Ok..all you hetero types...what's up with this stuff?

[kevinbgoode]

In the ongoing saga of female pedophilia, the christo-fascists are struggling with how to handle older women who indulge in...well, shall we say...blossoming young hunks...and then end up preggo. You see, the state of Georgia, one of several which apparently have rather lax marriage laws, allows minors to marry without parental permission if the female becomes pregnant. Of course, this is also one of the states in which Republicans and Baptists were so mortified that two gay taxpaying adults who live together might want legal protections that they ranted until the state's electorate voted for one of them protect-marriage-for-the-hetero-supremacists amendments. It was, of course, all about saving the babies and all those other holier-than-thou-could-ever-possibly-hope-to-be things they use to raise money on their television ministries and elect ex-drunks to the White House.
Anyway, the trial begins for this sweet 37-year-old JawJa lady who just happened to fall passionately in love with one of her son's buddies. . .the kid, all of 15, snuck out of the house one day and married her in the driveway. No problemo, says the judge, cuz the lady looked a whole lot younger - and anyway, she was expecting, so a kid hubby is okay so long as wedding guests wrap him up a new X-Box for a gift.
But as this story unfolds, there are lots and lots and lots of other cases - something which makes me wonder what's up with the perfect-American Family Association- postcard images of America wrapped in the arms of the white baby Jeebus. So can you people tell me wassup with this? And what about the guys. .. I mean, they get tossed outa the house and have their peepee threatened with the Bobbitt shears just for tellin' a young lady she has pretty hair...er...okay...I exaggerate here...but are the courts really seeing a different standard between dudes and dudettes?

Help this gay boy understand the immoralities of breeder culture, por favor...:-).

"An American woman who faces child molestation and rape charges after becoming pregnant by a 15-year-old boy she later married has defended their relationship.

Lisa Lynette Clark, 37, who is eight months pregnant and will be arraigned in the state of Georgia next week, is the latest in a series of American women prosecuted for having sex with teenagers.

Earlier this year a teacher, Mary Kay Letourneau, 43, married a former student and the father of her two children after spending more than seven years in jail for rape. Her husband was only 13 when they first had sex.

Increasingly, judges are questioning whether consensual sex with a minor should be treated so harshly when the victim is male, particularly if the couple marry."



http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml;jsessionid=GECW13A5JG3XDQFIQMFCFFOAVCBQYIV0?xml=/news/2005/12/14/wclark14.xml&sSheet=/portal/2005/12/14/ixportal.html

[bammertheblue]

1. Well,

I'm bi, so I guess I'm sort of out in the middle.
I think these women should be treated exactly the same as if they were males having sex with 13,14,15 year old girls. It's not right; it's adults having sex with children and that is not okay in my book. Courts should not have two standards.

[EFerrari]

5. Me, too. And, me, too.

I don't know wtf is going on in this culture. Has this always happened but the screamingly stupid cable channels just noticed? I really don't know.

[bammertheblue]

13. Also

I'm only 22 and I cannot imagine having sex with a 14 year old boy or girl. It's not only morally wrong, it just squicks me out. Not to mention a relationship with a person that age; what could we possibly talk about?
ew.

[Warpy]

17. It's always been just under the cultural radar

and suffered from its own double standard. You know, old hetero guys going nudge, nudge, wink, wink, what kid wouldn't want to sleep with his blonde math teacher?

The problem is that the porn fantasies of adult men aren't quite what they're cracked up to be when they're actually experienced by young kids who really aren't emotionally ready for that minefield we call sex. I've known a few of these guys who started out this way, and they were all resentful of it and pretty screwed up.

Nobody much cared about these guys years ago because the guys simply didn't get pregnant, so what's the harm? Well, it turns out there is harm, and it's about time for this double standard to fall.

[EFerrari]

22. Agree. The last thing an young adolescent male needs

just at the moment when he's trying to figure out his boundaries and to get a clear sense of himself is all that oceanic cr@p! washing over him. How in the world would you ever grow a viewpoint of your very own under those conditions.

[bammertheblue]

31. Exactly

fantasy is not reality. Just because an adult male, thinking back, imagines that it would have been great to sleep with their hot teacher, doesn't mean that it's a good plan in reality.
I would imagine the emotional damage is exactly the same as it would be for a female student.

[FreedomAngel82]

32. I agree

And someone, namely the kids parents, need to tell them that porn is just fantasies. They're two actors living out people's fantasies that someone wrote. It doesn't mean they can go out and do them. No way. And I also agree that the females should be treated the same way as if it were a male.

[Viva_La_Revolution]

7. There ya go...

I've thought about going 'bi'. haven't taken the plunge, so to speak but...

I look at my teenage boys friends and.... ewww. They are little boys! I need a MAN. Thank you very much.

[EFerrari]

19. What I've noticed about some of these women anyway

(can't generalize from the little clips we get on teevee) is that in thosed taped phone conversations, they use a "little girl" voice. It's just uncanny. Their voices go 'way up in pitch and they use a child's language. Very creepy.

[Viva_La_Revolution]

26. Yea!

That one.. (can't remember her name) they played those tapes of their conversations.. she sounded like a 12 year old. very creepy. obviously still stuck there mentally.

[kevinbgoode]

30. That's a good observation. . .

and is there a pattern here? I mean, are a disproportionate number of these cases involving teachers? I mean, I guess they could be nuns. . .j/k.

[EFerrari]

37. They think they're Tinkerbelle or something. It's like they

have no connection to shared reality. At all.

[FreedomAngel82]

33. The girl from Florida??

The one who was still a newly wed?

[Maru Kitteh]

63. NOT GIRL, adult WOMAN TEACHER from Florida

Why on EARTH would you call her a "girl"?

[EFerrari]

34. I hear it in Mary Kay's tapes but also one other one.

You could HEAR them regressing. Mary Kay has multiple mental health problems - which is not to excuse her behavior in any way. I don't know much about the other teacher (was she in FL?) except she sounded completely unlike her usual self on that tape.

It's like they're retreating to some idyllic childhood by dragging these poor kids into their messed up adult hood. :(

[RagingInMiami]

66. What tapes?

[EFerrari]

71. I saw a "bio" of women and little boys one

weekend on MSNBC. They used snippets of tapes that apparently were introduced into evidence and are part of the public record.

[jbnow]

53. That just reminded me

Years ago a cousin (who is my age) had some trouble and had to stay at my home with her kids for a while.

One day she asked me how I could be around my son (14) and not be really turned on. ewwwww. Very, very easily. I was glad she had just daughters. I hurried her out.

I have to say the recoil at that level from anyone near my son's age stayed. Once he was adult and young men his age would try to woo it would be very hard not to laugh. I'd gently suggest I might have brought them home a few years before to play with my son but never with me.

[Fleshdancer]

21. I agree completely n/t

[msongs]

2. heteros have 13 kids then complain they are poor...go figger :-) nt

[EFerrari]

40. I'd complain that I was sore.

LOL

[...of J.Temperance]

43. Not ALL straight people are having 13 kids!! n/t

[tuvor]

What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

My junior high school fantasies notwithstanding.

[swag]

3. Biology is Destiny: Duty Now for the Future!

[hiaasenrocks]

4. One of the most incoherent rants I've seen here.

Can't help ya. Sorry.

[...of J.Temperance]

9. Wasn't Mary Kay whatshernames Dad some Repuke big shot?

I'm sure I read about that...or am I thinking of Susan Smith that drowned her kids?

[melody]

20. Mary Kay's dad was John Schmitz, GOP UberNazi from the 60s

I went to school with her sister.

[...of J.Temperance]

38. Yes, that's him

Heck you went to school with her sister...is the sister weird too?

[melody]

44. Not as weird as Mary Kay. lol

Her old man was certifiable, however. I sensed that in the 5th grade.

[...of J.Temperance]

45. There's got to be some psychological damage in that upbringing

Maybe that's why Mary Kay Letourneau isn't a normal person. I'm glad that her sister is SLIGHTLY less loopy!

[mcctatas]

6. I just heard something on Malloy that might help...

The bible has 6 (forgot the exact #'s but these are close) admonitions to homosexuals and 300+ for us hetero's. This does not mean that God does not love heterosexuals, it just means we need more supervision;)

[EFerrari]

28. LOL!

[FreedomAngel82]

36. That's a good point

If gay people were so evil wouldn't there be more for gay people than us?

[...of J.Temperance]

8. The punishment should be the same, if it's a woman or a man

If a woman has sex with a male under the age of 16, then she is a pedophile and should be treated as such. If a man has sex with a female under the age of 16 then he is a pedophile and should be treated as such.

The woman deserves a strong jail sentence, equal to what a man would receive.

I'm a woman and let's face it WHAT woman would WANT to have sex with EVEN a 16 year-old male...for a start, they'd probably be a virgin and because of that they wouldn't have a clue what they were even doing and it'd be over in about a minute.

Men over 30 are far nicer.


On Edit: Spelling error dammit.

[Lex]

11. I agree that it should be the same punishment, BUT

most lawmakers look at an older male having sex with a younger female as WORSE because the younger victim in that case can become pregnant.

However, if it is a male who is the younger victim, he isn't in the same boat biologically because a consequence of the sex can't be him becoming pregnant.

[...of J.Temperance]

35. Most lawmakers are mouthbreathers though

Yes if a man has sex with an underage girl she could get pregnant.

But if a woman has sex with an underage male she can get pregnant too...and these disgraceful women ARE getting pregnant.

Which is just as bad.

There's GOT to be something wrong with their heads.

[jbnow]

56. Lawmakers? If they set the age of consent

it isn't lawmakers. In the states where the age varies by gender the age is always lower for girls then for boys, always.
I find that perplexing. Girls mature earlier but there is definitely a social view that it's OK if boys "do it" sooner.
But our laws don't think so. Strange.

For example in Iowa a female can consent at 14, a male must be 18.

In other countries when it varies by gender the age of consent is usually lower for boys.

[Lex]

60. Lawmakers set the age of consent by statute.

It varies state by state.

I was just saying that punishment is usually harsher for older males having sex with younger females because as a result of the act, she (a minor) can become pregnant.

So in addition to the emotional scarring, which would be the same for both sexes, the minor female can become pregnant too.

[kevinbgoode]

61. So what happens...if the boy is 14 and the woman..25..

and they are married in Georgia, but move to some state that doesn't let a 14 year old be married? Is their marriage thrown out?

[PinkTiger]

10. OK - I'm 55; and hetero. And a woman. But

15-year-olds don't do much for me now, and they didn't do much for me 20 years ago, and they really didn't do much for me when I was 15.
I always liked older men. My husband, 11 years older than me, tells me that sooner or later I'll run out of ammo - but I do really like them old.

I think the interest in young men has to do with women who are into power. Intellectually, a 15-year-old offers little to a 37-year-old, unless she is intellectually immature, emotionally immature, and is only interested in young, raw, unadulterated (LOL) sex. That a 15-year-old is good at. Very good at. Multiple times. A 37-year-old woman is probably at her sexual peak; if she is feeling sexually frustrated and some horny 15-year-old is around and interested, it may be too much for her to turn down.

That said, she should at least have the sensitivity to feel shame.

Personally, I think it is a criminal act. I don't know of any 15, 16, 17, 18, 19 or even any 28-year olds who are a match for me mentally. If I was some beautiful, sexy babe with my hormones raging, I could take terrible advantage. To do this to a minor is a criminal act and should be prosecuted.

[...of J.Temperance]

14. Sooner or later you'll run out of ammo!!

I'm like you, I only like men older than myself.

I'm 27 and I CANNOT see the attraction of males that are 18 or 19...those that are over 30 yes I like them.

Dunno, maybe when I'm like 80 years-old, I'll get me one of those 19 year-olds ;)

[kevinbgoode]

18. Well, being a gay boy, I can remember crushes in

junior high and high school - of course, all my hetero guy friends would swoon over the youngish English teachers, who looked beautiful and sophisticated and womanly and sexy at 28. . .and I would always fantasize about my male gym teachers - well, a couple of them, who were around the same age. But you just never thought about ...actually approaching them...I mean, that would be mortifying. Instead, the guys would just kinda exaggerate stories of little flirtations in class and the teachers would give them just enough to keep their tongues hanging without even beginning to come close to a line.

I just don't know how any parent could...I mean, the kid was a friend of her SON, for godsakes. I've had younger brothers with hottie buds - but even that would have been a taboo kinda thing, even if they were gay. But I agree about the other 15 year old dudes - they were mostly like underdeveloped countries (both mentally and physically). . .of course, I had a pretty major crush on a classmate about a year older or so, but by then the guys were starting to look like they might turn into real men.

[Straight Shooter]

12. A boy just over the threshold of puberty getting it on with a grown woman?

Puh-leeze.

Maybe on a case-by-case basis when you look at appearances only it isn't so weird, because when I was 37 I looked like I was 25, but the fact remains that I was frickin' 37 and to be getting it on with a 15 year old is just ethically disgusting. That's a child without the experience to fully understand the emotional rollercoaster ride of intimate sexual relations.

"Rock the cradle" is beginning to take on a whole new meaning ...

[Hello_Kitty]

15. I'm just waiting for someone

To demand to know

"Where are the FEMINISTS? Huh?!"

"Why aren't you man hating broads out on the street protesting this? Huh?!"

"It's not FAAAAAAIR!!"

I feel it coming, so in anticipation of that I will say that those who seriously wish to keep MALE adolescents safe from predatory adult women should write letters, start advocacy programs, and do all the work that feminists do get attention to our issues. I agree with you that it's unfair and I also believe that boys are deeply harmed by sexual abuse at the hands of adults.

One thing that may help focus more serious consideration of this issue is if when you talk about it (not you in the OP - the general You) try to stay away from phrases like "Wow, that's wrong but I wish she'd been MY teacher!" *wink* *nudge*

Because that kinda keeps people, including judges, thinking that it's not as bad when it happens to a boy. I'm just sayin' :shrug:

[No Exit]

16. Narcissists stay 16 all their lives.

They think they're the same age as the victim, see?

That's how come they can't see anything wrong with what they did.

Narcissists, thought to be just harmless (but annoying) "mirror people", can actually be quite harmful.

[kevinbgoode]

24. Well yeah...I mean, those kids have parents. . .

who are likely close to the bride's age. I mean, it would be weird enough for me to go out with a college student (traditional age) even though I'm their parents age in graduate school. But at least most of them are over 20. . .and yes, sometimes they look very hot and I have to look in the mirror at the gym and wonder why I can't afford botox. . .j/k. . .but conversationally they are still locked back to the time when I was 18/19. . .a nice time to look at them and remember, but not one I'd want to revisit again.

[No Exit]

39. All you have to do is look into the eyes of that FL woman

You know--that one whose every move to, from, and within, the courtroom, was documented recently on TeeVee? The attractive one?

I mean, look at her. It's so very plain. She is in love with herself. Narcissist with a capital "N". This means her powers of perception are limited by her personality disorder--she is, you can bet, completely, 100%, unable to foresee the consequences of her actions, and completely unable to understand the effect of her actions on others.

The parents of her victim? Probably not paying attention to the people he was coming in contact with. Out to lunch.

That's the sad thing. Child molesters know whose children to target. They can tell when a child is unprotected. That's probably why she zeroed in on that particular boy.

The real crime is the disparity of sentencing btw men who do that, and women who do that. People are always talking about how women get a raw deal here, and a raw deal there, blah blah blah. But the FACT is, when it comes to being sentenced for crimes, women overwhelmingly get a much lighter sentence than do men. I'm talking about trends, as a group, as in statistics. It's true.

[...of J.Temperance]

46. A LOT of this weirdo shit seems to happen in Florida...wonder why? n/t

[No Exit]

48. That's true.. wonder why? Maybe b/c social services in shambles

under Jethro Bush? So there's no one noticing when parents neglect their kids? So parents neglect them so much, nutjobs like these teachers can have their way with the kids? Just a guess.

[...of J.Temperance]

54. And Florida Social Services have "lost" over a thousand children

Since Jethro got in...how EXACTLY do you "lose" over a thousand children?

[No Exit]

57. Well.. ahem... EASY--if they're OTHER people's children!

Unfortunately for Jethro, he can't seem to lose his OWN rotten children!

Oh, ho hum. 1000 children. Who cares? Now we see why Bushworld isn't the least bit perturbed that over 1000 kids are STILL MISSING after Katrina.

Gee, they sure are good at population control. :cry:

[hiaasenrocks]

50. Ever been to Florida?

It really is a nation unto itself. And I have never been around so many oddballs and quirky situations in any other place but Florida.

Yes, my DU handle has something to do with this topic. :)

[...of J.Temperance]

52. I was thinking of taking my Momma to St. Petersberg for a month in

June 2006 actually...what ya saying that this ISN'T a good idea?

You never been around so many oddball and quirky situations in any other place but Florida...hey you ever been to Louisiana? We have some pretty darn odd and quirky situations of our own :)

[RagingInMiami]

68. Worry about your own fucking state

Before you rag on mine.

[...of J.Temperance]

69. .

.

[Jed Dilligan]

23. Excuse me, but, loving and having sex with women

does not make me a "hetero type" nor a "breeder," since I have no kids and don't plan on it.

[hiaasenrocks]

25. How insensitive of you!

You used reason against rage. :)

[kevinbgoode]

27. Sorry...I was just trying to be...well, ya know...

rightwing christo/fascist religiously correct. . .meaning I was just joking with the rhetoric. :-).

[Jed Dilligan]

41. Accepted

But "homo type" doesn't sound very nice, does it?

[kevinbgoode]

47. oh..you'd be amazed how often we hear that term. . .

so thanks for accepting my apology. . .it wasn't used as an intent to offend, but to satirize...poorly, I might add.

[...of J.Temperance]

42. I also find the term "breeder" offensive, the Original Poster used it too

He admitted that he's gay, and that's fine by me. But gay people using the term "breeder" to describe straight people is NO different than if a straight person used the term "f*g" to describe a gay person.

Respect for all sides should occur in these debates and in these comments.

[kevinbgoode]

49. It was just being used as a joke. . .

but actually, I'm kinda glad you find it offensive. The term was first developed as a defense mechanism for gay to counter with when "straights" would refer to us as nothing more than sexual animals rather than people. This means that it has worked - well, at least with some enlightened people.

[...of J.Temperance]

55. Well

Gay people and straight people, we're ALL just people, and as such we're ALL allowed to have sex with whoever we want to regardless...unless it's like the freaks we've been discussing who are fucking underage children, they deserve contempt and locking up for a LONG time.

[REP]

65. Hear, Hear! Straight and Sterilized Does Not Equal Breeder!

It's so funny to hear "my type" being called a breeder! I've been sterilized twice, am as childfree as they come, and last I checked, am straight.

[FreedomAngel82]

29. I find it quite weird myself

And than the girl in Florida who was a young teacher had an affair with a student of hers. Why would you have an affair with someone that big of an age difference? What would you have in common?? :shrug: I don't get it myself.

[AlCzervik]

51. people are stupid and many have piss poor judgement

before the advent of cable news how many of these stories would we even know about? Not many i'm guessing.

[Lex]

58. I agree. I think bad and crazy crap like this has *always* happened

in roughly the same percentage that it happens now.

It's just that never before have we had the 24 hour-per-day news cycle, where three or four cable channels ar devoted entirely to picking up and publicizing every scandalizing/weird/sexually deviant story that gets any hometown coverage.

[jbnow]

59. If the couple marry

or have a child it's even worse for the kid. Then it's not a sexual fling, it is life altering. They are trapped in a world they don't belong in for a very long time.

I realize some young boys would really like to have sex and in many cultures an older woman would indeed teach them. I can't say it is always bad. I can say it should never ever be their school teacher.

Someone higher in the thread noted the women must want power. I bet that is true. It certainly is for men who like very young women.

As a counselor I worked with many kids who were abused. It might be male victims underreported, who knows. But certainly with very young children or in cases of incest if it was a female mother doing the sexual abuse she was always clearly mentally ill. That didn't need to be true for male abusers.
These boys are slightly older but this new pattern of female abusers does surprise me. Perhaps we just didn't hear about it so much before?

[Maru Kitteh]

62. All the world is a horn dog baby

You were hoping for a different answer?

We make laws but you know how that goes. We get what we get and we try to deal with it all together.

[RagingInMiami]

64. Perhaps something is not right emotionally or mentally

But maybe prison is not the answer.

There is a difference between pedophiles, who are adults who lust and rape prepubescent children, and adults who lust after post-pubescent teenagers.

I'm a "hetero type" by the way.

[twenty4blackbirds]

67. Uk case some weeks ago

Youthful (20+) teacher brought to court, and was told by the judge to 'grow up' and abandon her childish fantasies. Don't know names, can't find the link. Saw it on Guardian Unlimited online. :shrug:

[rinsd]

70. Breeder?

C'mon I think we can dispense with the pejoratives while discussing the double standard of statutory raoe laws.

[Finder]

72. First of all, it is not pedophilia...

nor is it considered pathological for adults--male or female--to be attracted to the post pubescent. I don't agree with families giving their daughters away in marriage to old men nor would I want to see that done with sons but the statutory rape laws were meant to protect not stigmatize which is what this false outrage does to many people who engaged in consenting behavior. If the victim or their family do not want to press charges...the state has no right, IMO.