Should Congress enact a military draft?

[goobergunch]

I'm not happy that I feel the need to post this poll. However, I would like to see DU general opinion on this.

This poll assumes that the rich can find loopholes, etc. I find the probability of a no-exemption draft so slight that it's not worth adding to the poll.

[JohnKleeb]

1. No

A draft will make our generation less hawkish Goob though but I dont care.

[LalahLand]

2. Rich people will ALWAYS have an advantage

Or some loophole that allows them to get out of duty.

So no, the draft should not be reenacted, as it will only affect the poor.

[mermaid]

59. Yep

"Politicians hide themselves away
They only started the war
Why should they go out to fight
They leave that all to the poor, yeah!"
-"War Pigs" by Black Sabbath

[Touchdown]

3. I'm torn.

First off, I would have to say no to the draft on principle. If this military adventure Chimpy got us into is going bad, I don't want him to have more troops and do the same thing to Syria, and putting still more (this time who didn't have a choice) in danger.

However, if a draft occurs on his watch. Look out. We'd have a flood of 18-25 year olds registering to vote the bastard out of office...and they say that the Gen Y'ers are almost as numerous as the boomers! Chimpy's numbers will go south with amazing speed!

[eileen_d]

5. Yes, not to mention

the parents of the 18-25 year olds for whom the war would suddenly become much more real than CNN. Bush would be "in trouble" with them too. So I agree that the draft would potentially wake up a whole lot of people to the realities of war.

But that would only be a secondary effect - the primary effect would be to provide more soldiers for more invasions, thereby causing more deaths (on both "sides")

Basically, I'm saying the same thing as you, and maybe not even as well. ;) I voted undecided, but really it's 75% no.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

4. Only if they want a revolution...

...it may not take place right away, but the draft would be one of the final straws placed on the backs of the American middle class and poor.

[LittleApple81]

6. I am totally biased for no. I have a son in 12th grade. n/t

[JohnKleeb]

7. and I am in 11th, cant be even if they reinstate due to a heart problem

but still.

[Nay]

16. Also totally biased for "no" -- 20-yr-old son.

There is no way I'd let this kid die for these craven, draft-dodging bastards, even if I knew it would wake up the idiots. And the rich kids always have an out.

[mermaid]

60. You can get an out, too...

Tell your son to tell the recruiters he's gay!
Hell, have your son show up for the draft call wearing a dress!

THAT'LL get him outta it!!

[Media_Lies_Daily]

8. Maybe it would help people to know that draft legislation is sitting in...

...committee in both the House and Senate. The legislation calls for a UNIVERSAL draft for BOTH MALES AND FEMALES, with NO EXEMPTIONS.

Of course, the children of the wealthy will find some way to avoid serving, or serving in some capacity that will keep them far from potential harm.

[goobergunch]

21. That won't pass in its current form IMHO (n/t)

[fknobbit]

9. Why draft

When they can maim reserves on the cheap, and put mercs from other countrys in uniform, at crap for pay and betrayal on promised benefits?

[niyad]

10. NO draft-- I, too, am opposed to the draft on principal, because

what it states is that whatever reason the administration has given for going to war is not universally accepted. If you have to draft people to fight, they don't agree with the reason. If people see a reason ( as in WWII) the draft isn't necessary.

anybody remember the movie, "what if they gave a war and nobody came"??

[MuseRider]

11. NO!

I do not believe in it for a bunch of reasons but the main reason is quite selfish. In two months both of my sons will be draft age.

[lancemurdoch]

12. a worldwide question

This is a question the left has struggled with worldwide. You'd think the answer would be they are against the draft, but many on the left want to see all Americans, rich and poor, affected by the draft.

I agree with you that the rich will always find loopholes, they've been finding them since the Civil War ($300 to get out of it). If all loopholes were closed they'd just send their eligible sons to Europe or whatnot if they saw a war possibly coming.

Of course, you could never force say the wealthiest 1% of Americans into a war. This is obvious. I think the question is how high can you keep the threshold. I mean, during Vietnam all you had to be able to do is afford college. If you can ensure that everyone below say 5% had to go, that's still a very powerful constiuency that will be drafted.

I don't think the answer is obvious either way.

[radwriter0555]

13. YES. I think that this should be an equal opportunity slaughter and

exploitation.

Let's take the kids who's folks CAN afford college, and who ARE NOT likely to join up.

Let's take kids in from all walks of life and then we'll really know who supports this 'war', won't we?

SUPPORT the draft to expose the truth.

[ComerPerro]

32. You are dreaming

I don't think anyone who supported this to begin with will have to go fight. They will find a way out.

If the US needs more soldiers (cannon fodder, as far as Bush is concerned), then this is what they should do.

1. Force all male College Republicans to enlist.
2. Force anyone male between 18-28 who is seen "protesting" with a "support the troops" sign or something like it to enlist.
3. Do the same for the children of all FReepers who are within the age guidelines.
4. All male children in the acceptable age groups of families who have given more than $5,000 to Bush will be required to enlist.


I think they will have all the troops they need.

If these fascist assholes really believed in the cause the way they claimed they do, then they can go fight or send their sons.
Screw them, because if they have the nerve to call me a terrorist for not supporting this bullshit, then I have the right to call them cowardly for not putting their money where there mouth is.

[Piperay]

40. Yeah, I agree

and I would like to recommend as one of the first draftees my cousin's college bound son who both (mother & son) are supporters of chimp and his war.

[MrPrax]

14. Scary thread...

Folks here are debating this or 'thoughtfully' reflecting on this as an issue...

I don't think the Draft is even popular among the GOP types, so why even discuss it other than build a 'debate' for it

[goobergunch]

22. Yeah

I'm frankly suprised at the number of "YES" votes.

:shrug:

[The Backlash Cometh]

15. I've said it once, I'll say it again:

We don't trust the results of our own presidential elections, how does anybody expect us to trust the results of a draft in this country where the rich and/or powerful can always find ways to escape the consequences? This is not worth risking the life of my son.

War is an indication of diplomatic failure, so let's elect competent politicians.

[Solly Mack]

17. NO NO NO NO

I don't want anyone to live the nightmare I'm living.

[niyad]

18. (((((solly))))-- any word yet?

[Solly Mack]

19. Not yet other than we've sent more soldiers to Karbala

over the last 2 days. Nearly half our company-which means they expect it to get worse.

Still haven't heard from my husband yet but that's "normal"
with the phone situation there.

:hug:

[niyad]

28. that is awful to hear. please know that our thoughts

and prayers continue to be with all of you, and please let us know when you hear something. you all remain in my thoughts, and hugs are available as needed

[CoffeePlease1947]

29. Sorry to hear that Solly

I hope you hear good news from your husband soon.

Mike

[AntiCoup2K4]

20. Only if it's the Charlie Rangel version, with no loopholes.....

Send Jenna & Babsie, and a few other Repuke kids over to Iraq and see how long it takes for Junior and the spineless congress to rethink their war plans.

[ComerPerro]

34. No, I still don't like that, for two reasons

Yeah, send the kids of the rich over there. So what? They will survive, because they will never be put in harm's way. They will instead be promoted as selfless heroes on the Television while hundereds of innocent kids die.
Also, if the Rangel version passes, no one will stop and think, "Gee, this has really opened my eyes. Bush and his war are bad things." Instead, they will be outraged about the draft, and the Republicans will be right there to tell them that it was proposed by Democrats.

[Darranar]

23. NO!

NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO!

DON'T SEND OUR NATION'S YOUTH OVERSEAS TO FIGHT FOR CORPORATE INTERESTS!

[IndianaGreen]

24. Nyet!

Why provide more canon fodder to the PNAC boys?

[sweetheart]

25. what method of selection?

If the draft took people who voted for the party declaring war, it would be more appropriate.

There should be no draft because there should be no wars, as it is in iraq, the draft is just a death lottery foisted on the common folk by stupid cowardly slave masters.

[NicFed]

26. We Need A Draft

As a retired military officer whose politics is slightly left of center - our military is dominated by politically "right" views. The draft disappeared in 1973. Senior officers with progressive viewpoints are retired or marginalized. Our academies are leaning further to the right every every year. On the ground in Iraq and here in America our military/industrial complex is learning the "art" of large scale urban pacification and surveillance. Using our military this way is not in our national interest. If we continue the trend of isolating the military from our greater society, we'll run the risk of a future military coup d'etat. The draft is in our best national interest.

[CoffeePlease1947]

27. I am totally for the draft. Here is why:

First, if all these people REALLY believe that this war is worth fighting for they should go over there and put their ass on the line like everyone else that is over there that forced to be there.

Second, it will show more Americans what bulshit the war really is as all their sons and daughters write home.

Third, it would sure up Bush's defeat in 2004 because his lies would be better exposed.

Fourth, all the rich kids that get out of it would be shown for their hypocrisy and stupidity. It would prevent them from having a political career.

Fifth, the rich kids that do go would have parents that worry as much as the poor.

Sixth, it would allow the soldiers more time off and you could rotate people in and out.

Mike

[lovedems]

30. I would not be willing to sacrifice my children or anybody's else's

children to show this is bullshit or to ensure Bush's defeat. I THINK (hope) we can do that without the draft. I don't want to criticize what you are saying because you are probably right, all of those things would happen if we reinstated the draft, when it comes to my kids though, that is just to much sacrifice for me. They are all to young to be drafted now but the mere thought of it send chills down my spine.

[LittleApple81]

31. Drafting people to awake the country... letting kids be killed to

awake the country... NO!!!!!!
Let's bring the ones there home.
Yes, it is a volunteer army but I think they promised to "defend the USA." The USA was not being attacked by Iraq. Therefore, they have no duty to serve LIES.
The majority of the people that have gone to the army were searching for opportunities to improve their lives because of poverty or other economic/social constraints. I am sure they are willing to fulfill their promise to serve their country but THAT IS NOT WHAT THEY ARE DOING NOW.

[ComerPerro]

33. That is the main problem

This "protecting our freedoms" bullshit has got to stop. I am tired of hearing it. The military action right now is actually doing more to threaten our freedom than it is to protect it.

[lovedems]

35. Right,

You don't sacrifice kids to prove that a bad war is a bad war. I wonder how many kids out there are second guessing enrollment today? Are recruitment numbers down or up? I am curious because they went up after 9/11 didn't they? I would be interested to know after this war with Iraq if they have gone down.

BTW, my uncle at one point was a career military man who has a son who is 17 and he will not let him join any branch under this administration.

[welshTerrier2]

36. PNAC Slaves

the goal for some who advocate a draft is to "level the playing field" ... let's eliminate all the loopholes and make the children of the wealthy serve right along side average GI Joe's ...

admirable goal ... and, without question there's some merit to the argument that more americans would oppose war if someone close to them could be conscripted to serve ...

the problem with a draft, however, is that draftees could become free raw materials for the military-industrial complex ... while the playing field might become more level, and i doubt it would, millions would be required to put their lives on the line to serve the corporate masters ...

if we had a government that valued human life above money, perhaps the benefits would outweigh the costs ... but we don't ... let's not make PNAC slaves out of more americans by instituting a draft ...

[Resistance Is Futile]

37. Yes. Absolutely.

An immediate restoration of the draft would destroy Chimpy's reelection chances overnight.

[VermontDem2004]

58. what if the draft was introduced by a democrat

I wish Goobergunch would've noted in his original posted that put whoever reinstats the draft aside, do you support the idea that the government can randomly select men to send them over to a foreign country to fight without their permission. I would say no.

[Malva Zebrina]

38. Really sorry to say this but if Bush wants a draft he will get it

without as much as a wimper. Why do I sound so cynical and bitter? Because for three years that has been the case--exactly. If he says there must be a draft--he will get it--can't afford to look like you do not support the troops--etc. etc. and any other self serving poor excuse for pandering to the opposition party and their idiot in chief.

[JVS]

42. My suspicions go even deeper

I think that unless we elect a Democrat who is clearly against the war, we will see this occupation drag on and may even see a draft. Kind of how it was OK for Nixon to go to China, a Democratic president could continue an occupation without gettng much guff from those left of center. We need a president with the courage to end this occupation.

[maveric]

39. As a parent of an 18 & 21 yr old male I say NO!

I'm also against this PNAC war for oil global domination. There are no real reasons for this nation to be involved in armed conflicts other that what I have allready mentioned. We were never threatened by Iraq or any other country, and we are not being attacked by foreign aggessors.
I will not let bu$h and his cronies take my sons to fight their war of greed and power.

[mermaid]

61. Get Your Sons To Tell The Recruiters They Are Gay

Hell...have 'em show up for the draft call wearing dresses!! THAT'LL get them out!! LOL

[Silverhair]

41. Even the conservatives say no to a draft again

If one looks around on the conservative sites they don't want a draft either. The military leadership is solidly opposed to a draft. They say that they can do far more militarily with a few willing motivated recruits than they can with a greater number of unwilling draftees. It looks like most of the left & all the right see things the same way on this.

There is some leftist thought that wants the draft back. Those folks see the all volunteer military as composed mostly of poor people, especially minorities, who see the service as a step up on the economic ladder. (When I joined that was the case for me. I didn't have indoor plumbing as a kid, and for years we lived in a house that didn't have electricity. In the winter, at night, our house was unheated.) They feel a draft would spread the burden more equally.

Personally, I think the draft is a bad idea, for many reasons.

[goobergunch]

43. kick for more votes

:kick:

[quaker bill]

44. Absolutely not.

We should instead deauthorize the selective service. Also chase the recruiters out of the high schools.

There will likely always be a military. There will be those who chose it for a career.

If there is a true need for an army to defend us from an actual attack, volunteers will be no problem because the people rise in their own defense.

A draft only allows the prosecution of unpopular wars. There should be no unpopular wars. In a democracy, if the people are not behind it, we should not be fighting.

[salin]

45. While I hate the idea - and have five nephews of age.... I don't know

if it can be avoided if these fools in the WH keep pushing for more wars - which based on their current rhetoric they appear poised to do.

Best way to prevent this - work like hell to get a democrat elected to the WH and to take back congress!

[ThomWV]

46. Example

A lady I work with is a life-time republican, but not a ranting fool. She is divorced with two grown sons. The youngest just joined the Army a couple of weeks ago. I asked her how she felt about Bush now? She shrugged and said, well, I sure can't vote for him now, refering to the chance for her son to find himself in harm's way during another military misadventure should Bush be relelected.

Thom

[arwalden]

47. Don't Some Countries Have 100% Mandatory Conscription?

Or am I remembering incorrectly?

-- Allen

[ForrestGump]

55. You mean male and female, or just male?

There's the Swiss model, that I think is just conscription of males, and the Singaporean version (again, I think just males). Some smaller nations have mandatory military service for a proportion of the population, male and female - done by lottery.

What about Israel? Do they have mandatory national service for both sexes?

As for the draft coming back to the US, my answer would be no way. Yes, there are very good reasons for reinstituting it, but we can almost guarantee that abuses will occur that will keep the situation Business-as-Usual for a new crop of privileged chickenhawks, with US corporate interests being served by a military (in effect, mercenaries) deployed in the name of corporate profits more blatantly than ever before.

And the argument that a new crop of the Right's upcoming élite would lose credibility should they duck and run doesn't ring true in light of the preponderance of chickenhawks - including the nominal 'president' - who are in charge of the DisUnited States of Amerika these days. They skedaddled when the time came to put their lives where their rhetoric was and they're doing just fine. Bonsai can even go AWOL/desert from his conveniently-arranged Air Guard stint, as a matter of record, and not have that fact appear in the newspapers whereas Clinton's anti-war stance was commented upon about every two minutes throughout his administration.

F***ers.

[Deja Q]

48. Definitely no expemptions

Oh, the rich... they take the most, therefore they should put back in the most too. That's fair. No argument here. Period.

[goobergunch]

49. kick for more votes

:kick:

[Guaranteed]

50. The correct, Democrat answer to this question is "YES."

Remember Rumsfeld saying there was no need for a draft, that the draft never did anything good for America anyway?
We NEED a draft more than anything. A draft is a huge wake-up call, and would make every single careless dumbass out there who supports Bush re-evaluate their position.

On edit: And I AM a 24 year old male.

[SiobhanClancy]

51. No,of course they shouldn't

If somehow they did bring back the draft,I don't see how they can continue to exempt females,though.

[Nederland]

52. Why waste your time

I wonder why in the hell people keep bringing this up.

The draft is not going to happen because no one wants it.

The Military doesn't want it.
Congress doesn't want it.
Voters don't want it.
Corporations don't want it.
Nobody wants it.

Its NOT going to happen, so don't even bother contemplating what would happen if it does.

[Jeff in Cincinnati]

53. Yes, but...

No loopholes. Everybody goes. But there would be alternative service for those whole religious/moral beliefs preclude service in the military. I think that if middle class and upper middle class kids were in the military, the government wouldn't be quite so trigger-happy.

[robcon]

54. Draft=Slavery

During the Congressional discussion about the all-volunteer army, a general said: "I don't want an army of mercenaries." The response was, appropriately, "...but you seem to want an army of slaves."

Anyone who is forced (at the punishment of prison) to work at a job they don't choose is a slave. We have outlawed slavery, and we should permanently outlaw the draft.

[Liberal Classic]

56. NO! Conscription is bad enough, but a polically motivated one?

Good grief! Are there no limits on what some people will suggest just to make a political point? A draft is bad enough as it is: conscription. Slavery. Propose conscription to score political brownie points?! Right now, those who don't support the war can protest all they want. People who want a draft for political reasons would draft anti-war protesters and put them in the military? How is that useful to to the military as a fighting force and how is this right to the people who don't believe in using force? It's wrong for both! To suggest such a thing just to make political hay is beyond crass! Shame on Rangle for suggesting such a despicable thing. Shame on those people who would inslave young men just to advance their own political agenda.

[VermontDem2004]

57. HELL NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I don't give a crap how perfect the draft system would have to be In to support it, I still say NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

let me say this, I can't believe people would want a draft so people wouldn't vote for Bush, troops are going to be dead even if there was a draft. Millions of Americans protest but Bush still goes to war, he only cares about the interests of his own.

[amish_enforcer]

62. Yes? In related news.....

.....sneaker sales have skyrocketed, due to mass "foot voting"

Hell the troops they have don't want to go back.....I'm undecided, because WE(the U.S.) made the mess and future messes, but this Iraq mess was NOT supported by the U.S., so if Junior wants to have his crusade, left him do it on HIS own dime, the public should not be held acountable for his "wars-of-whimsy"