questions about civil war

[7th_Sephiroth]

is it a crime to advocate it?
what if the peoples voice isint heard any more?
is big buisness trying to creste a slave class?
if so, shouldent people stand up and fight?

[7th_Sephiroth]

1. i'm sorry

but i feel that the people are getting screwed by the u.s. goverment because of "special interest groups" who openly bribe politicians to allow big buisness to do whatever it wants, case in point, Disney, they sent lobbyists to make about 9 million in campaing contributions, the same year, a law is passed extending copyrights (mickey mouse was supposed to enter public domain this year but the unconstitutional law they bought extended it for another 80 years)

on edit

i'm not advocateing civil war, just discussing it

[Bridget Burke]

2. Last time it was tried.....

It didn't work out well for the guys who started it.

[7th_Sephiroth]

3. that was during vietnam

wasent it?

[stopthegop]

4. I believe it would be illegal to attempt it...

advocate it might not be...
it's risky anyway...ask Russia...China...Iran...none of these were better off under the new boss

[mhr]

5. The People Have The Right To Reconstitute The US Government

If the impediment to reconstitution is Big Business, then maybe some changes are necessary.

However, those in power will not relinquish power voluntarily.

If the ballot is unreliable, then revolution is the only recourse.

With Black Box Voting, the ballot has now been compromised.

Hence, armed struggle is the logical next step.

[JailBush]

8. I agree with your comments.

However, the people really haven't made a credible effort, in my opinion.

I believe Civil wars have typically occurred in countries where people were denied the right to vote, or the election process was even more corrupt than ours is. If you studied countries afflicted by civil wars, I suspect you'd discover that most of the citizens lived under very dire conditions.

In contrast, Americans are still quite wealthy, in relative terms. We aren't starving. We have one of the most powerful weapons ever invented at our fingertips - the computer. True, computers do more evil than good, but that's partly because we haven't been as effective at using them as corporations and the government have.

I think future historians would look back on a 2004 civil war as one of history's biggest jokes. They might write something like this, "Voting alone would not have saved American democracy; the system was too corrupt. However, it was not beyond salvaging. The people needed to spend more time studying the issues. More than vote, they needed to recruit good oandidates and support them long before election day.

"Yet the state of American democracy can be seen in candidates' websites. Most consisted of little more than rhetoric, often relating to just one or two often trivial issues. Rather than do their own research, the people listened to media endorsements.

"Thus, Greg Nickels, a man who effectively stole $1.1 billion was elected Mayor of Seattle from a campaign that consisted of littlel more than his slogan - 'The Seattle Way.' The best mayoral candidate, Bob Hegamin, received about 1% of the vote."

Anyone who's itching for war can begin by beating up on the stupid. People should be SHAMED for their political ignorance and for not voting. They should be ridiculed for stupid ideas or gross partisanhip.

We are like the Russians just after the fall of the Soviet Union - we have a democracy, but we don't have a clue about how to use it.

[JailBush]

6. Yes, advocating civil war could be considered a crime.

I can't cite the specific references, but I think you're generally treading on thin ice when you advocate the violent overthrow of the government. And the current administration isn't known for its tolerance of free speech and ideas.

There are other ways to convey your ideas. You might write an article noting how OTHER PEOPLE feel about revolution. Or you could even pose as a right-winger and write a scholarly article discussing issues that might motivate the public to revolt.

However, I really don't think civil war is the answer - and I'm not NEARLY as anti-violence as most liberals and independents are. The fact is, we have the best reform tool in the world - VOTING. As corrupt as the system is, it's still better than what many countries have. The holy grail is the public's mind - how do you get the most apathetic, stupid and materialistic people on Earth to give a damn? I'm convinced it CAN be done, and I see very little evidence of liberals and progressives making a truly good effort.

If we did engage in a civil war, the odds of succeeding aren't great. The government might crush the rebellion very swiftly - and bloodily - and institute an even harsher regime. If the civil war succeeds, who will take power - corrupt Democrats, or Dennis Kucinich? How can we deal with angry conservatives or liberals, depending on which side wins? How can we cater to the needs of such an enormous, diverse and complex nation?

And what kind of fireworks would we experience during our civil war? Remember the unsolved anthrax mystery? The American landscape could be littered with depleted uranium, unexploded cluster bombs, land mines and the bodies of anthrax vicitms. It might look something like Vietnam or Iraq.

You asked, "What if the people's voice isn't heard any more?"

The people's voice is NOT heard any more. On the other hand, the people aren't really making a credible effort to make their voices heard. They need to get their act together.

"Is big business trying to create a slave class?"

I'd say they've already succeeded. But it's hard to expect "the people" to rally when they won't even protect the ultimate slaves - children trapped in derelict public schools that are parasitized by corporations, Republicans and Democrats alike.

"If so, shouldn't people stand up and fight?"

Of course. And they should channel most of their energy and passion into MENTAL WARFARE.

Have you ever run for public office? I have - three times. I have a reputation as a radical, even a violent person. I speak the truth, and I advocate ACCOUNTABILITY for corrupt public officials. Accountability means punishment.

I've never been elected, but I have educated a few people. Believe me, you can pack a lot of militance into a political campaign if you want to. But I'm aware of virtually no political candidates who even try; what a waste.

In summary, if you're itching for war, start doing some research, then run for public office, killing the enemy with ideas and a little name calling. :)

[7th_Sephiroth]

9. its clear the goverment has stopped working

oerhaps its a time for change, just getting rid of campaign contributions and the electoral college, and stopping diebold until after the presidential election would probably change this govermental system drastically, because, instead of bureaucrats picking the president, the people will, and we would force the bribery to be done in secret with extra fear of getting caught, and the prices will be higher

[7th_Sephiroth]

10. its clear the goverment has stopped working

perhaps its a time for change, just getting rid of campaign contributions and the electoral college, and stopping diebold until after the presidential election would probably change this govermental system drastically, because, instead of bureaucrats picking the president, the people will, and we would force the bribery to be done in secret with extra fear of getting caught, and the prices will be higher

[ramblin_dave]

7. We hold these truths to be self-evident,

that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. --That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

[JailBush]

11. Top 10 Things You Should Do Before a Civil War

I love renegade park ranger Edward Abbey's words: "A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his governmenet." But that doesn't always mean taking up arms.

I'm going to have to draw up a list of ten things people should do before they decide to take the plunge and openly revolt against their government. Here are some preliminary ideas. How many have you tried.

1. Do your homework. Most people really don't have a clue about any issues. They know just enough to say, "Traffic sucks." Okay, it sucks - but how would you fix it?

2. Create a credible activist website. If you've created a website that says, "George Bush is a traitor!" then good for you. You've helped the cause. But if you really want to make a difference, then put some information online that will educate the few who want to be educated. Knowledge is power.

3. Run for public office. You do NOT have to get elected to make a difference.

4. Name names. Instead of talking about corrupt public officials in the abstract, say, "Bill Gates is a crook." Identify corrupt individuals on your local school board and city council. Publicize the collaborators!

4. Can the Partisanship. If you can't find at least one opposition issue that you agree with, or at least understand, then you're not going to be much of a uniter.

5. Microsoft... How many candidates have tackled one of the world's biggest evils? Run for public office and make Microshaft-bashing one of your issues! Use your campaign to promote open-source software. Sheez, it isn't that hard to do!

6. Call people stupid. Instead of courting public opinion with inane platitudes, tell a group of people they're a bunch of morons and challenge them to wake wake up.

7. Public education - Pardon the arrogance, but I think I'm one of about thirteen people in America who has a clue about public education. ALL LIBERALS want to give more money to education, which is just like giving money to REPUBLICANS! Wake up and smell the coffee - public education has evolved into organized crime, and the only way to fix it is to tackle the issues head on. If you don't know what those issues are by now, contact me.

* * * * * * * * *

I'll complete my Top Ten list later. The ideas above should get you started.

[sweetheart]

12. Likely direct action is more pointed

Than the old concept of revolution. I imagine if the pressure increases that some seriously disenfranchised folks will decide to "take out" a corporate executive... a little more deliberate than going postal one afternoon, rather a series of targetings of the evil corporatists... sort of red-brigade style.

Like is happening here in the UK regarding the bushaviks pending visit, the anarchists and major major opposition to that evil regime are massing OFF THE INTERNET. Cryptic text messages, mail and verbal meetings are being used to outwit the police who've figured out how internet political organization works.

As facile as the film is, the swarznegger film "running man" contains a truth regarding the new media state and revolution. Any true revolutionary thinking these days is gonna have to involve taking down the television network broadcasts. Whomever is on TV is in government... it don't matter whoz in washingtun.

Certainly i advocate the overthrow of the criminal neocons, but my preference is certainly the ballot box. This week's "economist" puts it succinctly: "in each four year cycle, America holds about 1m elections. Not surprisingly, perhaps, it also has one of the lowest voter turn-outs, making it at once the most and least democratic democracy."

Elections have become perverted to irrelevant spam by the failure to black out the media from politics. This makes more intense direct action necessary in my opinion, and though by mentioning it, i exempt myself from doing such a thing, the fact remains that revolutionary direct action is already being used by the neocon perverts to destroy the constitution... and it is justice that any opposition to perverting the constitution use similar means.

[TexasMexican]

13. Might Makes Right

The thing that determines whether rebelling or having a civil war is legal all depends on whether your side wins or loses.

American Revolution is looked upon favorably by us because we won. The Confederate Secession is looked upon unfavorably because they lost.