Katrina Relief organizations openly using government funds to win converts

[Ian David]

"Some religious organizations are openly using the hurricane relief efforts to win new converts," Americans United's Barry Lynn said.

Bill Berkowitz
WorkingForChange
12.15.05

FEMA finds faith
Storm relief funds earmarked for faith groups

<snip>


"After FEMA's ineptitude in the wake of Hurricane Katrina, it's distressing to see the Bush administration making even more blunders," the Rev. Barry W. Lynn, executive director of Americans United, pointed out. "Before you turn over millions of taxpayer dollars to churches, there must be strict accountability and safeguards to protect the civil and religious liberty rights of those who need help."

<snip>

"In the name of 'leveling the playing field' for faith-based programs in Texas à Bush passed laws relaxing regulations over these programs, including fully exempting faith-based drug treatment centers and children's homes from state licensing and oversight," Samantha Smoot, the then-executive director of the Texas Freedom Network, pointed out in August 2001.

Gov. Bush "explicitly directed that office to 'eliminate unnecessary legislative, regulatory and other bureaucratic barriers that impede effective faith-based and other community efforts to solve social problems,'" Smoot said.

<snip>

"Some religious organizations are openly using the hurricane relief efforts to win new converts," Americans United's Barry Lynn said. "If these groups can't separate their evangelism from their relief work, they should not be eligible for public funding. People displaced by Hurricanes Katrina and Rita should not be subjected to unwanted, high-pressure religious coercion as the price of getting help from their own government."


More:
http://www.workingforchange.com/article.cfm?itemid=20068

[Angry Girl]

1. Societies worse off 'when they have God on their side

Societies worse off "when they have God on their side"

RELIGIOUS belief can cause damage to a society, contributing towards high murder rates, abortion, sexual promiscuity and suicide, according to research published today.

According to the study, belief in and worship of God are not only unnecessary for a healthy society but may actually contribute to social problems.

The study counters the view of believers that religion is necessary to provide the moral and ethical foundations of a healthy society.

It compares the social peformance of relatively secular countries, such as Britain, with the US, where the majority believes in a creator rather than the theory of evolution. Many conservative evangelicals in the US consider Darwinism to be a social evil, believing that it inspires atheism and amorality.

Continued...
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/newspaper/0,,171-1798944,00.html

[merh]

2. Screw that crap

The majority of the people that are actually helping, sending volunteers and working, putting their concerns in action are the religious groups.

I've dealt with religious volunteers of all denominations and not a one, NOT A F'ING ONE, has tried to convert me.

They only want to help, give aid and comfort.

What the fuck are the "non-religious" doing?

If anyone takes offense to the religious organizations being reimbursed, then I have only one question for them -- Have you volunteered yet?

[sandnsea]

5. Why is that?

First of all, I know that local church groups are almost always front and center in times of tragedy. I know they do it with no thought to money or religious affiliation. So I'm not even questioning that. I put up names of churches being used as shelters because I was worried they were going to be financially overwhelmed until they got FEMA reimbursement, and I knew at the time that they would get FEMA reimbursement. I'm perfectly fine with all of that.

BUT, I've also seen several of your anti-government, anti-FEMA posts. And I have to say you are being duped. You have every right to be furious, enraged, crazed, over the lack of response. But it is REPUBLICANISM that you should be enraged at. NOT government or FEMA. These agencies DON'T function right now because REPUBLICANISM doesn't want them to. In a nutshell, this is how the south gets people to vote against taxes and against Democrats. They give you the shittiest government possible, then blame that shitty government to keep you voting against it. Or voting against Democrats who they say are for it. It's classic.

The reason those churches can continue to give help is because they're getting the AUTHORITY and the money. Just like the corporations. How did Wal-mart get into hurricane areas, but those FEMA ice trucks were sent all over hell and gone? How did singers and movie stars get in? The Repubicans in charge of FEMA wanted it that way. It's part of their plan to kill all government social programs, once and for all. Sad to say, way too many Democrats in the south are buying right in.

If you want a government that works, you have to know that government CAN work, it works all over the rest of the country because we demand that it work. If you guys want a government that works in the south, you're going to have to wise up and demand it. I know you can't do that in the middle of all this turmoil and I'm not suggesting that you should have to. But that's the crux of the problem, as I see it. And continuing to rant at FEMA instead of the Republicans is just going to get you more of the same.

[merh]

6. I don't see you doing a damned thing but lecturing.

Come on down here and make a difference.

And that you think the government works for you because you demand it proves you are as naive as you accuse me of being.

I hope that you don't face a disaster, then you will see that it is not just republicanism, but a total failing of our fucking nation.

What have you done, what has the democratic party done? How have any of your tried to make a difference, use this travisty to help the progressive/liberal/democratic agenda?

Put your actions where your mouth is - do something. I don't need you to tell me about the politics of my area and/or of this situation. I don't need a fucking lecture, I need folks to get off their blessed soapboxes to come help and to fill the voids those religious groups are filling.

DO SOMETHING

Again, none of the religious groups I have encountered have tried to convert me - the title of that article and this thread are wrong.

[merh]

7. And we have some of the elder repukes in our state and they ain't

getting the support -- republicans are part of the problem the other part is pure apathy on the part of the nation.

Katrina fatigue.

It is better to bitch about the troubles of the world than to get off our asses to do something.

It's hard to go over to Africa or Asia or Pakistan to volunteer to help the people there and apparently it is just as hard to volunteer to help those in desparate need in our own nation.

Hell, just blasting your congress critters to support the reconstruction is doing more than sitting at a keyboard and lecturing.

[sandnsea]

8. The whole nation is just a failure

So why bother calling Congress. Why bother supporting the Katrina Storm Washington. Why bother recognizing Reid & Pelosi's constant efforts and hearings. Because they're all the same, government is worthless.

Whatever. I've lost every blessed thing in a house fire and had no insurance, so don't tell me what I know and don't know. And don't tell me what I have and haven't done to offer some measure of help. But when all I hear is that everybody's efforts are shit, and to hell with the entire government, then there isn't much left for me to do. Or motivation to do it.

[merh]

9. Then you are a part of the problem

and the failures.

[sandnsea]

10. How would that be?

Call Congress to tell them government is shit and the south doesn't want anything to do with it? How does that make any sense?

I am sorry merh, I know you are in an enormous amount of pain. But this is the problem. If you guys want churches and corporations and not government, then that's what you've got. If you want a functioning government and FEMA, then you're going to have to recgonize the reason you don't have it and the reason you don't have it is because Republicans don't want you to have it. Not at the federal, state or local level. Because Republicans believe government should not respond to social problems. Charity, churches and private parties can handle it. That's why you have the shitty social services you've got, and the shitty social problems that go along with it.

If you want to change it, short term and long term, you're going to have to deal with the attitudes in your own areas that cause it.

[merh]

11. We want help - the only help that is being given is the churches

our streets are open, there is no one preventing the non-religious and non-corporate folks from coming to help.

No one and nothing has stopped others from setting up a charity that is meant solely for the Katrina/Rita survivors and that would qualify for assistance from the gov under the existing policies, a charity that is not as suspect as those now involved in the efforts.

You want to make a difference, you want to show folks there is something better than the religious and/or corporate efforts, then you have to DO SOMETHING, something more than just bitch and throw your hands up in the air.

I didn't just lose my house and all that I owned, entire communites were destroyed, entire towns - I'm sorry you lost what you lost in a fire, but it is nothing compared to the blanket devastation on the Coast, nothing compared to the horrors faced by the citizens living here.

If you want to change the attitudes, short term and long term, of the people in this area, you have to show them you offer more than what they are being given -- since both you and the democratic party have failed to make an effort, to make that showing, then you both fail and you leave the others you hate and mock to claim what you have handed them on a silver platter.

[sandnsea]

12. That is all being done

There are tons of groups who have either set up charities or come down to help, tons and tons of them. They're there. As are the religious and corporations. People are giving money, time and things. Holding fundraisers all over the country. It's all happening. Just like it happened for me after my fire.

The point is exactly what you said. The scope of this tragedy is just TOO BIG. We can't manage this individually. The government is going to have to step in. And they AREN'T. They're going back on promises made already, as you well know. And the reason they aren't is because Republicans don't believe in it. They think you guys are going to pull through on your own, so just sit back and let you do it. And I've read many comments, here and in newspapers, where many people are sounding just like you. To hell with FEMA, to hell with the government, we'll just do it ourselves. And that's EXACTLY what they want you to do. And they'll keep withholding help as long as you stick with that classic southern attitude. Independence and determination are worthy character traits, but not when they keep you in despair because you have been duped into believing you don't deserve anything more or that there is anything more that can be done.

You want help down there, you're going to have to reject that notion of governance, and start rallying behind Pelosi, Reid, Landrieu, and others who are working nearly every day to get you the funding you need. And not just the funding, but to actually get it released, like SBA money, etc.

[merh]

13. I asking you to get off of your soap box

and to rally behind Gene Taylor and Pelosi, Reid and Landrieu - there are not the tons of folks you claim are here, the majority that are here are the religious organizations, so damning them for doing what you won't do is pointless.

I am fighting on this side as a survivor and I have tried for months to get DUers involved, to get them to reach out to their congress critters to demand that the help promised be provided, that the national guard be removed from fighting an illegal war and brought home to help in the recovery efforts.

It is you that says we can't rely on the goverment, you post from both sides of your mouth.

Stop lecturing and act - stop telling me how to survive and start helping. You haven't a clue as to what I have done relative to politics in my state, my county, my city and you definitely don't know what I have done relative to not taking the crap handed to me by the incompetent organization known as FEMA.

You have your nerve and I will continue to think that until you stop lecturing and start practicing what you preach and when you actually come help.

Tell me all knowing one, what areas were harmed by Katrina, give me a list of the areas so that I can know you know what it is you speak about.

[sandnsea]

14. Whatever

You've got the government you vote for I guess. It must be what southerners want because you keep voting in the same do-nothing idiots whose response to everything is more church and more privatization. So there you go. That's the reason I told you your government isn't getting anything done, and you choose to twist my words. I'm not on a soap box, I have just seen these comments from too many people too many times and it is breaking my heart. And not everybody in the country has the means to just drop their jobs and drive across the country either.

Biloxi, Gulfport, Waveland, Pass Christian, Pascagoula, Slidell, on over to Lake Charles. Inland as well, I know. I used to live in Biloxi. My son lived in Lake Charles. My family is in Little Rock and helping families through their churches there. So yeah, I know.

But whatever. It's the damned worthless government. Okeedoke.

[merh]

15. I didn't vote for these fuckers

and even if I did, I don't deserve to be abandoned by the government and/or my fellow citizens.

You are talking out of both sides of your mouth, damned worthless government and rally behind Pelosi, et al. Damned worthless government, but you get what you voted for.

DAMN IT - stop lecturing and do something.

[sandnsea]

16. DAMMIT, Merh

DEMOCRATS would not be operating a "damned worthless government". THAT is the mistake the south has been making for years and years. Andrew happened under Bush Fart. Clinton put enormous effort into getting FEMA functional. Then Bush Turd came along and fucked it up again.

You can rail against the GOVERNMENT, or you can rail against the REPUBLICANS. You rail against the first and NOTHING will change. You rail against the REPUBLICANS, by supporting Pelosi et al, and you'll get change. So far, the south IS NOT doing that. Because you refuse to differentiate. And the reason you refuse to differentiate, which I know because I lived there, is your stubborn independent anti-government attitude. You can keep it, and drown. Or change, and progress.

DEMOCRATS in the south are going to have to take the lead to make the change. You either shame these Republican policies that have abandoned you, right now. Or be prepared to live under it until the day you die.

[merh]

18. Get it through your head.

I have been working for years to make a difference in my area. I don't run for comfort in a blue zone, I battle it here in hopes of making a difference.

THAT DOES NOT ALTER WHAT IS HAPPENING NOW

NO ONE, not a fundie, a freeper, a bigot, or a neo-con deserves to be abandoned by the government and our people. YOU NEED TO try to make a difference and stop damning the folks that are suffering.

The Democratic Party has proven that it is not going to make any changes, if they were in charge, we would still have this mess. THEY HAVE NOT seized upon the opportunity to come here and make a difference and to reach out to those that voted against them. HEll, in 2004, the didn't even come here to ask for our votes. The local democrats campaigned with no leaders and now we are SUPPORTING OUR DEMOCRATIC LEADERS, Gene Taylor and Benny Thompson, don't lecture me on Politics, you don't know of what you speak relative to this area.

Stop lecturing and make a difference yourself, I'll do what I can from my end.

[sandnsea]

19. Believe what you want

We didn't have these messes when Clinton was in charge. Do you not remember the flood? People weren't abandoned like this after the flood. But if you want to believe all government is bad, then that's your right. Just like it's your right to ignore the fact that Democrats don't come down and help with campaigning because local Democrats don't want anybody coming down there and "lecturing" of things that "you don't know what you speak of". So I guess all we can do is what we've been doing. Donate money and hope for the best.

[merh]

21. Clinton put us in the arms of the repukes

He knew they were watching his every move and he knew the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy was out to take him down. He knew that well before his first election, yet, he got a blow job in the oval office from a young intern "because he could".

He delivered us into the hands of the moral majority evil thugs that have been destroying my nation.

And go see what he is doing with the money he and Daddy Bush raised for the Katrina survivors - where the fuck is it?

Is it going to the victims or to special interests and state sponsored charities like The Red Cross.

I don't know of a dime of it that is going to a citizen in need.

Don't pull the crap that we wouldn't be here if Clinton was in charge because you don't know that and when he was in charge, he delivered our nation and our political party to the repukes on a blessed silver platter.

It doesn't matter - we are here and we are fucked, we are fucked because of attitudes like yours. Stop lecturing and start sending the damned emails and letters to your congress critters.

Do something besides lecture, please.

[sandnsea]

22. Well this is quite interesting

Yeah, Clinton, Gore and Kerry would have just let you there to rot because that's Democratic Party policy after all. Suuure.

You are suffering the consequences from the 2000 "they're all the same" politics, and you still don't get it.

I'm done.

[merh]

23. You can't win a debate so you leave

and still you have not been a part of the solution, you have not helped, so you are a part of the problem.

:hi:

[sandnsea]

24. Clinton, Gore and Kerry would have abandoned the Gulf?

That isn't even a debate worth having. If I'd known that was your position, I'd have ended this a long time ago.

[merh]

25. They have abandoned us

They are as capable as getting political forces to make thinks different as you or I, if not more so.

WTF have they done.

End it now - stop being pigheaded and write some emails to your congress critters, or is it too much to ask that you try to help?

[sandnsea]

26. Don't want to use the paper

You obviously need the wood.

[merh]

27. Thanks for caring so much

:hi:

[HeeBGBz]

20. Not in my experience either

A few days after the storm, I worked with a church relief group that needed volunteers. They offered the first hot breakfast after the storm. Served 3 hot meals a day and distributed truckloads of supplies. They were cheerful, kind and never pushed or proselytized. I was fully expecting it too. It was a great feeling working with those folks for just one morning.

[BrklynLiberal]

3. Didn't they do that in other disaster areas? Tsunami and earthquake

religious relief groups, that incidently got funding from the US government, were also found to be doing the same thing. There were cases that relief was denied to people who would not accept conversion outreach attempts. The relief trucks simply drove away without giving any of the relief goods to the people.

[izzie]

4. Face it Bush has passed out over a Billion to these Church groups

Just who is going to check on tax payers money? Congress? We may as will have stayed with England we would have a better deal today.Bush is now our King and war and church President. And half the voters like it. Please do not make me ill and prop him up in front of more flags. I grew up watching a ruler do that to his people. Half those people loved it also.

[Doctor_J]

17. It's time that churches started paying taxes

They're extremely political and heavily GOP now, it's time their tax-exempt status was pulled - swiftly and permanently. They are reaping the benefits, as we see here, without any downside.