Religious people and Atheists check in for truce!!!

[Room101]

Look I have an endless arsenal of things I can say about one of these two groups, I won't say Which group I belong to It matters not!

I'm tired of the partisan posts along theological or non-theological lines. It saps the energy out each side, and distracts us from focusing on our common goal of defeating fu#*ing Bush in 2004.

Let us all leave Religion/Atheists debate posts to the people lurking in AOL chat rooms! Or at least after Bush is out of office!
I know it's hard as hell to bit our tongs on this issue, but we must!
Continuing these posts in no way shape or form will help further our common cause.

We must all focus our energy on our common goal of ousting Bush in 2004! DEAN!!!! Lets take back our country!!!

[southernfried]

1. fair enough, I'm in

though I'll continue to turn the other cheek as needed.

[Maple]

2. Are you talking about

the perfectly civilized discussion here last night in answer to a question?

Is there only one topic allowed?

I'm sorry, I didn't know that.

I figured any site that had discussions on farting and yaks wouldn't have a problem with something else outside a political contest that's more than a year away.

Nor do I see what more than a year of talking about it is going to change.

[MoonGod]

3. I've never really engaged in the religious debates...

... I gave that up a long time ago. So... umm... count me in? :)

[Az]

4. This is a political forum

Religion has a bearing on politics. With the religious right supporting the repukes this is undeniable. Having said that, the debate over the existance of god is not relavant to any discussion that will bear any fruit here. The actual core debate between theists and atheists has no place here.

The alienation between the sides has to stop. To my fellow atheists you have to realise that not all theists are cut from the same cloth. Not all are going to try to convert you, silence you, or denounce you. There are liberal theists everywhere ready to help defend the wall. DO NOT ALIENATE THEM.

To my theist friends. Please understand. Atheists rank in numbers somewhere akin to gays and blacks. But where they are going on decades of finding their voice the atheists are still a closeted minority. There are numerous factors that lead to this and they are not all the societies problems. Some issues we have created ourselves. But on the whole it is still a social/politcal disaster to be outed as an atheist in our society. Recent polls have shown that all things being equal being an open atheist would result in the highest number of people voting against a candidate. The US would vote for women, blacks, gays, hispanic, cancer ridden, and a host of others before they would vote for an atheist.

Much of the path that leads one to find themself an atheist removes us from the standard pool of social circles most people find themself in. Our support groups are scattered. Our agenda fractured. In some places it is impossible to find another atheist to commiserate with.

We watch as the wall of seperation is torn asunder. We watch as our tax dollars are turned over to the teaching of what we believe to be a lie. We watch as our hope for a future through medical improvement is put on hold. We are forced to watch as the three largest religions prepare to duke it out. We watch as vocal representitive for some of the religions praise the coming end of the world. We listen to reports of zealots attempting to set off WWIII just to bring the end of the world closer.

Some of us have known little more than scorn and have learned to expect it from theists. Thus some of us strike out. Some of us are angry. We are frustrated and need to make a difference. Sometimes we lose our tempers. To this I can only ask that you turn the other cheek and seek to show us that our fears are not warranted in your case. And from this example we may be able to learn that not all theistic beliefs are a threat to us.

Atheists are here. We are not going to go away. If you as a theist disagree with your vocal brethren then you better speak up. Otherwise they will speak for you. The religious right preports to speak for all things christian. Do not leave it to the atheists to tell them they are wrong. We will fail. Reason cannot defeat fanaticism. The only hope we have is to join together. Liberal theists and atheists. The religious rights numbers grow because they believe nothing opposes them. They are wrong. Let us show them. Together.

[copithorne]

7. Love your post, AZ!

I am a very religious person. I've never mentioned that at DU, but I am more of a religious person than a political person. It's only in these dangerous days that I have become preoccupied with politics.

But I've converted to a number of religions, spent time in monasteries and retreats and so on.

Religious people certainly need to understand that a lot of people are subject to a lot of religious violence. They experience religious violence growing up. They watch it on the news. They experience it in their culture, their schools.

And people get angry about that violence.

Religious people just need to suck it up. Sometimes I see Christians complaining about how unfairly they are treated and how subject to prejudice they are. I think cripes, Jesus Christ was beaten and crucified and these christians are whining about some newspaper article that makes them feel disrespected. This is really far removed from the existential freedom offered by Jesus Christ.

I have studied the matter closely and I can say from my own experience that if you are really settled in your faith then criticism of your religion doesn't bother you. It is an opportunity to look at where we hold back from faith. Engaging in defense of religion is not itself an activity of faith. If you are defending religion, you are defending nonsense.

Having said that, there are a lot of people who have a caricatured view of religion and Christianity. But hey, there's no need to understand everything in this life.

[southernfried]

8. thought that this was a General forum

.

[youngred]

11. as always a voice of sanity

you were missed in the recent fights AZ

[Jacobin]

15. That, my friend, should be published.

Excruciatingly and perfectly on target on a number of different levels in a unified and compelling use of the english language.

My hat: Is off to you! :-)

[uberotto]

5. Are you kidding...

most of us who are passionate about either side have been arguing the subject for so long that we could do it in our sleep. Many of us probably do, and just don't know it.

Like another poster mentioned, it's a political issue, this is a political discussion board, the subject is going to be discussed.

Now if anyone is silly enough to believe that a consensus is going to be reached, or anyone is going to be swayed in their opinions, well that's just sad.

[Festivito]

6. Truce (filtered) or perspective (Get rid of Bush).

Let us remember, as atheist, theist, religious, anarchist, we all want to depose Bush, ... well perhaps the anarchists are enjoying the chaos created by Bush, but, I still think they'd do better without him.

Are atheists not religious? (The original question implies no.) (Also, think: no Bush.)

Both sides seem fanatical. (Remember, get rid of Bush.)

Please understand. Some Christians who see the world as flat are as few in number as the Atheists who feel no voice.

Both sides see themselves as oppressed underdogs. (Bush should go.)

Theists can see ALL atheists as anti-organised-religion anarchists who lazily don't want to have any societal rules of conduct.
Atheists can see ALL theists as dangerous control freaks.

Both sides are dangerous. (Bush is dangerous, get rid of him.)

So what, as long as they both work to get rid of Bush they can search for their babies on the bathwater covered ground later.

Both sides in those tedious threads have been just plain dumb. (Dumb or not, we can all help get rid of Bush.)

Both sides think themselves superior to the other side. (Bush needs a superior, he needs to get out of office.)

Those who tell do not know; those who know do not tell. (I can tell Bush doesn't know he should go.)

[Allah Akbar]

9. God IS great

It's the asshole men that claim to speak for Him that give the whole thing such a bad rap.

[JohnKleeb]

10. I agree even though I was never in fighting with athiests

[Terwilliger]

12. thanks

I'll post what I want

[Blue_Chill]

13. I'm cool with a truce

But stop the annoying jokes and the smug threads. It isn't the religious that are starting this bullshit.

[Dr Fate]

14. Respect each other...

...it's easy AND fun!!!

[blondeatlast]

16. Can't do it,. There are "opponents" whose thoughts enlighten me.

The dogma spouters on both sides I choose to ignore (as opposed putting on my ignore list--I don't use it). You're a bit new; you'll learn pretty fast in the theism/atheism threads there are people who spout dogma and not much thought, I simply avoid them on both sides of the issue.

dog·ma ( P ) Pronunciation Key (dôgm, dg-)
n. pl. dog·mas or dog·ma·ta (-m-t)
A doctrine or a corpus of doctrines relating to matters such as morality and faith, set forth in an authoritative manner by a church.
An authoritative principle, belief, or statement of ideas or opinion, especially one considered to be absolutely true. See Synonyms at doctrine.
A principle or belief or a group of them: “The dogmas of the quiet past are inadequate to the stormy present” (Abraham Lincoln).

from www.dictionary.com

On edit: negativity in the subject line