Dean's Confederate Flag comments: Racism, Strategy, or Honest Gaffe?

[Skinner]

By now, most of you have heard about Howard Dean's recent comments regarding the confederate flag.

Here are his recent comments to Des Moine Register:

"I still want to be the candidate for guys with Confederate flags in their pickup trucks. We can't beat George Bush unless we appeal to a broad cross-section of Democrats."

Here are similiar comments by Dean at a February DNC meeting:

"White folks in the South who drive pickup trucks with Confederate flag decals on the back ought to be voting with us, and not (Republicans), because their kids don't have health insurance either, and their kids need better schools too."

Which of the following comes closest to your opinion about Howard Dean's comments?

[WillyBrandt]

1. Well-meaning, but ineffective

Dean's statement was not racist in the least. He was saying that the Democrats should appeal to working class Southern whites on economic grounds, that we should try to appeal to the "better angels of their natures."

I would prefer that he just would scathingly denounce the flag, but as a Yankee he cannot afford to do that. Moreover, I doubt very much that anyone would be attracted to his formulation: blacks and moderate whites would either be neutral or hostile, while those who really do have those decals would take it to be patronizing (which it is).

Unfortunately, Dean does not have the cultural cred to do well in the South. While he's right that we must fight for the South, he is not the one best placed to do so. (Which, for one, is a big reason I support Clark).

[Classical_Liberal]

3. Be honest!

You aren't attacking him because this won't go over well in the South. You are attacking him because it will.

[WillyBrandt]

6. No, it will go over TERRIBLY in the South

Are you serious? How long have you lived in the South?

The gut reaction of the guy in the pickup truck is: "Say what? Are you talking down to me, motherfucker?!"

[Blue_Roses]

48. yep--

exactly

[Classical_Liberal]

66. I'm hoping that they will take the time to think about their

childs lack of health insurance. All politics entails risk, and educated guesses.

[WillyBrandt]

92. fair enough

But he should just go there and talk about health insurance. He could do well by that.

This Confederate Flag bit is just the wrong way to do it. This hits at issues of identity which Dean is ill-position to address. If he aggressively courts their interests, I think he has a chance.

[Classical_Liberal]

117. I just don't agree. One must talk about a problem in order to solve it

Dean is not just about himself, he is actually presenting an alternative path for the Democrats in terms of how to run campaigns.

[WillyBrandt]

120. i'm not criticising dean's campaign in toto

he has run an excellent one. but referring to these guys as folks with confederate flag details is just not going to help garner their votes or anyone else's.

[Classical_Liberal]

125. That remains to be seen!

.

[snoochie]

130. I don't think that's likely.

There's a lot of people described with the 'are you talking down to me?' reaction -- and they don't usually follow that up with a thorough consideration of the facts.

[RetroLounge]

87. and you know he will feel this way because?

1) You are above the guy in the pickup?
2) You are at his level?
3) You are below him?

Please answer, as it will shed light on your response...

"The gut reaction of the guy in the pickup truck is: "Say what? Are you talking down to me, motherfucker?!"

[WillyBrandt]

91. Here's why

Growing up in Florida you learn a few things about the Old Confederacy, especially when it involves long stints away in rural North Carolina.

I grew up "at his level" (whatever the hell that means), driving around my dad's pick up truck, and hanging out with my (immigrant) dad's redneck-ish friends.

It's SO OBVIOUS this is a terrible idea. I mean, a Yankee Doctor talking down to people with Confederate decals. Jesus, how much more plain can this be?

[janekat]

141. I'm from the South and I've only seen 1 Confederate flag in 8 years

the entire time I've been here (I've lived in 4 different cities in Florida). I don't think that there are too many people in the South (other than Georgia, I guess) who have flags.

The one time I saw a Confederate flag I asked the people who had the flag if they were racist - and I guess they must have gotten embarassed because I noticed later that they had taken it down.

I do find it somewhat weird that Northerners think that there's all these Confederate flags flying around down here. I'd be curious to see how many people in the South actually have Confederate flags.

[ModerateMiddle]

37. who is not being honest?

There are Dean supporters who claim that Dean will be competitive in the South because of his stand on guns. But what about Dean's own argument, oft repeated, that we can't beat Bush by being "Bush-lite"?

The folks in the south who are going to make their choice based on the gun issue KNOW that they have a friend in Bush. They won't vote for Dean. This about guns, and now about the flag, are silly arguments based on someone's fantasy.

[Classical_Liberal]

65. Wrong

Dean didn't support the confederate flag. He said the voters that did needed health insurance, and good jobs too. So though I wasn't talking about your dishonesty since i have never seen you before, I guess I can include you now.

[Noordam]

2. I think the key is

"because their kids don't have health insurance either, and their kids need better schools too"

Should the Dems write off the military because they always vote Repug. NO NOT THIS TIME.

So to go after the southern repugs what have families and are open to somebody that want to help THEIR families is good to me.

[snoochie]

131. Military

are forced by circumstance to be more considerate of the situation as a whole. Most of the people like this aren't. They're not deep thinkers.

I know some who are unemployed and living off the graces of others but they still feel there should be no minimum wage and regulations are bad.

On the good side, they all hate NAFTA. :)

[jobycom]

4. You left off "Dean genuinely believes that to be a leader he has to

be a leader for all Americans, not just for Democratic Underground, and therefore he is pointing out that his and our beliefs are not just best for minority and oppressed groups, and we need to convince everyone of that fact, without exclusion." If there were more room, you might add "Once we show those pickup driving Confederate Flag wavers that we are NOT trying to exclude them, but are trying to include everyone, we will be one step closer to reality that the Democratic Party claims to espouse."

[Skinner]

5. I kinda thought that option #2 covered that.

Dean understands that, in order to be competitive, our party must appeal to disaffected southern whites who can gain from Democratic policies.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

25. Unless You Are Literally Flying Or Displaying The Confederate Flag

and you were a southerner wouldn't you feel you were being patronized?

[Skinner]

32. I tend to take everything politicians say with a grain of salt.

Particularly during campaign season. So I'm not really the best person to ask about how this would make me feel. Particularly becasue I have never lived in the south and don't know that much about the people there other than the stereotypes which the media feeds me. I have some friends and a brother who live in the South. They're more conservative than I am, but none of them flies the Confederate flag and they're not moved by the controversy over it.

I think some people will feel patronized, and others won't. I alsao think this is a risk for Dean, but it might work. If it is a strategy, it is a risky one, and I doubt anyone knows how it will work.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

44. I Have Lived In Florida Since I Was A Little Boy (1970)

I really don't see too many confederate flags.....

I was driving around Orlando last night and didn't see one....


I am going to a sports bar to watch the Dolphins play the Colts this afternoon.... Not Nascar folks but just mostly a bunch of everyday southern guys with their wives or girlfriends....

I doubt I will see the flag today.....

I haven't seen it in months... The last time I saw it a guy was flying it in front of his home... What disturbed me was the fact that I knew it was an integrated working class neighborhood and his neighbors were very likely offended...

By the way you are a pleasure to talk to....

[Skinner]

45. Thanks.

I am not surprised by your experience in the South. I visit my brother in North Carolina frequently, and I rarely see confederate flags.

When he lived in Chapel Hill, I never saw confederate flags. Now he's in Greenville, and I have seen them, but rarely.

[Eloriel]

64. I see plenty of them in rural Georgia

Not all that far from Atlanta where, someone else reported in another thread, they see a lot of them.

I'd RATHER see them on someone's car than flying from the porch. Flying from the porch, or a flagpole in the front yard is BAD news. So bad I don't even like driving by the house. On a pickup -- it's a toss up.

The South is not monolithic. So it's not at all surprising that people have different experiences in Orlanda than they would in the FL panhandle, or here in rural Georgia, versus Atlanta, Carolina college towns, etc., etc.

There's KKK in my rural area. And I moved here from Stone Mountain, where there was also KKK. Shocked the hell outta me our first year there (1986) when we saw their annual meeting sign out by the side of the road near the village of Stone Mountain. Around this time, someone who managed some fast food restaurants in that area told me no way he could put a black person in as manager in those restaurants. I said to him, "But you're not a racist." He said, "No, I'm not. But they get death threats their very first day on the job." I'll say again: this is close-in suburban Atlanta.

I don't know if or how much things have improved since then. It's not something you can go ask about (tho I imagine the Southern Poverty Law Center has the info).

My point is that for the South, the degree of racism is absolutely all over the board. No KKKers are going to be voting for Dean or any other non-Dixiecrat Dem anyway. But between the KKK and people like me, fall every possible attitude and distinction possible. It's a continuum scale. There are SOME of them who Dean absolutely WILL appeal to. People here may be less well-educated (I'm speaking of MY area, where we have a huge problem), but they're NOT dumb. You give them a populist message that shows that you understand something about their lives, and don't look down on them, and their interest will be piqued.

BTW, I don't find Dean's comments condescending in the least. If what he said is condescending, exactly how should he change it to make it NOT condescending?

Eloriel

[ulysses]

74. yup.

My point is that for the South, the degree of racism is absolutely all over the board. No KKKers are going to be voting for Dean or any other non-Dixiecrat Dem anyway. But between the KKK and people like me, fall every possible attitude and distinction possible. It's a continuum scale. There are SOME of them who Dean absolutely WILL appeal to. People here may be less well-educated (I'm speaking of MY area, where we have a huge problem), but they're NOT dumb. You give them a populist message that shows that you understand something about their lives, and don't look down on them, and their interest will be piqued.

:thumbsup:

[CWebster]

77. Also that they are included

Part of recent party strategy is to pander to a professional middle-class which excludes working class issues as well as minorities and Union "special interests".

[CWebster]

75. Florida

is populated with a lot of Northerners--snowbirds.

[tsipple]

7. Given Today's Events in Iraq...

...I'm wondering whether the pro-war Democrats should just be disqualified. ;( ;( :-(

Kind of put things in perspective for me again. My heart aches.

[WillyBrandt]

8. That will take care of itself

If we nominate a pro-Iraq War Democrat (Clark is NOT one of those), then we will lose the general, and deservedly so.

[Gin]

13. If my tax dollars can fund CBN and the Moonies...then Dean can bring

these folks with the confederate flag under our umbrella..

The umbrella is huge..with lots of groups I don't like...but the end justifyes the means....get Bush the hell out of office.

[ulysses]

9. other

Economic class is colorblind, but the GOP has spend years triangulating working class whites against working class minorities to the detriment of everyone except the GOP itself. I think Dean recongnizes that. I hope he does, anyway, that that this isn't just pandering.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

63. Have You Read The Populist Moment?

It was racial tensionss that ultimately destroyed the late nineteenth century populistt movement....

[ulysses]

71. no, but I'm aware of the history. n/t

[birdman]

10. I like Dean but he scares me sometimes

I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and assume
that he realizes that he (and Dems in general) might
find some votes among the NASCAR crowd.


But, dammit, Howard, couldn't you have said NASCAR instead
of confederate flag ?

[Skinner]

16. Interesting point. NASCAR might have fit.

I do wonder, though. If Dean had said "NASCAR" then there would have been no controversy, and no story. Is it possible that Dean actually realized that saying "confederate flag" was going to give this story some legs?

I also wonder -- if he said "NASCAR" would he have been easily ignored by the very people he is trying to attract? By going all the way and saying "confederate flag" and taking the heat for it, does he show that he is "for real" rather than just pandering? Does this give him more credibility to the people he is trying to attract?

(My apologies for discussing this in obvious stereotypes. But this entire topic, IMO, is about stereotypes.)

[NashVegas]

20. NASCAR

That's just a meaningless term for me. The popularity of NASCAR (or non-popularity, as was proven IMO by the nearly-instant shuttering of the nascent NASCAR Cafe in Nashville) is and has been purely marketing driven. NASCAR and its advertisers have been throwing money at TV to carry the races, just as they've been throwing money at munis to build the speedways.

The phenomenon did *not* come from a bottom-up groundswell, unlike the confederate flag which in no way are we going to see advertised as a product.

IMO, Dean specifically using the flag is a way (especially thanks to the dust-up) to directly identify a specific group of people that we who don't raise the Stars & Bars can picture in our minds, and those who do raise it can go 'hey, that's me.'

Besides, the two families I know who do attend NASCAR most assuredly don't have Confederate flags on their antenae.

His statements are, again, IMO, the anti-Lee Atwater strategy. When Bush I put those Willie Horton ads on TV, it was so a group of people would go "not like me" and vote against his opponent, Dukakis. It was done specifically to divide people and it has poisoned American politics.

on edit:

The Dems are not going to get the Southern (white) vote by giving them something to vote against in George Bush, they are going to get the vote by giving these people something to vote for.

[ForestsBeatBushes]

40. Thank you, Skinner, for your reply in the Admin Forum.

Only A Pawn In Their Game
by Bob Dylan


A South politician preaches to the poor white man
"You got more than blacks, don't complain
You're better than them, you been born with white skin" they explain
And the Negro's name
Is used it is plain
For the politician's gain
As he rises to fame
And the poor white remains
On the caboose of the train
But it ain't him to blame
He's only a pawn in their game.

The deputy sheriffs, the soldiers, the governors get paid
And the marshals and cops get the same
But the poor white man's used in the hands of them all like a tool
He's taught in his school
From the start by the rule
That the laws are with him
To protect his white skin
To keep up his hate
So he never thinks straight
'Bout the shape that he's in
But it ain't him to blame
He's only a pawn in their game.

From the powerty shacks, he looks from the cracks to the tracks
And the hoof beats pound in his brain
And he's taught how to walk in a pack
Shoot in the back
With his fist in a clinch
To hang and to lynch
To hide 'neath the hood
To kill with no pain
Like a dog on a chain
He ain't got no name
But it ain't him to blame
He's only a pawn in their game.


Perhaps Dean 'gets' the above?

[Skinner]

46. You're welcome. (nt)

[birdman]

42. I expect a close election

and the "border" states that went Pubbie last time could be key
(WV, TN, AR). Dean is on the money to think it's important that
the party get some of those white male votes that they didn't get
last time. I just think it's the wrong image to invoke.

And you're right that this topic is about sterotypes but I'm not
sure that the guy who works in a Home Depot in TN and is concerned
about his family's health benefits and and his kids education and
just might vote Dem wants to be classified with the confederate flag wavers.

I do have to laugh at the thought of a bumper sticker reading :

Redneck Goobers for Dean

But it doesn't really work for me.

[blm]

139. That's where Clark and Kerry have an advantage.

Many of those Southern states electorates are dominated by military and retired military personnel and their families. I think they intend, along with guys like Max Cleland, to expose Bush's failures in military strategy and with the wellbeing of those personnel.

[MGKrebs]

49. One has to assume that, since he has used

this line repeatedly, it is not an off the cuff remark, therefore it has been thought out regarding it's potential impact.

I do not think that the campaign would intentionally say something that they thought would bring a lot of uneccessary criticism, but then again, their track record shows that they do not avoid difficult issues either.

"Confederate flag in a pickup" is a pretty typical sight here in Georgia, even in Atlanta. We can read a lot or a little into that image. But it does not have to mean any more (or less) than ' corn grower in Kansas", or " Cub fan in Chicago", or "senior citizen in Florida". It is just a group that needs Democratic help, just like everybody else.

[mmonk]

11. I voted honest gaffe

based on an assumption about people from the south.

[WillyBrandt]

12. Dean has said this a hundred times

and it's well intentioned, but just won't work

[Darranar]

14. None of these options accurately describe my position...

I think the statement was stupid, but the sentiment - of wanting to campaign to Southern whites on an economic platform instead of a social one - makes sense.

What teh Dems SHOULD NOT do, however, is adopt a "Southern Strategy" to appeal to racists in the South. Perhaps gun control should be pushed a little less, but the Confederate flag should go from government buildings. Racism should not be tolerated.

[mmonk]

21. I agree

that's a divide and conquer strategy (more suited to Republicans).

[Classical_Liberal]

29. And what does the President have to do with what flag flies

on a states buildings. Nadda! Why the hell let the republicans wedge us on this. Let's wedge them.

[mmonk]

39. Yes wedge the republicans

[qanda]

15. I'm Black and I honestly don't know!

I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt and wait for an explanation of his comments before I go off the deep end.

[Eloriel]

50. Here's your explanation of his comments

From his stump speech and this particular quote from the DNC Winter Meeting:

"I intend to talk about race in this election in the south because the Republicans have been talking about it since 1968 in order to divide us. And I'm going to bring us together, because you know what? White folks in the south who drive pickups trucks with confederate flags decals in the back ought to be voting with us and not them, because their kids don't have health insurance either and their kids need better schools too." (big applause)


Eloriel

[jody]

17. Dean and all Dem candidates are under constant attack by

the biased right wing media. I expect them to make statements that would be rephrased upon reflection. Unfortunately, they don't have the luxury of AWOL in rewriting history with such statements as "Mission Accomplished".

[E Pluribus Unum]

28. I could not disagree more.

Suppose Trent Lot said those same words. The people on
this board would be going nuts. You can't have it both ways.

[jody]

31. Your bias is showing. Reread what I said.

:hi:

[MGKrebs]

53. First of all, they are not analagous, because

there is a context. Lott had a history of comments like that, Dean does not.

Secondly, "hypocrisy" cannot be an all or nothing, totally black or white issue. You seem to imply that just because we once criticised someone for an insensitive comment, we cannot ever again defend a perceived insensitive comment. It's nuanced, there are gray areas, it's about intent, and about perceptions. These are not clear cut right or wrong situations.

[DemBones DemBones]

51. But Dean has said this over and over again, according to his

supporters. Apparently, it's a regular theme of his. Certainly, he's said it twice, according to published reports, once in February, once the other day. There was a lot of time between February and now to reflect and rephrase.

(I do wonder why, if he says this "all the time," as supporters assert, it's only been reported twice.)

[madfloridian]

94. Yes, he has frequently said this.

I have heard him say it a lot. We follow his appearances on various shows and share tapes among our group.

Yes, he has said this often. Why it is being jumped on now? Speculation: It is right after Jesse Jackson, Jr. came out with his support.

[Armstead]

18. The rest of what he said is the oppposite of that

The entire statement that Dean has made in that contest explains it, and neitralizes the implicit racism of that particular phrase.

He basically was saying he wants to move beyond the racial divisions and UNITE people based on their common economic interests. That makes perfect sense, as it is a direct frontal assault on the GOP's politics of division.

In hindsight, he probably should have left out the word "Confederate." But that is more a problem with the nature of modern politics and media. A candidate can't say anything longer than three words, because any phrase can be taken out of context. Therefore no one says anything.

One would e4xpect the media and GOP to do that. But I think it is shameful that other Democratic candidates are doing the same thing in attacking him....It probably is why Bush will win the presidency next year.

[Eloriel]

70. BINGO!!!

In the running for the best comprehension and understanding of what Dean said and what his intent is.

He basically was saying he wants to move beyond the racial divisions and UNITE people based on their common economic interests. That makes perfect sense, as it is a direct frontal assault on the GOP's politics of division.

Thank you.

Eloriel

[Cooley Hurd]

19. "Confederate Flag!!" Booga Booga!

There... I said it. Sorry for being such a racist... :eyes:

[emcglynn]

24. Feels funny rubbing up against the pleebs don it

Stirring the pot of populism... its about fucking time. Maybe it is about communicating with the people you feel so god damn superior to. It is not about condoning racism, it is about dialogue. Its class warfare stupid. The Republicans at least get it.

[OKNancy]

22. Gaffe. Dean is not a racist

and I don't believe he has a racist bone in his body, HOWEVER if you shoot from the hip, sometimes you are going to hit your own foot.

[Robb]

61. Well put

At worst, this just reflects on a candidate and staff that may not be particularly in touch with this issue.

However, it may be a deal-killer. :shrug:

[IndianaGreen]

23. I wouldn't be surprised if The Des Moines Register used selected quotes

Dean has spoken before of something liberals are quite aware of, that many people (including Southern and Border States white workers) vote against their class interests. What Dean said in his DNC appearance is what he has been saying all alone, that the Democratic message does resonate but because of some wedge issues it fails to bring people to vote Democratic.

An anecdote would be my sister, who has lived in Southern Kentucky for years. She lives in a county where the biggest cash crop is pot. The people native to that county love their dogs, love their guns, hate the feds, hate taxes, and don't care what you do in the privacy of your home as long as you don't rub their noses on it. They are generally religious, although most of them are not regular "church goers," and they also know that the war in Iraq is for oil, that Bush is a fraud, and they would like to have decent schools, health insurance, and JOBS, JOBS, JOBS!

[AP]

26. other: plausibly deniable appeal to libertarians/RW'ers

He's trying to give clues to white people who are not exactly racists, but who are dumb about race. I.e., the sort of netizens -- angry white men -- you see around here who don't understand issues of race, gender, tax, etc., and whose politics are a hodge-podge of liberalism and conservativism best described as libertarianism and subborn apathy.

I think if you read all the people saying, "I'll give him the benefit of the doubt", you see how that works.

[mjv135]

27. Sharpton

is gonna have a ball with this one!

[Classical_Liberal]

30. Only if he does well in a Southern State

which isn't looking to good.

[tsipple]

33. Not a Gaffe

Dean has been saying this stuff for months in many parts of the country. To big applause.

John Kerry and Richard Gephardt are the only ones feigning indignation because, well, given their recent votes what else have they got?

This is a life-or-death election. I'm voting for the doctor.

[emcglynn]

35. Yes I watched the Dukes of Hazzard

And I am still crazy about Daisy Duke.

[janekat]

135. You think they're "feigning" indignation?

I like to think that any Dem leader has some concerns about how their black constituents feel. Dean made a mistake with the comment he made IMO - whether it was meant to be racist - or just a gaffe. He has lost a good number of black votes I'm sure - with those comments. I'm from the South and if you're a Dem. you just don't bring up the Confederate flag UNLESS it is to express your displeasure with it.

[JVS]

34. Dean intended #2 I am sure. But the idea itself is faulty.

There are better states for us to pick up than targeting the entire "South". NH, OH, WV. MO and FL are actually states that we could win. WI, IA, PA, MN and MI are states that we need to work hard to keep in our column. Perhaps the statement was a tactic for the primaries where states of the Deep South have disproportianal power. Something like this means that Conservatives who like to vote in the Dem primaries (and there should be a lot of them this year since they don't need to vote in Rep primaries) will see Dean as an acceptable opposition to W and choose him.

[CWebster]

36. The sentiment is conveyed through

what can be considered a rather blunt shorthand.

Some take issue with the shorthand rather than the truth of the sentiment.

[Zynx]

38. Those who are making a big deal about this are losing perspective.

"White folks in the South who drive pickup trucks with Confederate flag decals on the back ought to be voting with us, and not (Republicans), because their kids don't have health insurance either, and their kids need better schools too."

I don't see a single thing wrong with this statement. You guys really need to lighten up.

[chimpymustgo]

43. Excuses, excuses. Does the buck slow down anywhere near Dean?

Dean made yet another shoot from the lip, badly worded statement.

[mandyky]

112. What buck?

Dean supporters seem to know exactly what he meant and have given the bashers the quote from the DNC winter meeting, but the bashers would rather promote the hard feelings between camps as well as between southern whites (who might be racist) and the Dem party. If the white southerners vote Democratic again it will break the GOP's southern strategy, if not at least Dean tried.

[mjv135]

41. Statement

I think it was a rediculus statement to make. There are a LOT of people out there that feel "Confederate flag on their pickups" might just as well have been "Swasstika flags on their Volkswagons". Did he forget why the NAACP is boycotting S.C.?

[psychopomp]

47. He meant he wants their *votes*

I do not think that he meant that he wants to represent their views concerning the display of the flag or some racist agenda. That was my take on it; fwiw, I am not white.

I am, though, of the persuasion that Dean can use this attention to increase understanding and open conversation on this broader, divisive issue of outreach to and inclusion of working-class, often prejudiced whites. With the rifts so great in the country today, it would be a heroic move if he could lower the general tone of antagonism so evident today. It will be hard to do so because he has lost some credibility with African Americans and the Stars and Bars types may not be ready to commit to him.

[mmonk]

52. true

though it seems like divide and conquer and is a little condescending to a whole region and you're right, he runs losing instead of gaining votes. The area is diverse in population (African American, Hispanic, as well as caucasian). It could offend alot of people.

[CWebster]

56. Generally, I ignore criticism of Dean from Clark supporters

who most likely have an agenda and are barely restraining their impulse to jump up and down with glee over any inroads to smear Dean.

[mmonk]

57. Then you're reading it wrong.

[CWebster]

54. Why has he lost credibility?

Because of Sharpton's tantrum after Jesse Jr announced his endorsement of Dean?

It sounds like some of Dean's Democratic rivals for the nomination are trying to get some mileage by making an issue where none exists. Dean has been making this statement since the start.

Why else this now?

[mmonk]

62. Because it was stupid?

[Nay]

58. That was my first thought, too. He wants their votes, and does

not especially want to represent their views. As a person who was born in Fla. and has lived in the South forever, I remember being dumbfounded when I really started to understand the whole Confederate flag/Civil War/racism thing. I cannot fault someone who has lived in the North or West all their lives for not understanding this dynamic. How do you explain to someone that there are lots of white people in the South who still think they were on the right side in the Civil War? And that it was, and still is, an uphill battle with these folks to get them to treat people of color and women as real human beings?

I am white, psychpomp, and it would make you cringe to hear the things that have been said to me in the South by whites who assumed that because I was white, I agreed with their racist views. It still happens to me today. It's one reason I don't socialize much.

[mmonk]

67. Call me jaded but

I don't see rascism ending at the Mason Dixon line. I remember riots in non southern cities during integration as well as children in Boston having to go to school under protection of national guard troops. He shouldn't have said it nor should he want to be associated with rascists. There are other ways to appeal to poorer southern whites who may have been laid off recently. It appears that he thinks the race issue is a winner though I don't think he thinks that way.

[welshTerrier2]

55. We are killing ourselves.

Far too much time is being sucked up with symbolism ... and it's not that symbolism doesn't have a major effect on political outcomes ... it does ...

Dean makes an appeal to rednecks ... well, fine ... the democrats really do need to make inroads in the South ...

Sharpton talks about registering millions of blacks to drive bush from office ... that's great ... we need blacks to turn out for the democrats in huge numbers ...

It's not that these issues are unimportant ...

But we are blinded by these symbols ... of course, blacks will see this remark as being insensitive ... but that is just not the point ... do you really believe Howard Dean would not be a friend to blacks if he is elected? i'm not a Dean supporter, btw ...

Carville is right !!! We need to lift our discourse if we want to win ... we are acting like little children tattle-taling on each other every time some little infraction of the rules occurs ...

The message Democrats are putting out to the great sleeping public is that our only messages have to do with bickering among ourselves ... I've seen all the televised debates ... I've been very impressed with much of the oratory ... Positions taken by the candidates on a wide array of issues have been very well thought through ... And the candidates themselves have grown stronger with the passage of time ...

But, outside of a handful or two of policy wonks, the American people are not hearing our messengers ... except when there's coverage of "Dean agreed with Gingrich" or "Clark isn't really a Democrat" or "Kerry is republican-lite" ...

And don't just blame the media for this ... they are indeed part of the problem ... trust me, they are not going to show Kucinich's position on single payer healthcare on the news ... but the blame extends well beyond the media ... the American people relate to these campaigns like a worldwide wrestling match ... who got in the last good jab ... they are ignorant of the issues and for the most part, are uninterested in learning the details they need to participate in a democracy ...

But I save my greatest criticism for those who do know the issues ... for those who are most focussed on the details ... and many of these people are right here on DU ... WE CANNOT CONTINUE THIS CHILDISH BICKERING OVER NONSENSE ... people who understand the issues and who take the time to participate in political discourse should know better ...

Let's get back to talking about how our candidates can address the major issues of the day ... instead of focussing on the inflammatory Confederate flag statement, let's talk about a "Southern strategy" ... How can Democrats make inroads in the South? How can Democrats register and appeal to more blacks? That's the issue ... Putting the focus on whether Dean "sold out" to get votes is not going to help us win the South ...

We need to move away from horseracing analysis and get back to developing a platform that will enable not just our Presidential nominee to win, but our Congressional candidates as well ...

I, for one, did not participate in this poll.

[Blue_Roses]

59. Dean already has a disadvantage being from the north

when making these comments. I have lived in the south all my life and believe me, those who do wave their confederate flags, in their cars, houses yards, already have a vendetta with those who are from the north. So, I don't see how this will help. To them it looks as if he is making fun of their ignorance--which I believe IS flat out bigotry and ignorance if you continue to use this flag for a symbol that is long gone.

I know alot of us in the south are ready for a progressive President. One who will move us past these issues. One who will give those who wave the confederate flag something to think about. One who will bring something to the table that will make the "flag bearers" included and not belittled (they are already insecure, for the most part). It's kind of like that old saying, "I can talk bad about my family, but you better not." Especially, if you are looked at as an outsider.

MY friends and I do laugh about the deer antlers on the hood of the Ford trucks and the rifles hanging behind the in the back window behind the seat. Many are hunters and redneck from head to toe. Statements like this only give them more ammo as to why they like Bush.

There are many wonderful, POSITIVE, things to pull from the south if you want to promote it or use it in an agenda, however, I don't think these kind of comments will not help him in the south.

I like Dean, but I cringed when I heard this. He is such a great voice for the Democratic party and we need his fire, but he needs to know that he has 2 strikes already with these people. 1) for being a Democrat and 2) being from the north.

[mzmolly]

86. This is the only argument I've heard against using such statements

that makes any sense at all.

[DrFunkenstein]

60. He Mispoke, But I Wouldn't Call It An "Honest Gaffe"

I would call it ignorant and a complete inability to register the effects that your words will have on people - especially on an extremely delicate matter like this. The fact that the candidates already went through a round of debating the Confederate symbol, and that Dean has been saying this insulting crap for months only makes matter worse.

[Classical_Liberal]

68. It wasn't a gaff. It was brilliant

He didn't debate confederate symbols. He only said those voters need good jobs, good schools and health insurance for their puppies, but then you knew that.

[DrFunkenstein]

113. Nazis Need Puppies Too?

You are right that he didn't debate the symbols. But he should have - with his campaign before he spoke. The "gaffe" was that he shouldn't have brought it up at all. He could have said "gun racks" or some other signifier of redneckhood. He didn't. Hence, the fool.

[Classical_Liberal]

118. It isn't a gaff until it polls bad

You like one of the preferred new republican endorced candidates as I recall.

[madfloridian]

69. Dean is defining the flag issue this year. GOP did it last year.

Who won the elections? They made it their issue, and they pushed and pushed. The people did not even realize who was doing it to them.

They forced out people to defend the flag who ordinarily would not even bother to think about the "flag" at all. People were waving the flag who would never have done so usually.

They made it an issue, and THEY defined it the way they wanted to define it. They won.

Dean takes chances. I think a candidate must take chances to win this time. Here we all are at our computers just taking on the issue with no risk to us.

He is out on the firing line. He took a risk, and I say bless him.

I still hurt from the phone calls last year begging our senators to take a stand on Iraq, stop Bush from going there. I hurt inside when I think of the coldness I experienced from their offices. "Don't you want to be safe?" they said?

Speak out, Dr. Dean, take your chances. You have nothing to lose.

[mmonk]

73. I respectfully disagree.

He has alot to lose.

[madfloridian]

79. Not really.

Everyone knows about the people who have the bumper stickers of the flag, but many do not realize they are not all racists. Some do that to be a good old boy. Nobody much talks about it, they just assume they will vote Republican. Trouble is they are hurting like the rest of the country.

Someone has to point this out to them.

Dean has nothing to lose in the South, because he has not made a lot of headway in the South. I know he has not even been to Florida, not sure what other states. He has a large support base in Florida, with hundreds in his Tampa to Orlando organizations. I don't know about where he stands in the states like GA,SC,AL, etc. Florida is just behind NY, CA, WA, and TX in the number of known supporters.

No, there is not that much to lose. There is a lot to gain by opening up the topic.

[mmonk]

99. I don't think he was opening up the topic

but trying to make a connection with southern voters to be competitive. I think he was wanting to connect with us, especially the outdoorsman who owns guns, and is leary of gun legislation. He also wanted to connect with the laid off factory worker. He was using images that comes to ones mind automatically. However, it was a poor choice and I do think it will cost him unless he smoothes it over.

[Mairead]

72. It reflected national racism, not (I don't think) a personal racism

But it was stupid.

He would never have been so stupid (I hope!) as to say "I still want to be the candidate for guys who wear sheets or Nazi kit. We can't beat George Bush unless we appeal to a broad cross-section of Democrats.".

But his share of the national racism obscured for him that, for many Black people, the 'stars and bars' really do symbolise the attempt by the wealthy elite in the South to keep Black people enslaved and legally sub-human.

I wouldn't expect Jews to feel okay about the swastika just because it was originally an innocent, very old Indian sun-wheel symbol, devoid of connection to the death camps. Why should Black people be expected to feel okay about the Confederate flag?

[Classical_Liberal]

78. No it wasn't stupid

He didn't endorse the symbol for one. There are different degrees of racism. Most people attached to this symbol are not KKK members. Furthermore he wasn't appealing to thier love of this flag but their need for good jobs and health care.

If you allow the repulicans to wedge on this SYMBOL then the blacks get the wealthy elite they claim to hate, and not just the stupid fricking SYMBOL of the wealthy elite, which will exist whether Dean tries to wedge these voters away from the repukes or not.

[mmonk]

80. The strategy may make logic

but I still think it was stupid. You can make a populist appeal in other ways. Now look at the confusion, distrust, and suddenly, he becomes an issue as to what he meant. Think what kind of threads would appear here at DU had a republican did it on a national campaign.

[Classical_Liberal]

119. I don't think it was a populist appeal

It was an observation about how to diarm a repuke populist appeal. Dean has a good track record, and is in the number 1 position in terms of the polls.

[Mairead]

83. It wasn't stupid? What are the alternatives, then?

Ignorant? Calculating? Are there any others?

[Classical_Liberal]

121. Smart and intuitive.

Time will tell, and he polling better than your guy despite your frequent over reaction to ever perceived gaff.

[Mairead]

128. Check your facts.

[w4rma]

90. Slavery wasn't the only (nor, IMHO, the primary) reason for the Civil War.

IMHO, the primary reason was Republican economic policy which favored North-Eastern big buisnesses and the monopolies/oligopolies of the time (Standard Oil, Railroad tycoons, bankers/moneylenders) over Southern farms and smaller buisnesses. The North-Eastern carpetbaggers who came down to the South to buy up whatever they could at fire-sale prices and rip folks off after the war, didn't help North-South relations either.

That said, yes the Confederate flag was hijacked by the Klu Klux Klan and other racist groups. Yes, the Confederate flag is a symbol of racism to many people. IMHO, it would be best to try and remove this racist and divisive meaning from this flag and replace it with another, such as heritage. Talking about the economic reasons that the Civil War was fought will also help replace that meaning with a more productive one.

[mzmolly]

98. Exactly I hope the Dean campaign will make this statement formally...

:toast:

[Classical_Liberal]

123. I think it would be as fruitless to tell a black that the CSA flag

is just about heritage as it is to tell some of these white voters it isn't. Republicans had only existed less then five years when the CW happened, and they were kind of a one issue party on the expansion of slavery. They didn't have much of an economic policy. Lincoln certainly didn't represent industrial interest coming from rural illinois. He made several anticorporate anti robber baron statements. Also the plantation owners weren't small farmers. I think the Southerners were manipulated on this wedge issue then as they are today. I guess we are on a point of departure over this.

[chimpymustgo]

129. Slavery WAS the primary reason for the Civil War.

All the economic issues boil down to the Southern agrarian economy, which was built on, and flourished with the use of FREE labor, provided by the bondage of human beings.

Period.

[Zomby Woof]

76. pure strategy

As the saying goes, in politics nothing happens by accident. If anything matters as much as race - America's most intractable of problems - it is class. Dean knows this, and the risks inherent in populist rhetoric.

[xray s]

81. Read about C.P. Ellis in Studs Terkel's 'American Dreams'

Ellis was a Grand Cyclops in the KKK that eventually realized his hate was wrong and being used by the power elite in the south to keep both blacks and poor whites under control.

He eventually went on to be a union leader and local rights activist in NC. And he now hears the words of MLK and weeps because he "gets it"

I think that is what Dean is talking about...

[DrFunkenstein]

114. I Loved CP Ellis - But He Renounced

Dean was not asking for a renunciation until this flap began. I saw his old quotes. He doesn't.

[blm]

82. This may surprise some, but, I believe he just misspoke.

But, I think Dean misspeaks too much, coming from an ignorance bred from a certain elitism.

We already have a shoot from the lip type of president, and I don't think this nation needs another one, nor does the rest of the world's leaders appreciate that type of American leader.

Dean seems more ready to launch a talk radio show than be leader of the free world.

[RogueTrooper]

84. Voted for option 2

"Republicans are said to be salivating over the prospect of a Bush-Dean match-up. They shouldn't get carried away. Howard Dean, warns John McClaughry, has been "underestimated throughout his political career. He has an uncanny knack for finding where the political capital is stored and walking off with it." The trick for Dean is to ensure that the ultra-liberal positions he has taken in the primaries, which contradict his sometimes centrist record, don't cripple his ability to reach out to Middle American voters in a general election--should he make it that far. If he does, and then finds a way to zig-zag back toward the center, Howard Dean could be George W. Bush's worst nightmare."

http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/003/073ylkiz.asp

[w4rma]

85. Rep. Jackson, Jr. Praises Dean on Bringing Economic Agenda to the South

Congressman Jesse L. Jackson, Jr. Praises Dean on Bringing Economic Agenda to the South

"I have a dream that one day on the red hills of Georgia the sons of former slaves and the sons of former slaveowners will be able to sit down together at a table of brotherhood."-- Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., March on Washington, August 28, 1963

"White folks in the South who drive pick-up trucks with Confederate flag decals on the back ought to be voting with us because their kids don't have health insurance either, and their kids need better schools too."-- Dr. Howard Dean, DNC Winter meeting, February 21, 2003

Congressman Jesse L. Jackson, Jr., today said, "This year we celebrated the 40th anniversary of Dr. King's famous speech in front of the Lincoln Memorial in 1963. Forty years later, Dr. Howard Dean is reminding us that the great task of uniting the northern black and white urban poor and working class, with the southern black and white rural poor and working class around common economic issues good health care, high quality schools, and affordable housing is the key to wrestling our democracy away from the race-oriented Republican right-wing.

"Democrats were not competitive in the South in 2000, and we have struggled to thrive, and in some instances survive, since Richard Nixon and the Republican Party began using their race-based 'southern strategy' in 1968. The use of race, cultural and social issues have served to distract voters by keeping the focus off of economic issues has been the basic strategy of Bush and the Republicans in the South. That's why they make wedge issues out of prayer in school, the Ten Commandments on public buildings, civil unions, the false allegation that Democrats will take away hunters' gun rights, choice for women, the controversy of having the words 'under God' in the Pledge of Allegiance, and the Confederate Flag. Lest we forget, the Confederate Flag is the Democratic Party's historic contribution to the South, and current Democratic candidates have not been able to figure out how to come to grips with their own historic symbol.

"Normally, rather than directly confronting poor and working class white southerners with a strong economic agenda, Democrats have tried to imitate Republicans on many of these social issues. It is good that we have a candidate offering hope to the South with an economic agenda. It is Dr. Dean who is reminding us that the combination of poor and working class blacks and whites, north and south, united in coalition around a common economic agenda of jobs, health care, education and housing will constitute a winning strategy in 2004," concluded Cong. Jackson.

Posted by Mathew Gross at 07:12 PM
http://blog.deanforamerica.com/archives/002084.html
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=631124

Did these SOUTHERN, BLACK, Baptists have a problem with Dean's remarks?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=108&topic_id=73335

[Lefty48197]

88. He's trying to attract Republican votes

obviously.

[VermontDem2004]

89. Wth, I never knew of Dean's comments till this post but HOW WERE THEY....

RACIST???!!!!!!??????? He basically said he wants their vote, who doesn't want every vote they can get? He is basically telling the truth "White folks in the South who drive pickup trucks with Confederate flag decals on the back ought to be voting with us, and not (Republicans), because their kids don't have health insurance either, and their kids need better schools too."

[Mairead]

93. "how were they racist?"

Well, substitute 'who wear sheets over their heads' or 'who proudly wear Nazi paraphernalia' in place of 'who drive...on the back'. See if that doesn't make it more clear.

[Ambassador Hope]

96. Did DK say anything about Clinton and Clark not taking it down

In ark.?

[Mairead]

105. I don't know

On the other hand, I don't think he's said anything about Dean, either, has he?

[DoveTurnedHawk]

116. Despite Your Desperate Attempts to Smear Clark at Every Turn

Please explain how CLARK ever could have done anything about the Arkansas flag, considering how (as you know, since you've condemned his supposed lack of political experience) he was never elected to political office in Arkansas?

DTH

[Forkboy]

146. What the heck does Clark have to do with this?

:shrug:

[Ambassador Hope]

95. Clinton and Clark's state still flys it, do not hear a thing on that

Clinton and Carter flew it at their house. Dean never did. Al Gore's dad flew it proudly, deans dad would never do that.

[OKNancy]

102. Huh?

[madfloridian]

97. Question: Why is this just an issue now? Why not before?

Those of us who support him know he has said this many times. How many? I know someone will say prove it. I have heard him say it many times. If you want proof, view the videos at the website, I guess.

Why is it an issue NOW....just when Jesse Jackson, Jr. gives him his support.

No one paid much attention before.

[dsc]

100. You left out my choice

A dishonest cut and paste job by a reporter that was repeated by desperate campaigns. I find it utterly impossible to believe that the only two things he said in that interview is what the reporter quoted. As pointed out, endlessly, Dean has used this before and has done so with the context your second quote provides. I find it very difficult to believe he didn't do so in that interview. I take issue with the idea that quote one and quote two are similar. They aren't. The first is designed to make it sound like he wants them to vote for him because of the Confederate flag the second makes clear it is despite it.

[doubles]

101. Shocking to see how many DUers embrace this flag

64% as of this writing. I hope if a Republican says the same thing, you don't cry racism. Al Sharpton was correct and someday I hope this party wakes up before we loose the black vote. Don't take us for granted!

[janekat]

133. I agree - I'm in shock that this many people agree think it's ok

Of course, there's not really enough choices on that poll. I'd like to think that many people would be in between the two answers. Many think that it was an insensitive comment for him to have made but don't think he's an out and out racist. There' really not many options for that.

[Darth_Kitten]

103. Not the best statement from him......

maybe he was trying to be inclusive? :shrug: Like, we have to include people (including those in pickup trucks waving confederate flags).
Though I really think the democratic party needs to cater more to it's BASE rather than unreliable voters such as rural southern voters, so-called "independents" or one-issue "what's in it for me and me alone?" Reagan democrats.

Women, gays, minorities, environmentalists, middle and lower middle class males, etc. :)

just my little say. :)

[FrenchieCat]

104. Dean was pandering for votes...

because that is all that is important to him.

Dean is pandering to the very people asking us to get over winning the 2000 election when they didn't get over losing the civil war.

[SahaleArm]

107. Plain and simple pandering.

Notice he condemned the flag after being criticized.

[janekat]

136. thereby losing the very people he was trying to win over. Brilliant!

In addition, he suceeded in putting the Democratic Party into turmoil.

[Terwilliger]

106. I would agree with #2, but only that it was a strategy...

not that it was correct

[NewYorkerfromMass]

152. It's #2 AND #3, so I can't vote

Dean's sincere but also stupid.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

108. I voted in I DON'T KNOW/ NOT SURE

but being one that feels we cry PC at the expense of examining LANGUAGE and the power it has, I am bothered by the use of that symbol to appeal to anyone.

All the conversations justifying what he meant or may have meant don't comfort me at all.

[dsc]

109. So we should write off those voters for ever

There are many people with those flags on their vehicles that have views similar to those of Molly Ivins (note I said similar not the same). Ivins is a self described populist who certainly supports civil rights but is far more interested in economic issues. Any fair reading of her writing says as much. We lose a lot of these people's votes for two reasons. One is that we dismiss these people as racist when they often aren't and two is that there isn't enough of a percieved difference on the economics. Dean is trying to do what Huey Long did. I think that is a good thing.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

110. I don't think we need to write off those voters

Did he need to use a symbol of hatred to get their attention?

[dsc]

111. Like it or not

for some of them it really isn't. Many of these people had ancestors die under that flag and consider it history. While I certainly don't, and Dean certainly doesn't, I do think motive matters here to some extent. I know first hand of progressive people in the South who do think the flag symbolizes history and not racism.

[DrFunkenstein]

115. It's About A Traditional Way Of Life

<>

[SahaleArm]

122. wedge issue claim.

After commenting on the confederate flag and affirmative action I've noticed lots of people telling me to 'let it go' or 'it's only a wedge issue'. If Democrats are willing to rationalize away the confederate flag then we've lost our way. To claim healthcare and the economy are of greater importance than civil rights is digusting. Patrick Henry said it best, 'Give me liberty or give me death'.

[janekat]

138. Apparently, women's issues aren't too much of a concern either

n/t

[billbuckhead]

124. Dean does have a history, It's an "A" from the NRA

8 times Dean was endorsed by the Charlton Heston-Ted Nugent-Grover Norquist-Wayne LaPierre crowd and he never objected.

[MercutioATC]

142. The rating aside, have you actually looked at Dean's "gun" positions?

He supports all current federal gun legislation and supports closing the gunshow loophole. Beyond that, he believes that different states have different gun control needs and that further legislation is best left to them. What do you find objectionable with this?

[Padraig18]

126. I'm pleased that 83% of DU-ers have some common sense!

At *worst*, it was a gaffe... :bounce:

[SahaleArm]

127. What does that mean?

Don't challenge conventional wisdom? I'll call it a gaffe, but I'm still disgusted at the rationalizing of the confederate flag.

[mzmolly]

132. # 2. All the way. Dean has been making this comment since he began

campaigning but in desperation his foes are making a mountain out of a molehill today.

Here is a speech Dean gave in February of 2003 at the DNC. Interestingly his comments were applauded.

"I intend to talk about race during this election in the South because the Republicans have been talking about it since 1968 in order to divide us. And I'm going to bring us together. Because you know what? You know what? White folks in the South who drive pickup trucks with Confederate flag decals in the back ought to be voting with us and not them, because their kids don't have health insurance either and their kids need better schools too." (APPLAUSE) ~ Howard Dean - February 21, 2003


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/onpolitics/transcripts/dean_022103.html

[janekat]

134. Is there another forum here that might be a little bit more Progressive?

anybody know? I don't really feel that this one is for me anymore...

[Forkboy]

147. good grief

:eyes:

[janekat]

148. People here are not into women's rights, civil rights, and gay rights

only the war matters.

[Forkboy]

149. Your right

The Civil Rights/Equality/Privacy Forum and The Health/Education/Social Policy Forum NEVER talk about these things :eyes:

[oxymoron]

137. he "mispoke" again...

when will he learn?

[mzmolly]

140. I gather when he's no longer a front runner.

;)

[CWebster]

143. It is interesting, based on the poll,

that a small, but very vocal, very active (like 24/7) and very aggressive and somewhat politically naive minority attempts to create an issue where one does not exist in effort to gain leverage for their own preference. They seek transparent advantage by unsavory means.

[KittyWampus]

150. Your Post Reflects Similar Input Given On Clark

By the way, I abstained in this poll.

[MercutioATC]

144. My problem is with the subject line...

"Racism, Strategy, of Honest Gaffe?"

"Racism" implies...well...racism.

"Strategy" implies that he made the statement for strategic, rather than philosophical, reasons.

"Honest Gaffe" implies that he erred in his statement.

You do explain "Strategy" in the body of the poll, but after reading just the subject line, I felt that all three choices were biased against Dean. Perhaps "Racism, Philosophical Statement, or Honest Gaffe?" would be less objectionable.

[Desertrose]

145. Dunno...but it got him lots of press, didn't it?

Seems like an attention getting device...knowing it was going to raise some eyebrows and some tempers....


Whats the saying abuot no such thing as bad press...or should that be free press...and is that saying still true?


:shrug:
Peace
DR

[Renew Deal]

151. You are right but..

It's not good when you are branded a racist. This is one of the worst things to be labeled as. Rightly or wrongly, this will not help Dean.

[bread_and_roses]

153. I have to ask...

...is there no other way to appeal to "white folks in the south who drive pick-up trucks" than to lean on the Confederate flag, which so many regard as a symbol of slavery and racism? (And to be quite honest, I can't think of any other way it can be regarded because whatever else it may or may not represent, it does represent slavery).

[burr]

154. What was racist about Dean's statement?

Jimmy Carter began his re-election campaign in Tuscumbia, Alabama. Jimmy Carter had been the last Democrat to have won a solid south in 1976...and his objective was to win it again.

At this campaign event Jimmy Carter made the following remarks..."Our region, the Southland, has been through a lot of pain and a lot of change, but we came out all right in the end because of our determination to move ahead and to face our problems. There are still a few in the South, indeed around the country-some I have heard from today-who practice cowardice and who counsel fear and hatred. They marched around the State Capital in Atlanta when I was Governor. They said we ought to be afraid of each other, that whites ought to hate and be afraid of blacks, and that blacks ought to hate and be afraid of whites. And they would prosecute those who worship in a different way from most of us. As a southerner, it makes me angry when I see them with a Confederate battle flag, because I remember Judah P. Benjamin, who was Secretary of State of the Confederacy; he was a Jew. And I remember General Pat Cleburne of Arkansas, who died in battle not far from this spot, and General Beauregard of Lousiana-brave man. Both were Catholics, and so were many others who served under that flag. And sometimes I see the raising of the cross, and I remember that One who was crucified taught us to have faith, to hope, and not to hate but to love one another.

I say these men in white sheets do not understand our region and what it's been through, they do not understand what our country stands for, and they do not understand that the South and all of America must move foward."