Our troops are not dying for nothing.

[Sterling]

I think that is what Starpass was trying to say anyway.
Americans will not tolerate another Vietnam. The deaths of US service men are causing many previous complacent Americans to become interested and active in politics and social change.

The dying in Iraq is a reality regardless of how you feel about it. By the same token so is the positive change that may come from the population of a democratic society being reminded of what is at stake when we choose our leaders.

[david_vincent]

1. Interesting choice of words

I would've phrased it, "what is at stake when we let the power to choose our leaders be taken from us."

[Sterling]

3. That works as well,

There were some positive side effects from Vietnam and it is a horrible shame the way they had to come about.

[Dirk39]

2. And wasn't it a sad - o.k.it already is a sad proof...

of the PNAC theory set into practise that just failed miserable?
Couldn't even the Republicans do something like this again? Wasn't there something about leading 4 wars at the same time (Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz)?

Isn't it at least reality that will even push the most cynical Republicans back into Multilaterism? However they will come out of this, however this war will end, does anyone think, they will dare to do this stupid crap again?
I just hope, they got out there, before the Shiites get the fact that the US-government will not accept their "god-state" and start to fight. Till now, they are loyal. And they would have 65% of the people in Iraq behind them. This is the reason they are loyal since now.


Hello from Germany,
Dirk

[Ardee]

4. what a price to pay

to learn something that we all should have known already. One nation cannot and should not invade another nation unless it has clearly and provably been attacked by that country.

The best thing to come out of what will continue to be a deteriorating situation in the middle east ,imo, is that the theories of PNAC are shown to be a bunch of garbage.

[Ardee]

5. so now Istutter???

removed as a dupe, sorry but blame the gremlins in the software.

[DuctapeFatwa]

6. Nothing? not exactly...Here's what they're dying for

Halliburton announced over the weekend that third quarter 2003 income from continuing operations was $92 million or $0.21 per diluted share. Net income was $58 million or $0.13 per diluted share, which includes a net loss from discontinued operations of $0.08 per diluted share.
http://www.vanguardngr.com/articles/2002/business/b204112003.html
==============================================================



" HOUSTON, United States (AFP) - US oil industry services giant Halliburton said Thursday its Kellogg Brown and Root unit's profits rose four-fold and sales leapt 80 percent, boosted by work in Iraq (Profits from the unit's operations soared to 49 million dollars in the three months to September from 12 million dollars a year earlier, helped by "government services activity in the Middle East," Halliburton said.

KBR, the engineering and construction division that netted a no-bid government contract to help rebuild Iraq's shattered oil industry, also posted an 80-percent jump in sales to 2.3 billion dollars. "

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/afp/20031029/bs_afp/us_oil_iraq_halliburton_031029181531

[liberalmuse]

7. I agree.

I've also read Starpass's post on this issue and I've read enough of her stuff here to know she means well, even though a lot of people who obviously don't know what she's about jumped on her. I love her rants, and if people were honest, they'd admit that they've felt the same way in times of sheer frustration and anger about this very issue. Do those of us against this war want our armed forces slaughtered? No! I think about our troops stuck in that hell every day, which is more than the happy warmongers are doing. I also think about the innocent people who are being killed at a rate of 20-30 times more than our soldiers. But what is it going to take to get people to care? If over 300 dead troops, no evidence of promised WMD's, no Saddam and knowledge that the Bush administration lied and used faulty 'evidence' to get us into this war doesn't do it, what will?

We're told we're hurting the soldiers if we organize peace marches. Bullsh*t! Personally, I think sending them into hostile territory where they learn to pile up 'kills', get their limbs blown off, end up with their minds shattered or dead is a lot more harmful. I also think it is harmful to the citizens of Iraq--who have done absolutely NOTHING to us.

Thus far, Americans have proven they are no less barbaric than any other society in history that has committed atrocities against others. We're not the 'good guys', especially if we're willing to turn a blind eye to our own dead and wounded. Sure, the White House is hiding the caskets from us, but that's because we, a suppsedly free nation, 'Of the People', are letting them get away with it.

Starpass was stating more fact than wishful thinking, IMO. A lot more of our soldiers are going to die and suffer before people give a sh*t, and that's so g*dd*mned sad and disgusting. And then those of us who know this war is morally reprehensible are told to 'Shut up!'-as if we've no right to voice an opinion. Well, it's our country, too. What's it going to take? Massive slaughter in Iraq. Our troops and their families/friends don't deserve this, but WTF? The country they are serving and those who say they hold them in such great esteem arewilling to sacrifice them so they can feel good about American might and power. That's just sick.

[leftofthedial]

8. their deaths expose the truth, bit by bit

that we are the bad guys, the invaders and the occupiers.

I regret that 1000's of casualties have not been enough to make the country rise up and demand that we bring them home now and end this unconscionable occupation.