How can Younger voters go Repuke?

[mot78]

I've been hearing all this talk recently about younger voters supporting *, but do any of them realize who is in that party? If they knew more about people like Fallwell or O'Reilly, who are always telling teens to shut up and know their place, then I don't think they'd ever vote Repuke again.

[Davis_X_Machina]

1. They're adolescents, or not far removed from adolescence...

...and so they remember a few things from those days, at least the males:

Blowing stuff up is cool.
'Loser' is the biggest insult.
Except for 'gay', that is.
Blowing stuff up is cool.
People who are different are seriously not-cool.
The only way for the weak to survive is to ape the strong.
Did I mention blowing stuff up is cool?

And this is from kids who are only months away from being draft bait.

Twenty years ago, when I started teaching high school, the usual invective was 'Communist', as in 'Pop quiz, you can't do that, that's Communist!' Today it's 'gay', and in 'Pop quiz, you can't do that, that's gay.
Soon it will be 'liberal'.

The two biggest myths in American politics are that voters vote their pocketbooks and that youth is naturally rebellious.

I hate to see my party relying too much on either one of them

[Nailzberg]

4. My theory is the youngsters are paralyzed by fear.

The reports are saying the college students are more likely to trust Bush. Look at their situation.

There are quite a few involved youth, which is good. But the majority don't start truely understanding politics until late in college, or after college. I think the first Presidential election after you're 21 is a good average starting line for when people on campus get interested.

Now, traditionally, that favored Dems because the students didn't find commonality with old white men.
What made this generation different is was 9/11.
Most of these college students were either in high school, or were first or second year college when they watched 9/11 over and over on the TVs in their classrooms. That whole group of students is still non-political, but if they're polled, they love Bush, because they think he's keeping them safe. It won't be until they reach political enlightment phase, the election after 21, that I beleive they'll start identifying with parties based on their beliefs.

A few months ago, I had lunch with Jan Schakowsky, and we were discussing ways Democrats could reach out to the young people. Hell, I'm only 27 and I can't understand the young people. They never really got exposure to the parties.


Of course, I could just be completely wrong about all of this, but I've been working on this for two months and it's been frustrating to figure out. Because if I'm right, we have to convince youth that Dems can keep them safer. And since they aren't paying attention anyway, it's gonna be a tough one.

[mot78]

9. Agreed

I think the problem with younger voters is that they're easier to brainwash. They're more likely to watch Faux than listen to NPR, simply because they feel Faux is entertaining and that normal news is the best way to snooze. There's also that Lord of the Flies mentallity.

[politicat]

27. The mini-generation gap....

I'm 27, too, have a few acquaintances in the 16-22 age range (and oh, boy is there a difference between us... it's scary....)

Start with: You bust your ass for $6.00 an hour part time and then lose 33% of it in FICA, SSA, and other payroll taxes. You file 1040EZ since you really don't have any deductions and get part of that 33% back, but not a lot.

You didn't have a great deal of indepth US economics, so for you, a tax is that money they steal out of your paycheck. You only hear the sound bites and don't think about how they will apply to you and yours.... but assume they will. Cuz you're average, and this is average people news.

You don't read the paper because it takes forever and it costs money and they write like old farts. Papers aren't l33t.

College is costing you about $40K a year, up over 200% in 10 years. You hear your parents bitching about the costs and how much more they would have under some delusional Repug plan.

In HS, every day you had abstinence only health class, wore WWJD junk, the cool kids were getting "2ndary Virginity" certificates and talking about their one-on-one personal relationship with God, the Goddess, some such. Everyone who was anyone was really spiritual and semi-fundie Xtianity is much more socially acceptable than liberal Xtainity or any eclectic belief or other belief system. Repug are tightly tied with the fundie Xtian community. Being different is bad in HS. (This is not to say that Xtianity is necessarily bad, but the HS version is very fundie at times.)

The churches sponsor youth groups that are actually kind of cool. They do free skate parks, (except for that 10 minute sermon and prayer session you have to sit through) dances and such. They have outings - go to the neo-con rally and then the beach. And hey, there are adults that pay real attention to your problems, not just yell at you and bitch because you're asking for money AGAIN.....

Thus you absorb unsound, possibly dangerous (if it's one of the white supremicist churches or one that teaches everyone's going to hell but us) theology with your ice cream, right-wing propaganda with your free pizza. Osmosis, baby.... (GROSSLY OVERSIMPLIFIED, but interpolate, people.)

If your parents were at all yuppie-ish, you were very protected, very scheduled and had little to no freedom to explore who and what and where you wanted to be and go and do and think. You were too busy with tutoring and play-dates and extra activities.

Your teachers squashed any discussion of controversial topics because the freeper parents would call in and complain, go to the school board and ask for the teacher's ass on toast with white sauce, and otherwise make it not worth the $14 an hour. The Freeper parents have learned the value of a cowed and cowardly school board, or better yet, one made up of their own, covert friends and collegues. They also know that the impoverished public school districts can't afford a lawsuit and will do ANYTHING - including fire a very good, liberal teacher - if there is even the possibility that a suit will come up. (BTW, my friend the teacher says this is why kids don't respect teachers - in America, a person is respected based on their salary and teaching pays about as well as managing a fast good outlet.)

If you're a teen, you're scared to death that things are just going to get worse and you're too young to realize just how good we had it under Clinton (under Clinton, you were in Junior High and only really noticed the sex stuff that made your parents get all weirded out when you had to watch the news for civics) because you weren't working then. So better the devil you know, right? And they've got to be smart to be president, right?

The Repugs do the same shit your parents do - do as I say not as I do, My money's different than your money, I'll tell you what I feel like telling you and nothing more - so it feels comfortable and safe. Not necessarily fair, but comfortable and safe. And no matter how liberal or conservative your parents are, they do this kind of thing because it's part of the territory for being a parent.

And yet, there is an even bigger, stranger, thing that makes you go huh.... The big truth is this: The next generation always rebels against the dominant paradigm. This process is also speeding up - what used to take 30 or 40 years now takes 10 or less. The Early Victorians were a rebellion against the excesses of the Regency. The Late Victorians were an economic rebellion against the laissez faire economics of the Early Victorians, and the Edwardians were strong regulators of the trades and anti-monopolists. Then 20's Lost Generation was a rebellion against the restriction and prudery of the Victorians and Edwardians; we see a return to laissez faire capitalism and another backlash in the Great Depression, though we miss the social rebellions thanks to the Depression and WWII. The post-war period is a rebellion against the forced frugality and economic restrictions of the Depression and the War years; social behaviors that were fine in war time - women working, more casual attitudes towards sex - disappear. The Hippies were a rebellion against the rigidity of the post-war anti-communist period; the 70's-80's Moral Majority was a rebellion against the hedonistic late 60's and 70's; the liberal 90's were a rebellion against the failed moralization and excessive consumption of the Me Decade. You can really see this in women's fashion, as bizarre as that seems.

Which means.... that the current kids are rebelling against the liberal 90's when X,Y, and Z all failed (what ever those are....)

There's a reason that many cultures consider "Nostalgia" a disease.... and why the root words do literally mean "returning home" and "pain". The greeks literally considered homesickness and illness.....

Can we fix it?
Yep.
Return the voting age to 21 and raise the age of military service to 21. Require 2 years of government classes, plus a full year of economics - and let one year be Liberal politics, and the other be Conservative politics , conducted a week at a time, balanced back and forth.

Befriend a couple of teenagers/young college kids and steer them in the right direction. Help them understand what's going on and how it affects them. Be gentle and kind, and be a friend, not a parental figure. Peer pressure - if you're close enough in age to be a peer - works great here.

Support a liberal, brightly colored, fast paced television cable station.....

Politicat (who knows too much about history to want to live in a "Golden Age". Brass, all of them at best. I like my plumbing and my equal rights, thank you.)

[cally]

37. Your post is very insightful

I mostly agree with you about the more yuppie kids. I think so many who have lived in poverty just don't have the hope that life can be better. So they pay minimal attention to politics, vote for the winning team, and go back to their daily life.

Different issue, but I think it's the same problem. I once attended a workshop on why the fundie churches were growing so rapidly while the more mainstrean liberal Christian churches lost membership. Much of it was the lack or programs for young families and youth but a huge part is that liberal churches have a more complicated, intellectual message. The fundie churches have sound bytes that are very simple. I'm using the "fundie" name to describe the Christian right type of church. I do know that many fundamentalist churches and churchgoers are much more thoughtful.

[Carolina]

42. excellent points

I have a 20 year old. Good kid, but his life has been a charm. I try to impress upon him that nothing he has or takes for granted was achieved without a struggle and I never tire of telling him that I lived through segregation, civil rights, Vietnam and all the assassinations starting with my beloved JFK's, that I was politically active at 12 and worked on my first campaign (RFK's) at 15. When he seems apathetic making comments that politics doesn't matter I let him know in no uncertain terms that politics matters most because political decisions affect his life.

I demanded that my son and his friends register to vote when they came of age. It is with sadness that I have to admit I "demanded" because to them, it was not that important. During the 2002 midterm elections, I harassed them to get their absentee ballots and vote straight Democratic.

Unfortunately, kids have consumed the outright and subliminal messages of consumerism and many, my own included, just want to get good jobs, make a lot of money and "live the good life." Also, far too many spend too much time in front of the idiot box (TV) or playing violent computer games where fighting, destruction and winning (at all costs) are cool.

I think it will take a direct threat, perhaps something like the draft which my generation faced for them to wake up to reality. But I rather hope they evolve without such an awful necessity.

[cryofan]

33. Aff Action, political correctness drives most from Dems

The problem with all age groups when it comes to Democrats is the affirmative action/racialist aspect of political correctness which is such a strong part of Democratic platform.

The Democrats segregate. And so do the Republicans. And that is the way the elites in both parties like it. It is essentially and deeply unfair, and of course, young Americans, like other age groups understand and react to this unfairness.

The true progressives in the Democratic party want to Europeanize America with something like the cradle to grave social benefits that western europeans have.

No more racial divisions, and you offer the kind of social benefits that racial minorities need in order to have a level platform.

You say this cannot be done? That Americans will revolt against the high levels of taxation? I disagree! All the dems would have to do would be to really communicate the realities of the western european welfares states to Americans. MOst of them do not understand just how much we are taxed in comparison to western europe, and how much more they get for their taxes.

But the Dems, like the GOP are more interested in maintaining the status quo than anything else....

[Kinkistyle]

2. Think "Lord of the Flies"

First of all, many kids get indoctrinated by their parents (and sometimes the school system).

Second of all, and I think this is a big reason - most kids just simply don't understand the concept of humanism and compassion. They just think about themselves and what is good for them. I was that way: "Screw the Middle East man, we just drop a nuke on both Israel and Palestinians and start over." Yeah, thats' the way I used to think in high school, and so did my friends.

But after going to college and taking some "liberal" arts classes, meeting people from different cultures and people with different opinions my eyes were opened. I went to school in NYC. There are people out there who go to some bumblef*ck Christian school like Bob Jones where everyone is just like them and they never change. These people turn out to be like Trent Lott.

[AmandaRuth]

3. plus

they have been over propagandized for years now. This has been scripted and planned to the ninth degree from way back. And to think some dems STILL think that hate radio/media control/faux news is 'entertainment' and not to be taken seriously.

[wuushew]

5. 2002 marked the first year of complete conservative indoctrination

from craddle to voting booth.

Those born under the shadow of Raygun are honoring the great communicator.

[maggrwaggr]

7. Exactly!

An entire generation has grown up thinking Ronald Reagan was a "great" president.

[JohnKleeb]

6. I dont know why people my age would honestly

besides lol we are more open about shit. I think its good olde greed ;) emphasis on good

[Speed8098]

32. John you are the exception to the rule

I've been reading your posts since you joined, and I think you've gained your wisdom at an early age. I wish there were more teenagers out there that have your keen insight.

Unfortunately I think another poster is correct when they say it is the exposure to the constant stream of propaganda spouted by faux news and other right wing led news organizations that clouds the perceptions of todays teens.


It is a pleasure to be here with you John and I hope you can influence some of your less informed peers and we can once again take back our government.

[JohnKleeb]

46. But speed I am not the only one my age here

I know why I think, green, that could be why, by green I mean money.

[tritsofme]

8. I am as perplexed as you are

I have a nephew, 17 years old, a senior in high school, really a bright young man, but he is shamelessly Republican. I will give him as much credit as he truly seems committed to his views, and he researches and provides justification for his arguments. The kid is a history buff and could just go on and on about any subject you ask him, of course with traditional bias attached, and he even recognizes his biases but disregards them.

He thinks you know who is a great (p)resident, if for nothing else, pushing what he percieves to be a conservative agenda.

What I dont understand is, that his parents are for the most part politcally apathetic, average people, they dont really pay much attention to politics. I know for a fact that his father (my brother) voted for Gore in 2000 and at least Clinton in 1996. But this kid just cant wait to turn 18 and register as a Republican!

I just really dont understand where he even got such leanings at such a young age, let alone to the extreme that he has taken them. I can only hope that some experience in the real world will wake him up a bit, but to me at least, it seems like he is the type of Republican that we'll be facing in the future.

[pansypoo53219]

11. most likely ? Clear channel

which owns a lot of the top stations and probably has right wing DJ's from NYC to LA. I know the 'hard' rock station has them. and yes they are amusing to a point. but i can see how that would influence a young man.

[lysergik]

10. They don't think for themselves, they follow their crotchety parents lead

Which I just don't understand. Maybe its fear of rejection from their parents?

[caledesi]

12. Younger voters? You mean 18-year olds?

Well w/ the debacle in Iraq and a scent of "draft" in the air, how do you think they will vote? Not for *. They don't want to go to war.

[RummyTheDummy]

26. They'll do what they always do on election day......

Stay home or go to the mall. Courting younger voters is a total waste of time in my opinion.

[leftyandproud]

13. social security..

not that they want it...but many I've talked to love the idea of "privatization". They don't think the current system will be there for them, and aren't thrilled about paying into it for 40+ years to collect nada. This is why our candidates need to address the issue now and reaffirm our committment to the system for the next 100 years.

[Hippo_Tron]

24. Anybody tell them that Bush isn't even going to privatize it?

Bush is going to ignore it if he gets re-elected. I kind of think that any chance of saving SS was fucked over by the Republican congress back in '99. Oh that aweful man Bill Clinton wanted to ensure my social security benefits, the nerve of that guy.

[jpgray]

14. If you aren't cool, you're a conservative.

It sounds funny, but really--have you seen any really attractive and intelligent conservative young kids? I don't think the combination exists over on their side, but we have it in spades over here. We've got Richard Pryor, Bob Dylan, Woody Guthrie--who do they have? Coolness is on our side, but there are people out there who will just never be cool. The only thing then is to be a conservative.

:)

(half sarcastic, I think)

[Hippo_Tron]

15. Tiz called the Young Republicans club...

http://www.cnn.com/2003/EDUCATION/11/06/float.flap.ap/index.html
I found this article somewhat humorous, yet VERY scary.

[Shigley]

16. They don't in any numbers

Most people under the age of about 30 couldn't give a damn about politics. There are exceptions(like me), but we're few and far betweeen(less so at university, but even then most people don't much care, they're just louder about it). As for what gets the youger crowd into politics and where they land on the spectrum, there are a thoudsand different reasons. Parents raising their kids to prefer one side or the other, a few experiences pushing them one way or the other, a hundred other similar reasons could make kids Republicans or Democrats, libertarians or communists, or any of the thousand gradients between them. But no level of happenstance or indoctrination can keep everyone down, and I think that it says good things about the youth of society that so many of them seem to have their heads screwed on right. Where would we be if it weren't for the university crowd? That's certainly not the whole left-wing movement, but it's a damn important part, and that's what the majority of the youth believe in, not in some collection of beliefs that belong in the worst of the South of 40 years ago. There will always be people who are wrong, in every age group, but younger voters are certainly much more activist and correct than your comment would indicate.

[newyawker99]

29. Hi Shigley!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[dflprincess]

17. I heard a report on MPR this morning

that the truth of more college kids identifying as Republican is this:
1. The Repukes are making more of an effort to reach out to college age voters and
2. The majority of college students still identify themselves as liberal or leaning left BUT these kids see very little different between the Democratic and Republican parties and so don't identify themselves as Democrats.

[elperromagico]

18. Parental influence/Ignorance nt

[EV1Ltimm]

19. my money's on that answer.

whenever i hear a kid bashing democrats or talking about over-taxation, I ask if their daddy thinks that way too...

They always say "yeah, but what does that have to do with anything?"

[jburton]

20. 2 things

1. "Young" voters barely vote. Sorry. (And I am one)

2. If you do a crosstab of "Young" voters versus ACTAUL REGISTERED VOTERS it is not necessarity nutty right wing.

[tritsofme]

21. Read this survey,

take Gallup as you will

Young Americans are slightly less likely than older Americans to say their views on social issues are conservative, with 32% of 18- to 29-year-olds saying they are conservative on these issues, and 39% of those 30 and older saying so. And while scenes of campus activism lead one to believe that young Americans are decidedly liberal in their views on social issues, that is not the case. Just 27% of those 18 to 29 say they are liberal, quite similar to the 23% of those aged 30 and older who self-define themselves as socially liberal.

However, young Americans are considerably more likely to say they are economically liberal than Americans aged 30 and older are, with 24% of young Americans saying so and only 12% of older Americans saying the same. Older respondents are more conservative on their views about economic issues than are younger respondents (45% to 32%, respectively).......

Political Affiliation

Americans aged 18 to 29 are somewhat less likely than older adults to affiliate themselves with either the Republican or Democratic parties. Nearly half (45%) of young adults say they are politically independent, with the remainder more likely to identify themselves as Republicans (30%) than as Democrats (24%). By comparison, only 38% of the older adults say they are independents, while 34% identify themselves as Republicans and 27% say they are Democrats.

Some experts believe that an affiliation with one of the political parties grows over time the more people vote and become familiar with the political process. That younger voters are still developing their political orientations gives the young voter segment particular importance to politicians who try to influence that process and thus create lifelong partisans. The downside of the youth vote, on the other hand, is the fact that in the short term, young people are much less like to vote than those who are older.

http://gallup.com/poll/releases/pr031105.asp

Poll also shows younger people rate bush at 61% while 30- rate him at 53%

[jburton]

22. the fallacy of "Under 25 voters"

Incredibly mobile!

They aren't like old folks that live at the same place for 30 years.

It is a very volotile demographic.

[Angelus]

23. being 21...

and in college, I've noticed that more college students here in MN are turning democrat because republicans are known to younger people like me as assholes. Candidates that ran for senate here in MN (eg, the late Paul Wellstone, Mark Dayton) actually came here to talk to the students, whereas Norm Coleman came here, shook a few "higher ups" hands, and left. Which party do you think actually cares about us? Yep, the Democrats.

[canuckagainstBush]

25. .

If young voters knew what Republicans really stand for they wouldn't vote for them.
Canadian youth are overwhelmingly progressive.

[raysr]

28. They'll wish they'd listened....

when they get the letter"Greeting, from the President of the United States of America. You have been inducted into the United States Army". I'll never forget the way I felt when I opened that letter! And it wasn't pride!

[newyawker99]

30. Hi canuckagainstBush!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[Kamika]

31. Im 21 aswell

In HOUSTON and i dont know a single one my age whos a conservative.. and I go to a church where pretty much everyones parent is a republican cuz of religion.


BUT What I think might appeal to young ppl is the whole "war is cool" thingy

[raysr]

43. Go ask

the guys at Walter Reed with no arms or legs how cool it is.

[Iverson]

34. one element of many

I have to believe that it has something to do with the national structure and strategy, if any, for recruiting young people.

The Repugnant party has been pouring money into campus organization. This attracts right-wing kids who don't want their minds opened by higher education. Democrats put less time and money into campus organizing and appear far less interested in leftist activists.

Last February when I was helping to organize a teach-in against the imminent invasion of Iraq, it was the Green students who provided the energy, and angry young Republicans that constituted the (few) challengers. Young Democrats just didn't show. I know that they were organized on campus because at least a couple were students of mine.

It's anecdotal evidence, but it seems replicated in the larger question of the drift to the right.

[LiberalTradition]

35. Al Sharpton. We could go back and forth all day.

In addition the ideas of Adam Smith and Edmund Burke hold a good deal of appeal.

If I wanted to convince young voters to become Democrats I would explain a crucial difference between progressive and conservative principles.

I would point out that according today's conservatives such as William F Buckley and Jonah Goldberg the logical application of conservative principles leads to opposition of efforts like the civil rights movement.

I wouldn't smear conservatives or those men with charges of racism. I would just point out that being a conservative means that logically you should be against the civil rights movement.

[LiberalTradition]

36. Oh yeah. I also would refrain from telling them that

if they were seriously thinking about becoming a Republican that meant they were a brain washed, evil, idiot.

Just one man's POV.

[0007]

38. Many young ones are perhaps brain washed by the media whores!

These media whores reach out to appeal to the young not the old. The hard core right is already locked in, so the network in my opinion caters to the 18 to 40 group.

[realFedUp]

39. rebellion against liberal parents?

I have a step-daughter who leans right...I
have to think it's rebellion.

[catzies]

45. That's what I have...my daughter is leaning to the right and disdains

the values I've tried to give her, because, I guess, they're MY values. :shrug: She's 23 and has been rebelling for close to ten years now. x(

[livinontheedge]

40. You won't like the answer . . . war and taxes.

In my opinion, 9-11 turned a lot of younger voters republican. Plus, as they start working, they see how much the government is taking out of their paychecks and they go with the party that promises to lower their taxes. I don't think younger voters are crazy about affirmative action but it is much less important to them than security and taxes. Of course, their feelings are misguided but have been shaped by wingnut media.

[raysr]

44. Taxes

How do they think the roads get built, the scools run, public transit on and on. Are they so uninformed they think that the country will roll w/o taxes?

[Zorra]

41. Any American 21 or under

has been constantly bombarded with pro-corporate RW media crap since the day they were born. And not every young person is insightful enough to see through the BS. TG there are some that are.