Dean must go!

[XemaSab]

All the way to the White House!

:woohoo:

[SofaKingLiberal]

1. lol

I concur.
:patriot:

[Crazy Guggenheim]

2. DAMN RIGHT!!!!! If they try to boot him he will!!

:woohoo:

[RoyGBiv]

3. That's evil ...

I had myself all worked up for a rant before I opened the thread. :-)

[Crazy Guggenheim]

4. The slogan should be "Let's get the real candidate this time!!"

[libodem]

5. Woo, you almost had me mad

for a minute.

[caledesi]

6. Always wanted Dean and still do. nt

[goclark]

46. He reminds me of Harry Truman

and I liked Harry Truman a lot.

[sasquatch]

7. At the very least he can prevent the DLC from rigging the caucases

I've heard rumors about what was happening in Iowa. He could keep the process clean and keep the non-fighting DLC Kerry like canidates from rigging the system so we get an actual canidate that is interested into taking power and throwing the BFEE out of power.

[MrBenchley]

47. How WERE the Iowa caucuses rigged, pray tell?

Or is this just more baseless innuendo from our "honorable," "ethical" progressives?

[sasquatch]

49. I heard rumors is all

I heard that at one location there was like 40 people and 35 of them went for Dean, 1 for Kerry, 2 for Edwards, 1 for Sharpton and 1 for Kucinich. Well the head of the group would announce that it was unanimous for Kerry because they were offered a prominent position in the Kerry campaign.

[Critters2]

53. I don't think that's true

I was in Iowa at the time. I was the only Deaniac in my caucus. I was precinct captain and had 3 other "committeds" for Dean who didn't show up for some reason, so I was the only one there. The amazing thing was how many Kerry supporters there were when we weren't really expecting that. Kerry had rallied veterans especially. His campaign had also already strted spouting the "Dean isn't electable" bs. That's what helped Kerry in my caucus.

It's hard to cheat in the caucuses. Unlike primaries, there aren't secret ballots. Decisions are made by a show of hands, and two people sign the form handed in at the end of the night with totals.

So, I don't think there was cheating. I just think the DNC and the DLC had already begun doing their best to kill the truly progressive candidates. And they did it well.

[WildEyedLiberal]

56. Thanks for being honest

I'm obviously not a Dean supporter re: the primaries, but thanks for being a Dean supporter adding a voice of reason to this whiny-assed sour grapes shit "Kerry stole the caucus away from the TRU WINNER." You may have been disappointed with the result, but it certainly was legitimate. A crazy explanation for Kerry's victory may just be that Iowans preferred John Kerry when they got to know him. Also, if you'll look at Kerry's record, you'll find that he IS truly progressive. But regardless - I respect your ability to not succumb to sour grapes.

[Lasher]

78. Remember Dean's 'scream speech'?

Dean was history after that. It was really a cheap shot, with a unidirectional mike used to separate Dean from the rest of the screaming crowd, leaving an impression that he was some kind of madman. The clip was played over and over by the corporate news media.

I wondered at the time if that was a calculated setup to ruin his chance to win the nomination, and I still do.

[MrBenchley]

86. I doubt that really changed that many Democrats' minds

For my part, I didn't support Dean because he was too right wing for my taste. I still wonder where the "Dean the leftist" meme that's commonly spouted here comes from.

[Lasher]

90. All things are relative

Dean certainly is farther to the left than those associated with the centrist DLC, who he has called "...the Republican wing of the Democratic party." His relationship with the DLC has helped to correctly convey an impression here at DU that Dean is farther to the left than most other viable candidates for the 2004 Democratic presidential nomination.

Throughout his campaign he positioned himself as a reformer of the Democratic party - the man who would bring the party back to its liberal roots.

In the end, Dean threatened a troika of powerful institutions. He was a threat to the political parties (because he attacked Democrats' centrist drift), to media (because he criticized their cowardly reporting) and to big business (because he would roll back chummy tax-benefits for corporations). All three institutions responded with venom and destroyed Dean's candidacy.

http://www.alternet.org/story/17881/

You say Dean is not far enough to the left to suit you, and I respect that. But to say that you don't understand how some folks here got the impression (the absolutely correct one, I say) that Dean is a leftist... Well, you seem to be an intelligent person, and I think you must surely have noticed how that occurred.

If Dean is not far enough to the left to suit you, who is? Maybe I could get behind such a candidate.

[MrBenchley]

91. Not even close to true....

Dean was certainly further to the right on many issues than folks like Gephardt, Kerry and Edwards, three of the candidates in 2004 who were members of the DLC.

"Throughout his campaign he positioned himself as a reformer of the Democratic party - the man who would bring the party back to its liberal roots."
And since few actually thought it had strayed far from its roots, that position brought forth a big yawn from many Democrats, especially Democrats who were aware of his actual record as Governor of Vermont.

"But to say that you don't understand how some folks here got the impression (the absolutely correct one, I say) that Dean is a leftist..."
Dean did lots of favors for IBM and other corporations in Vermont (here's Business Week describing him happily as a "Rockefeller Republican.")

http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/03_32/b3845084.htm

In 1995, Dean sided with Newt Gingrich, who was trying to push cuts in Scoial Security and Medicare thruogh.

"Campaigning in New Hampshire, Dr. Dean did not dispute that he had criticized Medicare and Social Security, but said he had never called for ending them."

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/09/13/politics/campaigns/13GEPH.html?ex=1134622800&en=c4606122dcf41dbe&ei=5070

(By the way, one would have had to be naive to the point of simplemindedness not to have realized in 1995 that what Gingrich was proposing was meant to be part of a larger campaign to destroy those programs.)

In Vermont, Dean called for civil liberties restrictions after 9/11, cut legal aid to the indigent (He once famously said, "95% of criminal defendants are guilty anyway.") and tried to turn down a Clinton-era grant to provide legalaid to the mentally disabled.

http://www.time.com/time/election2004/article/0,18471,535358,00.html

My preference in 2004 was always Kerry. For 2008 I'm leaning toward Hillary, I also like Clark (assuming he runs) and I hear good things about Warner. It's too soon for me to think about that yet.

[Lasher]

98. You make an interesting point or two...

although I think it's a little extreme for you to infer that my argument is not even close to true. I didn't know about Dean's past as Governor of Vermont, where he was criticized for being right-leaning.

I also didn't know about his past position on Medicare and Social Security. I might decide not to support him, based on this alone. You have inspired me to do some research on this.

Well, I've learned something today, thanks.

But I don't understand your approval of Kerry, Edwards and Hillary, who are all members of the DLC. The expressed goal of the DLC is to take the Democratic party from the left to the center. In other words, they want us all to move to the right. For this reason, I don't consider them to the left of Dean, who is openly critical of the DLC for their move to the right.

[NYCGirl]

93. Actually, Dean never called the DLC "the Republican wing of the Democratic

party," as you say. He made a famous speech to them in which he used Wellstone's line, "I'm from the Democratic wing of the Democratic party," which was not about policy, but willingness to speak out against the GOP. The leftist meme was primarily pushed by the Republicans.

[Lasher]

94. Actually, he said both

So the DLC, which Dean has taken to calling "the Republican wing of the Democratic Party," is doing what it can to detour Dean's march to the White House.

http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0105-07.htm

Three weeks ago, Dean dismissed the Democratic Leadership Council as "the Republican wing of the Democratic Party."

http://www.pos.org/platform/file_retrieve.cfm?ID=483

More recently, candidate Howard Dean’s criticism that the DLC and its “New Democratic agenda” constituted “the Republican wing of the Democratic Party” highlighted long-running tensions between the party’s center-left and center-right.

http://rightweb.irc-online.org/org/demleadcoun.php

"ven the Democratic Leadership Council, which is sort of the Republican part of the Democratic Party … the Republican wing of the Democratic Party, we're going to need them too, we really are," Dean said.

http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com/archives/999.html

[NYCGirl]

96. I hadn't heard that, but I still contend it has nothing to do with policy,

only with acting like an opposition party. Too many think it means "moving left."

[XemaSab]

97. I was there! I was there!

:bounce:

[Lasher]

99. I'll bet that was a fun time!

[XemaSab]

100. It really was!

:bounce:

(except for the whole, you know, not-coming-in-first part, and then having your candidate slandered relentlessly. those parts were sort of weak)

[FreedomAngel82]

79. I watched the Iowa dinner on cspan archives

and when they showed the polls while introducing everyone Kerry was winning with 60% and Dean not far away behind him. When did all of the Dean scream stuff happen? I think Dean is perfect for the chairmanship job personally.

[MrBenchley]

85. If it were true....

It certainly would be shameful that the Dean supporters just shut up and took it and didn't raise a stink, wouldn't it?

I've never heard any suggestion that there was anything unfair about the Iowa caucus.

[MrBenchley]

84. In other words, the Iowa caucus wasn't rigged

Thanks for playing, though.

[WildEyedLiberal]

55. You can't rig a goddamn caucus, Jesus

:eyes: Do you even know how caucuses work?

BTW, the DLC had their candidate. His name was Joe Lieberman. His performance tells you all you need to know about the real world viability of the DLC.

[MrBenchley]

87. Wasn't that an amazingly fact-free assertion?

Actually, a number of candidates were members of the DLC, including Edwards, Gephardt and Kerry. Gephardt, in fact, was the first-ever chairperson of the DLC.

[kster]

8. Check this out

http://www.canofun.com/blog/videos/bevharristopica.wmv

[Nothing Without Hope]

71. This is the classic TV clip where Bev Harris shows Howard Dean how to

hack into a central vote tabulator in under 2 minutes and change the vote. So great to finally get a link to the video clip. But in two runs, the video file stopped shortly before the end, just when Howard was flipping the vote for himself and Lex Luthor. Anybody got another link to this file? I'd love to see the whole thing, but even this much is great.

This was before the 2004 election. We've heard too damn little from the Dem leadership about electronic vote fraud since then, despite the GAO report that confirmed many of the contentions made about the fraud in the Ohio presidential election.

If electronic vote fraud is not addressed, then goodbye democracy - or rather, since democracy is already gone, goodbye to any hope of regaining democracy in the forseeable future.

I would be pleased to see Howard Dean as a candidate. Others I'd like to see are Wes Clark, Dennis Kucinich, Barbara Boxer, and John Conyers Jr. OK, I can dream, can't I? But a Dean/Clark ticket sounds good.

[kster]

77. Why Dean / Clark?

We just both watched the same video,Dean hacked the vote himself in person,and to this date remains silent about it?

Dean leads the DNC, and still remains silent on election fraud, Help me out here please, what are you seeing that I am not? that makes you believe Dean (after you got done watching this video) would be a good Democratic President.

[FreedomAngel82]

81. Good point

I remember that video now and saw it. So why hasn't he done anything about the machines? He knows how they are. I don't get it either. :\

[FreedomAngel82]

80. Sorry I don't trust Harris

She claimed she had some type of tapes of proof but never saw anything.

[nolabels]

9. Go Dean, go!!!!!!!!!!! Go Dean, go!!!!!!!!!!! Go Dean, go!!!!!!!!!!!

Go Dean, go!!!!!!!!!!! Go Dean, go!!!!!!!!!!! Go Dean, go!!!!!!!!!!!

(Heck this could even be fun :woohoo:)

Go Dean, go!!!!!!!!!!! Go Dean, go!!!!!!!!!!! Go Dean, go!!!!!!!!!!!

[kster]

10. Kick-n-Recommend..nt

[Crazy Guggenheim]

11. K & R.

[SammyBlue]

12. Dude, I was aboutto flame you are. . .nice save.

I agree, with Janet Napolitano as his running mate.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

21. Or clarke or Murtha

[Dr.Phool]

13. Fuckin' A right.

[shance]

14. Absolutely****

n/t

[rpannier]

15. I was about to flip out on you

Nice lead though. I think you caught everyone by surprise.

[SammyWinstonJack]

26. Caught me!

:rofl:

[Peter Frank]

16. Dean sounds radical...

...but what he's responding to is the most radical and morally depraved administration in our history.

He knows about PNAC, Reverend Moon, the alternative government agencies et al. He also knows that there's no discussion if no one speaks out.

He knows that moderate Republicans have had just about enough of this hypocritical regime. Dean knows that McCain is determined to rid the GOP of its hypocrisy (somewhat due to the fact that most leading Dems kowtow in some way to Bush). Dean has the courage to say what some Dems think is un-say-able.

Remember that Nixon's critics were called traitors as well. After Nixon fell, they became visionaries. :)




edit - sp

[FreedomAngel82]

82. And he's been right about other stuff too in the past

He just seems to know.

[Wetzelbill]

17. I believe I pioneered this same technique

I started doing it a few years ago when my posts would drop flies without anybody even replying. Now I have taken it even further by making the most absurd satirical posts ever, such as: "I am so sick of Howard Dean" and then I proceed to talk about how Dean shot my dog, a dog that I don't have, etc, lol. I have become a caricature of myself. :)

Nice post though. Excellent skills.

The best is when you get those who only read the subject line and are so pissed they decide to fire off an angry reply at you. It's great. :)

[Swamp Rat]

18. Geaux Dean!!!

:patriot:

[Hissyspit]

19. I thought it was bathroom humor...

:hurts:

I must go, too. I'll be back in a minute.

Oh, and I would like to see Dean as President, too. Still a Clark supporter, as well.

[northerdar]

20. Dean - Man who speaks Truth

I would love to see him go all the way to the White House.

[LWolf]

22. No, thanks.

Let's leave the doctor right where he is, and see if he can heal the party.

[Dawgs]

23. No Thanks!!

Hillary/Dean/Kerry running is exactly what the Republicans want to happen. I like Dean, but he is "been there done that" for too many people.

[iconoclastNYC]

32. They said that about Saint Ronnie too. N/T

[WI_DEM]

43. he ran only once

Reagan ran in '68, and '76 and finally was nominated in '80.

[Peace Patriot]

24. I recommended this topic, and agree! Recently, I've been thinking that

Gore/Kerry would be a magical ticket. Poetic justice! The two men who were unlawfully deprived of the White House, running together. I think the American people would love it! And I think Gore is a man on fire. His speeches last year were amazing! He nailed the Bush Cartel in every way. I was very impressed. And I think Kerry could be brought along as a true representative of the people under Gore's influence (and given Kerry's youthful inclination to truth and justice, decent liberal record and BCII investigatory courage and experience).

But Dean would also be "poetic justice." He was also deprived of the White House by foul means--by manipulations of the war profiteering corporate news monopolies, and the War Democrats. I'm pretty sure that the main reason his campaign was destroyed was his strong stance against the Iraq War, with additional reasons being his outsider status regarding the looting of our country by military contractors (he would have cleaned house in DC and in the Dem Party), and his statement, just before they did him in, that he would bust up the corporate news monopolies. (That seemed like the trigger, but I think it was just one more reason to kill Dean's campaign).

I would most certainly support a Dean campaign, or that of anyone with his principles and belief in democracy who has a chance of winning.

But I think people should be aware that NO antiwar candidate or true populist will be permitted to reach the White House. I've lived through too long a history of antiwar populists being assassinated, or sabotaged by war interests. Winning these days has nothing to do with representing the will of the people and the public good. The first criteria for "selection" by our corporate rulers is that you be pro-war and of course pro-big military budgets, with pro-global corporate predation ("free trade," or, more accurate, "free piracy") being a close second. Once those criteria have been satisfied, then they "select" which of the two 'choices' they've given us of pro-war, pro-corporate candidates best suits the fascist agenda. It may be that a War Democrat will be "selected" and then Diebolded into office. I think this is likely, actually, in '08. They need someone who can get a military Draft (Bush can't do it), and to begin taking some of the rap for Bush's financial and foreign policy disasters, to handle (and take the rap for) domestic unrest, and also to maintain a huge US military presence in the Middle East for pork-barrel purposes (to drain us of our last dollar) and to be ready for the "Gulf of Tonkin" type incident that will widen the war into Iran and Syria (to get more control over the last oil reserves).

I am not being cynical or sarcastic. I am being realistic. We must fight for our beliefs and for our democracy, but we must realize--and surely anyone with historical perspective who knows the facts about 2004 realizes--that this country is being prepared for overt fascist rule, Nazi-style, and that we have very little time left to prevent it. My guess is that the War Democrat will barely last four years. WE will rebel, and our rebellion will be one of the things used to destroy that administration. Huge antiwar protests, food riots, veterans' protests, great civil unrest of many kinds will likely occur. And the War Dem's meagerest sops to the poor--or efforts at world peace (if there are any)--will be met with universal derision by the war profiteering corporate news monopolies, who will heap every kind of irrational scorn on the War Dem, including inventing scandals out of whole cloth, as they did with Bill Clinton. And all of this will be preparatory to installation of the real Nazi (possibly Jeb) in '12.

That's the likely scenario, in my opinion. We have no more control over who our candidate will be in '08, and who will "win," than we do over how our votes are 'tabulated'--that is, we have no control over it.

I see one good chance of preventing this scenario, and that is election reform. Even a War Dem has to pay at least lip service to progressive values such as honest, transparent elections. We might be able to get election reform quickly, on a national scale, early in the War Dem administration, and thus begin to influence policy (and protect election reform gains) as real representatives of the people start to get elected (in the 2010 by-elections)--and also, thus to prevent another Bush Cartel coup. (They can't "win" without rigged elections.)

Currently, two Bushite corporations--Diebold and ES&S--are 'tabulating' all our votes with "TRADE SECRET," PROPRIETARY software and firmware, and with virtually no audit/recount controls. Further, in 2004, the war profiteering corporate news monopolies DOCTORED their independent exit polls--put FALSE NUMBERS on everybody's TV screens, late on election day--after shutting down the reporting system for some hours with a so-called "computer glitch, and forcing their exit poll numbers (Kerry won) to "fit" the "results" of Diebold's and ES&S's secret formulae (Bush won). They thus deprived the American people of strong evidence of election fraud, and squelched protests and calls for investigation. (This was not the normal adjustment of the exit polls for election demographics. This was a LIE, a DOCTORED poll, which included in the "adjustment" factors such as a 100% turnout for Bush of Bush 2000 voters--an impossibility, since some percentage of those voters had died in the meantime. See www.TruthIsAll.net.)

This is what I mean by realism. REALISTICALLY, we have NO IDEA how our votes are being tabulated, and major donors to Bush and to rightwing causes are in control of it. It is SECRET. Non-transparent. Unaccountable. And we no longer have a Fourth Estate to speak of (except on the internet, and alternative sources like Air America). The news monopolies are not just propagandists for the war and for the rich, they are positively COLLUSIVE in destroying our democracy.

What chance does a real populist, especially an antiwar populist, have in these circumstances? Virtually none. They will be Diebolded in the primaries.

And even the hope that the election fraud can be overcome by sheer numbers (a hope I developed by analyzing what they did--what the constraints on the fraudsters may have been--in the 2004 election) seems somewhat dashed by the recent results on the four Ohio ELECTION REFORM initiatives. Predicted to win by 60/40 votes. Flipped over to 60/40 LOSSES on election day!--the most audacious flipover we've seen yet, and conducted with total impunity. Ohio may be a special case of Republican corruption and crime, as compared to other states, but I do believe that they are testing out the mechanisms of full-on tyranny there, to be used on the rest of us later.

See Bob Koehler's article on the Ohio initiatives:
http://www.tmsfeatures.com/tmsfeatures/subcategory.jsp?custid=67&catid=1824

We have a couple of other opportunities to save our democracy. 1. Most states are not yet as bad as Ohio, so "sheer numbers" get-out-the-vote campaigns may be able to overcome the fraud in some places. 2. There are many local election reform movements, working to obtain election verification tools of various kinds, such as backup paper ballots (real ballots to compare the electronic results to); power over election systems still resides at the state/local level, where ordinary people have more potential influence (then we do in DC). 3. Russ Holt's bill HR 550, which will stop the corporate privatization of our elections in its tracks, and reverse it (with changes mandated for '06); possibly a weakened Bushite party has created conditions for it to be passed; sign the petition at http://www.rushholt.com/petition.html. Or...

4. The American people will get fed up, sooner rather than later, catch the Revolutionary spirit of Samuel Adams and Tom Paine, and THROW DIEBOLD AND ES&S ELECTION THEFT MACHINES INTO 'BOSTON HARBOR' NOW!

That can always happen.

-----------------------------

Information:

For the recent GAO report on the horrendous insecurity of our election system in 2004:
access to pdf: http://www.gao.gov/docsearch/abstract.php?rptno=GAO-05-956
text only: http://www.gao.gov/htext/d05956.html

For an easy to read pamphlet on the perils of electronic voting ("MythBreakers"). (One of the myths is that HAVA mandated electronic voting; it did NOT; citizens and election officials still have a choice!)
www.votersunite.org

For a project for statistical monitoring and challenges of elections in '06 and '08:
www.UScountvotes.org

For more info: www.verifiedvoting.org

-----------------------------

Note: Our Democratic leadership has been VERY bad on this issue. Essentially, they permitted Bushite corporations to gain control of the counting of our votes, with TRADE SECRET programming. Where was their outrage? Where were their warnings to voters? Where is their activism to change this unbelievably bad corruption of our election system? Are they INSANE? There are still some good Dems. Holt, for instance. And Dean himself. Boxer. Conyers. We know who they are. SUPPORT them on this FIRST PRIORITY issue! And PRESSURE the others--federal, state and local Dems who are corrupt, collusive or oblivious. (And people like Connie McCormack, the Dem head of Los Angeles elections, who supports Diebold, and led the campaign to get rid of our anti-Diebold Sec of State Kevin Shelly, should be fired!) One of the things we need in '06 and '08 are INDEPENDENT EXIT POLLS (independent of the news monopolies). Pressure Dean and others for Dem funding of independent exit polls.

[Peace Patriot]

25. P.S. to the poster, XemaSab! Yup, you got me, friend! LOL, as they say. nt

[niallmac]

27. I have taken the time to read you post thoroughly

avoiding my habit of skimming and missing the finer points and I have to say that I agree completely.
:toast:

[Zomby Woof]

28. No chance in hell

The voters made it clear they do not like the huckster Dean, and they do not want him to ever be president.

It is bad enough he was forced on the rest of us as chair of the DNC - but I'll take it as a bribe that we hope conveys the message: "Please stay right where you are."

I hope he doesn't stay there for long. His 'leadership' of the party is just more foot-in-mouth pronouncements of great embarrassment and of little benefit.

[XemaSab]

31. Good morning Zomby!

We will have to agree to disagree! :hi: :pals:

[iconoclastNYC]

33. If foot an mouth statements were the death knell of any party

The GOP would be half destroyed by BUSH.

Puleeze....the only people who think he fucked up are the fox news crowd.

[Cha]

62. Yeah, the ones who get

sucked in by rw talking points.

[LSK]

37. regarding his foot-in-mouth pronouncements

Im still waiting for one that isnt true! :hi:

[mike_c]

51. lol-- too bad they keep turning out to be true....

Dean speaks for me!

[Critters2]

54. The DLC and DNC let us know what they think

and kept the voters from ever having the opportunity. What is it about democracy that scares the DLC?

[sonias]

29. Caught me

I was ready to rumble.

Sonia

[StClone]

30. Go! Go! Go!

Go Dean! Go Dean! Best they can do is Swiftboat him...all knowing and always there Dean scares the hell out of Righties.

[GreenPartyVoter]

34. Ha! I knew the thread title and poster name were in conflict with each

other! :D

[MrBenchley]

35. He can't be chairman AND candidate, woo woo...

And last time Democrats got offered Dean as a candidate, he finished no better than third in any primary except Vermont's....

[ItsTheMediaStupid]

38. He'd have cleaned W's clock in a general election

He speaks the truth and people find it refreshing.

The foot-in-mouth routine is a RW talking point.

[MrBenchley]

45. And if he had wings and a beak he'd be a helluva parakeet

"He speaks the truth and people find it refreshing."
Not refreshing enough to actually vote for him in a Democratic primary, however.

[McLuhan]

63. Mr. Benchley,

I see that you do have a quick wit; albeit somewhat sarcastic,eh .:>)

[MrBenchley]

88. Busted!

I've always been amused by this sort of "if only" speculation....

[ItsTheMediaStupid]

68. Republican dirty tricks and very negative media treatment

These items made it hard to win, especially when the fraud of Iraq wasn't as clear as it is now.

[MrBenchley]

89. Dean only set SOME Democratic voters on fire....

Other Democrats had their own preferences. He got the webheads cranked up, and he had some supporters, but in general he was to the right of Kerry and did not have Kerry's name recognition.

Ironically for many here, Dean drew a favorable reception from the business community; while Governor of Vermont he'd cut special deals for IBM and other corporations.

[bklyncowgirl]

41. Actually, Dean was second in New Hampshire

Admittedly not a win but not third either.

http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004/primaries/pages/states/NH/

[MrBenchley]

44. I stand corrected...thanks.

[jsamuel]

36. hehe, nice

[mattclearing]

39. Nice fakeout thread title.

:)

[Individualist]

40. I second that emotion nt

[MsAnthropy]

42. Absolutely!

[ananda]

48. OK, you got me. lol

Damstraight.

I would love to see Howard Dean in the White House.

I don't think he'll run, though.

He's still doing a lot of good.

[mike_c]

50. yeppers....

:hi:

[XemaSab]

58. Hi Mike!

:hi:

[MODemocrat]

52. Yes, I agree he should be in the White House

We would have the real deal then. He would be another Harry Truman - give them hell, and make them love it.:bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:

[WildEyedLiberal]

57. I don't think you should encourage him to break his promise

He promised upon accepting DNC chairmanship that he would not run in '08 to concentrate on building the party's grassroots. I certainly hope you're not implying that he should break his promise, which would be awfully shady of him to do.

[XemaSab]

67. 2012!!!!

:woohoo:

[WildEyedLiberal]

73. Hey! That implies Republican victory in '08!

At least say 2016. ;)

[XemaSab]

76. 2016!!!!

:bounce:

Unless, of course, we put Carter back up in 2008. :D

[LaurenG]

59. I really love Howard

I would love it if that were to happen. No one comes close to him and I love his to the point "corrections".

[sellitman]

60. His was the first campaign I ever sent large sums of $$ to.

Large for me that is. I was crushed when Kerry won the Primary. I'd love for him to get another chance

[mtnsnake]

61. I love what Dean does & says 99% of the time. It's that other 1% that

worries me.

[Pharaoh]

64. YES YES YES!

They've nuetered him at the DNC............:mad:

:dem: :dem: :dem:

[Mr_Spock]

65. Ya made me click

:D

[Straight Shooter]

66. And you should be his press secretary.

You've got a way with the "gotcha" technique. :D

[autorank]

69. Get him away from that DNC culture. Straight talk from" the Democratic

wing of the Democratici party" (never forget that line).

Speak the truth loudly Gov. Dean!

[Michigander4Dean]

70. You son of a gun!

:-)

[jarnocan]

72. LOVE this!!!

I just hope he keeps on doing whatever works!
Happy Hopeful Holidays!

[nicknameless]

74. The question is: From which position can he best clean up the mess?

As head of the DNC, if he'd speak up like he used to, specifically on the issue of election fraud, he's the best we've got.
As President, how much could he accomplish, if the Dem party is still being robbed by voting machines across the country?
Would MSM and the DLC even let him get close to winning? Many dirty tricks were pulled last time.
Most important question: Can he be cloned?

[psychopomp]

75. Yay! Another WHITE MAN!!

On second thought, no.

[ghostsofgiants]

83. YAAARGH!!!

:P

[madokie]

92. You were about to get my dander up there for a sec.

[yurbud]

95. anybody who discomfits the DLC like he does is doing something right