What In The Fuck Is It About ANWAR?

[ThomWV]

What is it about the ANWAR that they want so much? There can't be that much oil there! Why on earth are they willing to invoke a true Constitutional crisis to drill there. This is insane!

[Toots]

1. There are billions of dollars worth of oil there

That is what they want. Money money money money money. No concern for America or we would be hearing about alternative energies but no it is oil oil oil and only oil because that is what the Republican Party is heavily invested in.

[kenny blankenship]

33. More of interest to oil drilling SUPPLY companies, such as--wait for it...

Halliburton.

ANWAR's oil reserve is more scattered in pockets and more ifficult to extract than the larger Prudhoe Bay reserve next door. Prudhoe is where most of Alaska's "North Slope" oil has come from. However more than half of Prudhoe's petroleum will be left in the ground under test holes because it's simply too difficult to extract, the pockets are too small the oil chemistry is too poor, making it unprofitable until oil prices soar much further.

For ANWAR's oil to make a difference, there would have to be so much there that it lowers the overall GLOBAL PRICE OF OIL.

This it will NEVER do, until maybe Saudi crude gets so scarce that it costs $200/BBL.

There is probably less than half of the theoretical reserve of Prudhoe Bay in ANWAR and it is even more scattered and difficult to extract.


There is also the limiting factor of the Trans Alaskan Pipeline. Running at about half capacity now, it can only pump at a given capacity. Oil from ANWAR, like Prudhoe Bay or like any other North Slope field MUST pass south through that pipeline just in order to be shipped by tanker from Valdez. Less than half of the oil in ANWAR is even going to be economically feasible to produce short of a disaster that wipes Saudi Arabia out of the oil producer picture. And no matter how many wells were drilled in ANWAR, no matter how fast you drilled them, they could only dribble oil into the world market at the rate limited by the max capacity of the Trans-Alaskan. There is no mystery about this economically: it will NOT matter.

Besides a miracle putting more oil in the ground at ANWAR than was found in Prudhoe Bay, The ONLY OTHER WAY that ANWAR's oil could become a beneficial tonic to the American economy is if the U.S. Government semi-nationalized Alaska's oil, forcing the oil companies to sell it into the US market only and AT A GOVERNMENT MANDATED DISCOUNT, as happens in states with tons of oil like Venezuela.

I think we all know that is something that could NEVER happen in America, as long as the powers that rule it, and have ruled it since its founding, are demolished.

[iconoclastNYC]

2. Someone was promised it.

Give us campaign cash and we'll give you ANWR. Someone very powerful wants what they were promised. If the Republicans can't keep up thier end of these "bargains" then they'll lose thier deep pocketed buddies.

Plus I'm sure that kickbacks are involved and the dirty Abramoff types want to get paid.

[KansDem]

3. I used to think there was more to it than oil...

Alaska is rich in minerals. I used to think that ANWR was just a "foot in the door," a way of eventually getting at the mineral wealth. Strip mining in Alaska would seem less distasteful if there were a few oil wells already pumping up there.

Also, it would do much to break the back of the environmental movement in this country.

But now, I don't know. I can't imagine why Bush would be willing to sneak ANWR drilling into a bill that has already been signed off on by committee members. I know the GOP must be angry since they haven't been able to do this legally, but this latest stunt is beyond the pale...

[rd_kent]

9. You got it!!!

Its all about a foot in the door.

[freethought]

13. I believe there is more to it as well

Every year Alaskan residents get refund checks from the state. These refunds are paid for with oil revenues and with areas like Prudhoe Bay on the decline, Alaskans are loathe to give this up.

I do agree that this would put a major defeat on the environmental movement, something the hard right has ALWAYS despised.

For the oil companies and their cronies in Congress I believe that this is us much symbolic as it is about money and profits. It would be their greatest thrill to gloat, beat their chest, and be triumphalits. They can flip the bird to the conservationitst at the very least. At the worst they can now plot course for pummeling more environmental protections.

[blindpig]

29. I think you're right.

While greed is always a reason in itself there is something about the persistance and vehemence of the likes of Stevens and Pombo that is more resemblant of mental illness or a frustrated adolecent personality. The kind of person who goes out of his way to run over a turtle. It's why they got the job of being front men for the destruction of the environment. And while they're bad their masters are worse.

[IndyOp]

4. We *will* wear you down until you submit to *anything* we want...

It is rape, pure and simple. We will make you do what we tell you to do. You will submit. To *everything* we want.

The fucking oil companies don't *want* to drill there - it will be more expensive than it is worth.

Rape.

[ThomWV]

5. I have seen that mentioned befor. Do You have more information?

I have seen it said that the difficulties (=expense) of drilling at such high latitudes is so great that the oil companys really aren't all that interested - or at least they weren't at $17 oil.

[IndyOp]

6. I don't have link handy, I saw several pieces on it after

ANWR went down the last time. You might try looking at National Resource Defense Council website... or just googling...

:hi:

[Rex]

7. Despite the cold and vast empty spaces, Alaska has a huge

strategic value. Getting Halliburton and Bechtel up and running in the ANWAR would mean spying on a host of new regions. It would mean billions in profit for Cheney and the cronies. Every state has to get fucked up by these Robber Barons, even Alaska!

[insane_cratic_gal]

8. it's 83% of Alaska's Economy

that's why they want it so badly.

83 percent!

[realFedUp]

15. Senator Cantwell laid it out pretty clearly. nt

[insane_cratic_gal]

16. yes she did!

I used her numbers, but there are the others that suggest it's up to 90 percent. I was impressed with her bluntness

[LSK]

17. i dont know about that, tourism and fishing is pretty big too

[insane_cratic_gal]

20. With Anwar it becomes like a ME country

Living fat off the profits. Except I don't think the actual residents get the cash.


Although the economic history of Alaska is dominated by cycles of natural resource exploitation, the state economy today is dependent on oil and the federal government for about 2/3 of all jobs and income. The combined contribution of the traditional resource sectors of fishing, timber, mining, and agriculture is about 1/6 of total economic activity. The product of this study is a model that gives us a better understanding of the importance of each basic industry in the structure of the Alaska economy as well as differences across economic regions in the state


http://www.alaskaneconomy.uaa.alaska.edu/nonrenew/nonrenew.htm

Alaska’s most important traditional industries are seasonal, unpredictable, and often dangerous “boom-and-bust” industries. Fur-trapping and mining were its earliest industries, followed by fishing and lumber. Traditional gold mining has been replaced by the high-tech recovery and transportation of oil and natural gas, which are nonrenewable resources; in other words, they will not last forever.

All sectors of Alaska’s economy are natural resource-based. Oil transported by the Alaskan Pipeline, from Prudhoe Bay to the port of Valdez, is of greatest importance to the state’s economy but indications are that the supply might be drying up. Currently, oil revenues supply 85% of the state budget. Every Alaskan resident receives a yearly payment of about $1,000 from an oil-funded “permanent fund dividend.”


http://www.questconnect.org/ak_alaska.htm

[Maeve]

10. The wildlife up there works for al-Qaeda, don't you know

Either that or they're just liberals!

[Lexingtonian]

11. It's the legalizing of land theft/rape

from national protection and national consensus. It's the institution of a right to steal and effort to destroy a public interest they hate (the environmental movement) in the process, just like taking land away from Indian reservations a century ago.

It's behavior that follows from a theology of ego, desecration, and purist materialism- the Earth exists in order to be wasted and consumed by Us, in that theory of the world.

[TahitiNut]

12. North Slope oil doesn't keep the pipeline in business.

They're not producing enough to make the pipeline profitable. They want more. More. More.

[yurbud]

14. It's like abortion--a high profile distraction that Dems are allowed to

win.

The oil would be sucked dry in a couple of months.

The symbolic victory for Dems is supposed to make people overlook their capitulation on other issues.

[TheFarseer]

24. This isn't a distraction

This is a legit argument. The problem is, we need to have a real debate over this instead of trying to sneak it through in a defense bill. Are we going to spoil areas like ANWR for the last drops of oil or are we going to get serious about conservation and alternative energy? If we were going to drill AND invest heavily in alternative, I *might* be for drilling, but this allows them to completely miss the point and lead Americans to think the problem is solved when it most certainly is NOT solved.

[yurbud]

27. the part you mentioned about alternatives never gets play which makes this

a distraction.

The damage done to that area does not compare to the damage done to the country as a whole by ignoring the broader energy picture.

I would rather not see them drill there.

I was just putting the issue in context. Haven't you noticed we go this little dance about ANWR every once in a while, but it never gets done? If it really mattered to big oil, they'd already be there.

[blm]

18. It keeps the liberals/activists distracted while they push the rest of the

fascist agenda through.

[mitchum]

19. And that is the correct answer, blm

[Cleita]

21. I think the foot in the door rationale is the real one as another

DUer put it. Also, when I visted Alaska for a time forty years ago, it was before the pipeline was built. Alaskans were against it because they didn't want the immigration it would bring. Most Alaskans live there to be away from civilization.

You can be sure this would bring more immigrants from the lower forty-eight. I am surprised the Alaskans aren't fighting this tooth and nail. They really need to fire their Senator Ted Stevens for selling them down the river. But of course it's another state of Republicans who vote agains their own best interests.

The reason given for developing our domestic oil is so we won't be at the mercy of foreign countries withholding oil from us. This is BS. The only time countries withhold resources from other countries is during times of war like in WWII or sanctions like we did to Saddam.

This makes me wonder if it isn't part of the overall plan to conquer the world. Oil rich nations might place sanctions on us while we are starting wars all over the place and this could be a temporary measure for oil until we conquer those nations like Iran and other gulf oil states to install puppet governments and have access to their oil.

[ComerPerro]

22. There are many reasons that they want it

One, it shows that they will stand up to those evil environmentalists.

Two, it makes it look like they have a plan for the looming energy crisis.

Three, and this is always one of the principal motivators for Republicans: money. There is lots of oil there, and they can control who gets to drill. Cash and favors for Bush loyalists in the oil business.

[Gregorian]

23. Isn't that oil going to Asia?

I think people need to realize that ANWR drilling is not going to fill our tanks with gas.

I could be wrong. But i have heard as much.

[Cleita]

25. Good point. Find out where our domestic oil is going first.

This is what the Repukes have done to our forests. They are selling our logs to Asia to be milled and then buying them back for our construction uses. All those mill jobs have gone overseas.

So are they shipping the crude oil to Asia to refine it and sell it back to us?

[FreedomAngel82]

26. I guess it'd be

some sort of victory. :shrug: I remember when this first debate began reading how there were oil companies against going there because it wouldn't be worth it. There's only a few months of oil there if that. And if ANWR was so wanted by the public why would they attach it to another spending bill? Why not have it be it's own bill? What are they hiding?

[Jara sang]

28. It is a core issue with Democrats

It is symbolic of the bully Republicans kicking sand in the face of the Dems on the beach.

[crispini]

30. Repub strategy: attack your enemy's strength.

If they can drill in ANWAR they can drill anywhere.

[rman]

31. I think it's the only source left that's on US territory.

And all the really large oil fields are past production peak.
All in all ANWAR is rather interesting.
Not that i'm saying it's reason they should drill there. But it stands to reason that it is to them.

[DrGonzoLives]

32. As I said elsewhere

It is no longer about energy anymore for the Republicans, it is about winning something. They're desperate for a moral victory.

EDIT: typo