Secret Service 9/11 Coverup

[Shalomar]

The Secret Service has sat back and let the FBI and CIA take the heat for 9/11 intelligence mistakes. They resisted letting the Commission look at Interview tapes for the months before the attack. I know why. The SS had the clearest picture presented to them just before the attack; I can say with my own authority.

In the year 2000 I catered Candidate Bush's plane at KABE. That means I passed thru FBI and SS background checks. I remained a caterer all thru 2001. My dad is a pilot; I know how to "fit in" with them. I saw and heard some things; then I went to Washington and arranged to be interviewed by the Secret Service. I chose them because of their close ties to the pres and the fact that interview tapes are never destroyed. Sadly; I failed to brig my own tape recorder.

For the record; I do have a history of mental illness. After over 8 years without meds; I broke down in February 2002. The Secret Service waltzed into the hospital and told staff to notify when I was released. That helped to tip the scales; I wound up at State where Washington called the same day. The doc there was reluctant to release me even after he said I was in remission. The Secret Service appeared at a meeting where it was decided my FAA ramp certification would be revoked. I lost any chance at returning to a job I loved.

The only acknoweldgement of my trip to Washington by the Secret Service was for two agents to visit me in the State Hospital and ask me why I had not taken my car there. (Went by bus)

Since PA considers committment to be a civil proceeding; I had none of the protections a criminal defendant recieves when I was deprived of my liberty for months.

Even if I am crazy now; I said what I said in 2001. Put up or shut up; that's my line. I will sign whatever privacy waiver is necessary for my SS interview tape to be released to members of the 9/11 commission or the public.

It doesn't matter if I say more than this now; but I will not die a silent coward.

Donald Robert Traill

[rfranklin]

1. Link? Is this you speaking, Shalomar?

Where did this come from?

[Shalomar]

3. From my life

This particular post is on www.democraticunderground.com. I think you said you linked somehow. I have the same username on other sites.

Best Regards, Donny

[Lerkfish]

19. a google search found a similar cryptic message on Freerepublic

but I'm not sure I understand why you're posting this message on both DU and freerepublic?

what are you expecting to happen?

[carolinalady]

45. When I did my student nurse psych rotation at Lebanon Valley

VA hospital in PA, I was assigned to a patient who claimed he had regular contact with the Secret Service (this was back in the 80's however). Anyway, this story seems somewhat hauntingly familiar.

[az chela]

2. Wow!!!!

I hope you are safe and doing okay.That took guts to write and i want to be the first to say I believe you.
This government has made us all paranoid and I doubt that any of us are crazy,just informed.Sometimes I gues that old saying"Ignorance is bliss"is absolutely the truth.
Best wishes to you.

[Shalomar]

4. Safe and sound now

A simple Google will pin down my 10-20. I have made some honorable friends along the way; but this nightmare has gone on for far too long.

Best Regards; Donny

[OneBlueSky]

5. I have no idea what your story is, but I've always been more than . . .

puzzled by the actions of the Secret Service on 9/11 . . . shouldn't they have immediately moved Bush out of that classroom when it was learned that several airliners were hijacked? . . . how could they allow him to just sit there, not knowing the scope of the attacks or whether Bush himself was at risk? . . .

unless they DID know that he wasn't at risk, of course . . . and the only way they could know that is by knowing what was happening and who was behind it (and I don't mean Islamic terrorists) . . .

hope you have a chance to tell your story . . . I'd sure be interested to learn what you know . . . good luck . . .

[Shalomar]

6. Not my only contact

This interview was not my only foray into attempting to warn the government. Why do you think I insisted on going to the only agency where; if the tape is destroyed it will stink to high heaven? Many other people would not have died.

As for Bush's whereabouts on 9/11, I warned about the vulnerability of Air Force one and outlined a plan to attack it with missiles concealed in a bizjet's dummy wing fuel tanks. This was because I was concerned the Senior Bush would fly to Kuwait like Reagan did to Grenada. Ever since- Notice when Clinton went to Bosnia or Korea he made the final leg in a typical military transport?

I am trying NOT to discuss too much what is on this tape; otherwise so few will believe it will never come to light.

Best Regards; Donny

[elehhhhna]

7. please tell more.

[Shalomar]

8. GET THE TAPE FIRST

Start screaming. When the tape has been released I will tell all. All you have is the word of a mental patient.

Best Regards, Donny

[elehhhhna]

9. Uh, I don't think they're gonna gimme the tape. Can one file a FOI

request?

A teaser would help. Ya might also consider emailing rawstory.com if you want some help w/ this.

[Shalomar]

10. What's their addy???

A teaser- I said "the 20th hijacker" was involved before the attack. Where do survivors go when a plane goes down? Before 9/11 he was accused of a plot to bomb the terminals in LA and SFO. Where were the planes going??? 767 was a natural choice; as were domestic airlines. Air Marshal could have definitely stopped all but Flight 93.

Sorry- that is ALL you get.

[elehhhhna]

16. Go here:

http://www.rawstory.com/

Contact link's in the upper left corner.
You might enjoy reading them--they're generally spot-on (and ahead of the pack).

"Any enemy of the BA is a friend of mine",
E

[Al-CIAda]

17. [e-mail]

[e-mail]
-----
http://rawstory.com/

[FreedomAngel82]

47. Sometime try to google

for the article Bush's day on 9/11. It's a very strange story. And also the whole thing with the Pentagon is strange too. I don't know if anything was used to hit the Pentagon or if it was a bomb. I remember seeing a photo of two/three men around a mini Pentagon and seeing them point to the place where the Pentagon was attacked. I also remember a gas station down the road had their security cameras film the whole thing and right after it happened the FBI took the film. We never hear anything about the Pentagon attack but they sure do WTC and stuff. And than that plane that crashed that was supposed to hit the White House. I just think it was all planned by the neocons and with the help of the Saudi government. All you have to do is follow the money.

[jsamuel]

11. Very interesting. Of course you realize that we can't simply take the

word of a random internet person, but I don't see too much harm in following up on what you are saying.

[Shalomar]

12. Thanx. All I'm asking.

[e-mail]


I can respond with individuals who can confirm my occupation in 2001. And the fact that an interview occured.

[Beam Me Up]

13. Very interesting. Thanks for posting.

[pberq]

14. Many people have talked about the obvious

change of SOP by the SS on 9/11. So this would be very helpful to add some solid evidence.

[BuyingThyme]

15. If you're looking for places to send your story, these people

might welcome anything you have:

http://www.911forthetruth.com/

[e-mail]

Good luck to you.

[Shalomar]

18. Cleared to e-mail

If there is anyone whom you sincerely believe would be interested in this thread; feel free to use the "email this page thread". I did contact the two provided already; please keep them coming. To shake things up a bit I sent a "carbon copy" of my e-mail to philjberg to the White House!!!

[corbett]

20. Everyone Needs A Copy Of This Free DVD

https://secure.reopen911.org/freedvd.php

[BuyingThyme]

21. ?

[Shalomar]

23. Not my secret

Please; put yourself in my shoes. A mental patient has how much credibility? The Secret Service has the only copy of the tape; what can I do about it? Generate enough heat so the tape is made public. Why would you take my word for it anyway? If you are the type who would I am not after your support; with all due respect. What is so cryptic??? What matters is what I said in 2001; after all hindsight is 20-20.

Why am I posting here? Cuz I was BANNED from Freepers! Senator Charlie Dent was the first pol I contacted and he is a Republican. Do you think the Democrats will ride in on their white horses and save U.S.? It is way past time Americans take citizenship seriously again and stop letting their party do their thinking for them.

Enough preaching

Best Regards, Donny

[mikelewis]

22. Is this tape secret and can you reveal the contents of the...

interview?

[dutchdemocrat]

24. Link

http://forums.avsim.net/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=182&topic_id=175&mode=full

Donny AKA Shalomar
Fly 2 ROCKS!!!

My name is Donald Traill. Almost everyone EXCEPT my family calls me Donny. "Shalomar" is my Falcon callsign. It's the name of a less famous sword than King Arthur's Excalibur. I am 35 years old and was born in Allentown P.A. USA My father is a real world pilot and I remember vividly my first flight in a Cherokee 140. Later he moved up to an Aztec then a rockwell Turbocommander 690B. After that another Aztec, a Robertson STOL conversion. He held on to all of them till a ferry pilot had an engine fire and totaled the Robertson in the ensuing off-airport emergency landing. Walked away though. A few years ago an FBO agreed to do an anual for the 690B as a donation for a church with an orphanage in Haiti he provides transportation for. They haven't finished yet. My dad hasn't complained, he's getting free storage and the current numbers favor use of the Aztec. He got one to replace the Robertson, not STOL but turbocharged. He likes to "cut the corner" by flying direct to Port au Prince from Raleigh-durham and the new one has the range with a larger "cushion" than the original N1805Y.

We moved around a LOT when I was growing up, since then I've lived in New york. I currently split my time between Northampton PA and Philadelphia. I was a lighting technician, a helper for my brother who is a contractor, then a Carpet cleaner in New York, another stint with my brother, a carpet cleaner in Allentown PA and my previous job was an inflight caterer at KABE. My hours went from 40 to 70 when I became the only FAA certified truck driver on day shift. Then they plummetted to about 20 after 9/11 even though every driver on every other shift was laid off. Now back to working with my brother. I live in a 25 foot motor home and lease a campsite in Northampton but for the last few years have been in Philly for most of the week, commuting by car and staying at my brother's apartment.

My real world and sim flight experience: I was only ever a passenger with my father. I was sitting in the back seat and he let my brother fly. His version of events was we hit a signifigant downdraft, in any case none of us were ever allowed to take the controls again. I took some lessons but never did pass the medical. I've done everything but solo in Cessna 172's 152's and Piper Cherokee 180's. My favorite maneuver is minimum controllable airspeed. I am into Remote Control flying now. My first sim was Sublogic's original on a Commodore 64. Then an early Microsoft version on a PC. I did my most serious flying first on Sublogic's ATP. Spent a LOT of time with Falcon 3.0 after that. Didn't have a computer living In New York but shortly after getting my motorhome I got a deal on a Pentium 3 533 MGH. The tower fit right behind my Dinette cushion with extensions for the cables that were also long enough to put the monitor, mouse and joystick on the picnic table outside. Laptops didn't apeal to me. Then I went looking for a sim and FLY 2 caught my eye. Wasn't on the Internet so getting it working properly was a problem. TRI sent me patches on a CD and my sister let me burn files from Avsim on her computer. I first heard of Avsim from the TRI forum. Couldn't get Falcon 3.0 going, bought 4.0. Don't use it as much, very rarely do I land with the airplane unscathed. My favorite airplane is the Pilatus PCXII though I enjoy many others. Piston twins appeal to me because single engine work is more challenging. Recently bought PDMG's 777-200 IGW for FLY 2, still crunching the manual. But I still love a hop in a Citabria Decathlon or PA-19. Have INTEREST in Helicopters but there's a lot on my plate, both virtually and R/L. My computer is currently in Philly hooked up to my brother's DSL network. I will get Broadband over Powerline when it becomes available in Northampton, it's now in the next town over from my campground.

My virtual resume:

My parents weren't thrilled when I announced I wanted to spend my college money on Flight training. But they agreed on the condition that I pass the written before my first lesson and get my private certificate at a local FBO before going to a specialised school. I flew every day after work for three weeks whenever it was VFR. I then went to an academy in Pensacola FLA. My college fund took me thru IFR, Multiengine and even ATP certification in a BAE TR-800. As soon as I qualified I got my CFI rating which helped to stretch a lot by bringing in income. I was hired as a pilot by Outdoor World, inc. I then sent my resume to Southwest Airlines. The reply was that they require their pilots to have an aerobatics rating. So back to piston work in a PA-19 where I picked up a taildragger certificate too. Southwest accepted me as a copilot and I soon had a 737 type rating. Southwest is a strong advocate of cockpit teamwork and the "three challenge rule." A few years ago the FAA did a study in flight simulators. On aproach, the captain simply stopped flying but kept his hands on the yoke. An astonishing percentage of copilots said and did nothing till impact. The three challenge rule applies on takeoff and landing. If the copilot notices somrthing amiss he tells the captain, who MUST respond and correct. The copilot tells him one more time if no correction appears. If still no correction; "I have the airplane." This leads to preemptive confessions by the captain like "two degrees off glideslope, correcting." Both try to see things before the other does, it's "diamond cut diamond". Eventually I was a captain myself.

Bush flying always attracted me but seemed dangerous with little job security. I had obligations to my parents after they put me thru training and I had a secure job. Then 9/11, the resulting downturn and a documentary about operations in Alaska. I realised they are still the lifeblood of the region and that is not likely to change soon. When I saw BFU was hiring an idea hit me. I had vacation time coming and could apply for a leave of absence after that. I would be getting vacation pay for a while so under "desired salary" I put "try me for two weeks and pay me what I'm worth." So the Airboss said he'd give me a try. I rode a jumpseat from Pheonix to LAX then LAX to Seattle. I stayed overnite in Seatle. At 6:00 the next morning I went to the airport for my flight to Anchorage where the Airboss said I'd be picked up. The PA system told me to pick up the courtesy phone and it was the airboss.

"I saw what flight you were coming in on. Tired?"
"Not at all. I laid over."
"Stay there. I'm coming to pick you up, a green and white Decathlon. Something's come up..."

[dutchdemocrat]

25. Haiti

Stewart Traill's children were living at the Lamb House at the time -- 2 boys and one girl, Donald, Sonny, and Eleanor, respectively. The kids' mother had been divorced, and Stewart remarried a younger woman from "the flock". Another cult member, Jimmy Grinder, abused the youngest of the children, Donald. You see, Jimmy beat Donald repeatedly for a number of consecutive days as "discipline" for something "wrong" Donald was alleged to have done (I believe he was 13 at the time). Stewart was much too busy running a cult to raise his own kids, so he afforded that task to certain other members.

I did not discover the extent of the abuse until after I left, and saw it on a news show, complete with photos of poor Donald's buttocks - I had never seen anything so black-and-blue. Stewart did mention in passing what had occurred, and the fact that his kids were subsequently taken away and returned to their mother.

Also, reports of child-abuse came in as well from the orphanage in Haiti, which is maintained by COBU.

I left shortly after these events began taking place.

http://fred.mitchellware.com/skeptic/myself.html

[dutchdemocrat]

26. 'What Kind of Man...?'

Church of Bible Understanding (C.O.B.U.): A controversial network of churches, headquartered in New York, that historically has been charged with spiritual abuse due to legalism, undue influence, and control mechanisms.

http://www.watchman.org/cat95.htm#BibleUnder

'What Kind of Man...?'

In the early '80s, four COBU "brothers" were convicted in Philadelphia for beating Mr. Traill's youngest child, Donald, with a belt and a board. The boy, 12, at the time, was admitted to Children's Hospital in serious condition after the attack.

"We didn't want to hit him with the board," one defendant testified, "but the belt had no effect. We stopped when the board broke."

Why would they beat the son of the man they revered? The brothers said Mr. Traill ordered them to after Donald was accused of shoplifting. The judge sentenced each to five years probation. Mr. Traill was not charged.

"Of course he wasn't," says Beth Davies, 44, who joined COBU at 16 and left at 30.

"Stewart is always very careful to have someone or something between him and whatever goes wrong. He can say he didn't actually beat Donald, but think about it: what kind of person would order someone to do that to his own son?"

The kind who is cold to the suffering of others, according to Ron Burks, a clinical coordinator and counselor for Wellspring Retreat and Resource Center in Albany, Ohio. The nonprofit residential treatment for cult victims is the only facility of its kind in the United States.

"Stewart Traill is one of those rare people leading a group like this who is not terribly sincere," Mr. Burks says. "Most cult leaders are sincere. They're twisted, dangerous people, but they're very sincere. This person is not sincere. His thing started as a con, and I think he's come to believe some of his own con, but he's not sincere at all."

A respected authority on the psychological dynamics of cult leaders, Mr. Burks says his research points up "scary similarities" between Mr. Traill and habitual criminals.

"He fits the profile in that he seems to feel little remorse for the suffering of his followers," Mr. Burks says. "It doesn't seem to register with him that people are hurting. When people express their pain, it doesn't seem to get through, and that makes him one of the most frightening people I've ever heard about.

"For someone like that, the ends justify the means. People like that hook into the best of what it is to be human, and then betray it for their own benefit. That's what's so scary."

http://www.rickross.com/reference/understanding/understanding2.html

As an update for anyone who is curious-- They've expanded the Olde Good Things business to Baltimore, Washington DC, Los Angeles, and Chicago in the last two years. Also, their member count probably numbered at 100 when I was involved in July of 2004. Rob Whipple, son of Mr. Whipple who was a close friend of Traille's, at the age of 20, I believe, has finally left COBU to be with his father. Rob was the kid I met in LA who I was most interested by when I went with them. I am glad he is out.

http://www.factnet.org/discus/messages/3/3628.html?1128656815

hurch of Bible Understanding, Forever Family, Stewart Traill. This web site uncovers a lot of truth Stewart hid from the members of this church, now a cult.

The Forever Family and then the Church of Bible Understanding. The group that got underway in 1971 and grew tremendously during the 1972-1976 time period. Stewart Traill seemed determined to start a school. His first attempt in New York was a failure. It was called the Manhattan Training Center. Years later, he tried again with the Philadelphia Lamb House. It had promise. Eventually it also failed. Then Stewart created the Young Sheep House, The Middle Remedial program, and gave the left-overs to the "older" brothers and sisters (average age, 27). These also failed. Finally, Stewart woke up in 1989. He "missed" grace. He called a meeting and told everyone that the last 17 years were mostly, nearly, almost all wrong, kind of? Stewart found a new teaching. And guess what? Even though Stewart wrecked thousands of brothers and sisters in Christ, He still saw himself as pastor and leader of the Church of Bible Understanding. He never stepped down. He invented more teachings. The infamous Escape Recipe came about in the 1990's. He taught the brothers and sisters, who chose to stay on and follow, to hold the printed Escape Recipe over their heads and proclaim, I'm ---Your-Name_Here--- and I volunteer for the Lake of Fire." This, from the man who pastored a church for 17 years with brutal legalism, who repented of 17 years of false teaching,supposedly, who now then lead his flock with threats of Hell. What Amazing Grace! Another tragic teaching of Stewart's is the 1st John Meeting. Although denying perfectionism, Stewart laid the foundation of perfectionism. The old dog knew legalsim and couldn't learn a new trick or find real GRACE.

http://www.angelfire.com/nm/cobu/

[Garbo 2004]

27. Long 1999 Phillymag.com article on COBU and Stewart Traill here:

http://www.phillymag.com/Archives/1999June/cult_1.html

[Shalomar]

57. I have three sisters... how accurate

[dutchdemocrat]

29. ...my previous job was an inflight caterer at KABE.

We moved around a LOT when I was growing up, since then I've lived in New york. I currently split my time between Northampton PA and Philadelphia. I was a lighting technician, a helper for my brother who is a contractor, then a Carpet cleaner in New York, another stint with my brother, a carpet cleaner in Allentown PA and

my previous job was an inflight caterer at KABE.

http://forums.avsim.net/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=182&topic_id=175&mode=full

[Garbo 2004]

33. COBU's currently advertising for volunteer mechanics for its Aztecs

"Church with mission in Haiti needs experienced volunteer mechanics to maintain our Piper Aztec Model C (23-250) plus perform annual on Piper Turbo Aztec F plane. Our Aztecs are usually stationed at Ft. Lauderdale, Florida (FXE), but sometimes the turbo is stationed at New Castle, Delaware (ILF). We are involved in missionary work supporting 200 children in Haiti. Do volunteer work while job hunting. Unite with us in feeding the poor. Call Deborah or Susan at the church." http://www.aviationemployment.com/job-listings/list-jobs.cgi?id=266

[Peter Frank]

28. Friggin' Blah blah blah...

No credibility man.

[dutchdemocrat]

30. I don't think credibility is the issue

I would say a horrific childhood with a sociopathic father and mental health problems are.

He did work at KABE it appears - whether or not he catered to the president is another story.

Either way - I hope he is getting the help he needs and deserves.

Good luck Donald Robert Traill

dd

[Peter Frank]

31. No argument there...

...just gotta keep facts seperate from subjectivity. Our counterparts heve a real problem with this.

[dutchdemocrat]

32. I understand

He's been over at Freeperville too I see.

Even if it seems a democracy must fight with one hand behind its back, it still has the upper hand. So just how tenuous are the links going to get? How long till, if a judge can be convinced you have Al-Queida ties, will Gitmo tactics be used on American citizens? From the start, we have been shedding the princples we are supposedly defending. Gitmo detainees are not eligible for POW status because we are not at war. They are not eligible for civil trials because they are foreign nationals captured in a time of war. Huh??? It is a dirty secret just how many have been released from Guantanomo after it was realised they were not involved. Bet my bottom dollar they, or some who hear their story, will be making tracks to join up though!!!Isreal has backed off from use of torture, even if a bomb is ticking and innocents are at stake. It's a power far too open to abuse, and the end result is a lot of times you get told stuff you want to hear. But it could be an innocent trying to end his or her pain, or someone stalling with disinformation. The result is plenty of people tortured for nothing, and others more eager to fight because they, their friends or loved ones were tortured. There wre solid reasons for those Geneva accords.

That being said, I am astounded at the trouble lawyers go to for Al-queida. I am an American citizen, and I have been locked up for over a year without a proper trial. Nowhere in the Constitution of the United States of America is any distinction made between being deprived of your liberty in a prison or a hospital. But in Pennsylvania or New York, "Form 302" hearings are civil proceedings. Anything a patient says or does can be used against them when they are in the hospital- Miranda anyone??? Hearsay is admissable, no right to face your accuser and any staff member can write anything down with no threat of perjury. I requested a jury for my hearing to have my treatment extended past 72 Hours, it consisted of twelve staff members from my ward who were directly subordinate to the doctor who signed me in. I pointed this fact out to the judge, you can be sure. I also objected to hearsay, and was UPHELD. But the state did not appeal, the trial was a charade with a predetermined outcome and the status quo continues. It had all started a year and a half before, when I made the mistake of signing myself out of an egomaniac's care at a general hospital's mental ward. He told me then and there that I was going to the State Hospital. This was not an idle threat, and I heard him make it to other people as well. I made it without medication for over a year, but did eventually wind up in the emergency room again. That docs first words were, "He's gotta go to State." Hadn't even evaluated me yet! About a month later, at I gave up fighting and went to State just to get away from him. The doc there told my mother he would evaluate me further to be sure, "but he doesn't seem that bad. He should be released within two to three weeks." A week and a half later he transfrerred to another ward, and the new doc reevaluted me and tripled my meds. A month later he put me on Prolyxin. Every person I have seen on that drug has gotten more violent, and I had to take drastic measurements not to do likewise. When an argument over a TV channel left me shaking and wanting to pop someone half my size in the head, I went on a hunger strike till I got off Prolyxin. After some negotiation, I was put back on my old meds, at only double the dose the doc who planned to release me had me on. Months later, though I did not know it at the time, he appealed to the first doc saying "I don't know what to do with this guy!!!" The end result of that conversation was that I was transferred to an open ward. I got work priveledges, and when the time was right was on a bus to New York City by the time Security knew I was gone. I turned myself in at the Port Authority bus terminal, was examined at Roosevelt Hospital then released. Since I was across state lines and a New York doc said I was not a danger, I could not be taken back to the Allentown PA state hospital. Kidnapping, was the term used.These were not my only encounter, and a totally different doctor went so far as to complain to the FBI about my case.

Involantary commtitment is a favorite tactic of abusive life partners, those trying to get custody of children, relatives without the stomach for murder who want control of an estate. All under the American flag, to American citizens.

So it really burns my biscuits to see all the fuss you guys make over Al-Queida.

90% of people at commitment hearings are not charged with any crime. Shouldn't they get MORE protection, not less???

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1481032/posts?page=35#35

and

Mr President:

I have nothing to hide, but perhaps the Secret Service does. I would not mind my interview tape being released, and will sign any necessary privacy waivers. Is anything on the tape sensitive? Perhaps. I do know my way around airport security; I ws certified to bypass it till Feb 2002. Maybe it's too sensitive because it would so drastically alter the picture of which agency had the clearest picture presented pre 9/11. Is it true what the agents said; that you hung up on them? The Truth not only sets free the Just, it always wins in the end.

Best Regards (for your office and Flag)

Donald Robert Traill

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1540495/posts?q=1&&page=1

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

34. Got meds? n/t

[Shalomar]

35. The Freepers made it here

This is so easy to disprove it is ridiculous. I am NOT asking anyone to believe me till the tape is released. I have witnesses as to my occupation at KABE and the fact I was interviewed. The 9/11 commission wanted to look at interview tapes and was denied. Now there is just one tape in question; from a man who has agreed to waive his privacy.

The Secret Service made the tape. If it is just psychotic ramblings, why would they hesitate to make it public?

The post about me being a Southwest Airlines pilot WAS pure fiction on my part- I even called it my "virtual resume". At Avsim.com is a group that makes flights in simulators doing "jobs" written by others. I invented a character to do those jobs. THAT is pure fiction on my part.

It does not change what I told the Secret Service before the attack.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

36. I'm not kidding.

I've read your other posts - on this site, on avsim.com, and in freeperville. You need professional help. I'm not saying this to be a dick.

[Shalomar]

37. Read the Constitution lately?

Do you see any distinction being made in the Constitution about being deprived of your liberty in a Hospital or prison? Is it so crazy for someone committed to have a vigorous defense they should not be? Do you think it helps "family values" when a life partner can increase their chances at custody by a commitment proceeding where they can safely tell a doctor any lie and not testify themselves?

Even if I need help now; how does that affect 2001? I was cleared by the FBI for my job at an airport; were you ever scrutinised by them?

Best Regards, Donny

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

38. See, this is what I'm talking about. n/t

[Shalomar]

39. What, nothing?

That is what you posted. How about sticking to the issue I raised; or starting your own threads in the future?

Best Regards, Donny

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

40. I'm sorry, dude.

If you've got information then please, by all means share it. But this vague dancing around the issue of what you actually said to the secret service is tiresome. Nobody is going to assist you unless you give them some vague idea of what you're attempting to do. So please, on the off chance that this isn't actually a paranoid delusion, let us know more about what you're talking about. Right now all we know is that you claim that you told "things" to the Secret Service, and that you think they're refusing to release this information for some reason, and that you keep on bringing up the topic of your mental illness. I have read all of your other posts, and I must say that your credibility problems are of your own making, and it isn't exactly a shallow grave.

Also, calling me a Freeper was a bad first step. I'm not going to alert on it because you're new here, and I wasn't exactly being an angel with my original response to your post.

[dutchdemocrat]

41. I have to agree

DU'ers are not going to duct tape their eyes and leap off the branch hoping the next vine will swing in place by firing off a bunch of emails to the FBI to release a tape without a hint of what you allegedly 'know' - never mind solid proof that it even exists.

[Shalomar]

42. The way it is

The 9/11 commission attempted to get access to interview tapes in the months before 9/11. They were denied; the Secret Service raised concerns about privacy and said therewas nothing of interest on the tapes. I gave them at least one target, method of attack and fingered "the twentieth hijacker" as at least having knoweledge also. If you bothered to read the whole thread; this would be nothing new to you.

Let me get two things straight: If you are prepared to take my word for what the Secret Service could so easily prove false (if it is) then I do not want your support. If you have already made up your mind there is nothing the 9/11 commission would be interested in on a tape you have not seen yet I do not value your opinion.

Is that clear enough? I hope so.

Sorry about calling you a Freeper, that was wrong of me and was based on an assumption because some of the EXACT links AND comments are being posted here as well as there. When I AM wrong, I admit it.

Best Regards, Donny

[Garbo 2004]

48. 9-11 Commission couldn't get the tapes released, even w. your waver of

confidentiality, yet you expect strangers on an internet chat board to be able to get the Secret Service to turn them over? How? And based on what? Hints of important information revealed in the tapes?

You say you have important knowledge that you revealed to the Secret Service, but won't tell it until the tapes are released. Well that creates an impasse. Because there's no basis for anyone of any credibility to lobby anyone regarding release of a Secret Service interview without knowledge of what information the interview contains and also at least some corroborating evidence that the claims made during the course of the interview are credible.

I'd imagine virtually anyone could get an interview with the Secret Service by saying or doing something that would interest them, regardless if the person and the information provided were credible or not. (In fact, the SS has questioned teens for wearing an antibush tee shirt and making antiwar/Bush drawings, so it's not that hard to get their attention especially if one says the Pres' security is threatened.) So having corroboration that one has been interviewed by the Secret Service is not in itself proof of anything except that one was interviewed by the Secret Service.

So basically, if you want your story out at all you're going to have to tell it yourself. Your interview tapes by the Secret Service won't in themselves alone lend credibility to whatever you told them. They may reveal the info you told them, but in itself an interview tape won't confirm the credibility or factual basis of the info you told them. If you want others to know the info publically, you're going to have to go public with the story yourself.

[Shalomar]

50. Responded to the wrong person

see "don't quite get the reasoning" please.

[Garbo 2004]

43. Actually it appears that Pennsylvannia statutes provide for the right

to counsel, the cross-examination of all witnesses, and the right for the subject of an involuntary commitment proceeding to present evidence on his own behalf. http://www.psychlaws.org/LegalResources/StateLaws/AnalysisPennsylvania.htm http://www.psychlaws.org/LegalResources/StateLaws/Pennsylvaniastatute.htm

[Shalomar]

44. What about Miranda and protection from Hearsay???

BTW, I was not even at my last hearing.

[FreedomAngel82]

46. Of course they did it

I know it's hard for people to believe that but Hitler did it so why not happen here? There are so many holes in the "official" story. All you have to do is really research it. One of the best 9/11 sites is http://www.reopen911.org

[Shalomar]

49. Don't quite get the reasoning

I do not understand how there could be any doubt if the tape is released and the Agents and I are seen directly discussing an attack on the World Trade Center by hijacked airliners before the fact; how I could be regarded as anything but a credible source.

I never contacted the 9/11 commission and only now have offered to waive my right to privacy. There may have been honorable men in the room that night who may yet come forward. And dishonorable men have gone on record with their lies.

Best Regards; Donny

[Garbo 2004]

51. See, you leave out so much revelant information & then expect others here

to somehow get the Secret Service to release info without an informed basis on which to even make the attempt. Have you yourself or through a legal representative tried to get a copy of your interview? Have you or anyone else on your behalf filed a FOIA request to the Secret Service? That would seem to be the first step. Have you tried it?

The 9-11 Commission tried to get your interview released but failed? How did they know about your interview? You didn't provide info to the Commission yourself? Did anyone else do so on your behalf? How do you know they tried to get access to your interview when you had no direct contact with them?

Who and what organizations have you contacted to get release of the tapes? Did you contact the Secret Service itself? You didn't contact the 9-11 Commission. What about the 9-11 truth movement?

(And despite what Condi claimed, the idea of attacking US buildings, including the WTC, with hijacked planes was out there in news reports (Bojinka plot) and popular enterainment well before 9-11 happened. It wasn't quite the "unimaginable" tactic that Condi claimed. For example, the Lone Gunman TV show in 2001 had an episode about a plot to fly a hijacked airliner into the WTC.)

You say you gave specific info to the Secret Service sometime prior to 9-11 that presumably could have been acted upon. You say the Secret Service won't release the interview and is covering it up. But how do you expect anyone, without sufficient info, to get it released? So far you haven't even told us what efforts you've undertaken yourself, such as an FOIA request, to get it released.

[Shalomar]

52. Okay; here it is

After what happened to me in 2002 I gave up for quite a while. The Commission simply wanted to look at a bunch of tapes; I never said they knew about me. I have contacted Senator Charlie Dent's office and was reassured by an aide he would be informed. Prepaid Legal Services was a dud; my lawyer there said he could not help me even though when I signed up I was reassured at least a letter would be written. FOI- is that even for individuals I thought it was for the media. Paul Carpenter of the Morning call agrees with me on the rights of mental patients and is working on a column about me.

I wrapped up a lot of stuff that was in the media about the warnings and presented it to the SS. During the course of the interview I was told there had been contact with the Pres. I RECOGNISED the lead agent from TV; I believe he was White House Detail Chief under Clinton.

Check with the DNS, Al-queida figures in country

My best estimate of the action group- I said I believed there would be four planes not two hijacked. The agents themselves assumed Washington would also be hit if the first two were successfull.

Arabis ethnic group with ties to Al queida acting suspiciously at flight schools.

ZARQUAWI- THE TWENTIETH HIJACKER FINGERED. Before the attack. And I predicted the time table would be soon since he was in custody.

I hesitated to go too far beyond the facts into my guesses which would have helped even more. I recieved insufficient reassurance I was dealing with honorable men. Remember Richard Jewell? At one point the agents pleaded with me to say more but I feared a trick. They said "Tell us everything you think so when it happens we can say what the President could have known."

I did not say much new; but I put it together. It WAS the clearest picture of what was to come.

I was an inflight caterewr. I have lost count of how many stewardesses I have put my arm around while we went over the provision charts. I never forgot I might just be the last person to walk off the plane alive. I have never had the heart to check how many of the crews I befriended transfered over to the California run before the attack.

BUSH's plane- I catered when he was a candidate. I was not on duty when it arrived and Bob; another driver had no idea the SS guards candidates. Almost got himself killed but a local security vouched for him before the order to fire was given as he advanced to the customary distance from an ordinary jetliner before letting out his guide.

The next morning I was on duty and went to the plane with Mike. We threw away over 200 steak dinners; my dog ate good for a solid week. The plane- it has been a while but Air India was the leasing agent or owner. (I read the airworthiness certificate) Except for office equipment being in first class it looked like a standard jetliner.

We were met by an aide when we took the catering carts from the belly (unusual) but when we went back we had the run of an unguarded plane. I saw a proof much like those I saw when cleaning carpets at ad agencies about Fox News done in crayon. CBS ABC NBC logos were crossed out "Forget government censored news- Fox fair and balanced. My first thought was isn't anyone from the other three on this plane; then why the heck is this on a Presidential candidate's plane? Were they clearing their ads with him?


When it came time to pay the bill Mike; who was senior driver at the time dealt with the Captain. He said he bore a strong resemblance to Leslie Neilson.

The part about Bush's plane I do not claim is relative, but some did doubt I catered it.

One question: Why would you be more inclined to believe me now??? I am still wondering.

[Shalomar]

53. Forgot something

What got me started years before was a conversation overheard at Queen City Airport in Allentow in which pilots were directly discussing rumors about terrorists at flight schools. At the time I caterd Bush's plane I can not recall if anything in the media had led me to believe the attack was imminent; I mainly said I catered his plane cuz how could the SS say I was suddenly a threat without hard evidence. I may have been just a dumb caterer on an unguarded 767; but I know what sand does in hydraulic lines and did nothing.

Best Regards; Donny

[Garbo 2004]

54. FOIA is for everyone. You can request your own info from the Secret Svs

yourself. Another poster here at DU in another thread just provided a link to a page with FOIA information resouces includeing how to request information pursuant to FOIA. Site here: http://www.epic.org/open_gov/

As to why people would want to know relevant info, well to try to assess credibility, provenance of the info and whether or not there's reasonably anything to pursue. Before anyone else goes, oh the Secret Svs is covering up, it's important to know what steps, if any, you've taken to get the record of the information released. Apparently you haven't yet directly requested your own interview info from the Secret Service because you didn't know you could. Filing a request pursuant to the FOIA may not be an immediate process but if you're looking for a record of info you provided them they can hardly cite privacy concerns as a reason to not release their records of your interview to you. They may or may not be readily forthcoming, but there are appeals procedures for that too if they don't want to provide it for some reason. Basically you're looking for them to confirm that they interviewed you and provide a copy of the taped interview. And presumably also info relating to any investigation they may have done as a result.

So you put together pre-911 media reports and other public domain info and used that to suggest or tell the Secret Svs that there was an al Qaeda plot to attack the WTC using hijacked passenger planes? Is that essentially the deal? And you'd previously heard airport/pilot rumors of suspicious Arabs at flight training schools? It doesn't appear so far from what you've said here that you're claiming to have super duper insider info from secret sources (which may well be a point in your favor) but that you put pieces of available info and observation together to form such a scenario?

And the so-called 20th hijacker is Zacarias Moussaoui, not "Zarquawi." He was detained by in Minnesota on August 16th 2001 and charged with an immigration violation to keep him in custody while the local FBI tried to pursue its investigation of him. You knew about his being in custody before 9-11 from news reports or you knew of him and his potential significance in some other fashion from other sources? I just don't recall his case being in the news until after 9-11.

As for believing you, I'm skeptical of course which I think is a reasonable response on an internet chat board. But the least I can do is let you know you can file an FOIA. And if you indeed were interviewed by the Secret Svs prior to Sept 11 and the contents of the interview are as you say, at a minimum it would be pretty damn interesting if not amazing even if you just pulled it all out of your butt, so to speak.

At any rate, your first and perhaps best step is to file an FOIA with the Secret Service. Until you do it's not entirely reasonable IMO to claim they're refusing to release it and are covering up. The link I posted above should have some helpful info on how to do so. You don't need to be a journalist or a lawyer to file a FOIA. That's your right as a citizen. Other folks in this thread have provided other links to resources/organizations that may be helpful. You may want to work with someone else so you have a sort of backup/witness to the FOIA and whatever you may receive as a result or if you don't receive any info they can also document that and whatever appeals procedures you follow. Sometimes gov't agencies are surprisingly responsive, sometimes they're not responsive at all or just not timely.

But if you do try to enlist disinterested third parties who don't know you (like the 911 truth folks or a journalist) to document or help with the FOIA, you should have a more organized presentation of info so they might be more readily inclined to take you seriously and be willing to assist. As you've noticed, it's way easy for others especially when they see a somewhat confusing rant to just assume "this guy is just jerking our chain and/or is a whacko" and drop it. And that's the polite response. You've already been given the not so polite responses elsewhere. ;)

Best of luck.

[Shalomar]

55. Clarification

I have been attempting to contact the Secret Service. Supervisors have not called me back.

Sorry bout the name; usually I call him the "twentieth hijacker". He was accused of being involved in a plot to bomb terminals in California, and several articles specifically mentioned LAX and SFO. He may have even been a decoy for another action group crossing the border; he was OBVIOUS. I believed before 9/11 they meant to bomb the survivors- when a plane goes down where do people go??? All the hijacked planes were going to those airports. And 767 is the biggest american made plane that would carry the most fuel for twinjets at the time. I sincerely believe had I had the confidence about lack of retribution if they dropped the ball and I had too many details right to move into the area of my educated guesses Air Marshals could have redeployed and stopped all but possibly Flight 93. I never pinned down the plane type. But apparently no action was taken at all other than to treat me as a threat.

Of course; the terminals were evacuated. I still remember my manager was convinced planes would be flying on the 12th and insisted on preparing all the food.

EDIT:: I have it wrong. I saw articles about a man detained at the Canadian border with explosives; you said Minnesota. Obviously this is a totally different person. Or is Minnesota on the border- my geography ain't what it usta be.

However; my interview happened just a few weeks before 9/11. It would have been fresh in the minds of the agents; and I reviewed what I had said years before about the vulnerability of Air Force One to aerial attack. The russians pioneered missiles that home on electromagnetic energy and she puts out signals no ordinary 747 does. That technology has most likely been sold already. Missiles can be concealed in phony wing mounted fuel tanks many bizjets have. Before 9/11 it was the policy of the SS to refuse fighter escort because of the collision risk.

It seem they only heeded my warning when it came to the President's safety; let the citizens be damned. And they said to the 9/11 Commision there was nothing signifigant on the tapes; wouldn't that right there count as a coverup? I recognised the lead agent conducting the interview from a TV special on the SS- believe he was Chief of the White House Detail under Clinton.

Best Regards, Donny

[Shalomar]

56. Limited Success

Got thru to a female SS supe, females are always better especially lawyers in those kind of positions. She said she would look up the phone number for me to contact in Washington and addy to send the FOIA to.

As some might have guessed; I deliberately left out the juiciest parts of my interview where I went over a big time they dropped the ball on a terrorist warning of mine. I have had contact with a certain other agency sine high school.

I did also warn about the vulnerability of our airports to truck bombs coming thru the fence. An organised attack on a foggy morning when jetliners are lined up for takeoff would be devestating. All you really have to do is fracture a wing and ignite the fuel; they would get more "bang for the buck" not going to an outright suicide attack. A few bullets to deflate the slides; if they can keep people held in the planes and firefighters can't work the casualties could be immense.

You see; I have a gift to think like a terrorist but present my plans to the "good guys" but it has never helped so far; the same attacks I plan for them usually happen anyway.

Best Regards, Donny