So My son's JROTC Commander hopes the wiretaps continue

[MissMillie]

He's retired Navy. I didn't think of it until after I left, but I think I should ask him just why he even bothered.

He spends 20 years in the Navy fighting for his country and for the freedoms that make this country the great land that it is, and then he turns around and hands over those freedoms to President Cokehead just because Pres. Cokehead says he has to. No checks, no balances.... nothing.

Seriously.... why even bother? If the Fourth amendment is expendable, what makes the first not expendable? Or the Ninth? Or any of them?

And if they're expendable... why bother?

He says if it keeps us safe, it's ok.

"I know not what course others may take, but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!"

[ananda]

1. I'd get in his face and say:

All right, then, don't -ever- tell me or anyone that you joined up to defend our nation's liberties.

Just say the truth: you're fighting for fascism and a dictator.

[Walt Starr]

2. I'd yank my son out of that class

and I spent my high school years very involved in JROTC.

[alcibiades_mystery]

3. The argument is laughable

Drugs kill far more people in the US every year than terrorism. So, wouldn't general wiretaps without warrants on suspected drug dealers homes also "keep us safe."

Maybe they would say yes to that too, but then why bother with due process of law at all. They circumvent the judiciary in order to arrogate more unchecked power to the executive. It's well-known what this is called.

Fascism.

[Spinzonner]

21. The legal argument is valid but

but the drug-death comparison is a bit specious.

The issue is not not how many have been killed by past attacks but how many might be killed by a future one using WMD's or other mass-casualty methods.

[Lex]

4. You should ask him if that same power would be ok if a Democratic

President authorized spying on US citizens at his own discretion.

Usually that makes their eyes bulge out of their sockets.

Honestly, I don't think they even think that far ahead.

[Up2Late]

14. Excellent Idea!

You might actually knock the wind out of him with that one.

[azmouse]

5. Reading that just makes me want to hit my head against a wall.

Why don't these people get it? :banghead:
You can't give up your freedom. You'll never get it back!

[XNASA]

6. What is "safe"?

Does this person carefully monitor what they eat? Drink? Do they drive a vehicle that is not only the safest mode for transportation for themselves, but for others that they may collide with?

Are they in the best physical condition that they can be in? Have they done everything they can to ensure their own safety on a daily basis? If not, he's just a paranoid hypocrite.

That's what gets me.

[Catchawave]

7. Whoa....my son's an "air marshal".....

Not real DU friendly either, imho. Kerry-on, *snork*

[Lerkfish]

8. does your post come with a decoder ring?

not sure I understand.

[Name removed]

17. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Lerkfish]

22. I merely didn't understand your post

I've since figured it out, though, I think. But You were writing shorthand and expecting people to fill in things you left out.
Sometimes it helps to look at your post as if someone were looking at it the first time, without knowing past history of unrelated threads.

I can do without the name-calling though.

[The_Casual_Observer]

9. That guy would find out how "safe" he is when the wires get

crossed and they mistakenly finger him as a terrorist. By the time it was all sorted out the guy's life would be ruined.

[Gregorian]

16. Or when his neighbor calls the FBI on him in an angry spat.

THAT is why we have a fourth amendment.

[Daphne08]

10. Then, why did my father fight the fascists in WWII?

He would be outraged if he were alive today! Outraged.

[adigal]

11. Ask him how we will feel when President Hillary

holds this power - ha! That should make his head spin!

[patrice]

12. Why do "we" assume that Military people are somehow more evolved

than other people?

Some of them *are* relatively noble, but certainly not all of them. It could be, like the police, that this is a career field that attracts people with some seriously regressed motives.

I know it risks being flamed for saying so, but there is a great deal that bad leadership would not be able to do if there weren't so many people willing to *Kill*, or to help others Kill, for a paycheck, or for college tuition, or for their "Buddies", or "Democracy", or whatever "higher" cause that gets them off.

[Arkansas Granny]

13. Bush is so fond of reminding us that the terrorist hate us because

of our freedoms. Maybe he thinks that if he just negates our freedoms, the terrorists will like us more. Then he could say that he was doing it for our own good.

[Up2Late]

15. Most likely the 2nd and the 5th are the only ones he cares about.

Great leadership. :eyes:

[BuyingThyme]

18. Traitor.

Another John McCain.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

19. We called them "lifers" when I was in.

They couldn't get a real job so they let Uncle Sugar pay their way and kissed butt on command.

[neweurope]

20. While I absolutely get your point - and agree with you - I have grave

problems with your phrase "He spends 20 years in the Navy fighting for his country and for the freedoms that make this country the great land that it is".

Please look at where and why and for whom that guy fought for twenty years. You really still think it was for "the freedoms that make this country great"?

--------------

Remember Fallujah

Bush to The Hague!

[Reciprocity]

23. Like someone said on another thread...

<snip>
"So, when Hillary is President, it will be ok for her to listen to the communications of U.S. citizens... I'd be listening for clicks on the line if I were you!"
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x5638468

[Doctor_J]

24. I think we need to confront the fact

that hate radio and cabal "news" have convinced at least 40% of the people that spying on citizens is a good thing to do. And they will continue to push the envelope wrt what they will do to dissenters.