I Rather Liked Christmas Until It Became An Annual Political Football.

[DistressedAmerican]

That is what is destroying it for me. Wish we could just go back to celebrating it.

At this point, I just want it over so I can stop listening to these ignorant fucks feining an assault on their religion.

Shit, it is us atheists that are under attack if anyone is!

Have they no shame at all?

[acmejack]

Shame?

ROFL They don't know the meaning of the word.

[CatholicEdHead]

1. Anyone who does not belive in a purely commercial Christmas

is under attack

[orpupilofnature57]

4. I'm a christian, and COMMERCE ruined the intention of the day!!!

G.E. did it!!!

[dogday]

2. In all my years it has worked and everyone was cool

with it. What the hell happened this year? Another divisive tactic to separate us.

Do not feed the animals, there is a reason why the sign is on the monkey cage....

[marmar]

3. Lynn Woolsey said it best...

a few minutes ago during this embarassing House debate on Christmas that's on CSPAN. "You can always tell when the right wing is in political trouble because they come up with some kind of phony cultural war as a distraction."

[orpupilofnature57]

6. Careful Kkkarl hasn't told Shrub , about Santa yet.

[marmar]

7. LOL

He's still expecting that bag of cocaine to be under the tree Christmas morning!

[long_green]

76. Absolutely. It hit me last week...

THIS is W's counterattack. It made my day.

[Canuckistanian]

5. Only with the nutbar wing of the conservatives

WE can just sit back and watch them make fools of each other.

[madeline_con]

8. I'm just doing the usual...

We have a tree, we're shopping, and we'll spend the day with people we love, eating and celebrating being together. Anyone who wants to argue about it will be shown the door. :)

[shenmue]

9. No. None whatsoever.

There is no law that says we have to bark "Merry Christmas" every time some O'Reilly viewer gets a burr up his ass.

I don't know what's changed in their lives, but they're running around like a bunch of hornets after you whack their nest with a stick.

They know nothing's going on, they're just doing to be annoying.

How boring.

[tlsmith1963]

10. Christmas Used to Be Great...

...until the fundies ruined it. And their "War on Christmas" is a sham. I can remember people saying "Happy Holidays" & "Season's Greetings" when I was a kid. People didn't suddenly decide to say these things. So the fundies' claim that they are being oppressed is a joke.

Tammy

[secretmouse]

13. I'm Not A Fundie...

...and I'm getting a little bit ticked about the whole thing myself! I actually stop visiting several message boards during this time of the year because for the past few years there's been this whining about Christmas....and the whining was being done by non-Christians, not Fundie wing-nuts

It never ceases to amaze me that people who immigrate to this Country, knowing full well that it was founded by (dissident) Christians and that the majority of it's population is Christian, no sooner get settled than they want to turn America into wherever it was they left!

My suggestion to those who are Winter's Solstice challenged would be to return to the "Old" country for a couple of weeks, and let the rest of us overspend, overeat and overparty in (Heavenly) peace!

[kenny blankenship]

14. Yeah Right ON Secretmouse! You tell 'em !!!

Tell 'em where in the U.S. Constitution Christmas is mentioned as an inviolable mandatory tradition and "Merry Christmas" is mentioned as the mandatory greeting for this time of year!
Tell 'em where exactly you found that.

[secretmouse]

16. MerryChrisHannukwanzaa To You Kenny!

Now, go play with the other Grinches!

[lonestarnot]

Ah grinches... cute little green things. What the fuck?

[lonestarnot]

46. I think this is where it starts to smell ...

[DistressedAmerican]

15. Yeah God Forbid There Be Diversity.

We should all just bow down and worship at the altar of your mythologized white men. Are you fucking kidding?

Why the hell did those first immigrants not just adopt the customs of the dominant Native cultures that lived here? It never ceases to amaze me that they showed up here with their Christianity and insisted the country's preexisting residents convert!

Is this the best you have?

[secretmouse]

17. Racism, Anyone?

You seem to be having problems with white folks, Distressed American..there's an awful lot of them, I suggest you get over it!

The thing is, the Pilgrim Father's who landed at Pilgrim Rock were actually fleeing from religious persecution in England...and since they were Quakers, they actually didn't celebrate Christmas at all, and to the best of my knowledge, they made no attempt to convert the Native Americans.

It was the folks who followed that set the stage, so to speak, (along with bringing terrible diseases to the natives, before they robbed them of their land and signed all kinds of bogus treaties.)

I am not ADVOCATING what they did..merely stating that they did it...Early Bird Catches The Worm, and all that.

With all the troubles and problems that face the world today, it irritates the hell out of me that people actually give credence to this kind of bullshit...

For my Christmas present, I want New orleans rebuilt..how about you?

[Name removed]

18. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

19. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[DistressedAmerican]

20. That Is Some Non-Answer. Still Trying To Change The Subject.

You set the topic in this little back and forth and you can't deal with your own hypocrisy. You refuse to address it at all. Bring your game or piss off.

Come on. Tell me why those immigrants did not just assimilate when they got here like you insist others do to your little Christian utopia. I am only asking you to apply your own standards. I guess it is just fine if a Christian minority pushed its beliefs on the people that were dominant here. Oh that's right. They were Christians. That must have given them the right.

Stop ducking the issue that you came here with.

Sorry my potty mouth offends your poor sensitive Christian eyes. Maybe you should just go back to the "old country" for a few weeks and let me indulge myself.

[secretmouse]

26. Never trouble trouble

'til trouble troubles you;
It only doubles trouble,
and troubles others too.

Wow, you really are distressed aren't you? Although I suspect that it's a waste of time, and that you are actually only interested in venting your anger on someone, anyone..I'll give you the benefit of the doubt,however, which is more than you've given me, no?

Yes, I am a Christian and yes, more horrors have been committed in Christ's name than any other religion..Islam perhaps has been more brutal, but I doubt it. That speaks to the failings of man, not Christ.

The Pilgrims who came to this country were not "missionaries"; they came in order to practice their religion freely, which they weren't allowed to do in Britain. Perhaps some Native Americans were converted to Chritianity, but I stand by my assertion that doing so was not the reason that they came here.

I do not proselityze;my faith is one of attraction, not promotion. I do not worry over anyone else's religion, nor am I interested in converting them.

It is my considered opinion that America is probably the most religiously diverse Nation on the planet. Let me ask you, if I were to go to Israel and protest the observance of Jewish religious ceremonies, or Mecca and Medina, or Delhi,do you think that my protests would be given credence?
Would the Grand Iman declare that all of Islam had to change to accomodate my beliefs?

Every form of religion is practiced openly and freely in this country...I don't care for the crass commercialism that has overtaken this Day in the Christian calendar...so I don't participate. Those who malign Christmas are basically saying it is wrong to be part of the majority...and I would bet dollars to donuts, that if it were THEIR beliefs, if THEY were in the majority, it would be an entirely different story...so please, don't carp to me about hypocrisy.

If I were to choose to live in Israel or Saudi Arabia or India, I would know going in that If I wanted to become part of that community, I would have to adapt, I would have to accomodate the religious and cultural norms of those countries, and it wouldn't bother me one bit. I would still be a Christian, I would still observe the tenets of my Faith, I wouldn't cop an attitude because I was in the minority.

Bottom line, I am a member of a racially diverse family and live in a similar neighborhood. I feel blessed to be part of the community that I live in..it gives me hope. I see all of the Christmas lights, I see the Menorrahs and I nod to my Chaldean Iraqi neighbors. We live together in peace, whether you like that or not...we practice goodwill toward each other, and I am dead certain that they pray for peace on Earth as fervently as I do!

Happiness is an inside job DA, good luck!

[EFerrari]

28. It's a funny, special kind of good will that invokes racism

and intolerance. Must be some very special blessing? :shrug:

I guess I missed that one in catechism.

:rofl:

[DistressedAmerican]

32. One Simple Question. Who exactly Is "maligning Christmas "?

Who is protesting your Christian Holidays? Please point them out.

Do you have it in your mind that I have a problem with Christmas?

If so you are dead wrong. I do object to folks like you that act as if you are under attack when no such attack exists. Especially when it is nothing but a bullshit wedge issue cooked up by Fox news. Just like most of the other supposed attacks on Christianity I hear the wingers whining about.

Please point out the attacks you alledge are going on. Please point out just exactly who is coming here and trying to replace Christianity.

[EFerrari]

48. You will get no answer to this. But THIS MAN is attacking

America and American values of tolerance and inclusiveness

[DistressedAmerican]

52. That Is Certainly A FACT That Is Undeniable!

Funny that this post sits here unreplied to. There is no attack on Christmas. It is a figment of that guy's marketing department. I bet it was good for ratings.

The implication that immigrants are coming here and protesting Christmas is a fallacy plain and simple. The anti-immigrant spin on this poster's comments has to make you wonder what his/her issue with immigrants is and if it is a yearly obsession or just for the "holidays".

[lonestarnot]

59. Answer

:daily:

[lonestarnot]

53. Gee, I haven't heard anything from him lately, did you get a postcard?

[EFerrari]

57. Notice he retreated in the face of the awesome DU

onslaught. He did, got a new ad and dropped the whole deal.

But, he must be punished again. It's not enough to make his producers spend money! I want his mic cut!

:evilgrin:

[lonestarnot]

58. LOL mic cut! Is that all? LOL Whack his p- - p - -.

[EFerrari]

62. Now, now, I'm thinking of Skinner's insurance.

:evilgrin:

[lonestarnot]

63. Ohhhhh... insurance or insurance premiums?

[DistressedAmerican]

61. Still Waiting Secretmouse. Who Exactly is "Malining Christmas"?

Should be simple to point out the immigrants you are complaining about.

I'll let you in on a not-so-well-kept secret.

CHRISTMAS IS NOT UNDER ATTACK BY ANYONE. NOT IMMIGRANTS, NOT SECULAR HUMANISTS, NOBODY.

Of course, I do wonder who your paranoia makes you think are attacking your much loved Christian traditions.

Fill me in! I'd really like to know. Then maybe we can start getting to the root cause of your seasonal paranoia.

[lonestarnot]

64. looks as though secretmouse scurried with his secret.

[EFerrari]

24. I would love to read this alternate history of the Puritans

ah, the Puritan Quakers?

:rofl:

[Viva_La_Revolution]

27. Pilgrims weren't Quakers!

LOL! They were disaffected Catholics

[EFerrari]

29. Don't even bother!

:rofl:

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

31. Sigh... dudes just aren't even trying very hard anymore, are they?

As Hannibal Lecter said, "this ham handed segue... it won't do!"

[EFerrari]

36. When I listen to them, I miss him.

lol!

[Viva_La_Revolution]

33. But, but....

I have links! :rofl:

[EFerrari]

37. LOL!

Hey, fork 'em over. Who knows, I might need them at my trial.

:rofl:

[secretmouse]

39. Now, that was profound!

[EFerrari]

41. Brevity. n/t

[secretmouse]

49. Now, that was game,point and match!

[secretmouse]

38. So Step On My Neck An' Call me Wrong...

I can handle it!LOL...I was raised Presbyterian...so you have to make allownaces. Seriously, I thought they were the fore-runners of the Quakers...and even the Amish?

[EFerrari]

40. Ah, no. They were the ones persecuting the Quakers and the Amish.

As in, burning them and other yucky stuff.

/s

[secretmouse]

42. Unholy Shit!

[lonestarnot]

21. Why is it that these evangelicals try to shove their shit up everyone's

ass and breaking it off? Don't they know they accomplishing exactly the opposite of what they intend? Are they just moranic morons or obsessive nutjobs that are really just going to hell for turning people against Christ, Christmas and everything that could be good in life?

[secretmouse]

47. Not An Evangelical, Sorry!

Just a plain old, run of the mill ordinary Christian.

It's like this Lonestarnot, normally when the Fundies come up with "Christian" word, we real Christians just grit our teeth and bear it...not always easy, but we turn the other cheek. However, (and this will indicate how far I am from perfection)once in a while, they actually have a point.

I have heard LOTS of complaints about Christains celebrating Christmas over the past couple of years...and it wasn't the Fundies who were doing it, Honest!

Be careful not to throw the baby out with the bath water.

[EFerrari]

54. LOL! Wow, does Faux send you early releases or what?

:rofL:

[lonestarnot]

22. Are you related to the God Warrior lady? Maybe you go to her so called

church? There must be some connection here. I can smell it.

[secretmouse]

34. God Warrior Lady?

LOL...who the heck is that?Sorry to disappoint you..I do not particpate in organized religion.I gave that up years ago as it was compromising my faith!

I am not an Evangelical, Pentecostal or any other denomination.I just believe in the teachings of Jesus Christ.

Weren't you aware that deep in the Democratic party there were people like me? There are lots of us...and we vote! We volunteer, we donate.

I am very, very socially Liberal...but I am a fiscal conservative, and I support a strong military for our Nation's defence.

So, looks like you're going to have your smeller checked out...always be careful of contempt prior to investigation.

[lonestarnot]

50. And let me ask you, are we defending our nation with our current military

situation? And just so you know my smeller is very acute.

[EFerrari]

23. Excuse me, secretmouse, but this continent was colonized

in part by Puritans who would have put you in the stocks for celebrating the papist holiday, Christmas.

Before they came here, there were millions of people who celebrated their own festivals without any outside help whatsoever.

They probably would agree with your post -- especially the part about going back to the Old Country.

lol

[Lindacooks]

43. Here's a little social studies lesson.

When people immigrate, they like to bring some of their traditions to their new country. That is NOT 'whining about Christmas'. They want their point of view respected.

If you can't do that, you are no liberal.

Christmas was originally a pagan holiday, co-opted by Rome in 370 AD because the early Christians were dismayed that many they were trying to convert still practiced pagan rituals. The tree, the 12 days of Christmas, the lights, the gift giving, the whole thing is copied directly from Saturnalia and other pagan celebrations. Whining that it's 'Jesus' birthday' is a lie and a bunch of crap. In fact, biblical scholars think Jesus was probably born in September, since that's when 'shepherds watched their flocks by night.'

And BTW, "it's" means "it is". That's not the possessive of "it".

[EFerrari]

44. September?

Man, Santa is LATE!

:)

[Lindacooks]

45. LOL!

Yeah, I forgot - Santa is a pagan ripoff too.

[EFerrari]

51. One 12/24, my kid went to buy bagels for us. On the way home

he met up with several homeless guys who were hanging out on Telegraph Avenue. He gave all the bagels away, lol, and the guys asked his name -- Nick. They didn't believe him. :)

[lonestarnot]

11. Well I'm not an atheist, but do not EVER shove my shit off on someone else

unless they ask for it.

[FreedomAngel82]

12. I agree

and I'm a Christian and this time of the year is one of my favorite's. But it's just becoming annoying.

[DanCa]

25. Me too thats why i hate attending mass in certain churches.

imo i dont know what chimpo has destroyed more, the enviroment, the economy, religion, schools, the us constitution, the flag for which america stands for, or our physical well being since this administration came to power.

[Lindsay]

30. Unfortunately, DanCa, the answer is

"all of the above." And he keeps looking for more to destroy.

Happy Holidays, Merry Christmas, and peace to you and yours.

[DanCa]

70. Peace and holiday wishes to you lindsay.

[DistressedAmerican]

72. Same To All You Fine Patriots!

[lonestarnot]

55. It's a close run on all fronts.

[EFerrari]

35. The nut cases are the ones who are disrespecting Christmas

-- which, if you think about it, was a very AMERICAN festival. If you were religious or not, you could take part in it in some way. You could enjoy your family, be grateful for what you had, connect with your neighbors. If you wanted to spend all day in church or all day watching football, those things were all folded in.

I used to bake for weeks, the family would get together more, we'd try to stretch pennies to buy or make a nice thing for some we loved and or someone who needed a nice thing. Sometimes there was a midnight mass. More often, there was a casual, silly gathering in someone's house that lasted 'way into the morning.

That inclusiveness -- the kind that gives shelter to homeless people, in other words, the spirit of Christmas itself is under attack by the right wing nut cases.

I'm glad I don't need a roof in their screwed up world!

[lonestarnot]

56. here here sfexpat2000!

[EFerrari]

60. The Christmas celebrations are a LIBERAL holiday.

Liberal -- as in open handed, as in generous.

No wonder they're attacking it! Generosity of spirit freaks their world completely.

Can you imagine if a homeless family knocked on binReilly's door? He'd call the police.

If a homeless family knocked on my door, I'd look for a way to help them.

Because I'm a liberal.

[lonestarnot]

65. Absolutely a LIBERAL holiday. Giving and sharing.

[EFerrari]

66. We should post a new thread to that effect every day until

Jan 6. See if any wise guys show up. :)

[lonestarnot]

67. In.

[EFerrari]

68. Good! Let's do it!

:toast:

[lonestarnot]

69. Yes settled!

:toast:

[DistressedAmerican]

71. I'm In Too!

Should we set a schedule?

[lonestarnot]

73. You go first DA, then sfexpat2000, then me.

[DistressedAmerican]

75. On It!

Here you go!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x5604258

[EFerrari]

77. Perfect.

:toast:

[lonestarnot]

79. Ok just got here. Where's the thread?

[DistressedAmerican]

80. Right Here General!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x5604258

[lonestarnot]

81. Excellent post DA. I saw it right after I posted my Jesus is a liberal

thread.

[lonestarnot]

74. sfexpat2000 see post #73

[SmokingJacket]

78. Don't let them wreck it for you! That's what they want!

I'm enjoying a wonderful secular Christmas season with my atheist family. Lots of gingerbread and songs about reindeer, angels, snowmen, and even Jesus on the stereo, making handmade gifts so I can stay out of the mall as much as possible. I love it. The kids love it.

Don't pay attention to the O'Reillys.