Raw Milk Advocates - Read this. E. coli outbreak in Oregon

[yellowcanine]

http://www.oregonlive.com/search/index.ssf?/base/metro_north_news/1134444305320340.xml?oregonian?nn&coll=7

It is not proven that the outbreak is a result of drinking raw milk but drinking raw milk from one farm is the common ingredient in 5 of the 6 cases.

[MuseRider]

1. Like anything else

there is always a risk when you have to depend on other people to handle things. As much as I would love to drink raw milk I would not unless it was from my cow and I handled it myself. But that is just me.

[yellowcanine]

2. It just pisses me off that people throw out over 100 years of science

and experience on the dangers of raw milk and feed it to unsuspecting kids because they think they know better based on some quack somewhere with zero scientific credentials.

[Coexist]

4. My brother-in-law's in-laws (is that clear?)

owned a small dairy farm and fed their kids raw milk all their lives. I had never heard of it before then. They (to my knowledge) never got sick from it. Beyond that, I have no experience in the raw milk thing.

[BanzaiBonnie]

8. I don't know how much you know about milk and pasteurization...

Yes, pasteurization has enabled the mechanization and expansion of farms to current sizes to meet production demands while not spreading virulent and terrible diseases.

But there are real problems with what has been done to milk. As in many facets of life there are trade-offs. Girls hormones being activated early by bovine growth hormones and whole populations over-exposure to antibiotics may be making vulnerable are only two of a myriad of issues with current factory farm practices.

[jmowreader]

11. How does pasteurization fit into that?

It is possible to pasteurize milk from herds whose farmers don't use rBGH or feed antibiotics.

It's also possible that raw milk could be obtained from herds in which rBGH and antibiotic-laced feed are both employed.

And pasteurization was invented long before the factory farm.

Factory farm problems and pasteurization issues are completely separate from what I can see.

[yellowcanine]

16. Pasteurization has zero to do with antibiotic use and use of BGH. Red

herrings are not an argument. We were pasteurizing milk in the U.S. when farmers were still milking cows by hand, a herd of 25 cows was a big herd, and antibiotics hadn't been invented yet, not to mention bovine growth hormone. As for "what has been done to milk", farmers cannot ship milk with antibiotic residues. If antibiotic residues are found the whole load is condemned and the farmer loses a bulk tank of milk plus the cost of the truckload of milk which his milk contaminated. And BGH occurs naturally in milk and has no effect on the development of girls. You are thinking of putting hormones in the feed of beef cattle to increase weight gain -not the same thing. Liquid milk is the one product that it is illegal to add anything to, except vitamin D. Even water or milk solids cannot be added to liquid milk.

[MuseRider]

10. It really pays

to study the science then study who did the study. It is hard to learn the truth anymore but it is a worthwhile thing to do, especially if you are making decisions for others like your children. Raw milk is quite healthy under the correct circumstances. These days I would only consider those circumstances to be my own. Too much nasty stuff out there, too many dumb people who do not follow the workplace rules and too many businesses whose last concern is their customer.

[BanzaiBonnie]

12. I don't know for sure,

but your reaction strikes me as being rather ivory tower elitist.

Reactionary statements like that are what gets some of us country folk's panties in a bunch<G> There is such a thing as folk wisdom and science is not the be all and end all. Even though I believe in science and think it's the bee's knees, there is far more that we don't know than what we do know.

Best not to swing too far in one direction or another in looking for answers.

[yellowcanine]

17. And your reaction strikes me as Luddite. Pasteurization is hardly

ivory tower or even cutting edge science. Who are "us country folk"? All of the dairy farmers that I know live in the country and ship their milk to a processor who pasteurizes it. Killing bacteria with heat is about as basic as you can get - it is not rocket science or genetic engineering, for Christ sakes. And sometimes folk "wisdom" ain't so wise, particularly the folk wisdom around food safety. Yes I grew up on a dairy farm and we drank raw milk. But no way would I do it knowing what I know now. It only takes one slip up to kill you even when you have been doing something for 25 years or whatever.

[BanzaiBonnie]

3. Thanks for bringing this up

First of all, this is in Washington state. The confusion comes from being a border county and all our news is funneled through stations in Portland, Oregon.

Growing up in a rural area, we had a cow and always drank raw milk. I agree I would have trouble drinking raw milk unless I owned the cow or intimately knew the conditions of cleanliness of the dairy.

That said it is in my plans, for the not too distant future, to own a milk cow or goat.

[yellowcanine]

21. Even with my own cow I would be careful. I still wouldn't give raw milk

to a young child, a pregnant woman or an old person. Even if one is really careful cleaning the udder, etc, particularly if one is hand milking into a bucket it is a real crap (no pun) shoot as to whether one can be sure of keeping bacteria out of the milk. Cooling the milk quickly and consuming it within a couple of days will help but one has to ask oneself - is it really worth it? Some of these bacteria are deadly.

[wicket]

5. As a child growing up in the 80s, I drank nothing but "raw milk"

Straight from my family's dairy farm.

[nosmokes]

6. the outbreak is in washington state, not oregon. n/t

[Mr. McD]

7. I was raised on raw milk,

butter, and cream and still drink it when I can get it from a trusted source. It tastes better and is a lot better for you nutritionally speaking.

[yellowcanine]

9. Link for the claim that it is better nutritionally? This is a common

claim that has no scientific basis so you might not want to make it unless you have a scientific study. How nutritious can it be if you it infects you with e coli or some other of about a half dozen bacterial diseases?

[Mr. McD]

24. Some older referances but still valid.

Effect of Pasteurization of Milk on Growth

-Krauss, W. E., Erb, J. H. and Washburn, R.G., "Studies on the nutritive value of milk, II." "The effect of pasteurization on some of the nutritive properties of milk," Ohio Agricultural Experiment Station Bulletin 518, page 8, January 1933.

-Daniels, A.L., and Loughlin, R., Journal of Biological Chemistry, 44.381, 1920, as abstracted by Holmes and Pigott, "Factors that influence the anti-rachitic value of milk in infant feeding," Oil & Soap, 12.9:202-207, September, 1935.

Pasteurization Destroys Vitamin A

-Krauss, W.E., Erb, J.H. and Washburn, R.G. Studies on the nutritive value of milk, II. The effect of pasteurization on some of the nutritive properties of milk," Ohio Agricultural Experiment Station Bulletin 518, page 9, January, 1933.

Pasteurization Destroys Vitamin B Complex

-Lewis, L.R., The relation of the vitamins to obstetrics, American Journal of Obstetrics and Gynecology, 29.5:759. May, 1935.

Krauss, W. E., Erb, J. H. and Washburn, R.G., Studies on the nutritive value of milk, II. The effect of pasteurization on some of the nutritive properties of milk," Ohio Agricultural Experiment Station Bulletin 518, page 7, January, 1933.


Pasteurization Destroys Vitamin C

-Jordan, E.O.,A Textbook of General Bacteriology, Twelfth Edition, Revised, page
-Overstreet, R.M., Northwest Medicine, June, 1938, as abstracted by Clinical Medicine and Surgery, "The Increase of Scurvy," 42, 12:598, December, 1938.

-Woessner, Warren W., Evehjem, C.A., and Schuette, Henry A., "The determination of ascorbic acid in commercial milks," Journal of Nutrition, 18,6:619-626, December, 1939.

The Lancet, page 1142, May 8, 1937 says that in children the teeth are less likely to decay on diet supplemented with raw milk than with pasteurized milk.

[yellowcanine]

25. Still valid? 1930's research? How about something a TEENY bit more

recent? Here is what the FDA said in 2004.
http://www.fda.gov/fdac/features/2004/504_milk.html

Even if your 1930s papers were relevent, how important is it to get a few more vitamins if you die from listeria or e coli? Particularly vitamins that are available in much larger quantities in other foods? Who, for example, drinks milk for vitamin C? Get real.

[TX-RAT]

14. Same here.

Drank nothing but raw milk until i was 18.

[yellowcanine]

20. So did I but it is still not a good idea. One slip up is all it takes.

The bacteria don't care how long you have been drinking raw milk without incident.

[pocket]

13. .

.

[mainer]

15. cheese made from raw milk does taste better

I wouldn't drink raw milk, but shouldn't cheese made from it be fairly safe, thanks to aging and bacterial action? In Europe, such cheeses are actually the norm. (And they DO taste better than cheese made from pasteurized milk.)

[yellowcanine]

18. Aging does kill most bacteria but not always all. Listeria bacteria

can survive the aging process, for example. It's a grey area. The risk is probably small for an otherwise healthy adult. I wouldn't feed unpasteurized cheese to kids or adults with compromised immune systems.

[Bridget Burke]

19. Pasteurization is the way to go unless you know the cow....

And I don't have room for a cow in my back yard. If I got a goat, the neighbors would expect me to ask them over for cabrito.

Some questionable things are done to our dairy products, but Louis Pasteur had a good idea..

[rustydog]

22. Yes it is the milk. My niece is one of the critical cases.

[yellowcanine]

23. Sorry to hear that. I don't understand how so many people will defend

the practice of selling raw milk when the risks are so great.