if my world view has nuances beyond Soldiers bad, Doctors good. It does make it more challenging determining right from wrong. But unless you are really hard core and simply assume Generals are all blood thirsty gladiators seeking glory from war, it is often the case that those who have experienced War are those most motivated to avoid it when possible. I believe Clark is the Democrat who will best be able to avoid American involvement in wars even if he can't claim bragging rights as the one most shrilly opposed to war in the abstract.

[BootinUp]

56. Not intended

to be lecturing, sorry. Dean's style has a lot to do with success (some may characterize this in a derogatory manner) but its hard to argue with success. Good luck to the candidate you support.

[Bertrand]

76. Re: That's why over the weekend

Actually, I don't trust Clark

you dont trust Clark but you do trust Dean - a person that is probably the worst flip-flopper among all of the candidates. This speaks for itself.

and I find his supporters belligerently aggressive, politically naive and easily dazzled by Clark's general status as the sole winning asset to beat Bush.

I find alot of the Dean zealots to be beyond rational conversation, but that offers nothing to the debate. Also, how can a Dean supporter label somebody else as being politically naive when their candidate does the worst against Bush in polling among major candidates despite, according the recent CBS Poll, more than doubling the nearest competitor (21 to 9 over Clark) in name recognition?

In addition, they are blinded by the ability of the Right to trash Clark's military reputation, considering the Pentagon let him go. That is an insurmountable reality that Clark defenders seem unable to grapple with

You continue to present your argument with the extreme generalization of "his supporters", and by telling them what their opinion is as a collective. Personally, i know of no one that is shocked by Republican attacks in itself on Democrats after the Clinton years.


Instead they focus on Dean's anger, which I find most curious, since it is a Republican strategy stemming from those who dispute the genesis of Dean's anger, and the appeal it has to the Democratic base.

Perhaps some people are focusing on Deans anger because it only influences those that are emotionally responsive to the vitriol with which he presents his arguments, and not the general public who have a postive view of Bush and are torn as to whether he is doing a good job right now or not. As one commentator has said, "when was the last time the angry populist candidate became president?"

As to your claim that Dean supporters know he isnt a progressive, why dont his supporters repudiate his lie that he's from "the Democratic wing of the Democratic Party"? Why dont Dean supporters tell him to stop misleading the people about his progressive roots then, especially since he was a Centrist DLCer from the 90s that was for triangulation before Clinton was?

[59millionmorons]

24. ME

But to be fair I was a Dean guy just waiting to see if Clark would enter the race.

[IronLionZion]

26. I still can't decide between them

Dean is a great speaker, but is always attacking and always angry.

Clark is a polished gentleman and a Bush-Slayer, but he may be too arrogant.

[retyred]

27. WOW, from all the deleted messages

I guess not everyone thinks anger is working to bridge the gap, trust the mods to see the bigger picture, I think I'll go and donate some more to DU.

Thank You.



Retyred In Fla
So I Read This Book

[JVS]

30. I'm a Kucinich supporter, but I'd vote Dean to prevent Clark

[Yavonne]

35. I'm for DK but I'd vote for John Edwards to block Dean

How can you jump from DK to Dean? They are nothing alike in their positions. John Edwards is the most liberal, next to DK. Well maybe Gephardt but I prefer Senetor Edwards because I think he has a wining message and style.

[Hep]

36. Kucinich thanks you both

Nice to see you guys are voting in SUPPORT of someone.

[Hep]

38. Can we see some evidence

that you were ever a Dean supporter? It really doesn't matter. I don't care who you or anyone else supports. But you don't really go into a lot of detail about why you might have liked him before, what has happened to make you not think he can win, etc. You don't really explain anything.

Maybe you are a highly influential political leader in your community, but otherwise, I'm just wondering, who cares?

I am an avid Dean supporter and have been since day 1. I will happily vote for Clark in the general. I don't see why there has to be this kind of BS rhetoric every day at this board. Support Clark if you want, but be clear on one thing. The subject line of the thread mentions Clark, but Clark isn't mentioned a single time in your post. It smacks of disingenuous.

[Duder]

65. I'm not sure that saoirse was being disingenuous

Since Clark entered the race later, I would imagine that a good portion of his supporters came from one of the other candidates.

Perhaps some jumped on the Clark bandwagon because they were attracted to the uniform and the idea of a non-polician's perceived electability. Of course there's some irony in that all of the candidates are politicians and Clark's amateur status negates to some degree his electability. A resume alone won't make someone electable. You'll have Rove trotting out other generals in support of the Commander in Chief of two wars to out rank one four star general. Appalling as it may be to us, the bottom line is that a four star resume won't be enough to beat Bush in the pr wars, imo.

I don't imagine that saoirse sees the electable issue the same as I do and since Dean continues towards the nomination this post probably reflects the frustration from that. The way my irish eyes see it, is that perhaps saoirse was seeking comfort from others that might have fallen into the same Clark boat.

So I give saoirse the benefit of the doubt, but I could be wrong.

[Hep]

70. I appreciate your input

But I wonder.

[mmonk]

45. Was a Dean supporter

until about 3 weeks before Clark announced he would accept the draft movement.

[Hep]

53. Out of curiosity

How has that whole story worked out. Did the Clark campaign open its arms to the Draft Clark movement? Was that whole thing overplayed as everything else in this primary season is?

Going by the Stupid Media as I will forever call them, there was a rift between the campaign and grassroots supporters at Draft Clark. I'm just wondering how it all worked out.

[mmonk]

67. It involved

someone from the draft Clark movement that wanted to kind of run the campaign. Some didn't want any campaign pros involved. It was ok with most of us.

[Hep]

73. YEah,

If you want a pro campaign you have to hire pros. But you can't alienate your base either. So it's all resolved now?

[mmonk]

78. yes

we have a mixture and that suits most people. For most, its about electing Clark, not individuals and their personal ambitions.

[Rob in B_more]

57. I 've been going back and forth

There is a lot I like about both, I think it will come down to the stratagy to win the general election, a motivated and active base vs. a reach out to independetns and middle of the road repubs.

Clark in alot of ways comes across as more thoughtful, I like everything I hear himsay except his stand on flag burning. Also I am still wondering about that initial flip flop on the IWR, what did he say and what was the context, anyone still have a link. His campaign implementation gives me pause, the stakes are too high for novice mistakes. I am sick of the DLC crew also.

With Dean I am intoxicated by his anger, but I don't hear too much else that excites me besides that and the maserful campaigning. I believe that they have a plan for the general besides more of the same, and I do like that they are not the DLC.

[indigo32]

77. Here

but I still like Dean

[MIMStigator]

79. Me

nt