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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-19-05 10:46 AM
Original message
Poll question: Are we becoming fascist?
I'm biased and believe it's on US.
What do you think?
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-19-05 10:49 AM
Response to Original message
1. Let's keep this poll kicked today.
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question everything Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-19-05 10:51 AM
Response to Original message
2. I think that you need to carefully define "fascist"
especially judging by the poll results, so far
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-19-05 11:03 AM
Response to Reply #2
5. I believe that would be arguing semantics.
But some of the elements I weigh are:
militarism
controlled media
privatization
revisionism via repetition of lies and misrepresentations
manipulation of religious, racial, class antagonisms
and maybe someone else can add to this list
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in_cog_ni_to Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-19-05 11:36 AM
Response to Reply #2
14. Here. 14 points of fascism.
Edited on Mon Dec-19-05 11:38 AM by in_cog_ni_to
14 POINTS OF FASCISM



1. Powerful and continuing expressions of nationalism

From the prominent displays of flags and bunting to the ubiquitous lapel pins, the fervor to show patriotic nationalism, both on the part of the regime itself and of citizens caught up in its frenzy, was always obvious. Catchy slogans, pride in the military, and demands for unity were common themes in expressing this nationalism. It was usually coupled with a suspicion of things foreign that often bordered on xenophobia.

2. Disdain for the importance of human rights

The regimes themselves viewed human rights as of little value and a hindrance to realizing the objectives of the ruling elite. Through clever use of propaganda, the population was brought to accept these human rights abuses by marginalizing, even demonizing, those being targeted. When abuse was egregious, the tactic was to use secrecy, denial, and disinformation.

3. Identification of enemies/scapegoats as a unifying cause

The most significant common thread among these regimes was the use of scapegoating as a means to divert the people’s attention from other problems, to shift blame for failures, and to channel frustration in controlled directions. The methods of choice—relentless propaganda and disinformation—were usually effective. Often the regimes would incite “spontaneous” acts against the target scapegoats, usually communists, socialists, liberals, Jews, ethnic and racial minorities, traditional national enemies, members of other religions, secularists, homosexuals, and “terrorists.” Active opponents of these regimes were inevitably labeled as terrorists and dealt with accordingly.

4. The supremacy of the military/avid militarism

Ruling elites always identified closely with the military and the industrial infrastructure that supported it. A disproportionate share of national resources was allocated to the military, even when domestic needs were acute. The military was seen as an expression of nationalism, and was used whenever possible to assert national goals, intimidate other nations, and increase the power and prestige of the ruling elite.

5. Rampant sexism

Beyond the simple fact that the political elite and the national culture were male-dominated, these regimes inevitably viewed women as second-class citizens. They were adamantly anti-abortion and also homophobic. These attitudes were usually codified in Draconian laws that enjoyed strong support by the orthodox religion of the country, thus lending the regime cover for its abuses.

6. A controlled mass media

Under some of the regimes, the mass media were under strict direct control and could be relied upon never to stray from the party line. Other regimes exercised more subtle power to ensure media orthodoxy. Methods included the control of licensing and access to resources, economic pressure, appeals to patriotism, and implied threats. The leaders of the mass media were often politically compatible with the power elite. The result was usually success in keeping the general public unaware of the regimes’ excesses.

7. Obsession with national security

Inevitably, a national security apparatus was under direct control of the ruling elite. It was usually an instrument of oppression, operating in secret and beyond any constraints. Its actions were justified under the rubric of protecting “national security,” and questioning its activities was portrayed as unpatriotic or even treasonous.

8. Religion and ruling elite tied together

Unlike communist regimes, the fascist and protofascist regimes were never proclaimed as godless by their opponents. In fact, most of the regimes attached themselves to the predominant religion of the country and chose to portray themselves as militant defenders of that religion. The fact that the ruling elite’s behavior was incompatible with the precepts of the religion was generally swept under the rug. Propaganda kept up the illusion that the ruling elites were defenders of the faith and opponents of the “godless.” A perception was manufactured that opposing the power elite was tantamount to an attack on religion.

9. Power of corporations protected

Although the personal life of ordinary citizens was under strict control, the ability of large corporations to operate in relative freedom was not compromised. The ruling elite saw the corporate structure as a way to not only ensure military production (in developed states), but also as an additional means of social control. Members of the economic elite were often pampered by the political elite to ensure a continued mutuality of interests, especially in the repression of “have-not” citizens.

10. Power of labor suppressed or eliminated

Since organized labor was seen as the one power center that could challenge the political hegemony of the ruling elite and its corporate allies, it was inevitably crushed or made powerless. The poor formed an underclass, viewed with suspicion or outright contempt. Under some regimes, being poor was considered akin to a vice.

11. Disdain and suppression of intellectuals and the arts

Intellectuals and the inherent freedom of ideas and expression associated with them were anathema to these regimes. Intellectual and academic freedom were considered subversive to national security and the patriotic ideal. Universities were tightly controlled; politically unreliable faculty harassed or eliminated. Unorthodox ideas or expressions of dissent were strongly attacked, silenced, or crushed. To these regimes, art and literature should serve the national interest or they had no right to exist.

12. Obsession with crime and punishment

Most of these regimes maintained Draconian systems of criminal justice with huge prison populations. The police were often glorified and had almost unchecked power, leading to rampant abuse. “Normal” and political crime were often merged into trumped-up criminal charges and sometimes used against political opponents of the regime. Fear, and hatred, of criminals or “traitors” was often promoted among the population as an excuse for more police power.

13. Rampant cronyism and corruption

Those in business circles and close to the power elite often used their position to enrich themselves. This corruption worked both ways; the power elite would receive financial gifts and property from the economic elite, who in turn would gain the benefit of government favoritism. Members of the power elite were in a position to obtain vast wealth from other sources as well: for example, by stealing national resources. With the national security apparatus under control and the media muzzled, this corruption was largely unconstrained and not well understood by the general population.

14. Fraudulent elections

Elections in the form of plebiscites or public opinion polls were usually bogus. When actual elections with candidates were held, they would usually be perverted by the power elite to get the desired result. Common methods included maintaining control of the election machinery, intimidating and disenfranchising opposition voters, destroying or disallowing legal votes, and, as a last resort, turning to a judiciary beholden to the power elite.



NOTE: The above 14 Points was written in 2004 by Dr. Laurence Britt, a political scientist. Dr. Britt studied the fascist regimes of: Hitler (Germany), Mussolini (Italy), Franco (Spain), Suharto (Indonesia), and Pinochet (Chile).


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Does any of this sound familiar? As America sinks deeper and deeper into corporate greed will this country continue to be a democracy by the people and for the people or will it be ruled by the few? Will the trinity of money, power and greed over come one of the greatest countries in the world? Only we, the people, can keep it free. SPEAK OUT AND LET YOUR THOUGHTS BE KNOWN...ONLY BY SILENCE WILL WE BE DEFEATED!


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"What no one seemed to notice. . . was the ever widening gap. . .between the government and the people. . . And it became always wider. . . the whole process of its coming into being, was above all diverting, it provided an excuse not to think for people who did not want to think anyway . . . (it) gave us some dreadful, fundamental things to think about . . .and kept us so busy with continuous changes and 'crises' and so fascinated . . . by the machinations of the 'national enemies,' without and within, that we had no time to think about these dreadful things that were growing, little by little, all around us. . .

Each step was so small, so inconsequential, so well explained or, on occasion, 'regretted,' that unless one understood what the whole thing was in principle, what all these 'little measures'. . . must some day lead to, one no more saw it developing from day to day than a farmer in his field sees the corn growing. . . .Each act. . . is worse than the last, but only a little worse. You wait for the next and the next. You wait for one great shocking occasion, thinking that others, when such a shock comes, will join you in resisting somehow.

You don't want to act, or even talk, alone. . . you don't want to 'go out of your way to make trouble.' . . .But the one great shocking occasion, when tens or hundreds or thousands will join with you, never comes. That's the difficulty. The forms are all there, all untouched, all reassuring, the houses, the shops, the jobs, the mealtimes, the visits, the concerts, the cinema, the holidays. But the spirit, which you never noticed because you made the lifelong mistake of identifying it with the forms, is changed. Now you live in a world of hate and fear, and the people who hate and fear do not even know it themselves, when everyone is transformed, no one is transformed. . . .You have accepted things you would not have accepted five years ago, a year ago, things your father. . . could never have imagined." :

From Milton Mayer, They Thought They Were Free, The Germans, 1938-45 (Chicago: University of Chicago Press, 1955)


on edit. Forgot link...http://ellensplace.net/fascism.html

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ohio_liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-19-05 11:37 AM
Response to Reply #14
15. I heard Malloy read that on the radio
It scared the bejesus out of me.
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in_cog_ni_to Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-19-05 11:39 AM
Response to Reply #15
17. I know. It really hits home.
sadly.:(
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dkofos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-20-05 04:35 PM
Response to Reply #14
53. Definitely a yes
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anarch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-19-05 11:54 AM
Response to Reply #2
19. how about carefully defining "we"
I'd like to think of myself as more of a resistor to fascism. The government, however, seems to be fascist.
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-19-05 12:12 PM
Response to Reply #19
23. Our nation, The United States of America-that's as in "we, the people"
Our country...
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anarch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-19-05 12:21 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. The United States of America is no more
That was a democracy...what we have now is a fascist junta that has staged a quiet coup. I voted for "we already are", by the way.

It's just that I refuse to identify with the current administration, or with anyone who supports them...I think maybe your point is that it is up to the American people as a whole to oust the fascists from our halls of government, and I agree. I certainly know a great many people who are not part of the junta, just misguided voters, who I would call fascists, but I don't identify with them.
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-19-05 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. I've been opposed to fascism for over 4 decades
so have many others-we are still The United States of America in name.
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Bushy Being Born Donating Member (267 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-20-05 12:46 PM
Response to Reply #25
49. The US of A has never been a democracy
But the Constitutional Republic is doing pretty bad these days, indeed.
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deutsey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-19-05 04:23 PM
Response to Reply #2
32. Mussolini's definition works for me
"Fascism should more appropriately be called Corporatism because it is a merger
of state and corporate power."
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-19-05 07:41 PM
Response to Reply #32
35. There surely is a lot of that in the administration of George W. Bush
also known as "The War President"
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yurbud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-19-05 10:21 PM
Response to Reply #2
37. Bushies ain't fascist: no cool uniforms
Yet
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question everything Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-19-05 11:01 AM
Response to Original message
3. Dupe, sorry
Edited on Mon Dec-19-05 11:03 AM by question everything
Whenever Bush is on TV this site s-l-l-l-o-w-s and I got an error message..

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Dhalgren Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-19-05 11:02 AM
Response to Original message
4. As I said one time before, Hannah Arendt lists the attributes of
fascist regimes; and Bush's government hits almost all of them...
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-19-05 11:07 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. It certainly appears that way to a lot more people today Dhalgren imo
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yurbud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-19-05 11:34 AM
Response to Reply #4
11. link?
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Dhalgren Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-19-05 01:18 PM
Response to Reply #11
28. Hannah Arendt's book, "The Origins of Totalitarianism"...
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derby378 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-19-05 11:08 AM
Response to Original message
7. Fascism is, in itself, a broad spectrum...
I'd say we're closer to the Spanish model under Franco than the Mussolini or Hitler models at present. But give us time...
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-19-05 11:20 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. I agree, there are many components to fascism
we may have a new model in the present administration of George W. Bush
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-19-05 11:30 AM
Response to Original message
9. The "press conference" has concluded-kick
:puke:
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benburch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-19-05 11:33 AM
Response to Original message
10. Why do you think I chose "White Rose" back in 2001?
I bought the http://www.WhiteRoseSociety.org domain name just before Bush's installation as "President" in 2000.

I was clear to me then that we had elected a Fascist.

People told me I was "crazy" and "overreacting".

I'm glad that people are finally realizing that I was right back then.

I just hope that it is not too late!
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justabob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-19-05 11:35 AM
Response to Original message
12. becoming? no, we have been there for quite a while now
Sieg Heil!
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yurbud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-19-05 11:36 AM
Response to Original message
13. We are on the edge on un-fascism but lack an opposition party
Right now we have a fascist foreign and domestic party, and one that only likes foreign fascism (and just a little at home).
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long_green Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-19-05 11:38 AM
Response to Original message
16. There will be no dramatic "last step"
like the suspension of elections. It will come in increments like that of this weekend. The revelation of some new enormity, the media framing the crime as a "debate," attention drifting away, another freedom lost, the noose gets tighter.
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Alcibiades Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-19-05 11:53 AM
Response to Original message
18. It's Christo-fascism
We are the world's first (predominantly) Protestant fascist state, and that gives American fascism a flavor all its own. Germany's always been (since the reformation, that is) evenly divided between protestants and catholics, and it's worth noting, of course, that Hitler was the latter. Thus, European fascism was colored by the intellectual heritage of Catholic reactionaries such as de Maistre, de Bonald, etc. The historical roots of American fascism are to be found in the Puritans, Cotton Mather and the like, whose spiritual descendants are busy rewriting history to turn men such as Franklin and Jefferson into Bible-believing Baptists.

Our fascism has a decidedly Calvinist flavor. Instead of a racial or national elite, we are to be ruled by those who god has blessed with his favor. And how are we to know them? Because they are rich. A Christian plutocracy.
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-19-05 11:56 AM
Response to Original message
20. Cool
a duh poll.
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-19-05 11:56 AM
Response to Original message
21. Too late, we already are
The law is whatever Bush decides it is.
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Strawman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-19-05 12:11 PM
Response to Original message
22. Has the public/media ever really cared about civil liberties?
It seems like they do in the abstract, but when it push comes to shove they will trade away the rights of others for promises of security regardless of whether it's bullshit or not.

Has the media ever really stopped those in power from restricting civil liberties?

This is just another battle in the never ending war between those who value liberty and those who don't. Is this really historically unique? Do we really think this is the last nail in the coffin?

There will always be these kinds of authoritarian personality types grabbing at power and people like us resisting them.
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LunaC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-19-05 12:16 PM
Response to Original message
24. Anyone who doubts that we've already crossed the threshold
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rman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-19-05 12:32 PM
Response to Original message
27. If it's fascism already, and it gets worse - then how would you call it?
There is a trend of increasing fascism, and it looks like its proponents are not satisfied yet.

I guess that can be filed under "semantics", but still i had to vote "we're getting there".
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-19-05 03:43 PM
Response to Original message
29. Lapham, the publisher of Harper's Magazine, has a lot to say on US Fascism
It's no joke. Like his mustachioed hero, the turd Bushler is totally cracked.



Lapham on US Fascism

by Lewis H. Lapham
Harper's Magazine: We Now Live in a Fascist State
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 13:34:38 -0700

Knowing the source of this piece makes it all the more disturbing. It is not every day that the editor of a respected national magazine publishes an essay claiming that America is not on the road to becoming, but ALREADY IS, a fascist state.... or words to that affect.

To help prepare you for what follows, here are the final sentence from this piece.... (I think we can look forward with confidence to character-building bankruptcies, picturesque bread riots, thrilling cavalcades of splendidly costumed motorcycle police.)

On message By Lewis H. Lapham Harper's Magazine, October 2005, pps. 7-9 "But I venture the challenging statement that if American democracy ceases to move forward as a living force, seeking day and night by peaceful means to better the lot of our citizens, then Fascism and Communism, aided, unconsciously perhaps, by old-line Tory Republicanism, will grow in strength in our land." -Franklin D. Roosevelt, November 4, 1938

In 1938 the word "fascism" hadn't yet been transferred into an abridged metaphor for all the world's unspeakable evil and monstrous crime, and on coming across President Roosevelt's prescient remark in one of Umberto Eco's essays, I could read it as prose instead of poetry -- a reference not to the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse or the pit of Hell but to the political theories that regard individual citizens as the property of the government, happy villagers glad to wave the flags and wage the wars, grateful for the good fortune that placed them in the care of a sublime leader. Or, more emphatically, as Benito Mussolini liked to say, "Everything in the state. Nothing outside the state. Nothing against the state."

The theories were popular in Europe in the 1930s (cheering crowds, rousing band music, splendid military uniforms), and in the United States they numbered among their admirers a good many important people who believed that a somewhat modified form of fascism (power vested in the banks and business corporations instead of with the army) would lead the country out of the wilderness of the Great Depression -- put an end to the Pennsylvania labor troubles, silence the voices of socialist heresy and democratic dissent. Roosevelt appreciated the extent of fascism's popularity at the political box office; so does Eco, who takes pains in the essay "Ur-Fascism," published in The New York Review of Books in 1995, to suggest that it's a mistake to translate fascism into a figure of literary speech. By retrieving from our historical memory only the vivid and familiar images of fascist tyranny (Gestapo firing squads, Soviet labor camps, the chimneys at Treblinka), we lose sight of the faith-based initiatives that sustained the tyrant's rise to glory. The several experiments with fascist government, in Russia and Spain as well as in Italy and Germany, didn't depend on a single portfolio of dogma, and so Eco, in search of their common ground, doesn't look for a unifying principle or a standard text. He attempts to describe a way of thinking and a habit of mind, and on sifting through the assortment of fantastic and often contradictory notions -- Nazi paganism, Franco's National Catholicism, Mussolini's corporatism, etc. -- he finds a set of axioms on which all the fascisms agree. Among the most notable:

CONTINUED...

http://www.organicconsumers.org/Politics/harpers101205.cfm



Keep spreading the word, DU. Maybe we'll put these turds back in the ground where they belong.
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kenny blankenship Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-19-05 04:03 PM
Response to Original message
30. I think we may be on the line right now-=today=-
Edited on Mon Dec-19-05 04:23 PM by kenny blankenship
if this latest outrage of the Constitution is allowed to stand, that's pretty much "game over". Bush is The Law. Congress can hand him the checkbook and go home.

Oh yeah, I forgot to add: Shut up and eat yer Fascism!
I've been saying (like many others) that we're living under a shadow of Fascism for most of the Bush years already, but it's been more of a warning. Now, just when it looks like Bush is out of gas in the polls, it seems like we're really in danger of momentarily heading over the edge. The Nazis were fading in popularity, too, when they made their move. And it was not just a coincidence: electoral politics had taken them as far as they were going to get. The public was becoming less enchanted with the Nazis and they were in danger of becoming just another party and not a transformatory movement, and so it was grab the brass ring right then or give up.

Bushler and co. have just grabbed the ring. The next month or two are going to decide where this country goes until...
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More Than A Feeling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-19-05 04:09 PM
Response to Original message
31. I believe we have definitely lost our democracy
Secret extra-constitutional executive orders that sidestep congress and the courts. A negligent congress that by and large does not respond to the will of the people, but to what they are afraid the media might say. A media that, on the whole, is actively hostile to giving the people the information they need to participate in governing. A large percentage of people that are more afraid of "terrorists" or so invested in party dominance or just don't care that has allowed these things to come to pass.

Whether or not we take our democracy back is another question altogether.
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-19-05 07:23 PM
Response to Original message
33. kick
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Marie26 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-19-05 07:25 PM
Response to Original message
34. Becoming, but not there yet. nt
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Nikia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-19-05 07:44 PM
Response to Original message
36. Approaching, but not yet there
When we are truly Facist, this website won't exist. I think that a big ploy in moving towards Facism is the Religious Right. They redefined what the prominent value in America is, Christianity instead of freedom, and they redefined what Christianity is for many, focusing on condemning people rather than helping them. The way to effectively have Facism is to redefine prominent value systems and make others meaningless. The ideals of the Daclaration of Independence and the Constitution along with the teachings of Jesus are direct contradictions to Facism so they had to be redefined.
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-19-05 10:38 PM
Response to Original message
38. I was wondering where you were. n/t
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unkachuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-19-05 10:41 PM
Response to Original message
39. seig heil....n/t
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imperial jedi Donating Member (192 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-20-05 12:30 AM
Response to Original message
40. kick n/t
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donheld Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-20-05 01:06 AM
Response to Original message
41. Excuse me,,,,,,,,,Excuse me! we already are fascist.
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fujiyama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-20-05 02:22 AM
Response to Original message
42. This week confirms
with no uncertain doubt that we are there.

Bush does what Bush likes.

The law means nothing to him or those close to him.

The rest are suspect.
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NMMNG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-20-05 02:58 AM
Response to Original message
43. We are already there
It just keeps getting worse week by week.
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readmoreoften Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-20-05 04:02 AM
Response to Original message
44. well, 5 freepers today looks like nt
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4freethinking Donating Member (148 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-20-05 10:29 AM
Response to Original message
45. I have
Edited on Tue Dec-20-05 11:07 AM by 4freethinking
to say yes. I encountered one person on this forum who's POV was utterly fascist in nature. For the most part the majority of people here at DU keep an open mind. That appeals to me. I think for the most part we are not aware of how fascism is used. Fascism is used to distort,ly, about someone's viewpiont in order to silence them.
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datasuspect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-20-05 10:31 AM
Response to Original message
46. becoming?
america has always had shades of fascism since the end of the 19th century.

the only difference is we had an opposition party at one time.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-20-05 11:19 AM
Response to Original message
47. Fascism With A Smile




Fascism With A Smile

"As I look at America today, I am not afraid to say that I am afraid."
– Bertram Gross, author of "Friendly Fascism"


Part I
By John W. Whitehead
The Rutherford Institute
1-17-5

No matter how much money George W. Bush allocates or how many great things he says about America in his State of the Union Address, the reality is that this country is in dire straits. And as it now stands, things will only worsen.

Unfortunately, most Americans do not realize the gravity of the problem because they are lost in a haze of drugs, alcohol and entertainment distractions -- numbed to the crumbling foundations beneath their feet. And our leaders are not advancing any real solutions to the disorder that surrounds us.

Such chaos eventually brings change. In the past, it has inevitably included authoritarian government -- which some fear is raising its ugly head in the U.S.

Former NYU professor Leonard Peikoff, for example, has argued that the trends toward authoritarian government of the Nazi kind are too apparent to be ignored. These were set forth in his 1982 book The Ominous Parallels. "The similarities," writes Peikoff, "cannot be shrugged off. America is moving toward a Nazi form of totalitarianism. It has been doing so for decades."

There are those who always say that it cannot happen here. That was also what many were saying in Germany in the 1930s. The Nazi's crimes were the official legal acts and policies of modern Germany -- an educated, civilized Western European nation. Much like the U.S. of today, it was a country renowned throughout the world for its industrial and cultural achievements. In fact, Berlin was the epitome of the modern city. Freedom in everything seemed to be the new clarion call in Germany. However, within a short time, Germany became part and parcel to some of the most barbaric acts ever perpetrated by a people.

What happened? The danger signals, much like today, were blazing like neon signs in the night. But they were not heeded, and those in the know miscalculated human nature crushed beneath the weight of chaos. Granted, we do not yet resemble the kind of authoritarian regimes of the past. But there are similarities, and alarm bells are going off that range from economic concerns to threats to our civil liberties, an increasing military presence in our daily lives, and an undermining of religion and the loss of traditional values.

CONTINUED...

http://www.rutherford.org/



Bush's granddaddy helped arm Hitler. After the war, Bush's granddaddy and pals helped rescue the worst NAZIs and bring them to America, including top jobs in the national security state. That should be taught in every grade school, let alone the universities.
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4freethinking Donating Member (148 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-20-05 12:28 PM
Response to Original message
48. Kick
NS
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-20-05 03:40 PM
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50. Deleted message
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-20-05 03:58 PM
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51. Deleted message
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Taxloss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-20-05 04:29 PM
Response to Original message
52. Oh, for pete's sake. 117 votes? Really, that's incredibly wrong.
If this is an accurate representaion of the mood of GD, this forum has lost all sense of perspective. Let's examine the evidence - you're posting on an internet forum that is strongly critical of the US government and haven't been thrown into a secret prison. The American media is slowly recovering from its post-911 stupor. Bush is polling 38%.

American political culture and American society have serious problems, but you're nowhere near fascist yet.

Is it fascism yet? Is it fuck. And saying it is demeans the victims of fascism.
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Chabs39 Donating Member (11 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-20-05 04:43 PM
Response to Original message
54. yes
yes
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AntiFascist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-20-05 04:56 PM
Response to Original message
55. What about this for a definition....

Michael Ledeen's universal fascist movement:

http://www.indymedia.ch/fr/2004/01/17406.shtml


Ledeen supports de Felice’s distinction between “fascism-movement” and “fascism-regime.” Mussolini’s regime, he says, was “authoritarian and reactionary”; by contrast, within “fascism-movement,” there were many who were animated by “a desire to renew.” These people wanted “something more revolutionary: the old ruling class had to be swept away so that newer, more dynamic elements-capable of effecting fundamental changes-could come to power.”


He makes it sound like such a positive thing, no? (It's still authoritarian and reactionary, no matter what he says)
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mandyky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-20-05 04:58 PM
Response to Original message
56. I chose #4
But we are not fascist but our government is, along with their supporters.
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-20-05 10:27 PM
Response to Original message
57. kick
:dem:
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-21-05 12:11 AM
Response to Original message
58. Slouching Toward Kristallnacht
An analysis that calls a gangster a gangster:



Slouching Toward Kristallnacht

by Maryscott OConnor
Tue Dec 20, 2005 at 10:08:19 AM PDT
crossposted from My Left Wing

A fascinating and terrifying excerpt of Milton Mayer's They Thought They Were Free: The Germans 1933 - 1945
Mayer, an American journalist of German/Jewish descent, says of his work:

"How could it -- the Holocaust -- have happened in a modern, industrialized, educated nation ? The genesis of my interest in the Third Reich lies in my search for an answer to that enigmatic question."

I know few people who haven't asked themselves the same thing. The first, most likely hypothesis is that most people didn't know what was happening to the Jews. I may be wrong, but I believe that's been shot down pretty decisively by now.

The following excerpt from Mayer's They Thought They Were Free... provides some pretty plausible clues (the emphases are mine)...

""What no one seemed to notice," said a colleague of mine, a philologist, "was the ever widening gap, after 1933,between the government and the people. Just think how very wide this gap was to begin with, here in Germany. And it became always wider. You know it doesn't make people close to their government to be told that this is a people's government, a true democracy, or to be enrolled in civilian defense, or even to vote. All this has little, really nothing to do with knowing one is governing.

What happened was the gradual habituation of the people, little by little, to be governed by surprise, to receiving decisions deliberated in secret; to believe that the situation was so complicated that the government had to act on information which the people could not understand, or so dangerous that, even if people could understand it, it could not be released because of national security.

SOURCE:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/12/20/12819/467#412



The NAZIs -- like today's neocon fascist rat bastards -- utilized the Big Lie. The difference today is they have TV and the Internets.
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