Car tax to Californians: How YA Like Me Now? (fire services)

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

Now that we have seen a republican coup manufactured in California to rip the governor's office from a competent although unpopular governor, I thought NOW would be a good time to remind Du'ers (especially those of a more libertarian LESS GOVERNMENT bent) that some TAXES (specifically in California..the CAR TAX) go to desperately needed services not the least of which are firefighters and police as well as the expensive equipment they use.

While nobody in their right mind would ever vote to LET A FIRE RAVAGE the state, THAT in essence is what they voted for on October 7, when they voted to recall Gray Davis in favor of Arnold.

While there are many things that are not right about the manner in which our taxes are used (primarily WEALTHFARE in my book), it should be noted that many many Californians went to the ballot box clear of the fact that the car tax funded local governments for these services.

It is NOT without irony, that the areas where Arnold or his republican anti-tax counter part Tom McCLintock fared best suffered some of the most devastation - San Diego, the inland empire, and the Simi Valley (MC Clintock's district)

[Lindacooks]

1. Exactly

There's a huge disconnect between the reality of paying taxes and understanding what that money accomplishes. My husband was at a meeting of women's advocates last week, and a lobbyist there told them they have to literally enumerate WHAT is being cut as a result of tax cuts. For instance: a police chief in SW Minnesota is telling people that, with the draconian budget cuts in this formerly liberal state, his police force can no longer protect property. That's right - they'll protect people, but unless you have some kind of damage to property that costs more than $5,000, the police can't help you.

We have to pound this message into people's heads. Because they're not getting it on their own.

[DBoon]

8. They won't see it

They just believe government is so inefficient, and filled with slackers, that if "those lazy bureaucrats would just work like the rest of us", there would be no problem.

If you try to get specific, all you will get are anectdotes about a bad experience someone had, or someone who knows someone and "all they do is sleep on the job there".

What do you expect about 20 years of Reagan-nauts attacking government service?

[wtmusic]

2. They'll be the first to go whining to DC

for federal disaster relief.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

3. But they want the federal government to sink so small it could

"drown in a bathtub."

[wtmusic]

S'okay, they just need to print more of those

fancy new $20 bills. Pay for it later.

[Capn Sunshine]

4. They are stretched razor thin

Good point NSMA; the resources here around Simi Valley and Moorpark were just too thin to handle it. THIS is the area that benefits from the car tax money. Or suffers from the lack. They alreday were planning on Closing one of the Jails if the Car Tax gets repealed; how putting criminals on the street earlier is beneficial to society I'll have to ask the Gropinator.

BTW,

WHERE IS THE NEW GOVERNOR? I heard he's in Vegas.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

10. Apparently (according to the LA times) Arnold will be in Washington DC

this week meeting with congressional delegates from California and asking for federal assistance...that is probably good since they all went deaf when Davis asked ..especialy Mr UNITER NOT DIVIDER.

[goddess40]

36. Federal bailout for CA

The Feds should not bail out CA until they pay their fair share of state taxes to help themselves. I have a friend who lives in CA and pays $2200 property taxes on her condo that was purchased for $200,000. If she were in Wisconsin she would be paying between $5000 to $6000 for that same condo. Also, Warren Buffet pays $2000 for his $4 million dollar home in CA. That's how screwy the property taxes are since they passed Resolution 13. Why should other states give CA money through federal bail outs? And why should Bush step in now when he would do nothing when Enron was gouging CA and Davis asked for help? Of course, it helps now that CA has a repuke for governor.

[KharmaTrain]

5. Vherer's Da Gubnator???

My wife asked this?

She then painted the picture of Ahnold in his Superman cape (huge RED S) flying over the fire...opening his huge "swvanz" (her yiddish), putting out the fire and saving the day.

Isn't this what those people voted for????

[DisgustipatedinCA]

9. He's in Vegas

Really. I think it sends the right message.

[salin]

Saturday... In Las Vegas!

http://www.tribnet.com/24hour/entertainment/story/1036966p-7283239c.html

Schwarzenegger appears at Mr. Olympia event in Las Vegas

By CHRISTINA ALMEIDA, Associated Press

LAS VEGAS (October 26, 4:07 a.m. PST) - California Gov.-elect Arnold Schwarzenegger showed he still has a soft spot for body building, popping in unexpectedly at the Mr. Olympia contest to congratulate its winner.

Himself a seven-time Mr. Olympia, Schwarzenegger drew cheers and chants of "Arnold" and "Governator" from the crowd Saturday night at the Mandalay Bay Hotel-Casino.

---------- read the whole thing-------------------------------

Probably couldn't get out of a prior commitment - you know, money and all.

Wonder how many other commitments he has made that will keep him away during state emergencies.

Meanwhile I did a search for Gov Davis... on google (really odd thing is no STATE news sources popped up - but tons of international and a few east coast sources did....)

from the (CA) Globe and Mail News:
Deadly wildfires rage in California

Associated Press

San Diego, Calif. — Wildfires fed by hot Santa Ana winds flared into gigantic waves of flame that devoured entire neighbourhoods, choked skies over Southern California with ash and killed 13 people in the state's deadliest wildfire tragedy in a dozen years.

The blazes triggered a harrowing flight to safety Sunday for hundreds of residents, who had little time to collect cherished possessions before escaping.

snip...

Gov. Gray Davis, who visited the San Bernardino fire on Friday, returned Sunday to announce he was extending the state of emergency to Los Angeles and San Diego counties.

“These are the worst fires that we've faced in California in 10 years,” Mr. Davis said.

Mr. Davis's administration also gave an emergency briefing to governor-elect Arnold Schwarzenegger.


http://www.globeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20031027.wcalif1027/BNStory/International/

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

17. I would love to hear him rail against the car tax now

Nice to know he cares (NOT)

Again, especially Simi Valley, McClintock OWN district...these people are beyond the pale.

[ShaneGR]

6. Uh, Arnold hasn't even taken office yet

You cannot blame Arnold for what is happening during this fire. He isn't even in office. Any blame will be aimed at Davis, or better yet, Bush for sending the National Guard to Iraq.

[Capn Sunshine]

14. I'm not blaming him, just stating my opinion

That he , as gov. -elect, who admittedly knows NOTHING about the mechanics of the office, might at least be in the same time zone during a disaster of major proportions, meeting with the now Governor and seing how to cope with thisand the after effects of which he will be directly responsible for administering.

Not to mention, um , finding the money for....

so excuse me if I seem a little peeved that he's not around but this is NOT a normal circumstance!

[salin]

16. but I am the incoming governor

and I do a feelgood gig in Vegas for Mr Olympia - and NO public appearance in southern California to even demonstrate concern?

Pretty symbolic if you ask me.

[Yavin4]

7. Here's Where The Value of Talk Radio Comes In

The corporate elite uses AM talk radio to propagandize the public. Right wing talk radio's number one job is to convince working and middle class people that all that the government does is take their taxes and give it to people who don't work. This message gets pounded day after day after day.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

11. You are correct

[KharmaTrain]

13. They Do...It's Called Corporate Welfare

Think that upper 1% really work???? Or ever had to???

[Sequoia]

12. And that he nor Chimp could pronounce "Rancho Cucamonga"

the point you bring up makes it more suspicious. I'd say we in Northern Cal better say our prayers and keep a look-out. I'm sorry for all the people down there where I used to live and I prayer no more will die. It's just horrid down there with that infreno. And that "hunter" must've been really stupid to set off a flare in this dry weather. This arson is just another "punishment' from the Thug Gang. Okay Arnie, movie action hero, can you save us now? Didn't think so, and you never will puppet boy.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

15. The hunter to me represents the mindset that voted for Bush/Arnold

A jackass with a gun who thinks he has the biggest balls on his block and to prove it...shoots a poor defenseless animal...but let the notion of REAL DANGER come to him and he panics ..and in an attempt to save his own chickenshit ass....shoots a flare or starts a fire in the midst of dry forest brush and triple digit temperatures (there are varying accounts as to which he did) and burns down the whole city to save his selfish, sorry ass.

[xxqqqzme]

20. is this what happened?

I am in NoCal since last Friday. The only 'fire news' is the biggie stuff not the details as I'm sure U R reading. My daughter e-mailed me what at was like @ the beach - smoke, smell, ash, sky color but no details. When the pendleton fire & San Bernadino mountains fires started a week ago, I told my son 'thank god the santa anas haven't started! 'I shouldn't 'av said that'

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

21. It is what happened in the Ramona fire..the Old Waterman is arson

and the Grand Prix is suspected arson as the Simi Valley fire might be.

A hunter in the Julian area got lost and either shot a flare or started a fire for smoke to call attention to himself ( I heard two different accounts)

[xxqqqzme]

23. thanx

I needed that little bit of detail.

[hunter]

25. Hah!

And yes, I do call myself "hunter," and I eat animals. But I always say "thank you" in the American Indian tradition. (Maybe I sorta hope those chicken, beef, deer, and fish souls get recycled somehow, or maybe that's just my pathetic human excuse for liking meat.)

Meanwhile, I'm considering it highly likely that "God is coming, and She is pissed."

I'm putting all the stuff I don't want broken in bubble wrap. There's a big earthquake coming for sure.

[E Pluribus Unum]

39. Just curious. Do you eat poor defenseless animals?

[catzies]

18. I'm in that tool McClintock's district, and in other ironic news...

...our tool of an Assemblymember, Tony Strickland, had to evacuate his home fleeing the flames.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

19. Has anyone asked him how he likes the fact that the car tax saved

his home? NOW is the time to NAIL THESE BASTARDS with their rhetoric.

[catzies]

30. Yes, absolutely, damn good point NSMA.

I think an LTTE is in order, for starters. And I will bring it up in every conversation I have with co-workers about the fires for another.

[Tikki]

31. I can hear it now...

'ole Tony admonishing those in our district whom have lost property in the fire.
"What Is The Problem, here?"

Didn't you clear the brush around your home?
Don't you have 'adequate' fire insurance?
Didn't you ask your gardener and his wive and kids to come over and fight the fire around your house? Well, then...the maid and her family?

As a final resort I can hear him saying...
'I do not believe that any of the 'truly faithful' lost their homes' in this.....

Hey catzies.....Hi......

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

22. Kick because we had many anti-car tax Du'ers before the recall

I'm dying to hear from them now

[salin]

24. Come on... you know people HATE taxes - but WANT the services

some DUers are no exception to that rule.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

26. I know..where are they when it is time to defend their position?

In the face of the services those taxes fund? Maybe they are out donating their time to fighting fires :evilgrin: but I doubt it.

[Booberdawg]

34. I doubt the greatest percentage of them even understood what the car tax

paid for these services. And I doubt even NOW they know that. Do you suppose the pro-ah-nold media will point that out even now?? NOT!

[nolabels]

27. People never want to admit they need to pay for things they use

Very childish, give me, give me, give me. They think other people should pay for it for them. They want roads, services to support the roads with police and fire departments to keep them open but don't think they should have top pay for them. They don't want to pay for them from Property tax. Sales tax hurts business volume and free trade.

They don't want to pay for it as they use it. They think they are getting stiffed worse than they should when pay high fines for citations. They constantly wine government is the problem but are first in line to try and get help from it.

I guess they think everything comes by way of manna from heaven

[Hammie]

28. All taxes should go to desperately needed services

The sad fact is that in CA the legislature spends general fund money without a great deal of accountability. They tend to give a low priority to things that taxpayer care about most, which in my opinion is police and fire service, and roads and other transportation. Consequently, there are special taxes that are earmarked for these particular uses.

The basic problem is structural, the state gets all the tax money, including local taxes like property tax and then gives some of it back. The local agencies are at the whim of the state legislature. Property tax is a particular problem, because the state keeps more than half. All this info is on the CA state website btw. You can look up how much each county collects in property tax, and how much each is allocated back from the state. The poorest counties do the best, getting back about 50% whereas the richest counties get back more like 30% IIRC. Even worse, is that while property tax is a steady, dependable, revenue stream that is perfect for long term planning by local government, the rebate from the state that cities are forced to depend on is not very steady, it appears that the cities are sort of dependant on the scraps from the state table.

All counties in CA would be better off if they could keep their own property tax. Special interests would never permit this of course because centralized control of spending is how they feather their nests. If the money were controlled by you local government, then individuals would have a bigger say in how the money was spent. As someone who has been to city council meetings, I know that they at least listen, even if things don't always go you way, you have influence at the local level. Only special interests with their high paid lobbiests have any influence at the state level.

[cally]

32. The General Fund spending has much accountability

Every line item is reviewed first by the Agency, then the Department of Finance, then Legislative Analyst and special progams are audited by the Auditor General. This is more accountability than the Federal Government and most other states.

The problem in California is most of the General Fund spending is restricted by law through ill thought out propositions. So the Governor and the Legislature has very little leeway to move spending to the most needed areas.

Finally, the property tax is sent to Sacramento for allocation. This began after Proposition 13 as a way to help the counties and cities. Califonia gave more back to help out. This is what the car tax registration fee is for.

[Clete]

29. ALL California resident LURKERS NEED TO READ THIS POST

to get the straight facts about whom they elected into office instead of our hard working Governor. Also, the turkey idiot Issa, who funded the recall is from the San Diego area too.

[cally]

33. Voting against the car tax

does decimate the local services. I'm surprised at the number of firefighters and equipment on these fires. It seems very low to me. I think it's because we have so cutback on services that we don't have enough to fight a fire of this size.

[AP]

35. The problem with the car tax isn't that people pay for gov't services...

...It's that the car tax collects money in a less regressive manner than is possible.

I'm all for socializing the costs of driving cars among car drivers. However, the car tax is pretty steep, and it requires poor and middle class people whom, for whatever reason, have to buy cars that are expensive to bear a larger tax burden than, say, a super rich guy who choses to buy a used accord.

An annual fee of 20-30 bucks is more than enough for most people.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

37. kick

[peekaloo]

38. kick

:kick: