86 year old people should not be allowed to drive a motor vehicle!

[trumad]

I know...I know...there are some 80+ year old folks out there that are just as spry as me... BUT... I think there are a bit more that are not.... Here's a pic of the old guy who killed 9 people yesterday in CA..

I'm sorry but this guy is just to damn old to operate a motor vehicle. I feel incredibly sorry for this guy and I think that the State of CA is just as responsible for this tragedy as the old guy behind the wheel.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

1. Provided they are medically, mentally and physically competent

they should be afforded the same privileges as all of us. Testing...sure..but anything can happen to anyone.

If statistics speak to a risk, which they do, then the risk should be addressed accordingly but fairly.

[slackmaster]

8. Agreed and a comment about the stats

If statistics speak to a risk, which they do, then the risk should be addressed accordingly but fairly.

Young, inexperienced drivers cause a lot more problems than old people. That's why insurance rates are much higher for teens than for people over 35.

The driving test should be much more comprehensive, and people who don't have squeaky clean records and/or are over a certain age should have to demonstrate competence: Reaction time, judgement, attentiveness, etc.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

31. The actuaries are curvalinear

They demonstrate increased risk with younger drivers and older drivers...but I have not seen additional data weighing all factors.

[Maple]

2. I don't think

his age had anything to do with it. You're just assuming that because of what it is.

I think he knew very well what he was doing.

[dwillison]

10. You think it was murder?

nt

[SuffragetteSal]

12. Not so

in the Mercury this morning the article indicated when asked if he knew what he had just done, he replied "No".

http://www.bayarea.com/mld/mercurynews/news/6321946.htm

The families of elderly MUST take control of their elderly, for the good of public safety, for crist's sake! Take the car and keys away from them now!

[indigo32]

15. "People need to take care of their elderly" ?!?

I'm sorry, this was a tragedy, but I think you need to remember you are talking about adult people, not pets here.

[Iris]

70. no, "take CONTROL of their elderly"

which is an even worse thing to say, in my opinion.

[lapislzi]

22. Speaking from experience

"Taking care of one's elderly" is a tightrope walk of calculated risk managment. How much of a person's dignity is he to be allowed by overcautious family members? How much is an adult child allowed to sleep at night for worry about the elder? These questions will be answered differently in every family. And for sure you don't always get it right. Maybe someone in the family was asleep at the switch here, but don't count on it. More likely someone's crapshoot ended badly.

I feel desperately sorry for everyone involved.

[Maple]

34. Yes dwillison

and SuffragetteSal, I think it was murder.

"There were varying descriptions of Weller's behavior when he got out of the car.

John Ellis, 68, a building manager from Santa Monica, said he overheard Weller say very calmly to a woman who appeared to be an off-duty police officer: "How many people did I hit?"

"It wasn't even a question," said Ellis. "It seemed like more of a statement. He was very calm."

http://www.latimes.com/news/custom/showcase/la-me-smcrash17jul17.story

I'm sure he'll plead age, or a faulty car...but I think he just gave in to one of those mad impulses everyone gets from time to time, and said 'what the hell?'

There have been a number of such incidents lately...people doing bizarre things with no explanation other than that they 'lost it' and ran amuck.

Perhaps it's the tension of the times, or perhaps something personal.

If he was 35 you'd see it differently. People just make assumptions about age.

[maveric]

38. WRONG, Maple

I,m a nurse who works with the elderly and can see that his age lead to diminushed motor skills,confusion and lags in reaction time.
Do you really think that this man had murder on his mind?
What would lead you to beleive that?

[Maple]

42. Excuse me?

People hale and hearty past 100 are a growing group.

People in their 20's can be spaced out.

Don't judge people by age. You, as a nurse, see only the worst cases in a specific age group.

Read the article. I say he did it on purpose.

[maveric]

45. You break down with age, everyboby does/will.

I do see the worst cases but I also see diminished skills in the elderly in everyday life.
Dont you?

Advanced age=Diminushed mental/cognitive abilities.
Do you know many 90 yr olds that can drive, or for that matter do anything that requires reaction skills like say a 40 yr old?

And I did read the article and his response and demeanor appeaer to be telltale signs of dementia.

[Maple]

52. Lots of people

break down without age too. It depends on the person.

I know people in their 90's able to do things 20 year olds can't.

Heavens people are sky-diving at that age anymore.

18,000 in Japan alone are over 100...hale and hearty.

Judge him as an individual...he's not a group.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/ArticleNews/TPStory/LAC/20030715/COELDERS15/TPComment/TopStories

...."So assumptions about the elders' place in society can be inverted too. Just as the late 20th century had to change its expectations about gender and race, the 21st is already changing its assumptions about sexuality. Is it thinking the impossible thought to recognize that an age turnaround is also now staring at us?

Our language has not faced it yet. It is still filled with terminology of another era, like such phrases as "on the shelf," "out to pasture," "past their time," "too old," "senile," "little old lady," and "poor old man." Each phrase reveals how age-profiling remains part of our culture. But the numbers tell us something different: not for long. There will soon be too many people over 65 and too few under 15 for the people of the 21st century to function in the anachronistic way those phrases once fitted.

That's why financier Warren Buffett says he will retire from running the legendary Berkshire Hathaway Inc. four months after he's dead. And the oldest worker in the United States is over 100 years of age -- Harold H. Fisher, a Detroit architect who still goes to the office he opened in 1945. Their example is followed by a growing army of "just plain folks" who need more income or just want to do something useful outside the home. McDonald's, Tim Hortons and Days Inn are only some of the employers now tearing down the age barriers that once kept men and women over the age of 65 from doing an honest day's work."

[maveric]

57. I'll bet you that when an evaluation is taken on this man...

he will be found to suffer from dementia and diminushed cognitive ability.
I've seen it my friend. I see it every day.

[Maple]

61. I've seen dementia too

and that may well be the problem.

However, you should never assume it's the problem just because of someone's age.

It could also be because of the vehicle, or medication.

Or it could be murder.

The point is...this thread is about banning all elderly people from driving because of one man....whatever his problem.

And you wouldn't do that with anyone else.

That is like the old 'women drivers' jokes of years past.

Don't judge them all by one person.

[lapislzi]

49. You are jumping to a giant conclusion there!

We know nothing about this individual...so to suggest that he nonchalantly murdered 9 people is irresponsible at best.

Some forms of dementia and the medications for them flatten a person's affect...one can appear apathetic or completely unemotional. I'm not suggesting that this is the case, because (and this is my point) I DON'T KNOW.

Give the guy the benefit of the doubt.

[Maple]

56. No bigger jump

than to assume it's because of his age, and to suggest banning elderly drivers because of this one individual's actions.

[lapislzi]

67. I'll give YOU the benefit of the doubt

It is probably because of his age. But to suggest that all people of that age are at the same level of competence is a false equation. To suggest that this man murdered people also implies intent...which I doubt was present. Manslaughter, criminally negligent homicide, sure. But murder?

And what if it's discovered that the guy suffered a CVA while driving and doesn't even know what happened?

[Iris]

71. I've never had a "mad impulse" to run over anybody.

[maveric]

25. I dont beleive that this man intentionally plowed thru that marketplace.

Advanced age sometimes brings on diminished motor skills,confusion and lags in reaction time. I've seen it happen many times. My grandfather was 86 and he hit the accelerator instead of the brake and drove into a building. Luckily no one was hurt. My mom is 70 and is legally blind and she still drives around the Boston area. I rode with her last year and she drove on the shoulder, sidewalks and peoples yards. I had to commandeer the vehicle after that.
Three years ago I was driving on a busy San Diego street and a 92 yr old gentleman, who was stopped at a strip mall exit, hit the gas instead of the brake, hit my car and turned it around 180+ degrees. There were no injuries and the man told me and the cop that he will never drive again.
Sadly this happens with advanced age. I do not think that this gentleman had mayhem on his mind when he he those people.

[lumpy]

48. I agree, maveric.

I have always believed there should be periodic driving tests other than the initial testing. I am one of the older age group that has voluntarily given up driving, even though I have had a clean driving record. Driving was a pleasure and imparts a sense of freedom that some find hard to give up. Not me, when I got to the point that I felt nervous behind the wheel I decided it's time to quit taking chances. The reason being that I simply don't feel comfortable driving in traffic since I feel less sure of myself in the esculated amount of traffic that exists now compared to years past. I feel it is my resposibility to know whether I can handle myself behind the wheel.. I know plenty of oldsters who should not be behind the wheel and a few younger people as well. Driving tests are a cinch to pass if one has half a brain, the tests should be more extensive and not limited to one driving test in a lifetime.

[dwillison]

3. Will you feel the same way should you live that long? I agree

that the tests should be more frequent but to deny Americans
who are able to do anything the right to do it is, well,
unamerican.

[Robin Hood]

7. WTF!!!

And how mant people did the old man deny the right of other Americans to live. Driving impared comes in many forms, old age is oner of them. You wouldn't let a ten year old drive so why a 80 year old?

[Robin Hood]

4. Absolutely!

Here in Oregon just days ago, a 91 year old male driver plowed into a mother pushing a stroller. The mother watched her baby being run over from the windshield of the old fuckers car as she her self was dying.

It happened in King city Oregon, a retirement community filled with seniors. I can't drive through that place without wanting to ring some blue hairs throat. Why? Because their arrogant in their driving and dangerous. I see the old folks running red lights in King city every time i go there, and when they do it, they act as if it's their right to do that because their fucking old.

I don't even go into the grocerie stores in King city because the blue hairs push their carts around like they drive their cars. hey, just because your old, it does not mean that you earned the right to get away with murder.

Please lord!! If i get that arrogant and stupid in my old age, just take me.

I think the cut off limit for drivers should be 75. BTW, I am a professional bus driver.

[dwillison]

13. Then we should make the cutoff at 65 cause some lose it at that age.

course there are some at 55 also so to be super safe, let's cut it off
at 35.

[Robin Hood]

20. Absolutely, it should be flexible.

If you're a moron at 55, then you should have your licensed revoked. If you get caughty driving under the influence of drugs and alcohol you get penalized and even lose your driving priviledges.

I just got back from a wedding, and I had to be followed by a pair of Grandparents in their 80's. They drove abnormally slow, not because they are safe drivers but because their reaction time is delayed. The Grandpa that was driving his new Dodge Ram 2500 4 door diesel pick up truck, could barely see over the steering wheel.


Stories like this are a dime a dozen. And old people are just as bad if not worst at driving but they continue to get away woth it because of the AARP. There are no lobby groups for young people.

[Clete]

24. Please keep this post in your scrapbook...

and when you turn 75, read it again.

[Robin Hood]

26. If I make it to 75

I would gladly give up my license. I would have to sell my house and car and move into the city where I could be close to the bus line and hospitals, common sense stuff.

[Clete]

32. Well, I hope you saved all your money.

The reason I live in the country is because I can't afford the rental prices in the city, and the public transportation isn't adequate for an old persons needs anyway. You will find the same unless you are very comfortably retired.

[Robin Hood]

40. I don't care about the cost.

because you can't really put a dollar amount on the lives lost in horrific conditions down in Santa Monica.

[Clete]

50. You will care about the cost if you can't afford it.

No one knows anything about the homeless man he hit and killed but he could have been another senior who couldn't afford to pay the rent anymore.

[Robin Hood]

64. So it's allright

if you take out a few people just because you couldn't afford to give up your license?

[Clete]

66. That's a ridiculous statement.

No one, and I believe it includes the tragic figure who caused the accident, thinks it's all right to take out a few people. If you are so concerned about it, do something constructive and start working to help seniors get around and get affordable housing and user friendly transportation. Remember the senior you help will be YOU someday.

[FlaGranny]

27. I watched a 35 year old just

a couple of days ago take down 2 telephone phones and get carted off to jail by the police. Watched this from the window of a restaurant that was filled with people in their 60's and older, all of whom arrived there safely.

There are some people of ALL ages who shouldn't be driving. I'm for making sure that everyone who gets behind the wheel of a vehicle should periodically prove they are competent to drive.

By the way, it was a bus driver, many years ago who taught me how to drive into traffic circles and interstate highways.

One of those elderly drivers got me about 5 years ago. She was stopped at a red left turn signal, but claims she forgot what intersection she was in and made a left on the red turn signal. I don't know of any intersection where you're allowed do to that. I agree that if this person did not know where she was, she shouldn't have been driving.

I also witnessed an elderly lady at the driver license office being given a vision test. She couldn't tell that there were any letters in there at all. They told her to come back after she had her eyes examined!!

So, yes, make sure people are competent to be driving, but don't concentrate solely on the elderly.

[1monster]

5. True... BUT

Every time I see one of these "must have hit the gas pedal instead of the break pedal" stories, I am reminded of random SUDDEN UNEXPLAINED ACCELERATION.

This is a problem that the auto industry has done a lot to keep quiet.

In cars that have cruise control, moisture can sometimes get into the cruise control wire and create a connection which will engage the cruise control without he driver being aware.

My husband and I have had two vehicles that have done this. One was his, one is mine. The first one happened before I found out about the cause. After several trips to the garage and mucho mas dinero trying to get it repaired with no luck, my husband and I traded it in.

Then I heard about the moisture/cruise control connection. So I was prepared the day that my car accelerated with my foot on the BREAK PEDAL when I was pulling into my driveway. I had my foot all the way to the floor (thank God I'd been going only between five and ten mph to begin with) and the car was not stopping. Remembering the cruise control problem, I threw the car into park, probably damaging my transmission, but at least I didn't hit the house. That was what stopped the car.

And in case you think I hit the wrong pedal, there was a path of about fifteen feet of pine needles swept from my driveway and caught beneath the rear tires where the breaks were trying to hold despite the acceleration of the engine.

I had the mechanic disconnect the cruise control, which I never used anyway, and have not had a bit of a problem with it since.

[Exultant Democracy]

47. Good point

I say we wait for some facts before we start making a bunch of judgements.
As for the age thing, there should not be some arbitrary line that you cross and are no longer be able to drive because of. Every person ages differently, my grandmother is 7 years younger then my grandfather and while he still drives just fine, she has been unfit to drive for years. I do think that more mandatory testing would be advisable, they guy from Santa Monica hadn’t been tested since 2000 and even then it was just a sight test. Leave the bigotry and vast sweeping statements to the GOP, we are too smart for that.

[MUAD_DIB]

6. That should go for many not just the old.

What's ther percentage of teens or young folk that get into accidents compared to the 86 year olds?

I don't have the numbers (yet), but there are plenty of teens and A-holes of every age on cell phones, driving drunk, doing their makeup, driving aggressively or just plain acting stupid that should not be behind the wheel.

Frankly most people think that driving a car is their right when it is a privilege.

My parents are in their 70's and they both have impeccable driving records: no accidents.

[Sirius_on]

9. Look at this man

Case closed.

I have seen so many elderly cause accidents. Its not even debatable, they should not be driving. I think there should be 6 month tests for anyone over 75 in the entire country.

[MUAD_DIB]

Well it's certainly refreshing to see that you are

not reactionary in any way. :eyes:

I have seen many idiots that have caused (or nearly caused) accidents to know that one group is no better than the other when it comes to autostupidity.

I have seen women on the cell phone and doing their makeup at the same time. I have seen zipper heads cruising through store parking lots at 40+ mph. I have seen drunk drivers retain their licenses regardless of how many violations that they have had.

This is a tragedy that this guy and his family will have to live with forever.

As to your idea for a 6 month test ...I say Good. Everybody should be tested regularly. ...even you.

[Sirius_on]

81. Back to reality now

While it may make you feel all fuzzy inside not picking on a certain group of people, these people are generally the only group that has deteriorating skills. While it would be nice to test everyone every 6 months, its not feasable. Lets test anyone over 75 every 6 months and a great majority of the problem will be resolved.

[MUAD_DIB]

107. I live in reality. You should try it some time.

You sure can test everybody every 4 years. Driving is a privelege not a right.

There are too many people that drive recklessly. Remember that the next time that some A-hole in an SUV or Volvo tries to sideswipe you.

Have you ever been rear-ended by some sweet young thing that was doing her fucking makeup instead of watching the road?

Have you ever been involved in a hit and run by some drunk college co-eds?

I didn't think so.

Deteriorating skills vs blatant disregard for saftey on the road.

Maybe you need to take the RMV vision test over again. You seem to be blind to some of the bigger offenders out there on the road.

[SuffragetteSal]

14. news said this morning

that there are 18.9 million drivers in this country over 70 years old.

[RummyTheDummy]

11. Testing old fart drivers

I think testing should be mandatory on a yearly basis after a certain age.
Just yesterday I almost had an old fart back into me with his 40 foot Ford Crown Victoria despite the fact I was absolutely laying on the horn. The man couldn't even hear it until he got about an inch from hitting me. That's dangerous.

[JitterbugPerfume]

21. when my dad was in his mid 80's

he demolished a car wash. Fortunately no one was hurt. If he had hurt or killed someone , I fear to think what he would have done to himself

Daddy said that he knew what he wanted to do (stop the car) BUT HE JUST COULDN'T DO IT

That was the last time my dad drove a car

Daddy is now close to 95 years old . He is just now starting to slip a little mentally

These OLD PEOPLE need to be OFF THE ROADS

[Junkdrawer]

16. The only accident I was ever in as a driver...

was caused by an 87 yr. old driver who couldn't see my car (a bright red Honda Civic at 2:00 PM on a sunny day) and tried to guess no one was coming by the color of the light she could see on her side of the signal (I had a green light and was, thankfully, driving 5 mph under the limit because I just came from the home center).

The cop on the scene found her at fault, but refused to give her a ticket because her husband was influential in the community. He swore the insurance company would make sure she would never drive again. I'll bet she drove again.

[Clete]

17. Don't make blanket assertions.

I once worked for a ninety-one year old man, who not only still worked at his job but also drove without incident. On the other hand he had to take away his wife's diver's license and sell her car because she couldn't drive safely anymore due to medical problems, and she was fourteen years younger than him.

My feeling is the lawyers for this man should get him a medical evaluation. It appears to me he had a small stroke, which would have caused a split second of blanking out, enough to lose control of a moving vehicle. This dis-orientation probably caused him to accelerate instead of braking. Eye-witness accounts of him revving up when hitting something leads me to believe he was trying to stop but hit the wrong pedal.

True many old people shouldn't drive anymore, but no one has come up with a reasonable solution to testing these people for license renewal nor has anyone come up with a solution for them to get around. This is a time when they need to see doctors and get therapy and most cities do not have adequate public transportation to solve this problem. In my case, I live out in the country and there is no public transportation. I have to drive. The upside is that country roads are not crowded so most likely I would hit a fence or post and not much of anything else.

The farmers market, where I too shopped, when I lived in Santa Monica could be moved to the Palisades Park and off the street. Many residents have complained about the street being blocked off and this has fallen on deaf ears. There is also a large parking lot at the Civic Auditorium and other off-road public property that could be used and is safer.

[Gin]

23. Geez...one thing for sure is that we will ALL get old...

testing is fair for all ages...

One time my accelerator stuck and I couldnt stop the car...had to ly have a passenger pull the pedal up..a motor mount wasn't put on after some repair work...

when I heard the story...he didnt slow down...something is weird here...besides his age.

[Clete]

29. One way to solve malfunction problems

is to utilize the hand brake in emergencies. How many of us have put foot to brake pedal and nothing happens. The emergency brake will stop the car. I think it would help also for accelerator pedals sticking. Also, who was the genius who put the brake pedal next to the accelerator? There was a time, when all cars had stick shifts, that the clutch was placed between the accelerator and brake pedal. Auto engineers really need to find a design that will separate these two functions, period.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

105. ummm...clutch between accelerator and brake???

I don't think so...and I have driven cars all the way back to model T's. NONE have had the setup you mention. To the best of my knowledge it cannot be done. Think about it. You are stopped...clutch pressed to the floor disengaging transmission. You wish to move. You take foot OFF of the clutch to press the accelerator (you have to do that because they are side by side in your setup). As SOON as you release the clutch, the transmission gears engage and before you can get to the accelerator the engine stalls. This setup you say used to exist WOULD NOT WORK. The clutch and the accelerator MUST be operated by different feet...thus the layout...

TheProdigal

[shimmergal]

87. Link testing for older drivers to _good_ alternate transport they can use.

We don't have this anywhere. Where I live, there is a special bus that will take disabled people to the doctor or to church, but 1) you have to prove you're majorly disabled, not just voluntarily retired from driving and 2) doctors' appts. and church are _not_ necessarily the only places a person should be able to go.

[sirshack]

18. ...and teenagers of driving age...

...cause a lot of accidents, too. Should we make the age for a drivers license higher? Should people predisposed to alcoholism be prevented from driving? What about people who have been in more than two or three accidents in a certain period of time (say, two years) in which they were at fault?

I'm more hopeful that families can intervene, or seniors still of general mental capacity can determine for themselves that they should not drive anymore (my grandfather still drives occasionally, but realizes his limits and does a good job policing himself). States can set their own rules as they like, and I have no problem with that...but I think an all-out ban on drivers over a certain age is not the right way to go.

[lapislzi]

33. You can be incompetent at any age

I worry most about people who don't realize they're incompetent.

[FlaGranny]

37. My mom drove

until she was in her early 80's. She was a great driver and never made me nervous when I rode with her. Her reflexes were great. But then she started to develop cataracts, which make it very difficult to drive after dark. One evening as she was coming home, the oncoming lights blinded her and she hit the curb. That was the very last time she ever got behind the driver's wheel. She decided, on her own, that it was too dangerous. Of course, she had family to drive her where she needed to go. After she got those cataracts removed, I feel she would still have been a safe driver. She drove a car for 65 years and only had one accident and a drunk driver was at fault.

[slackmaster]

39. I'm with you on families intervening

The problem is that old people can be so damn stubborn. We have a major problem with it in my family right now. Fortunately my 95-year-old grandma has enough sense not to drive. She sold her last car 10 years ago.

[chromotone]

43. Its about individual responsibility...

Sure, teens cause accidents. And they're held accountable, too. A news report this morning stated that investigators went to the house of this elderly driver and found he had run through the back wall of his garage at least twice before this accident. It seems to me then he was playing against time and knew the risks when he ran down the people at the farmer's market. He should have realized his driving abilities had diminished so and quit driving after the first time he ran through the back wall of his garage and CERTAINLY after the second.

So what to do? How will he be held accountable? Nine deaths? Nine life sentences?

Or are teens (young and healthy) the only ones who should serve time?

Oh, and by the way, DO show me this thread when I'm 86. Chances are I won't be driving, particularly if I have a history of slamming though the back wall of my garage.

[Darth_Kitten]

85. I'll trust a young person's reflexes over an older persons...

it's not about age discrimination, it's about the facts.

Can't tell you how many times I've nearly been hit by an older person going through a red light, totally oblivious to the fact that they just nearly hit somebody (eyes straight ahead, kept on driving)

whoops. :eyes:

[trof]

19. Give 'em Harleys!

;-)

[drdigi420]

28. WRONG

The driving test needs to be made tougher and more frequent along with better driver training.

That way we can raise these insanely low speed limits, as everyone will be a competent driver and won't need to be limited to the pathetically slow rates that the lowest common denominator needs.

Speed doesn't kill, bad drivers do.

MAKE THE TEST HARDER AND MORE FREQUENT.

[Heddi]

73. I totally agree

I, as a 27 year old driver, would be willing to take a TOTAL driving test every..oh...five years--I'm talking driving guy IN THE CAR as you parallel park, 3-pt turn and all that shit---if it meant that ALL unsafe drivers, regardless of age, would have a higher chance of not being behind the wheel.

My grandmother is 66 years old. She has only taken one driver's license test in her life, and that was when she was 14. She's renewed her licenses, and gotten the eye test, but hasn't had any evaulation or testing of her driving skills since she was 14 years old. That's 52 years ago.

I find, through the elderly people I know, that a problem with eldery people and their driving is that they get cars that are WAYYY too big for them to safely maneuver.

Granny used to drive this 85-ft long Ford Crown Vic LTD...you could NOT parallel park that thing---it couldn't fit easily into the space.

It's a common and sad occurance (for me anyways) to see elderly people who seriously cannot see over their steering wheel, and who cannot see clearly in their side or rear view mirrors and they're trying to back into a space, and they just can't do it.

Gran said the best thing she ever did was get rid of the Crown Vic and get a geo metro. She finds driving much easier now in a smaller car.

[Clete]

75. The worst thing I had to do was to trade in DH's

F250, V8, 4X4 pickup truck. It was way too big for either of us to drive. I had to do this after I sold the trailer the truck pulled. I refused to go anywhere in it again although I secretly was heartbroken that our snowbird days were over with. My husband really couldn't handle this rig anymore, but wouldn't admit it. I had no such illusions about my ability to handle it. He stubbornly hung on to the truck though until I traded it in for a Jeep Cherokee one afternoon when he was taking a nap. He now admits I did the right thing, but he was really mad for awhile.

Sometimes one has to do drastic things. All of this could have been avoided if he would have been required to take a test for hauling the trailer. He wouldn't have passed it and I wouldn't have been on the verge of a nervous breakdown. I don't know what is going to happen when it is time to get his keys away from him for good, but I don't think it will be on account of the DMV grounding him. This is no problem as long as I am alive, but then.....?

[damnraddem]

30. States should judge by evidence of actual functioning, not just age.

Some 80-year-olds still function fine for driving, and have more sense than 20-year-old idiots and immortal teenagers. Some states require more-frequent retesting for drivers over a given age -- that still allows an older person to demonstrate competence. But states are not known for being good at judging anyone's competence, especially once initially licensed.

[ArkDem]

35. Sounds like age profiling

to me.

[Sirius_on]

82. Why cant 3 year olds drive? SOUNDS LIKE PROFILING TO ME!

Sounds pretty silly doesnt it? If you think all aged people are the same, your crazy. You know and I know that allot of elderly should not be on the road. They eventually have low reation times and cause accidents. Pretty much every person slows down as they get older, yet there are no laws forbidding them from driving. In some instances there are no younger family members to take the responsible steps to removing there ability to drive.

We need some type of law to reduce this problem. If there was a law those 9 people may not be gone right now.

[ArkDem]

86. Wouldn't that be "you're crazy"

.

[ArkDem]

88. Most people killed in accidents which are caused by males

ages 16 - 25. Should we keep them from driving? You just can't make broad generalizations.

[classics]

36. Instead of trying to hole up the elderly.

How about we replace thier need to drive by offering free, safe transportation as a thanks for thier contributions to society?

90 year old people who cant see yet are still forced to drive around to get food, medication and family is a symptom of a problem. Fix that and much of this problem will go away.

Keep restricting everything and enforcing this 'every man for himself till the grave' attitude, and the problem will only get worse in spite of any legislation you manage to pass.

[lapislzi]

41. Good point. I think many wish the elderly would go away

In our vapid culture of youth, the elderly are simply icky. We (the youthful, the fit, the toned) don't want to think about sagging skin and teeth in a glass. It doesn't fit in with our Nike world view. Elders have no value in this (non)culture.

I see very little space on these boards devoted to issues affecting the elderly. More's the pity.

For the record, I'm not a senior citizen (yet)...but I play one on TV.

[Clete]

55. Well, we left Santa Monica and Los Angeles County

when my husband retired,because frankly the youth culture there eats its old. This unfortunate star-crossed gentleman seems to have been well-off. The car he drove and neighborhood he lived in suggests he had sufficient assets to afford a comfortable retirement for him and his wife in a city most elderly cannot afford to live in with a fixed income. Yet, this tragedy has happened because there is not a county wide effort to accommodate the elderly of all income levels.

He seems to have tried to do all the sensible things and yet fate intervened. This is Greek tragedy really. If he had a brain stroke, which is what I am suspicious happened, nothing really could have averted this tragedy except maybe stricter licensing requirements for seniors and better public transportation. I lived in Santa Monica most of my life and although the public transportation is very good, it doesn't accommodate the special needs of seniors. This person lived three blocks from the nearest bus stop, nothing for young people, but a very hard walk for a person with a hip-replacement.

[jagguy]

44. people from teenage thru anciet lose the capability to drive so

test them. And not just some silly drive around cone deal. Make it real, charge to cover it. Driving is a privilidge not a right. And prosecute the bejesus out of anything like this or teenage dui crap. Make it a BIG problem to screw up.

[northofdenali]

46. My mom, who is also 86, drives well. She also advocates

mandatory yearly testing for everyone over 75. However, you do NOT want to ride with my father-in-law, who is younger than mom.

[berton]

51. Disturbing

Generally speaking, I can't see how any reasonable person would be able to support any action that would single out a particular 'group' of people (whether that be pro or con).
The question is competence. Since competence cannot be determined by the 'group' to which you belong, neither can incompetence.
The only answer to the question of competence is qualification. This already exists ... but as can be possibly seen by this tragedy and the several other examples noted in this thread - there's a real possibility it needs updated.
Make the system of qualification work - don't arbitrarily deny perfectly capable drivers the same rights as anyone else simply because they belong to a group of people against which it is apparently so easy to discriminate.

[lumpy]

53. Think of Sen. Byrd

This guy is sharp as a tack in spite of his halting speech and body tremble. His mind is still clicking away and he makes more sense than Bush never dreamed of being able to do. But for Pete's sake I wouldn't want him behind the wheel and I'm sure he'd agree.

[lumpy]

54. Think of Sen. Byrd

This guy is sharp as a tack in spite of his halting speech and body tremble. His mind is still clicking away and he makes more sense than Bush never dreamed of being able to do. But for Pete's sake I wouldn't want him behind the wheel and I'm sure he'd agree.

[Maple]

58. Stephen Hawking? Christopher Reeves?

Younger people can have physical problems too. You just compensate for that.

You don't ban all people of some age group because of individuals.

[Sirius_on]

83. No you dont

You test them every 6 months, PERIOD.

[DerekG]

59. Why are so many of us skirting this issue?

Because of the slower reaction time that comes with aging- for the MAJORITY of people- a man just involuntarily killed nine people with his car.

Spare me the maudlin pleas to "respect the feelings of the elderly"; a 3 year old girl will not have the opportunity to experience all that this world has to offer because of this man.

Make the tests more arduous for everyone. It's a ton of steel for f@#k's sake!!!!

[roguevalley]

60. all well and good for you urban folks with transportation options

but for the millions of us who live in rural areas, what then?
Don't tell us to car pool. Ain't feasible.

[JCMach1]

62. Studies also show MOST TEENAGERs represent a statistically

greater threat as well. It's not just dangerous driving behavior.

Physiologically there nervous systems have not caught up to their bodies. This leaves the majority of teens not as competent with motor skills like operating a vehicle.

Lay off the elderly bashing and let's just state:

PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT PHYSICALLY OR MENTALLY ABLE SHOULD NOT DRIVE...

There are also 30 and 40 year olds with alzheimers...

and maybe 16-18 year olds shouldn't be allowed to drive...

[bunnyhop]

63. Well then - teenagers shouldn't be allowed to drive either

Nor anyone with a DUI conviction or anyone with a speeding conviction for 80 mph or more. Also radios and CDs should be banned from cars. Point is that everybody is a terrible driver and nothing is done about it so stop singling out the geezers.

[ButterflyBlood]

65. just require them to pass retesting

the same test for everyone. if they prove they are capable, they can continue to drive. otherwise, they can't.

[Clete]

68. Some common sense from the younger generation. Thank you.

Old people really need medical screening as well, although, sometimes things pop up unexpectedly even in younger people. My husband had a brain stroke, which I recognized right away because my father had many strokes, so we were able to get him taken care of right away before any damage was done. Still, we have limited his driving to daytime because it has appeared to us that he suffers from some night vision impairment although there is no license requirement to test this.

Families should intervene if a parent is displaying signs of mental or physical impairment. This is the best course. However, since many seniors don't live near family to help out, society needs to give them the means of getting around and maintaining a quality of life without endangering those around them.

Now if you younger people stop running read lights, playing your radios at deafening decibels, and shoving your front bumpers against our rear ones because the speed limit is too slow for you, then we are even.

[Clete]

69. Some common sense from the younger generation. Thank you.

Old people really need medical screening as well, although, sometimes things pop up unexpectedly even in younger people. My husband had a brain stroke, which I recognized right away because my father had many strokes, so we were able to get him taken care of right away before any damage was done. Still, we have limited his driving to daytime because it has appeared to us that he suffers from some night vision impairment although there is no license requirement to test this.

Families should intervene if a parent is displaying signs of mental or physical impairment. This is the best course. However, since many seniors don't live near family to help out, society needs to give them the means of getting around and maintaining a quality of life without endangering those around them.

Now if you younger people stop running read lights, playing your radios at deafening decibels, and shoving your front bumpers against our rear ones because the speed limit is too slow for you, then we are even.

[Aaron]

76. Retesting seems logical to me too <n/t>

[NightTrain]

72. Neither should 92-year-olds...

...like the 92-year-old woman in Windsor, Connecticut, who recently turned the main entrance of that town's public library into a drive-thru. It was damned lucky that she didn't hurt or kill anyone!

[bunnyhop]

74. YOU FEEL SORRY FOR THE GUY!!!!????

WTF are you talking about?. The guy is a mass murderer. And unless he's locked up he'll just do it again. Taking away his license won't stop him anymore than it stops drunk drivers. They just keep on driving and killing and you feel sorry for them.

[trumad]

77. The question is...

If you were a Lawyer, who would you rather defend in a situation like this? A 19 year old or a 86 year old?

Of course the 86 year old because you've got a bunch of great excuses, the main being he's 86 years old. Again, I blame the State as much as anyone.

[Speed8098]

80. BS

The guy is a mass murderer. And unless he's locked up he'll just do it again

Locking someone up is NOT the cure-all that you are looking for.

This is an old man who was disoriented. Nothing more.

Mandatory testing is something we NEED.

BTW, I'd even feel sorry for you if you ACCIDENTLY killed 10 people.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

78. my 77 year old father gave up driving on his own .....

and gave his cars to grandkids...he went on to live an active live for 15 more years ...he was a good soul and wise

[opihimoimoi]

79. We had the monies to set up systems to filter out the incompetent

drivers as they age into the elder realm. We had the resources to do this years ago. We had the time too.

But we did not. We spent it all on other things. We spent it on war machines, on tax cuts, on "pork projects", and on the interest for our huge 6.7 trilliuon National debt. We are victims of poor National Planning. Its our own damn fault.

[corarose]

84. There should be a cut off age and 86 is too old

We have had accidents in Chicago where seniors have plowed into the public and killed them.
It's time for the GOVERMENT to pass a law to take people off the road at a certain age.
Flame me for this but I am sick of hearing about their pedal on the car getting stuck.

[Iris]

89. the problem that needs to be addressed

is why have we set up our cities so that it is impossible not to drive?

This is a problem for the young as well as the old. A lot of teenagers in my area are given cars at a young age. Many families consider this a necessity as it gets harder and harder to get their kids to school and extracurricular activies.

I'd like to see someone start talking about how these octogenerians are going to get to the drug store, grocery store, and doctor's appointments.

[ArkDem]

90. Bush lied

THOUSANDS DIED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[ArkDem]

91. Bush lied

THOUSANDS DIED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[ArkDem]

Bush lied

THOUSANDS DIED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[ArkDem]

Bush lied

THOUSANDS DIED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[ArkDem]

92. Bush lied

THOUSANDS DIED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[ArkDem]

93. Bush lied

THOUSANDS DIED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[ArkDem]

Bush lied

THOUSANDS DIED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[ArkDem]

94. Bush lied

THOUSANDS DIED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[ArkDem]

95. Bush lied

THOUSANDS DIED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[ArkDem]

Bush lied

THOUSANDS DIED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[ArkDem]

96. Bush lied

THOUSANDS DIED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[ArkDem]

97. Bush lied

THOUSANDS DIED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[ArkDem]

98. Bush lied

THOUSANDS DIED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[ArkDem]

Bush lied

THOUSANDS DIED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[ArkDem]

99. Bush lied

THOUSANDS DIED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[ArkDem]

Bush lied

THOUSANDS DIED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[ArkDem]

100. Bush lied

THOUSANDS DIED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[ArkDem]

101. Bush lied

THOUSANDS DIED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[ArkDem]

Bush lied

THOUSANDS DIED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[ArkDem]

102. Bush lied

THOUSANDS DIED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[ArkDem]

103. Bush lied

THOUSANDS DIED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[trumad]

104. ArkDem

Tell me this was a software glitch? :wtf:

[ArkDem]

106. If you can call my 9 year old son grabbing the pc

while I was away a glitch.

[noonwitch]

108. My grandpa is 90 and he still drives

He drives more slowly than he used to, but he still can drive competently. He is mentally sound, his vision is good and his coordination is intact for driving a car.
Now my late grandma (other side of family) was a whole different story. My dad and his brother were letting her drive at age 84 when she didn't even know who they were anymore! She kept getting lost in Detroit and was extremely lucky on two occasions when she kept driving by gas stations and when she finally went in for gas, the observant clerks took her keys and called my uncle. She also drove fast, even when she was competent. She could make it from Detroit to Grand Rapids in 90 minutes (a 140 mile ride).
It's a case by case decision. Some older people maintain their abilities and some don't. The SOS in Michigan has different procedures for people over 75 in Michigan who are renewing their licenses. Relatives can call and report people, and then the office can insist on a road test prior to issuing the license. The elderly also have to have their vision tested every four years.