I have a really difficult (hypothetical) situation to ponder

[WindRavenX]

My SO and I were discussing the following situation:

Online, a group of teenagers posing as a women began to talk on a rape fantasty chat. The teenagers talked with, and arranged a rape fantasy session with a man.

The teenagers gave a false address.

The man goes to the house, and rapes the woman that he thought was an arranged session.

I don't know how to think about this...

[housewolf]

1. No means No

Should be an imperative teaching in every household. To act otherwards is to an abuse of power, whether the parties involved think that they are playing or not.

[WindRavenX]

2. here's the thing

In many rape fantasies and other dominating sex play, there is a safety word that signifies "no". Until that word is said, then it's not "no" in that context of sex play.

The man didn't hear the safety word because in these sex fantasies, there often is an agreement with the partners that unless that safety word is said...it continues.

[housewolf]

5. If I were on a jury...

I don't think I'd find that a compelling argument, although I acknowledge the complexity of the issue.

[darkmaestro019]

6. exactly : )

mine with my SO is "wait" for indescribable inside-joke sorts of reasons, and to preserve the lovely sense that I STILL don't get to say "no" i get to say, not right now, basically. and we can cuddle and talk and such, and work out what has wigged me out and whether or not the game should continue. and it IS a game. he would never, ever hurt me or do anything to me against my will, and i know that--that's the OTHER reason why this is fun, because I know I can safely GIVE UP my, autonomy, whatever, to this person, and not have it used against me later or end up really-really hurting me.

it makes me warm-fuzzy-happy to use a great many other variations on no, don't, and have them ignored. if he listened to "no" when I said it I'd be a tantrum throwing unhappy creature indeed. but we were together for many many months before the trust level for this was reached; to each his or her own, i suppose.

Dan Savage described this sort of game as "cops and robbers for grownups" or something along those lines once, and that's exactly it and exactly so. : )

but this hypothetical situation, as scary as it is, is not entirely outside the bounds of my imagination, based on the way i've seen people act. it seems our current culture is almost designed to give NO sense of decency or sympathy for others, no sense of anything to lose to people only a little younger than myself. i wish i knew how to combat that.

[khashka]

3. Very hypothetical

Here's how to think about it....


He thinks it's a consensual "non-consensual" deal.
She has been raped. Truly.


Is he to blame? Yes! I'm coming from an S/m point of view. You discuss it. And discuss it. In person. You establish safewords, make sure the other person really wants what they say. If at any time it seems they aren't into it - you back the hell off!

Have I always followed these rules? No. But only with people whom I have learned to understand or who understand me. It's implicit.

There are rules of behaviour amongst civilized people. Respect for another person's integrity. My sexuality is often very extreme, but I'd never accept a partner I hadn't sat down face-to-face and talked with. Even getting past the mistaken identity thang - some people just don't know what they are letting themselves in for. Before you do anything you better be damn sure they are fully informed and know what is likely to take place. And be willing to drop it if they aren't having fun.


Khash.

[WindRavenX]

4. absolutely

This should be the norm of how people do this--communicate.

But there ARE people who really do like rape fantasies to the point where part of the thrill is skipping the communication part...

Thank you for your comment.

[khashka]

9. The best thing the S/m community gave the world is

negotiated consent.

Sure, I have rape fantasies that don't involve communication (I'm usually the victim, not the perp.)

But that's the difference between a mature sexuality and simple self-gratification. Understanding the difference between fantasy and reality. Respecting your partner as a real human being with real feelings. It's simply having sex responsibly - if you can't do that, then you've got no business doing it at all.

Khash.

[JDPriestly]

7. If this could be considered a conspiracy to commit rape,

and I'm not sure about it but it is a possibility that it could be considered a conspiracy to commit rape, depending on a number of factors, local law, etc., the teenagers might be in big trouble.

[WindRavenX]

8. the teenagers should be

I just don't know who I'd seek charges again, and what charges.

This...is very hard to think about.

[Crunchy Frog]

10. Throw his ass in prison.

If you're going to be engaging in rape fantasy, you'd better be damn sure that you know the person you're doing it with, and that they really are agreeing to it. Arranging something with anonymous posters on message boards is a recipe for disaster. In any event, rape is rape, even if you thought it was consensual.

[neuvocat]

11. This isn't a tree in the forest.

He doesn't have consent regardless of whether he thinks he does or not. His perception of reality doesn't alter the fact that a crime is committed. It is no different if he went and killed her under false pretenses: the cops will arrest him all the same once he has been caught.

[Raydawg1234]

12. Im sorry but this thread just makes no sense

[WindRavenX]

13. howso?

This hypothetical situation has occured in some forms...

[Raydawg1234]

14. i guess it just seemed very far fetched

[WindRavenX]

15. it is, but, as I said...

...some elements have actually occured. Which is scary, to say the least.