Is there some chronic rash of flag burning that I have not heard about?

[Dr Fate]

Flag burning does not even HAPPEN anymore- it's a fantasy "wedge issue"- a "patriotism test" question that GOP/media just loves...

What- are 1000's of radicals burning down college campuses across the USA with lit flags? Are flag burning demonstrations causing riots in our streets? I've never even SEEN it happen- except in very old news clips....


Clark never made flag-burning an issue- but I think he answered the question honestly- he also said:

"...as I travel around the country, what I see is a new spirit of patriotism, and it goes a long way beyond the American flag,"

Clark did NOT bring this up- this is a favorite issue for politicians to look like they are "doing somthing".



My point is that I see all these flag burning threads, but I never see actual flag burning!!!

It's a non-issue, Voters are not clamoring for a flag law- they want Jobs and a sensible foreign policy- issues that Clark DOES bring up...

Is there some reason that voters are all of a sudden going to be interested in this "issue"??? With no one even burning flags that I have ever seen, I dont see how. Probably why Clark did not even bring it up...

[ibegurpard]

1. You are correct, sir.

It seems to me the correct answer when posed with this scenario should be: Is this even an issue? Is there a serious problem with flag-burning in this country? Even if flags are being burned is it of such grave importance that it warrants a constitutional amendment? I think not. I care far more about how passionately Americans support their freedoms than a symbol. If Americans are willing to give up those freedoms then that symbol is meaningless.

[quinnox]

2. Exactly, there are more important fish to fry

This falls in about 100th place on important things to be concerned about.

[bowens43]

16. The issue isn't about burning flags.

The issue is that Clark has demonstrated contempt for the first amendment and the free speech rights of Americans. If he's willing to this, what next? Perhaps make it illegal to criticize the government or the president in times of war? No, there is no room for compromise when it comes to the Bill of Rights.

[dobak]

19. that is not true...

You are inferring from ONE statement, made in front of a bunch of Vets that Clark is against the 1st amendment and will try and take our freedoms away.

I expect reactionary attacks like that from right wingers.

Not sensible Democrats like you and me.

[CWebster]

3. Back to flags again....

See the pattern running through all this?

Confederate flags, burning flags... symbols. Can't make issue of one and dismiss the other.

[Dr Fate]

7. There IS a confederate flag controversy- we DO see lots of those...

...I have seen god knows how many of them- My old state flag of GA had one on it- and it was in every school!!! Ive seen plenty of modern day clips of the Klan and skin-heads with it.

Not- the same at all- the confederate flag IS a current issue based on current events...

Flag burning, well, Ive never seen it in person. Ever.

As far as Deans statements, I know what he meant, and I give him a pass. He is correct to suggest that "rednecks" really should be voting the same as Southern blacks...

[CWebster]

12. You are missing the point

It isn't about how popular burning the flag is, it is about your right to do so should you choose.

[Dr Fate]

18. No, I'm well aware of that point...

And I disagree with a flagburning amendment. I dont miss that point at all, and if Clark makes this some big issue of his, I'll speak out against him...

...my point is that Clark did not make this an issue- but the media and the GOP will, IF they can fool people into thinking we need to be working on flag issues instead of real issues...


If no one is burning flags, I dont see how the public will ever really call for it in a big way...

I agree with you, and I disagree with Clark- but I also recognize that nothing will come of it- It's a wedge issue, best left on the back-burner, or forgotten all together- we have more important things to focus on...

Clark's answer appeared to focus on patriotism more than the actual details of some useless amendment he was asked about...

[Forkboy]

4. I agree

your post should have been Clark's answer.

[Dr Fate]

8. He should have just said the 2nd part of his statement:

"...as I travel around the country, what I see is a new spirit of patriotism, and it goes a long way beyond the American flag,"

And left the "issue" at that-that would have been beautiful!!

I disagree with a flag burning amendment- but unless Clark makes it his focus or somthing, I'm going to let it go...

[frank frankly]

5. ha!

magnificent!

now back to the JLA with you, Dr. Fate!

[Dr Fate]

9. I'm in the JSA, not the JLA...

and I'm from EARTH 2, dammit!!!!, I dont care what the writers say!!!!

[Alenne]

6. I wish candidates would refuse to answer these types of questions

They should simply say this is not an important issue and I will not even discuss it. But I will discuss the problems with health care, the economy and other things that are important to the every day life of Americans.

[bowens43]

17. Not me!

I want to know what they think.

[karlschneider]

10. You obviously have not ventured into eastern Oklahoma lately.

There are thousands of unwashed, long haired, drug chugging Communists
burning Old Glory every day here in the buckle of the bible belt. Jehovah Witnesses, Anglicans, gay activists, Democrats (the horror),
freethinkers, illegal immigrants, wild-eyed anarchists, freedom-hating
terrorists, jews, Buddhists, Hindus, beauty shop employees, Francophile wine-swilling, cheese-eating socialists, and entrepreneurs are regularly building conflagrations of huge piles of Amurikan flags! They also throw a few books on the pyre to raise the temperature of the flames and their own self-esteem!

I can't believe you have not heard about this!

[Dr Fate]

15. Oh- I see- that's why they are selling so well!!!!

...they are flying off the shelf so fast cause everybody CANT STOP BURNING THEM!!!!

It's the latest craze!!!!! I got flag-burning FEVER baby!!!!

[karlschneider]

23. Oh, yes, it's crazy! People used to put up signs "Firewood for sale,

$45 a cord"...now they say "Flags, 2 bucks a dozen. Make great kindling!"

My neighbor has 2 on his SUV. Tattered, torn, windblown and ugly. But by GAWD, he's a PATRIOT!

:puke:

[in_cog_ni_to]

11. Right,

The only time I have seen it since the days of Vietnam, is in other countries. I honestly can't remember any flag burning in recent years.
It's a non-issue right now. Let's focus on the illegal invasion of Iraq, the lack of health care, the lack of jobs, Medicare and SS. Those are the important issues of today.

[nostamj]

13. under bush's environmental policies

flag burners would be expected to regulate their release of toxic emissions voluntarily.

right?

CLEAN <cough cough> SKIES <cough cough> INITIATIVE

[bowens43]

14. The first amendment is NOT a non issue.

Anyone who supports amending the Constitution to place limitations on the free speech of American citizens does not deserve consideration for the Democratic nomination for president. You are blind to the bigger picture. This is not a small issue. This is NOT an a non-issue. This goes right to the core of freedom and civil liberties. The Constitution was meant to PROTECT the liberties enjoyed by the citizens of the United States. It was NOT meant to place limitations on the liberties of the citizens of the United States. You sound like one of those guys defending the Patriot act by saying "I haven't lost any liberties and if you're not dong anything wrong you have nothing to worry about".

Is the vote that important to you? Is having Clark as president MORE important then civil liberties?

[dobak]

20. give it up...

Clark has come out in support of the right to dissent and criticize the government as much, or more, than any other candidate.

His campaign slogan is even about it!

[Dr Fate]

21. No, violations of the 1st Amendment are CERTAINLY an issue...

Call me next time someone is being jailed for burning a flag. I've never seen anyone even perfrom the act, much less be stopped by the govt...

If some body wants to turn people off to their cause by burning a flag, then that is their right to make a fool of themself. Burning flags dont get anyone to support Liberal causes, but if someone is stupid enough to think it does, then that is their right to reinforce media sterotypes of "unpatriotic liberals". Not a great strategy, but its your right just the same...

If Clark makes this some big issue, then I will oppose that. As it is, he did not even bring it up...

[K-W]

22. I agree with you partially, but the point is that

an opinion on flag-burning is not an opinion in a void. It represents how a candidate stands on the issue of nationalism vs free speech, which has many more important incarnations in reality.

[Dr Fate]

25. and that is why I disagree with him...

...I have not seen a DUer yet who does agree with Clark on that- it was the 2nd part of the statement that he made for the base...

Clark has made other pro-free speech statements though- and he publically supported the war protestors rights as well...

If ANY politician makes flag burning a huge issue out of nothing, I will oppose that...as it is, Clark did not even bring it up, he was asked a question on Vets day, in front of vets...

[K-W]

27. It is a crappy issue all around

if only the American people were aware enough to generally be on the right side of the issue. The problem is that alot of Americans with generally liberal or moderate values have been brainwashed into fervent nationalism on the issue of the flag and thus it sticks liberal politicians into a crappy position.

[TrogL]

24. Phelps burned a Canadian flag a few years ago

But he was having trouble with it and the RCMP had to help get it going (suggested lighter fluid).

Canadians just don't get it. It's a symbol. You guys are turning it in to a religious icons. I thought you hated religious icons.

[Dr Fate]

26. I like religious symbols too...

...in fact, I'm fascinated with symbols of all kinds. I've always liked the US flag motif since I was a kid...

...Desecration of religious and political symbols is protected by the 1st amendment...They represent ideas, and ideas can be scrutinized and desecrated jus like anything else...

...Perhaps an image of a burning Amercan flag is patriotic in some ways- I mean, You could not do that in Saddam's Iraq (or probably Bush's)or China, but you can here...

...too bad most Americans dont see it that way- that is IF they ever actually saw someone burning flags...I never have..