No, we don't want Iraqi democracy to fail

[LuckyTheDog]

Hey, I want democracy and peace for Iraq as mich as anyone. In fact, I wish they'd put down their arms, join hands and sing "Kumbaya." But wanting that to happen does not mean I believe it will.

We have to be realistic and confront the situation as it is, not as we want it to be. His utter inability to do that has been Bush's biggest failing.

They'll "hail us as liberators"? Riiight. Sure. That would have been great. But the realization by some of us it would never, ever happen is not what caused the insurgency to emerge. It simply is not true that hat things would have worked out if we all just "had faith" and had "truly believed."

We can't get what we want there just by really, really wanting it and adopting a child-like faith in our own vision. Iraq is not "The Polar Express."

[babylonsister]

1. Iraq was better off without us and the bloodshed.

The US has made a terrible mess of things and I know who I blame.

[KharmaTrain]

2. To Fail, It Has To Be There In The First Place...

...anyone who really thinks these sham "elections" are either binding or a true indication of what the Iraqi people want...I've got a used 1933 German election to sell you.

[LuckyTheDog]

3. Yeppers

But then, I guess that's why Bush "hears the silver bell" and we don't, right (to extend my "Polar Express" analogy).

Seriously, though... you know that when Iraq's Potemkin democracy flops, they'll blame it on "those at home who did not keep faith with the mission" or some such crap.

[KharmaTrain]

5. We'd Never Win No Matter...

If this invasion has been that "success" the plotters dreamed of...flowers at our feet, oil paying for everything, troops back home in 30 days and so on...ya think those who supported this invasion would look at us as "wayward" sheep. Hell no, we'd be ostracized as the sticks in the mud...the defeatists and the PR fall-out would have been so bad I doubt we'd see a real functioning Democratic party today. But still that wouldn't have changed my opposition on bit. I've strongly believed this invasion was wrong from the outset and feel more and more vindicated every day. Little that helps as the death and corruption continues.

No matter how this sad episode turns out, there will be those on the right who will blame us for every mistake and attrocity they committed. If not directly, then by guilt-by-association. While I still feel my anti-war activism during Viet Nam, along with millions of others, helped keep that war from killing 100,000 rather than 50,000 and forced an end to American involvement...something a vast majority agreed with at the time...you'd be hard-pressed to get that point of view. Under their goofy world view, we were close to "winning" in Vietnam..."our troops never lost a battle". What they miss is that a victory is assured when a stable peace is achieved...one that can stand on its own...not a truce, not a "peace with honor". Instead, these asshats think the only way to honor those who've already died in vain is to send more to their deaths. I'm hoping this time, those who favored all this carnage and corruption are not only brought to justice, but those who supported them are soundly and roundly condemned for the bloodsuckers and profiteers that they are.

Cheers...

[johnnybaseball]

4. I am sick of Republicans

and their magical thinking, and the fact that their arguments are not bound to the rules of logic in any way!

I mean, in a vacuum, if you said "do you want Saddam gone, yes or no?," you'd have to say "yes."

Unfortunately, that is as far as their thinking goes. People who live in this thing called "the real world" have to consider actual "consequences."

If you posed the question to the American people, "do you favor invading Iraq, removing Saddam, spending several years occupying his country, losing thousands of soldiers, and spending $500 billion to do it," I have to imagine that most would answer no!

[babylonsister]

7. Most do answer 'no'! Welcome to DU, johnnybaseball!

:hi:

[johnnybaseball]

8. Thanks!

It is SO great to find a place where I can come to see like-minded people.

Does anyone else out there start to feel crazy after a while? Like, maybe I AM the "loony-left" and I just dont realize it? Every once in a while, I feel that way; you see enough of the conservative blather out there and you can start to fall for it.

Thank goodness you all are here!

[babylonsister]

10. There are lots of loonies here, but that's what

makes it fun! And lots of different points of view, and so much new, current info
that is researched and posted often. There is so much to learn!
I recommend you donate a few bucks so you can peruse all the different forums and groups.
If you have a specific interest, there is probably a group that agrees with you!
Enjoy!

[newyawker99]

12. Hi johnnybaseball!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[CottonBear]

6. I want peace for Iraqis aand us. We all do. How now?

Bu$h has left us in a huge mess.... Why would we not like Iraqi people? Bush has left them hating us. :(

[still_one]

9. we have created a Shiite theocracy

we just haven't admitted it yet

[bullimiami]

11. but the neocons do.

they dont believe in democracy.