Bush WILL NOT Make It To 08. This SHOULD Terrify You.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

I have a really sick feeling in my stomach right now and I wonder if there are others here that are feeling the same. This NSA news is terrifying to me, but not as much as it should be. Let's face it, it comes as no surprise to most of us here as we are so educated to reality here that we already knew he was spying on us domestically.

No. That's not what terrifies me the most. What does, is the fact that it is coming out right now in the way that it has. It has no logic to it on its face. I firmly believe the NYT is a huge propaganda tool for the powers that be. But those powers ain't Bush. I have a twisted feeling in my gut that this and other info lately is being released with one sole purpose, and that is to get rid of Bush. I think 'THEY' feel he has outlived his usefulness and is now disposable. I think 'THEY' are now setting him up to fail. That thought terrifies me. I can't help thinking that with all our efforts to dethrone the boy king, we are missing the big picture that he is a mere puppet of a higher organization that basically controls everything in our lives. If they have turned against him, they have bigger plans in mind and bigger plans ahead. But what are they? Who is the next puppet? What comes next?

Problem is I'm just not good enough at the 'putting the pieces together' end to come up with a real scenario. All I do know, is that something about all this shit going on lately, and the boy king standing up and saying "yeah, I did it and am gonna keep doin it, so fucking what?" is not only disturbing but quite illogical. I want to celebrate with each further nail in *'s coffin, but I wonder if all each nail means is that one more piece of 'THEIR' plot is coming together.

Sighhhhhh, wrap my ass up in tinfoil if you think it's warranted.

[DancingBear]

1. All I know is

we need another scorer to take the pressure off Prucha and Jagr. :)

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

5. God Bless You For Taking My Mind Of This Shit, For Even A Moment

LET'S GO RANGERS!!!!!!! FUCK YEAH BABYYYYYYYY!!!!

And yeah, we do. But fuckin Prucha man, what a great kid we got there!

[DancingBear]

39. You're more than welcome!

As the hockey folks say, that Prucha kid has "candy hands."

What a pleasure to watch him play.

[librechik]

2. all the lawyering he's done has led him into a blind corner

they have told him deny everything and pretend you have a perfect right to do what you do and make them try to stop you. Perhaps we have come to a stopping point.

[phantom power]

3. I think....

that what we might be seeing is the fog of 9/11 finally lifting from the DC Establishment. Both Congress and the Beltway media insiders. A combination of realizing just how badly they were being taken advantage of, and also (more cynically) noticing that a lot of regular American citizens aren't happy with Bush. And so now it is safe (both for Congressmen and DC media) to publicly discuss the Emperor's state of nakedness.

I think that's the reason the NYT (finally) deigned to let us know about these secret decisions a year after the fact.

But then again, the tinfoil theory is OK too.

[Name removed]

4. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Ladyhawk]

6. No. They wouldn't make him look like the idiot he is, first.

They'd just "off" him to have a martyr.

[Bellamia]

64. JFKd?

Yes, that's my feeling, but what terrifies me most is who the next President will be. Cheney.???OMG
Edit for spelling

[Uben]

7. No way!

They have to play to the base and the swing voters to win. Dumping Bush would not accomplish this goal.

[RazzleDazzle]

60. No no.

That's at the political level, what you're outlining -- GOP vs. Dem and so forth. The premise of this thread is at the GEOPOLITICAL level, a huge step up the ladder.

[Occulus]

86. But why didn't these ideas die out?

That, I think, is what we need to look at hardest- why? And how?

Who- who exactly, and all-inclusive- is perpetuating these ideas (if they can even be called that)?

[Raydawg1234]

89. I'm gonna have to disagree...........

Bush's people are the Big business interests, Cheney, Rumsfeld, they are all big players in the business world. Those are the people behind the scene. not the OLD GOP.

[iconoclastNYC]

99. John McCain - white night

cleans up the GOP after BUSH. Makes Republicans loveable again. this is our worst case scenario.

[Kazak]

143. Lemme guess,...

he's gonna return integrity to the White House...again. :crazy:

[NV Whino]

8. I've said from the beginning Bush is a throw away

I think they are setting up the succession. The VP position is the real key. Cheney will be out whether for health reasons or other reasons. It has to be set up so that they "appoint" the VP to finish this term and be an electable incumbent for 2008.

1. Cheney's out
2. Bush appoints whoever (Rice comes to mind, heaven help us)
3. Bush is impeached (after the Dems take the 2006 midterm)
4. Appointed VP becomes Pres, serves 2 years and then at least 4, if not 8 more

This "appointment" will have to be as much a puppet as Bush because Cheney and crew will still be running the show from behind the curtain.

[Radio_Lady]

17. Well, you certainly have an active imagination!

You've posted some pretty interesting and well-thought-out speculation.

Let's put it in the DU Time Capsule and open it up when it's November, 2008 --

"To infinity, and beyond!" -- Buzz Lightyear, "Toy Story"

[NV Whino]

20. Good idea.

These guys are so devious I'm sure they've come up with something much more diabolical than my innocent little mind can conjure.

[LearnedHand]

79. I had a horrible, horrible flash about this today

1. Cheney's out.
2. Bush* appoints FRIST!
3. Bush is impeached.
4. World is fucked. US is fucked. We're all fucked.

[robertpaulsen]

141. I've got an even more horrible flash.

I don't think it will be Frist. I honestly believe the whole SEC investigation is being instigated by the BFEE for perceived disloyalty.

Instead we get Santorum. President Fucking Santorum.

:nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke:
:nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke:
:nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke:

[tavalon]

156. Naw

We get someone from the PNAC cabal, though not Jebbie because his brother has, once again, fucked it up for him. Not that I'm complaining, mind you. I think the whole Bush clan should be behind bars.

[iconoclastNYC]

100. Poses a challenge tho.

When the lid comes of the Bush kettle we won't have any trouble impeaching and throwing in jail any member of the Administration. How far down are they goign to have to go to get a VP we can't impeach before the election?

[tavalon]

157. That's why they will have Cheney go first

Bush (well, not really) will get to choose who the next vp is and it will be someone who is, pardon the pun, unimpeachable.

[tavalon]

155. When I put on my tinfoil hat

This is exactly the scenario I come up with. OTOH, it didn't work so well for Nixon et al, did it? Well, except for him not going to prison.

[Robert Cooper]

9. to put Cheney in...

...seems the obvious answer here.

Perhaps Bush has been expressing doubts, concerns for his legacy, etc. Cheney is a much better instrument for control.

[catzies]

58. Yes, Cheney is a much better instrument for control but isn't he better

behind the scenes? He's never liked doing anything public...

He'll be replaced as VP "For health reasons," or "To spend more time with his family," but he'll still be just as involved. We just won't see any of it.

[radfringe]

101. if "they" are looking to dump bubble-boy

because his numbers are a liability to repugs running for re-Selection then they shouldn't be looking to Cheney as a replacement

he's adverse to public appearances and comes across as having a very strong distain for having to explain things.

plus his own numbers are even worse than bubble-boy's

[PDJane]

10. No.

I don't think it's all that outrageous, in fact.

[Matariki]

11. tinfoil.

i don't think it's productive to believe in an all powerful "THEM"

politics are complex, there are many factors which are not quite as organized by a big "THEY" as you seem to believe in.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

12. I must say I'm quite surprised by your response.

I'm a bit surprised that someone who has been at DU that long doesn't think that a 'THEY' exists, but that's fine. Just surprised me is all.

For the record I don't think it's productive to rule the notion out, either.. :)

[Matariki]

19. well, if you believe in "THEM"

let's call "THEM" The Illuminati for convenience sake, and you believe that "THEY" control EVERYTHING - why bother. why bother being involved in politics, why bother trying to change anything? That's why I think it's counter productive - and paranoid.

I agree that there are groups of individuals (that's *groups* not 'A Group') with wealth and influence who pull strings for their own benefit, but I refuse to believe they are all that smart, all that omnipotent, or even all that organized with each other.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

29. Thanks For Putting Words In My Mouth, But Here, Have Them Back, I Insist.

I didn't say a thing about illuminati. I didn't say a thing about them being all that smart. I didn't say a thing about them being omnipotent and I didn't say a thing about them being so organized.

No. What I did imply was that there are a group of individuals with wealth and influence who pull strings that are now staging their next act.

So here, take these words back. I'm not so fond of their taste.

[Matariki]

44. i didn't say you called them the Illuminati

and I believe you missed my point.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

47. Rather, I believe I tore the point to shreds, but your end point was just

simply in agreement with what I was saying to begin with, so I guess we'll just agree to disagree even though we agree we agree.

[Dora]

120. Jolly good show, there. n/t

[Joe Chi Minh]

111. It's your privilege.

The big guys, who always keep a low profile, understand now that even their patsy, who had not the least fear or understanding of the latent power in the democratic checks and balances already in place in the US, has been unable to set up an omnipotent fascist Government. And indeed the financial beneficiaries of his corporatism are, for the most part, narrowly restricted to big oil and defence. The latter more so even than usual.

They must, furthermore, see that the outrageously fraudulent elections are the ultimate source from which all the other scandals have ensued, so their options are limited. But what they must do is have a puppet who at least presents a patina of partisan "political" leadership, as opposed to a partisan railroad. At least a simulacrum, a modicum of political respectability, both at home and abroad. Elections are going to mean something again one day. Probably much sooner than later.

[tavalon]

159. Hey, watch the shell game

While we're debating and screaming about the Emperor who lacks clothes, the people behind the scenes are bringing the fascism in right on schedule. I've been screaming about it for the last two years and got my head chewed off a number of times. Look behind the curtain.

[Javaman]

114. "THEM" as in the giant ants?????n/t

[tavalon]

158. When I hear "them"

in the context of this administration, I substitute the acronym PNAC. They are the ones pulling the strings.

[teknomanzer]

27. There most certainly is a 'THEY' or 'THEM'

but 'THEY' are not nearly as organized as well as we believe they are.

You know like - donning ornate robes and getting together at the Bohemian Grove to force hapless victims into fornicating with goats before quaffing down a jewel encrusted goblet full of warm fresh baby blood, and then egaging in serious discussion of global economic policy.

'THEY' probably don't do anything like that.

Their interests just happen to coincide so rather well for the most part that they don't need the level of organization we tin foilers give them credit for. Oh for sure a few of 'THEM' get together every now and then, but I doubt baby blood is involved. ;)

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

30. Ok, but I never said they were that organized.

But I agree, they don't much need to be. The fact is they still control the strings right now and I fear what comes next.

[northzax]

38. excuse me.

the goblet is not 'jewel encrusted' you peasant, it is carved from a single jewel. And goat skin leggings are very comfortable, I think everyone will be wearing them soon.

oh, maybe I said too much. oh well, They'll never catch me...

[rman]

103. They might not do the blood ritual,

but they definitely do engage in serious discussion of geo-political policies.

They don't make a secret out of it, and they don't make a secret out of the fact that what's actually being discussed is secret. ie Bilderberg group, Trilateral commission etc.

Also don't you think that for instance IMF, WTO etc coordinate their policies so that those work out to the advantage of the same rich and powerful who create such institutions (inevitably at the expense of the poor and powerless)?

[Seabiscuit]

37. More tinfoil...

:tinfoilhat: :yoiks:

The only "they" or "them" is the PNAC, and its cozy relations with Halliburton, the Carlysle Group, etc., etc., etc. There is a web of various think tanks and corporations that worked together to install the moron boyking, because he's easy for them to control, while Cheney, et. al. run the government on behalf of the corrupt corporations who are out to steal our national treasury and who support the politicians who act as their toadys in stifling dissent, even if it means destroying our civil liberties.

It's kind of like Al Queda - a web of "cells" with its tentacles into everything. But there's no one big "they" - just a lot of cooperation from numerous groups working together to conquer the world, destroy our liberties, steal other countries' oil wealth, and mock us with the boyking's words, smirks and sneers.

With the Bush administration (not just Bush himself) out of power, and a Democratic majority in Congress, these corrupt groups would lose their grip on our fortunes and liberties.

[AntiFascist]

74. the other THEM is the Saudi Royals....

who are purported to have funded Al-Qaida in the past in order that AQ not attack them. The neocons would like Al-Qaida to only be active in the Middle East in order to continue their plan of ME revolution and "creative destruction", but if they become too threatening to the SA Royals, and the US doesn't cooperate enough with SA, then who knows if they may allow funding of another major attack on the US? There's also the Likud vs. Iran.

[Seabiscuit]

87. That Saudis may be *one* of "them".

[AntiFascist]

91. right...

the point is I don't believe there is a cohesive single conspiratorial group controlling things. The balance of power is always shifting, but when their goals are aligned then that's when we need to worry.

[tavalon]

160. Yeah, like they did during the Clinton administration!

The Democrats were fully in control back then and it was a utopia and the rich and powerful weren't waging a vendetta against the sitting President and ............

I wish I could have your optimism but this is going to be a long hard slog back from the brink, probably spanning decades assuming the "they" roll over completely which they never, ever will.

[mom cat]

13. Bush is just the right hand puppet of the puppet masters. They have

their left hand puppets too.

[WilliamPitt]

14. I guarantee

that Bush will serve every day of his term (unless we take back Congress after '06, which changes the math).

You think the power brokers are worried about bad press? They aren't. The oil companies posted world-record-breaking profits this year. The defense contractors are raking it in.

Bush isn't going anywhere, because he is still making money for these people. The press doesn't matter. They are securing their financial supremacy - the 1% of the 1% - for the next several generations. George is helping them do that. He stays, and the news be damned.

[lovelaureng]

21. You make a damn good point.

I tend to follow the money trail in a given situation, politics or business.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

32. I agree with your premise but am not so confident in the outcome

Will, I respect your insight more than almost any other informative source I can think of. I agree wholeheartedly with everything you state above and it is of sound logic.

Where I get into complexities is with the future of their financial supremacy. Though he has definitely served his purpose and made the wealth they desire, he is still in my opinion just a front man. And I believe the biggest role the front man needs to play is keeping the sheep blind to the greater plots behind the curtain. The reason for my OP is that I wonder if he hasn't become too much of a liability since more and more sheep are beginning to rub their eyes as the sun gleans into them once again.

Now granted, they aren't nearly as awake as they need to be. But I think just maybe enough is going wrong that the front man needs to be replaced so that the scrutiny to the greater plans can once again be diminished.

In the end you are probably the right one though. Occam's Razor. :)

[tavalon]

162. But

to throw another thought in. I just posted a similar thing to Will. What if we're being used? What if they're whipping us into this frenzy for..............?

Edited to add: I think the main thing that bothers me with this is the way Bush went on TV on Saturday and bragged, yes, bragged about committing high crimes and misdemeanors and effectively double dared the American public and the other branches of government to do anything about it. Now, Bush really is just that stupid but he didn't write that speech. Someone else or likely a large committee of someone elses did. And those people aren't addled the way Bush the Swiss cheese brain is. I can't quite shake the feeling that we're being manipulated.

[Caretha]

109. One small kink in your logic

I believe in "the following the money" theory also, but here are a few ingredients I believe you have not considered:

The treasury has been looted....
The American people are all "credited out"...
The Iraq war hasn't worked so far in terms of preventing oil being sold in Euros...
And when the US housing bubble bursts (and it will) the house of cards comes tumbling down.

This means no more profits for the big boys.

I'm being very abbreviated in my description of the whole mess, but let's look at it like this.

When the PNAC gang took their Power Point presentation to "the Big Boys" to sell them on "why they should be in power", their (the PNAC Gang) vision was so narrow, they didn't have much of a back-up plan in case they failed in securing and controlling the oil currency. (Probably part of their back-up plan included grabbing as much blackmail info on power players as they could).

The "Big Boys" (think of them as the bankers) aren't/weren't so vision impaired, and like any good banker secured collateral. In other words, they knew they would make a butt load of money (collateral) in the beginning and could with hold their support in the end if all didn't work out in the vision presented by the PNAC gang.

I've often wondered, while protesting the machinations of this cabal, if the US wouldn't be better off in the future if they succeeded in their nefarious plans. As long as the oil currency remains in US $, a steep and unprecedented depression might be able to be held off until some new balance can come into the equation to make it comparably milder.

If not, the ride is liable to be wild.

[tavalon]

163. I was going to comment

on how America centric your argument at the end was but on second thought, that depression will be world wide. Yikes, my head hurts. I sometimes wonder if my moving out to the country might turn out to be rather well timed.

[tavalon]

161. Last week I would have agreed 100%

Now, I'm not so sure. But I'm also not so sure that we aren't just being handed the sacrificial lamb if in fact Bush does go down. This NSA thing has me seriously confused, elated and yet frankly nervous. Who the hell benefits from this stirring up of the masses? I am actually wanting to know. Why are they whipping us up? Or is it just that this administration is starting to show its cracks and there is really nothing more sinister than that?

[stillcool]

15. For me...the Abramoff, Delay, AIPAC, Plame, ...and the like...

the money-laundering, double-dipping, power-grabbing nucleus ...is being exposed on a daily basis. If just one of these scandals is successfully prosecuted the results will be staggering...CYA mode has got to be a priority for any corporations caught in the cross-hairs, and considering the pay-offs to those lobbyists loyal to the GOP...:scared: yikes

[lonestarnot]

77. No these prosecutions will take to long! This is emergency proportion

we are considering here. It cannot wait until these fucking trials take place!

[bridgit]

16. w/his ignorant disregard for civil liberty; bush is far more destructive..

than nixon imo; i have no idea and would be interested in finding out, just what the hell congressional dems; house & senate both, thought they were doing when they gave this guy a blank check to fuck up this country & the world out from under the Bill of Rights; tell me dems!! what have you done this? why have you betrayed this country? where is your sense of loyal opposition?

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

33. Tell me bridgit, Why are you attacking the dems? Why no bad words for the

repubs? Where is your sense of direction? LOL

Ok, I get it. You are frustrated at the dems. But C'mon, t'would be far more productive to place the blame where it lies. On a corrupt culture of corruption that is the GOP.

[bridgit]

46. there is no doubt dems did not posses the balls to stand up to w...

for flat-out fear of being portrayed as unpatriotic when the time was right http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=5640632&mesg_id=5640632

you're correct...i am upset with the dems for not offering a righteous sense of loyal opposition, dems such as lieberman are having a field day making republican talking points for them, what the hell is up with that? why are you not outraged? threads all over GD raking Biden for his response. i didn't see you post any such as you've done here. why not ask lieberman where his "sense of direction" is? i mean come on. these are very serious matters and the world, the fragile world, has been handed over to a group of freaking lunatics. do not even try to cast me as a freeper; that dog wont hunt...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=5640511&mesg_id=5640814

it is my sense that the matter has always been 3-D, you need to be able to 'turn it in space', and it will not solve anything by approaching it as a flat, 2-D issue imo

keep your eye on the prize, cause the other side will not show up to play they will show up to WIN! i would that dems would be likewise. please do not think that "bad words for the repubs" will suffice this next round.

[secretmouse]

43. Chill, Bridgit!

You have to remember context...Bush and his cabal took advantage of the 9/11 tragedy to impose his will on this country. I was called "Unpatriotic""Commie" "Pinko" "Traitor" for being against Bush and the war in Iraq..lots of people weren't willing to risk being tagged that way..remember Ari Fleischer warning us to "Watch What You Say"?...He suckerpunched Congress and the Senate...and millions upon millions of Americans who were being told that a "Mushroom Cloud" was on the horizon.

I think all of us get frustrated and angry when we see what Bush is being allowed to do, but the Onion is slowly peeling and he is being revealed to the world as the corrupt, elitish shithead that he really is...we have to keep pushing, pushing...remember, more people voted against him when he was first appointed...if we all keep pushing, we can topple him!

[bridgit]

48. i was not fooled by bush, i am grounded in spite of aspersions...

yet they are there, not by my will...but the will of others. and now the Bill of Rights is undone in a most heinous fashion. if it were up to me, he would have never been installed that is a given.

[sweetheart]

93. Its good to read

that such intelligent persons are so damn pissed off at these "southern men".

Its been on the rise for some time now, not just bush, and without the systemic
will to resist, what do you expect? I'm amazed that you remain so optimistic
that the pukes "can" be undone, given the fact that the patient is bleeding out all
over the operating table.

I was never fooled by him either, but we suffer plato's wise navigator's conundrum
in a mob-ruled imperial roman'esque decline.

[bridgit]

98. sweeheart-honey!!!! where...have...you...been...

:hi: tis true, i am optimistic. my darling kith & kin tis true as well however, we will never get rid of these ilk while handing them the tools to tinker us out from the midst of our own proper precession...
:patriot:

[sweetheart]

121. ha!

I was just replying, when i see this image. !
I've been here:

The tools of their precession, is my own cognition of a compelling reason to
live. I feel, a professional trained tool, educated to be part of the southern
man's corporate kingdom. And no matter my conscience, i am a villain, a
rude ignorant imperialist. And count on it, every solution that i think of
will be just another neocon plot to reengineer society, that anything needs a
"solution" to start with, tha i'm somehow got to fix *anything* when
maybe nothing is broken. Perhaps by not picking up the hot tool, i
defeat the precession, but death too is prescient. And which shall cliam
me first, death or a world liberated from neocons, i cannot say.

If that is your photo, you are very beautiful.

Happy winter solstice, in a few hours, the new year by any sidereal measure.
And born 2005dec21 13:35EST is a new set of karmas, without original sin. Would
that those things be very light-bringing karmas, that we take back the surface
of the planet. :-)

But, if the southern man's karma is to live in darkness, then maybe its more
a matter of containment.

[bridgit]

151. i don't know from beautiful, but i say you this eternal lover...

be whole of heart :hug:

[tavalon]

164. Are you speaking

of our Kennebunkport cowboy? Not all Texans are fooled by that asshat.

[cinci_democrat]

18. Another Attack

I also experienced chills tonight, envisioning these fucks launching another homeland attack to lay to rest the debate on the patriot act and wiretap issue. NY, LA, LV? What the hell? I hate to say it but, I really wouldn't put it past these psychopaths.

[rzemanfl]

22. Four hundred pounds of high tech explosives and 2,500

detonators were stolen out West. I will try to post link.

[MissB]

23. In New Mexico, right?

[rzemanfl]

24. Yes, here's the link:

http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=1421579&CMP=OTC-RSSFeeds0312

[Iris]

153. Yeah - so important ABC had it on the TICKER on GMA while they harped on

and on about Barbara Walters' special about "heaven".

Jeez - if I catch a bit of GMA after getting local weather and traffic, I feel like I'm in Sunday school. Always something about religion.

[lostnfound]

97. I recall the explosives truck that exploded,leaving massive crater in UT

Don't know why that popped into my head, but here's the DU thread. The crater left behind was huge -- one story says 20' x 35', the other says 30' x 70'. The photos are all gone now, most links in the thread are dead but I found this onewhich is the best article. Elsewhere they said it was "pentolite explosive", a mixture of TNT and PETN, a powerful explosive sometimes used in land mines and detonation cords, and that it "had been formed into cast boosters - seismic charges used for oil and gas exploration."

But I guess those are considered "low-tech" explosives? :shrug:



By JENNIFER DOBNER, Associated Press Writer 30 minutes ago

SALT LAKE CITY - A tractor-trailer carrying 35,500 pounds of explosives overturned and exploded Wednesday, injuring four people and leaving a huge crater in a Utah highway.

The truck driver, a passenger in the cab, a motorist and a man on a motorcycle were hospitalized after the truck "pretty much vaporized," Utah Highway Patrol Sgt. Todd Royce said.

The explosion left a crater in two-lane U.S. 6 estimated to be between 20 feet and 35 feet deep, Utah Department of Transportation spokesman Tom Hudachko said.

The rig, from R&R Trucking of Duenweg, Mo., had just left commercial explosives maker Ensign-Bickford Co. at the mouth of Spanish Fork Canyon when the accident happened. The truck was headed to Oklahoma, company officials said. They wouldn't say what type of explosives the truck was carrying.

*********************

[SmokingJacket]

25. Your guess is as good as mine, here.

For perhaps the first time, I'm quite baffled at the way this is all unwinding. I can't tell if they're falling apart, or massively strengthening. We lost ANWR! They screwed over New Orleans and are getting away with it! No need to even mention Iraq! They *appear* to be falling apart by the day, but at the same time, they seem to be doing just fine and are cockier than ever.

I don't get it! Maybe you're right! Who knows???????????

[Radio_Lady]

26. Fuck. That New Mexico story blows me away <sarcasm>.

Also, we're going to Nevada in February. Las Vegas was one of the targets last time -- when was that? Earlier this year?

That dryness in our throats?

It's fear............. combined with loathing...............

[cinci_democrat]

28. Boy...I miss Hunter

[Radio_Lady]

34. Yes, he was gonzo...

http://www.gonzo.com/

[BelgianMadCow]

31. I confess to having similar thoughts

To me THEM are the big corporations whose power is unbridled.

It came to me as amidst bad economic tidings over here it was reported our mayor Bank makes a 10 million profit per day.

And I do fear that a significant part of both parties is bought in one way or another by these powers.

But fear should not hold us back.

[alfredo]

35. I thought the story was a teaser for an upcoming tell all book by

one of the NYT writers. It seems like that was discussed here at DU.

[mopinko]

36. i'm with you. * higher ups are throwing him overboard

who will fill the chair? they can have cheney resign for "health reasons", replace him with some gollum, then let the impeachment rip. clean slate, smoke and mirrors, honeymoon time. imho, that is what they did to nixon, cut him loose when he started stinking to much, then carried on.

[secretmouse]

40. Nah, it's just The Bush Machine

After Shrub got his ass kicked about Katrina, the cia leaks and the war in Iraq, they had to go to Plan "B"...I watch all of the political shows, read the columns, and what I've figured is that he's talking to other people now, not just his SS. He's been told he needs to be a softer, kinder more vulnerable Bush...that he has to "bind" with the American people..share stuff, etc.,...what scares me is that it seems to be working! The bastard's approval numbers are going up!!Some of our fellow citizens are willing to stick their heads in the sand again, and believe the SOB!

I had so thought that his number was up!!...that his mountain of lies and desception was crashing down around him...we have to keep up the pressure, we have to be contacting all of our representatives Dems and Reps, complaining about Bush.

Use up the bandwidth...let's cut down the bush!

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

41. With All Due Respect, WTF are you Talking About???

Your reply doesn't have an aiota to do with my post. How does illegal domestic spying have to do with him being softer and kinder? Have you lost it?

Sorry, but the reply was so off the mark of my thread that I sit here scrathing my head wondering if you replied to the wrong topic? :shrug:

[secretmouse]

45. Sorry! My bad

[nolabels]

96. Made sense to me and in a round about way that is what MSM is........

attempting to promote to counter the release of the story. The MSM is disjointed in some ways to be sure though.

The original paranoid post makes sense if you understand everybody always would like a resolution to their mental anguish. It may or may not come true but to be sure this is a way to cope with it. It's just like if you were looking at it like we were all just one big dysfunctional family. When others in the family feel threatened they go out and look for more space to keep their paranoia in check. It will all be alright eventually or they will end cutting their own throats. At any rate, just like your doing, give em some more space or more rope, how ever it works

The only time I get nervous is when common sense solutions actually start working :-)

[SammyWinstonJack]

107. If he's trying to come across as "softer, kinder.." he blew it yesterday

with that PC. He came across as arrogant, defensive and Dictator-like. He needs to work on that "softer, kinder" thingy. :rofl: ** isn't capable of appearing either way.

[lonestarnot]

42. He's the prelude to the beast, beast's cousin. LOL

[LunaC]

49. Georgie won't make it to the end but it's just poor planning

The PNAC ideologues got caught up in their own bullshit and made serious errors in judgement and planning. They fucked up in a big way and they know it but stubbornly cling to "stay the course" in the hopes that their capsized Ship of Dreams will magically, miraculously right itself. Problem is, those around them that aren't part of the original Pax Americana Glee Club are seeing the bullshit for what it is and they're calling them to the carpet in a public way by dropping a dime and leaking incriminating details to sink them once and for all. We're not the only ones hep to the Big Charade and thankfully those behind-the-scenes who have the goods are bringing it to the light of day.

[Initech]

50. What would REALLY be scary is if...

Whoever takes W's place turns out to be worse than he is! I mean, god forbid that someone like "Dr." Bill "I dunno if HIV can be transmitted through sweat" Frist takes W's place. That would be a VERY scary thought! :scared:

[electropop]

51. I think Cheney believes he controls all.

Some in the government disagree, which is why you see stories like this. Bush is obviously not in control of anything, including his own mind. He came across as insane on TV when he publicly confessed to 30 counts of impeachable offenses and dared us to stop him.

[AnnieBW]

52. Tecumseh's Curse

I recently came across an article about "Tecumseh's Curse" and it got me to thinking. You know, the curse that no President elected in a year ending in 0 will be alive at the end of his term? The only one that managed to beat it was Ronnie Raygun, but barely. I've been wondering lately if "not see the end of his term" would also apply to impeachment.

[CJCRANE]

105. It works

if you take it that Gore was elected in 2000 - and didn't see the start of his term let alone the end!

[Beam Me Up]

53. You and I apparently think much alike. Happy to have given you the 5th nom

Getting this notion onto the greatest page.

Here is a quote you may enjoy with link to article below it.

If we imagine a nation’s leader being impeached, forced to
resign, or otherwise driven from office, yet the corrupt and exploitative power structure is
left intact, this is not revolution; for no matter how hated the fallen leader may have been,
the balance of power in the relationship between the People and the government will
remain unchanged. It is only when this balance has shifted that we may rightfully call it
revolution. Since we currently have no say in elections, in influencing changes in
leadership, revolution can be no less than restoring the franchise. In this way, peaceful
revolution is not grandiose; it is the least we can do!

From Dave Berman's So be it: A Blueprint for Peaceful Revolution
This paper is archived at: http://tinyurl.com/au2pj

There is also this that I often quote:

...knowledge brings responsibility. If we acknowledge that an inner circle of ruling elites controls the world's most powerful military and intelligence system; controls the international banking system; controls the most effective and far-reaching propaganda network in history; controls all three branches of government in the world's only superpower; and controls the technology that counts the people's votes, we might be then forced to conclude that we don't live in a particularly democratic system. And then voting and making contributions and trying to stay informed wouldn't be enough. Because then the duty of citizenship would go beyond serving as a loyal opposition, to serving as a "loyal resistance"—like the Republicans in the Spanish Civil War, except that in this case the resistance to fascism would be on the side of the national ideals, rather than the government; and a violent insurgency would not only play into the empire's hands, it would be doomed from the start.

Forming a nonviolent resistance movement, on the other hand, might mean forsaking some middle class comfort, and it would doubtless require a lot of work. It would mean educating ourselves and others about the nature of the truly apocalyptic beast we face. It would mean organizing at the most basic neighborhood level, face to face. (We cannot put our trust in the empire's technology.) It would mean reaching across turf lines and transcending single-issue politics, forming coalitions and sharing data and names and strategies, and applying energy at every level of government, local to global. It would also probably mean civil disobedience, at a time when the Bush regime is starting to classify that action as "terrorism." In the end, it may mean organizing a progressive confederacy to govern ourselves, just as our revolutionary founders formed the Continental Congress. It would mean being wise as serpents, and gentle as doves.

It would be a lot of work. It would also require critical mass. A paradigm shift.

Paranoid Shift

[Burried News]

54. They must be defeated pawn by pawn. In chess you cannot

defeat the opponent simply by hoping to catch the king in the open - you must first create the 'openness' if you will. I believe your view of who and what is behind Bush is fundamentally correct. But there are no circumstances that will let you fight one big decisive battle with those who control the throne.

The US Army could not seize Richmond until US Grant won his war of attrition at Cold Harbor, Vicksburg, Atlanta etc.

[InkAddict]

55. Well, what about this so-called schism

between * and the Veep. Maybe there's a case to be made for a "tit-for-tat" scenario. I read that Dick's party was treated rather indecorously in Afghanistan and such a quick trip to so many uneasy places in the ME is probably not good for such a pasty looking fellow--must be many anxious moments, no?, and not a lot of applause from the troops. Perhaps * ordered this trip to put the roses back in Dick's cheeks, and sent along the post-mortum make-up artist too. So, Dick returned the favor by telling NYT to dump the story and heat up the boilin' oil for *.

I'd say sending him over there is putting a whole lot of distance between 'em.

[CJCRANE]

106. I think

* and Cheney are just muddling along.

Look at Clinton during the whole Monica thing, he just kept going. I think the natural instinct for most politicians is just to keep going until something stops them.

The game isn't over yet for * and Cheney so they'll just keep trying to keep their heads above water for as long as they can.

[stop the bleeding]

56. They have already obtained Iraq and the protection of America's

interests in the Middle East and the World, so yes maybe Bush has worn out his welcome or better yet "THEY" have ridden that horse to the point that it needs to be put down or at least out to pasture.


K&R

[Solomon]

57. Hmmmm. The poster is terrified that Bush might not make it to 2008?!

Something we all dream about makes you terrified? Wow. Antennae are up.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

61. Hey Genius, I dream about it too. Maybe try actually READING the thread?

I dunno, maybe that would help your replies seem less ignorant? :shrug:

And put those antennae down buddy, before ya hurt yourself.

[Solomon]

65. Hey, you did it to yourself. Don't blame me.

This ain't the only post either. I wont stoop to your level and say anything about ignorance. I accept your assessment of "genius" though. :evilgrin:

What possible difference does it make if Bush fucks us or "they" (as you put it) fucks us? Why the concern for Bush?

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

68. A True Genius Would've Picked Up On The Heavy Sarcasm

I also implore you to post a link to ANY post that bolsters your "this ain't the only post" ignorance, as I doubt you can.

Furthermore labeling the reply as ignorance was not stooping to any level, but was rather spot on in its accuracy of your words. There was no factual basis to your comment whatsoever and it was nothing more than attacking rhetoric without any substance related to the OP. Therefore, it was a post rooted in ignorance, period.

As far as your last line goes, a quick read of the OP should answer it, though so far it appears the context of the thread has been lost on you. It may be to your benefit to spend more time exploring your first hobby, as you have a long way to go to mastering its concept, kemosabe.

:hi:

[Solomon]

90. So it's sarcasm now? You spin real good. You should work for Fox.

I like the way you keep bringing up ignorance, Tonto. :applause:

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

108. How's That Genius Thing Going LOL

Calling you genius was sarcasm LOL.

:rofl:

[tavalon]

165. You thought this thread was about concern for Bush!?

That's rich. :rofl:

[Faux pas]

59. Hell, I live in a tinfoil house, so don't feel too badly, k? n/t

[librechik]

67. pretty good plan--welcome to DU, Faux pas!

I have a lot of corrugated galvanized in my house, so you are not alone

[Faux pas]

95. Thanks for the welcome librechik! Yep, I figure the more metal

the better. LOL

[cry baby]

62. I don't know, but the talking heads have come out of the wood-

work to excuse * illegal behavior. Today, I have heard Gonzalez, Rice, Liddy, and others say the actions were legal and/or necessary along with lots of freeps on cspan phones. In fact, it has depressed me so that I am going to bed early and cover my head with a quilt. If this cannot bring out the distrust in these * supporters, I don't know what will. That means I cannot trust how far this admin will go to become totally totalitarian.

If they were hanging him out to dry, I don't think they would be spinning like they are.

[drfresh]

63. I dunno

I think * fucked this up on his own. And its somewhat logical that * would do that, if he was caught red handed he can't really deny doing it. The only way out is to bluff and be tough. Hopefully people will call him on it...

[tavalon]

166. Have you ever heard Bush ad lib and actually be able to finish a sentence?

His Saturday gig was written for him and he dutifully read it off the teleprompter. So, this wasn't done "on his own". We could use that excuse with a great orator like Bill Clinton, not Dubya.

[prolesunited]

66. Or, you could believe that TRUE PATRIOTS

are coming forward to stop the total destruction of the U.S. and everything it stands for. They were willing to go along for awhile, but when they saw where the future was heading, the bravely stepped forward.

With most of our economy based on service and retail, the destruction of the middle class would not benefit them at all.

Hey, I'm being optimistic tonight.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

69. I like your optimism!

Lord knows there isn't as much as we need on here sometimes, and it made me smile to read your optimistic view. Thanks for the boost before bed, and keep up the positive vibes!

:hi:

[NVMojo]

70. interesting ...

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

71. Funny thing is it is now a couple of hours since I posted, and I feel

different LOL I mean, I still am terrified at the concepts, but am also filled with anger, passion, and yet hope that this will break wide open and tear down this regime. Kinda makes me two-sided to be scared of a potential master plan yet excited over impeachment implications at the same time, don't it. But whatcha gonna do ya know? LOL

[Nothing Without Hope]

72. I have been afraid for some time that Bush's increasing instability and

mental/emotional deterioration have indeed made him not only a disposable burden to the powers behind the government but potentially a tool to get back support for the neocon war plans. I am afraid that there could be a staged "assassination" that would be blamed (of course) on the country they most want to invade - from most signs, that would be IRAN. At one blow, you would have an end to Bush's dangerous (for them - the string-pullers - too, though in a different way than for us) hubris, a great way to pump up support for yet another war (hey- it worked so well on 9/11), and a great way to instantly make Bush untouchable by the press - he'd become a sainted hero-martyr overnight.

Bush himself is too arrogant and stupid to realize the danger he is in, I'd say.

Just one of my :tinfoilhat: theories, one that causes me anxiety because it would fit their mode of action and solve so many problems for them.

Yes, let's hope he survives until 2008. Impeached, yes, but PLEASE, not assassinated.

[Alcibiades]

73. On "Them"

I know a few of them, and have even been to a few meetings. They are oligarchs, and, yes, Virginia, they are behind Bush. It's not a secret, you can just read the names of his contributors to find out who "they" are. The political process is set up as a genteel silent auction for them, but they have placed bids on both the Republicans and the Democrats, so they win no matter who wins.

George Bush isn't their puppet. He's one of them, a full-fledged member of the club. They will not blink an eye at sending your son or mine to die in Iraq, but they would never, never hang one of their own out to dry.

They have three weaknesses. The first is hubris. It is the arrogance of power that has led to the current state of affairs. A more statesmanlike gentleman than Bush would have been able to accomplish his aims, fool the people, and stay within the rule of law. This brings us to the second weakness, which is inbreeding. Unlike most primates, even the most stupid of "them" can marry and breed, and their wealth prevents them from being selected out of the gene pool. They also have a tendency to marry for looks rather than brains. If they have no countervailing traditions encouraging exogamy, in generation 12 you get G.W. Bush, in generation 13 you get Paris Hilton, and it gets worse in later generations, until you get folks who make the Habsburgs look normal. Their third weakness is single-mindedness. Although this is often seen as a virtue, it can be a vice. Your regular person will turn before driving off a cliff, but one of "them," deeply filled with a sense of their own rectitude, convinced that driving off a cliff is something that cannot happen to someone of character and distinguished breeding, and secure with the self-sufficiency that a lifetime of being shielded from the merest possibility of failure can bring, will drive off the edge double-quick, stomping on the gas as they go.

[loudsue]

84. Very interesting post. n/t

:kick:

[CJCRANE]

115. ...* is asleep at the wheel, running on empty

and set to cruise control.

[FreedomAngel82]

75. It does make you wonder

And I still wonder why in the hell the NYTimes held this information!! This is just outrageous. And I wonder why now too. Is it something with Karl Rove or what? I just don't get it.

[melting the beehive]

76. The PTB are in the process of getting rid of the neocons,

they have done their masters bidding either wittingly or unwittingly and cleaned house in Iraq. Now they will be forced to leave, and Iraq will splinter into weak tribal regions which is what the plan was all along. The neocons were used and now the democrats will be brought into power to implement another command and control strategy of the global elite. Don't be fooled, anyone who gets into the White House next will be used to further an agenda that will be anti-American. Democrat vs Republican is a distraction which masks the real power brokers who are out to destroy the sovereignty of the Western nations.

[lonestarnot]

78. Interesting... now who is the fucking PTB?

[AntiFascist]

80. Powers that Be?

I always felt Hillary would "tow the vehicle" until the next big Republican came along. (I wanted to say "toe the line", but that means something a little different).

[crispini]

82. the Powers That Be

although I like to think of TPTB as more good guys, angelic forces, not bad guys. Wishful thinking? :D

[lonestarnot]

85. Ok then so who is running this ship? Who are the PsTB?

[melting the beehive]

88. They are the central bankers, Illuminati, Bilderberg group,

the ones who don't need money because they print the money.

[tavalon]

167. PNAC

and the haves and the have mores.

[Raydawg1234]

92. Maybe they'll bring back Elvis while they're at it!

[incapsulated]

81. THEM!!!

KILL ONE AND TWO TAKE THEIR PLACE!!



(and btw, the hockey slang is "soft hands" not "candy hands", lol. Never heard that one. Let's Go Rain-jas!)

[lonestarnot]

83. No NOT! HOLY FREAK'N COW!

:scared: :buttgrin:

[Raydawg1234]

94. Link to the history of the Bush family.........

hope it sheds some light on who THEY may possibly be.

http://www.tarpley.net/bush1.htm

This is about George H.W. Bush, but it sheds a lot of light on W's mindset.

[RagingInMiami]

102. So we spend five years wishing Bush will get impeached

And now that there is evidence emerging, which for the first time, is not getting ignored, we're suppose to hope he doesn't get impeached?

[rman]

104. I think the point is more like

it won't be over, after this Bush's reign.

[Jamastiene]

110. Huh?

Nah, I don't think so. Granted the Bush administration is more than one man, but msm is still pretty much supporting him and the powers that be, let's face it, ARE the Bush administration. He just finally crossed the line and made some of his own constituents mad. So now, he must reap what he has sown. It'll be dealt to him according to the rule of law, which is ironic if you think about it considering the fact that he can't follow that himself.

[sybylla]

112. I prefer to think it is the CIA dissing on his ass

in part for blaming them for 9-11 and in part because the ultimate role of the agency is to protect our "democracy."

But maybe I'm one of those insane optimists. :shrug:

[starroute]

113. This goes higher than the people behind Bush

Jay Rockefeller may be a key. I can't figure him out -- he's either a total wimp or a very sensitive key to what highly placed people in the power structure want to have happen, and I'm never sure which. But the fact that he's surfaced at this precise moment, to say that he not only sent Cheney a handwritten letter about the spying in 2003 but kept a copy for himself under lock and key, seems indicative of something larger in play.

This may be a case of the war between the Yankees and the Cowboys you occasionally see cited. The Bush administration represents the southern-based, extractive-industries, unilateralist wing of the power structure. The nothern elite is far more multilateralist and new-economy, with some openness to ecological and related issues. The fact that the New York Times is flapping around in the breeze to quite the extent that it is may be a barometer of just how powerful the forces are under the surface.

In short, the real war may not be between Us and Them, but between Them-1 and Them-2. In that case, though I hate to say it, the last thing we would want is a smooth and seamless transition back to "normal" like after Watergate. We need for things to crack wide open, for all the dirty secrets to come out, and for the American people to be imbued with a generation-long hatred of Business As Usual.

Of course, I'm not holding my breath waiting for it to happen. But I do know that the first time I see someone suggesting we need to paper things over for the good of the country, I'm going to (metaphorically) spit in his face.

[Name removed]

116. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[CJCRANE]

117. His disapproval rate is over 50% -

that means the majority of the American people are ungrateful.

Question:

When do you start to wonder if you're doing something wrong?

When one person disagrees with you? Half a dozen? More than half your own country and most of the world?

[bhaiti11]

118. Do believe everything you read

The country has a media control. Where did you get that 50 % from?

How would you better the situation if you president?

[CJCRANE]

119. Just go onto any major news website

that does approval ratings polls - there are plenty of links from discussion threads on DU. Plus I doubt that there is (left-wing) media control seeing as most of the news organisations are owned by mega-corporations.

As for how to better the situation I suggest you read a few more threads on DU to get a few alternative ideas.

[bhaiti11]

124. Thanks for the reminder!

I don't have time to read any more threads, what I know is strong enough. However, People are getting weak, We don't' stand united anymore. I am sure if the media twist the stories a little many will fall for it. This is just a difference of opinion my friend. We both feel strong about our believes, but it sure won't change a damn thing. Voters need to stand strong by their leader. Maybe on the next election people will be a little more careful on choosing their leader...

[ProfessorGAC]

128. First, No They Don't

Secondly, the people who are cowards are those that follow a leader blindly in some misguided hope of being "rescued". I don't need a silverspoon failure as a leader. I don't follow dimwits.
The Professor

[bhaiti11]

130. what bothers you the most?

is it the war? is it financial?

After all Professor, we're still living in the greatest country in the world. I am sure you wouldn't want to be anywhere else despite your criticism...

[ProfessorGAC]

132. What Bothers Me Most?

The economy is not healthy. I'm an economist and i can tell you that reports otherwise are coming FROM the gov't, and they are paid to paint a rosy picture.

Secondly, this guy LIED to us. Lied! And, if it's not a lie, it's a gross degree of incompetence.

Lastly, it doesn't matter where i live. There is ALWAYS room for improvement. Always! And, under this governmental philosophy, we're going backwards, not forward. That's not improvement, it's deterioration. That is patently unacceptable.

I am not a coward, and therefore, i have no desire for a tough talker who accomplishes nothing. If you actually did some research, you'd find that the United States has been stuck in the mud, or going in reverse for 5 years.

That's what bothers me most. What bothers me ALSO, is an unaccomplished twit getting to be presdient because his daddy is well connected. This isn't a monarchy. I resent his ascension to a position miles above his capability because of his last name.

Next question.
The Professor

[bhaiti11]

136. beautiful!

Well Professor, I support your facts. This is history. Do you think this country would have been better without this president? This is about power. And money is power. You and I may suffer a financial depression such as the poor. For those with power (money) they certainly won't see it the way you do. Only the "have-not" are hurting the most. YOu stated "There is ALWAYS room for improvement" what needs to be improve? the system or the cash-flow?

[ProfessorGAC]

137. Answers

Do you think this country would have been better without this president? Absolutely. I believe he is an empty suit who not only isn't really running things, but is surrounded by people like himself, who don't have the foggiest idea how the middle class and poor live. In addition, almost all these guys ran companies that approached or filed bankruptcy, so they don't understand anything about the long term ramifications of excess leverage on a system.

what needs to be improve? the system or the cash-flow? First the cash flow. No country in the modern age (and i mean NO country) has ever achieved economic dominance and sustainability without a burgeoning middle class. Movement of available cash upward dilutes that leverage badly. A strong, vibrant middle class stabilizes consumption, assures a highly productive workforce, and increases the velocity of money which helps to keep pricing and wage pressures down. Everyone makes money that way, and the need to borrow at the federal level to sustain operations falls. All good results.

As to the system, there is nothing inherently damaging about a strong economic country moving small pockets of wealth around to assure that everyone is at least maintained at the sustenance/shelter level. People who have never lived in a home that they didn't pay for in cash, and wasn't 10,000 square feet have no idea as to how others struggle. So, they think of everything as "theirs". In any major economy, very little is actually any one person's money. The money isn't backed by anything other than a promise of a future strong economy and a stable gov't. So, the money is, in a sense, OURS. All of it. It's just temporarily sitting in some people's accounts in much larger piles. As a result of this transitory nature of wealth, it is superior to assure that everyone has some, while still allowing some to have lots of it.

One major improvement would be to publicly fund federal office elections and rid the system of special interests that work against that which really moves a country forward.

That's enough for now, i think.
The Professor

[Dora]

129. That's handy.

"I don't have the time... what I know is strong enough." :rofl:

This is not a difference of opinion. This is a difference of intelligence, backbone, and self-determination, none of which seem to be too apparent in your posts.

[Name removed]

131. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Dora]

133. You better hope so.

Because you're not doing anything to help, you hapless sheep.

[Name removed]

134. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Dora]

135. Well, right now I'm calling out your sorry ass.

What are YOU doing?

[Name removed]

138. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Dora]

139. Ciao, loser.

[bridgit]

150. Dora, i seen this exchange from work but cannot post there...

thank you for pulling this dweeb out into the daylight :patriot:

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

154. Are you guys really that fuckung stupid? He works for us not the other way

around. BUSHIE, YOU'RE FIRED!

[ProfessorGAC]

125. Unbrilliant

I didn't vote for him. My complaint position is solid.

The majority did not vote for him the first time. Do some research!

Well, that didn't work did it. Your lack of knowledge is revealed.
The Professor

[Dora]

126. Get thee gone from this place.

1) A majority of people did not vote for Bush. Even the General Accounting Office has confirmed that the Ohio election procedures and results were highly irregular.

2) "Here we are" criticizing him because That Is What We Do Here on DEMOCRATIC Underground. Nobody here voted for him, EXCEPT FOR YOU.





Embrace the truth and the truth shall set you free.

[Strelnikov_]

140. I'm Sure Bob Barr Voted For The Great Leader

And is now voicing much concern.

Does a vote based on false promises and deception commit one to go over the cliff along with the politician who lied?

Considered the Reich-Wing ideology seems to be based around 'stay the course', your statement is at least consistent.

[Dora]

122. I think like you do.

I also believe that Bush is a tool and a puppet, and that he'll find himself out of office when he's no longer useful to the cause.

Who are "they?" My speculation is that Carlyle Group is part of "them", and because of that I'm concerned by Clinton's involvement with Bush Sr. Blair is already committed to joining Carlyle when he's no longer PM. The industrial war machine (Halliburton, KBR, Bechtel, CACI, etc.) is also part of "them."

I believe that it's essential Bush no longer be president, but that sets the stage for even more criminal activity. What could happen? I think we're about to invade Iran, and that Bush will be out and Cheney will be at the helm. I don't know that They're thinking about "long term." They could just be thinking of how much profit can be made and international damage done in the next two years before we have a full-bore national revolution at the polls and in the marketplace. I don't think the War Machine crew is capable of making actual plans. IMO they're more reactive and reactionary than they are proactive and responsive. To me, what's at issue is 1) the fragility of our national economy, and 2) the possibility of living in a police state on U.S. soil.

I also think this wicked "them" crowd is not beyond staging an event or the illusion of an event, rather like screaming "fire" in a crowded theater, when there's no fire at all. Look at the avian flu hysteria from just a few weeks ago as an example, and Bush was even talking about how martial law would be important if a quarantine was needed.

Sigh. Tinfoil pajamas: crunchy.

[porphyrian]

123. Tag the lame duck with all the garbage, everything's wiped clean...

...when he leaves office.

It certainly is a strategy I'd attempt if I were them.

[Dora]

127. It's the perfect excuse.

The political equivalent of "the dog ate my homework."

[Maine-ah]

142. Here's something that could scare you

1. Bush impeached
2. Cheney President
3. Condi Vice President
4. Cheney steps down for health reasons/is impeached/dies
5. Condi President

:tinfoilhat: my nightmare.

[Raydawg1234]

144. I guess everyone is using fear tactics today, even us

"There is nothing to fear but fear itself"

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

146. Please, Indulge Me Kind SIr

As to what fear tactic is being used here. A tactic by definition would imply that I had some goal in mind that I wanted to achieve by using fear as the primer. I would like to know just what goal it is that you feel I have? This thread (started yesterday, btw) was originally done to question other DU'ers to see if they had a strange gut feeling of the events lately as well. No tactic there that I can see. The goal there was to gain information, and the primer was simply asking the question. So it was an 'ask a question' tactic, not a fear tactic. But I'm curious, if you don't mind indulging me, as to what on earth kind of fear tactic you were trying to imply?

Thanks.

:hi:

[Raydawg1234]

147. I was not talking about your goals, I was just emphasizing the power

of fear as a tool for influencing thought.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

148. That's the point. I ask you to explain please

What is it I am trying to influence? You seemed to imply that I was using fear as a tactic to influence something. What is it you are under the impression I am trying to influence? That's all I'm wondering.

on edit: I apologize if I'm completely misunderstanding your intent, but it just comes off to me (your original post) that you were stating I am using fear tactics. I just don't understand what you meant to imply by that is all :)

[dusmcj]

145. In Watergate they ditched Agnew first

it occurred to me last night as I thought about impeachment. Cheney would be worse than Doober, but the government would collapse and then there would be civil war as bunker boy went open with a fascist police state. But it would be better if Cheney were impeached before Doobie.

[tavalon]

168. Cheney has heart problems and

I sense that he wants to spend more time with his family and yadda, yadda, yadda. I think he will be resigning soon. Gut feel. The PNAC people have a lot more control if they don't have to put up with the line of succession BS.

[robertpaulsen]

149. WARNING: Major tinfoil hypothesizing in this post.

Let's start with a little known incident that happened in Florida on September 11, 2001:

At about 6 a.m. Sept. 11, Longboat Key Fire Marshall Carroll Mooneyhan was at the front desk of the Colony Beach & Tennis Resort as Bush prepared for his morning jog. From that vantage point, Mooneyhan overheard a strange exchange between a Colony receptionist and security guard.

A van occupied by men of Middle Eastern descent had pulled up to the Colony stating they had a “poolside” interview with the president, Mooneyhan said. The self-proclaimed reporters then asked for a Secret Service agent by name. Guards from security relayed the request to the receptionist, who had not heard of either the agent or plans for an interview, Mooneyhan said.

The receptionist gave the phone over to a nearby Secret Service agent, who said the same thing — no one knew of an agent by that name or of any poolside interview.

The agent told the occupants of the van to contact the president’s public relations office in Washington, D. C., and turned them away from the premises, Mooneyhan said.

In light of the attacks, Mooneyhan wonders if what he witnessed is related to the events of Sept. 11.

more...

http://www.longboatobserver.com/showarticle.asp?ai=1874

Coincidentally, the request for the interview with Bush is the same modus operandi used in the death of an anti-Taliban general in Afghanistan. On Sept. 9, Afghan opposition leader Ahmed Shah Masood granted an interview to two men who claimed to be reporters in the town of Khwaja Baha-Uddin, according to BBC News. Once close to Masood, one of the men received permission to use his video camera. The man then picked up the video camera and it exploded, dealing a fatal blow to both Masood and the suicide bombers, reported BBC news.

http://www.longboatobserver.com/showarticle.asp?ai=1923


Funny, I don't remember seeing any of this in the 9/11 Commission Report. You would think if the FBI investigated this, there would have been some sort of follow up. If anyone can provide the official FBI report investigating this, I'd appreciate it. Otherwise, please join me in my dive into the deep end of the tinfoil pool:

Crossing the Rubicon
Simplifying the case against Dick Cheney

by
Michael Kane

January 18, 2005 (FTW) - In an argument of over 600 pages and 1,000 footnotes, Crossing the Rubicon makes the case for official complicity within the U.S. government and names Dick Cheney as the prime suspect in the crimes of 9/11. Since the publication of this book (to which I had the privilege of contributing a chapter), many people have asked to hear the case against Cheney argued "short & sweet."

I will make it as short as possible, but it can never be sweet.
There are 3 major points made within this book that are crucial to proving Cheney's guilt. I shall first list them and then go on to prove each point as laid out in Crossing the Rubicon.

1. Means - Dick Cheney and the Secret Service: Dick Cheney was running a completely separate chain of Command & Control via the Secret Service, assuring the paralysis of Air Force response on 9/11. The Secret Service has the technology to see the same radar screens the FAA sees in real time. They also have the legal authority and technological capability to take supreme command in cases of national emergency. Dick Cheney was the acting Commander in Chief on 9/11. (Click here for a summary of these points)

2. Motive - Peak Oil: At some point between 2000 and 2007, world oil production reaches its peak; from that point on, every barrel of oil is going to be harder to find, more expensive to recover, and more valuable to those who recover and control it. Dick Cheney was well aware of the coming Peak Oil crisis at least as early as 1999, and 9/11 provided the pretext for the series of energy wars that Cheney stated, "will not end in our lifetime." (Click here for a summary of these points)

3. Opportunity - 9/11 War Games: The Air Force was running multiple war games on the morning of 9/11 simulating hijackings over the continental United States that included (at least) one "live-fly" exercise as well as simulations that placed "false blips" on FAA radar screens. These war games eerily mirrored the real events of 9/11 to the point of the Air Force running drills involving hijacked aircraft as the 9/11 plot actually unfolded. The war games & terror drills played a critical role in ensuring no Air Force fighter jocks - who had trained their entire lives for this moment - would be able to prevent the attacks from succeeding. These exercises were under Dick Cheney's management. (Click here for a summary of these points)

more...

http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/011805_simplify_case.shtml


What's my point? Perhaps Cheney set the puppet up. Perhaps he was responsible for the foiled interview and in response steered the puppet in the direction of conducting warrantless wiretaps in the name of national security.

When you say 'THEIR' plot, I translate THEY as PNAC. Cheney is PNAC, the puppet is not. Pre 9/11 he was quite expendable, but after the public response to his standing on the WTC ruins with a bullhorn, THEY thought he was worth a second term. But Cheney has more ambition than any of THEM, perhaps with the exception of Jeb. There might be a charge of nepotism if the puppet were to choose Jeb in the wake of Cheney resigning due to "health problems". But there wouldn't be if President Cheney were to select Jeb as Number Two.

Then again, perhaps THEY are bringing down the whole administration so that when Hillary gets "elected" in 2008, the Rethuglican Party and MSM can crucify her and the whole Democratic Party for not saving the nation as we slide down the backside of Hubbert's Curve in the wake of Peak Oil. Then we'll get Jeb "Mabus" Bush in 2012.

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[ddeclue]

152. Nope... I think he's a screw up who got caught and then confessed on TV..

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