Do some of you honestly think you are superior specimens of humanity

[supernova]

to those on Death Row?

Wow. If you do, you have a very long journey on the path to wisdom.

[madeline_con]

1. That's a good philosophical question...

that deserves a good philosophical answer.

By putting murderers to death, society is helping them on their path through many incarnations to become prepared for a fully evolved soul that is worthy to meet The One. :)

[supernova]

2. And you're avoiding my question

I don't care about the many life cycles one can possibly have; I'm talking about this life.

[madeline_con]

27. This life has to end for the soul to escape,

making its evolution possible.

I didn't make this up. I'm just repeating it.

IMO, it's no crazier than the idea that all men are sweetness and light and no one deserves to die for any reason. :)

[not systems]

3. twisted.

not in a good way

[supernova]

4. you got that right

[madeline_con]

30. I can't believe ....

I have to explain EVERY time I pull someone's leg on this forum. I have to remember the little :sarcasm: thingy. (sigh)

Is it sarcasm , or tongue-in-cheek? You define it. Peace.

[not systems]

34. Ohh ... the old state murder as path to enlightenment joke...

got it.

:rofl:

[uppityperson]

10. Do you mean if I kill someone I am helping them evolve?

Okay.

[madeline_con]

20. If they're a murderer, absolutely.

At least that's what the Eastern philosophers say.

[uppityperson]

46. self delete.

never mind, I just read the in-between postings too. :sarcasm: does help. peace too

[TahitiNut]

5. It sure seems that way to me.

The reasons for murder are always the same - whether voiced by individuals or the state. :shrug:
But it's murder nonetheless - and demeans us all. :puke:

[supernova]

7. I agree with you

It's just ugly. Ugly. :-(

[me b zola]

11. Murder is so much more repulsive when comitted by the state

When done by the state it carries the weight of legitimacy, all the more evil.

[johnnie]

65. But that isn't what this thread is about

The OP didn't mention putting people to death, they said the people on death row which implies they are still alive.

[johnnie]

6. I wouldn't say I am superior

But I have refrained from cutting heads off little children and having sex with their corpses. I don't think they should die, but I don't feel I am on the same level of humanity as they are.

[supernova]

8. So you do feel superior

edit: I have also refrained from committing mayhem in this life. But that doesn't mean that given a different set of circumstances I couldn't have turned out totally differently.

[johnnie]

24. You are painting with broad brush

Being human is comprised of many differentials. I'm not a DP supporter, but there are some things I haven't been able to change and the death penalty is one of them.

To say "given a different set of circumstances I couldn't have turned out totally differently" is not an argument because that is just supposin' and not reality. The people on death row have already reacted to their "different set of circumstances" and have chosen to take the wrong path.

[supernova]

50. Actually, it is an argument

You dismissing it doesn't make it so.

What I'm getting at is that we are all capable of horrible things. And pointing at someon in jail, on DR specifically, saying "he's a a murderer; he's not like me at all;" rings a little hollow.

[johnnie]

61. I disagree

Everyone might be capable of it, but few choose to do it or refrain from it. There *is* a difference.

[madeline_con]

32. That's a good point....

Would I be considered a snob if I refused to dine with the type you described? ;)

[johnnie]

45. Only if you refused the wine

Other than that, I'm sure you would be just fine. ;)

[TahitiNut]

47. Why do I get the impression that it takes such an effort on the part of ..

... some to "refrain" from such acts that they tend to congratulate themselves?

Seriously ... I personally found myself appalled by even contemplating killing in Viet Nam, let alone engaging in the "fog of war" flash recall of not really knowing whether I did. Some claim it's like "buck fever" - which is frightening to me. It's not even close. Not in my experience.

I can't even imagine a state of mind where it would take any conscious effort to "refrain" ... and I've had a pretty diverse range of "states of mind" over the course of my six decades on this ball of dirt. It's like rape. That's such a totally foreign and unnatural thing to me that I feel like I must be missing some "human genes" or something.

I get this impression about right-wingers -- that they regard the immense effort of living a decent and moral life to be such that they deserve some kind of promotion over those "lesser" than themselves who weren't successful in making that effort. It seems bizarre.

[johnnie]

68. I used that term loosely

I have never once in my 41 years had to consciously "refrain" from killing someone. I was just making a point that not everyone kills people because they get pissed off or want shiny thing.

It's hard on these boards to say things that every single person will automatically "get". I do my best.

[TahitiNut]

78. I wasn't speaking of you personally. Your post merely reminded me.

This is something that's nagged at me for many years. It's like some GRAND SCALE WHO-BLINKS-FIRST contest I'm observing ... death penalty advocates seemingly outlasting those whose impulse control wasn't as good and wanting to collect the "bet": their lives.

When people have told me that capital punishment is a deterrence ... I've often wondered: Is it enough to keep THEM from killing? If so, does that mean they'd let loose in some orgy of homicide in the absence of the deterrent? It seems to me that for someone to believe that the death penalty is a deterrence then they've got to feel that deterrence in themselves. I have to say it makes me a bit uncomfortable in their company - like, when will they snap?

I guess that's a bit like those who claim gender orientation is a "choice" - and I've asked them when it was they made that choice and how difficult it was. I sure don't recall making any such 'choice' myself and I wonder whether I'm missing something - some biological or genetic component that others seem to possess.

(sigh) :shrug:

[johnnie]

81. I dig

It's like them saying the death penalty is a deterrent, but yet it isn't a deterrent enough for them wanting to put someone to death on death row. It makes no sense. Killing is killing if it is by their own hand or the one who "pulls the lever" as long as they are okay with it. All this can really boggle the mind and sometimes I wonder what the point of it all really is.

BTW, thanks for your service. I meant no disrespect to you at all.

[MercutioATC]

9. No, I've just made more responsible choices.

That's what it's about (IMO)...choice. People on death row CHOSE to make the decisions they did and, rightly, should enjoy the consequences of those decisions.

[supernova]

13. Have you ever been at the edge?

It ain't a pretty place to be.

I came close once. But I chose not to. Still, I understand the impulse, believe me.

But this thread is really about how much we are all willing or unwilling to face the darkness within ourselves.

Saying yes to the the DP is the easy part.

[leftofthedial]

12. I'm a specimen alright.

[supernova]

14. LOL!

Unless you explain further, I'm gonna assume that was a joke.

[leftofthedial]

28. yeah

I'm a joke too!

[salvorhardin]

15. Would you feel justified in murdering some people?

For instance -- a Hitler, or Mussolini or Stalin. Maybe Saddam Hussein?

Don't get me wrong -- I'm against the death penalty. I'm just asking if there are ever any circumstances when you feel the murder of another human is called for (outside of self defense)?

[supernova]

17. Self-defense yes, DP no

I don't think it is ever appropriate for the State to take up the vengence mantle.

As for people like Hitler, Mussolini or Pol Pot. They can rot in jail on bread and water for the rest of their lives.

[salvorhardin]

21. How is one morally superior to the other?

Still restricting the conversation to the most despicable, cruel, inhumane people. Would what you sugest not be considered torture by some and death the more merciful of the two?

[supernova]

29. I didn't call one morally superior to the other

I just said that if I had to, I'd fight for my life. If the perpetrator got killed in the process, so be it. But I wouldn't mourn the fact that it came to that any less.

[salvorhardin]

35. That's not what I was asking

How is life in prison subsisting only on bread and water morally superior to killing somebody if that person has committed the vilest, most despicable acts you can think of? For instance, genocide. Some would call what you proposed torture ("rot in jail on bread and water").

[supernova]

38. But it isn't death

I don't want the State murdering others in my name.

[salvorhardin]

41. So torture is better than death? n/t

[supernova]

52. It's not torture

Show me where it says that.

[salvorhardin]

82. You said...

"rot in jail on bread and water for the rest of their lives"

Some would say that is torture.

[johnnie]

31. Interesting

"As for people like Hitler, Mussolini or Pol Pot. They can rot in jail on bread and water for the rest of their lives"

Why shouldn't you then? Or are you superior?

I'm not trying to be a dick, but it goes against what you said in your OP. :hi:

[supernova]

33. No it doesn't

I don't see it as a contradiction at all.

[mondo joe]

16. I'm certainly a specimen superior to many of them.

As well as to those in the Bush administration.

[supernova]

18. Is that a fact?

[mondo joe]

19. It's my opinion. And you have yours.

[supernova]

22. What exactly makes you superior?

Your ethnic group? Your job? The money in your pocket to afford broadband? A nice car?

What? Help me out here, 'cause I'm not seeing it.

[mondo joe]

25. Not doing the things that get you on death row or the * white house,

of course.

I can't think why ethnicity, job, broadband or vehicle would have any bearing.

But what you do to others would.

[Marr]

91. I would assume it's the "not being a multiple murderer" thing.

You know- the same reason Mr. Williams is *on* Death Row?

[REP]

23. Are They Your Moral Equals?

[supernova]

26. Yes, they are

I am no better than they. I deserve no better treatment than they.

[REP]

36. That's Just Silly

People who have comitted horrific crimes deserve the same treatment you do - including freedom? That makes no sense. Prisoners deserve humane treatment, medical care, legal representation, freedom from rape and abuse - but they do not deserve the unfettered freedom that you and I enjoy.

If you are saying that you have the same morals as a thief, rapist and/or murderer, I will take your word for it.

[supernova]

39. You're misreading me.

I didn't say people who commit crimes deserve to be walking around without a care in the world.

What I mean is, I don't see myself as being that different from them.

[mondo joe]

42. Just different enough to let them rot in cages living on

bread and water, right?

[supernova]

51. And I'm also saying

that I might see myself doing that also.

Have some empathy bro. It might do you good.

[mondo joe]

55. You're just a determinist, telling the wrong person to have empathy.

And if they can be determined by their environment why shouldn't I?

You think I don't have empathy? Talk to the killers.

[supernova]

58. Am I supposed to be offended?

"You're a determinist"

I'm just saying that we all have the capacity for it. It just doesn't, for whatever reason, come out in everone. Thank whatever you wish for that.

[mondo joe]

63. The "whatever reason" is who the person is. Or do you not believe

in free will?

[supernova]

66. Of course I do

believe in free will. I've never said otherwise. It's only because I exercised my free will that I am not sitting in jail right now.

Our environments can have a great deal of input on us, however. And when I see people saying that someone is less than human, it bothers me. Because that's when *we* get the green light to kill others, state sanctioned or no.

[mondo joe]

69. Funny, I never had to exert much will to not end up in jail.

I never wanted to kill or rape anyone.

But as I saif before, the people who do those things are human. Just lesser humans.

[supernova]

72. Then you haven't seen the extreme edge

of existance. I have.

[mondo joe]

74. And why haven't I? Because of who I am.

You keep missing that.

[supernova]

76. Wow! Let's put you on a pedistal

I'll hug you and squeeze you and pet you and love you..

I'm saying, don't knock if you haven't been there dude.

[mondo joe]

77. Why not? I can knock Dick Cheney and Ann Coulter.

I can certainly knock a bunch of murderers.

[electricray]

79. This is turning into a passive-aggressive pissing contest.

You weren't born the person you are, nor were any of us. You became that person because you had support or found strength when you needed it. The criminals you classify as being below you never had that support or found that strength. Rather than considering yourself fortunate you choose to pat yourself on the back. Introduce me to a self-made m person and I'll point out all the backs of those he stood on while not looking back.

[wickerwoman]

84. On the other hand,

if it's all about nurture and support, how do you explain the number of amoral rich kids who kill their parents or rape girls in college? Maybe Mommy didn't hug them enough? We can try to blame it all on socio-economic factors but some of the most self-absorbed, un-empathetic people (the people I could actually imagine killing someone) also happen to lead some of the most priviledged lifestyles and have quite normal parents.

I think it's a mixture of nature and nurture and free will. Like you said- some people "find the strength" and I believe it's something you're born with (or without). I do think I'm fortunate (that I was born without very aggressive tendancies AND was lucky enough to grow up in an environment where I didn't need to develop them.) But I think it would be a mistake to imagine that all people are born with an equal propensity for violence and that it is only upbringing that determines how we react to situations.

Sorry if this is a bit gibberishy- I have to get to work and can't edit. But I just wanted to throw that out there.

[electricray]

93. This is getting a little to broad but I just want to note...

that you have to define priviledged. I happen to believe that priviledged people are those with a wonderful sense of self. Those people would never kill or hurt or maim. They are not priviledged becuase of the money they grew up with, rather the environment and opportunities they were exposed to.

And I don't believe that it is solely upbringing that contributes to violent tendencies. Anything that would lead someone to cross the line needs to be researched. Exposure to chemicals, diet imbalances, early exposure to loss (whether violent or reasonable to an adult or not), mental state of care-givers during childhood. There are so many factors to consider. Perhaps evolution is dealing with something environmental in strange ways and society, rather than choosing to recognize these trends, doesn't pay attention to them.

I am not opposed to incarceration of those that we don't yet understand but I am fundamentally opposed to killing them. Especially when there is so much that we can learn from them. Perhaps the best way they can pay their debt to society is to reveal some of the things that brought on the mindset for what they did.

[mondo joe]

89. Bullshit. My environment and support certainly played a part but so did

my intrinsic identity.

And are you telling me Bush never had support? Cheney? Scott Peterson?

I couldn't be less impressed by your idea of a bunch of people on death row who would have all ben virtuous citizens had they only been raised properly.

[electricray]

92. So do you believe in free will or not?

Intrinsic identity implies that you are pre-wired to act in a certain way and your decisions are defined by it. That doesn't sound like freedom. That sounds like when a situation arises where murder is justified you will be bound by some pre-determined force. Sounds to me like you believe you are just an A-1 supreme being. Well excuse me, your highness.

No Bush never had support. Daddy was a busy CIA puke and have you ever even heard anything about the horrid wench that his mother is? He lost a sister prematurely, nobody cared when he coked or boozed it up. No I don't believe that he had any support. Perhaps if society had recognized that before he fell all the way through the cracks and into Rove's lap the US wouldn't be in the peril it is now. I don't know much about Cheney or Scott Peterson but if you are trying to equate money to support or say that somehow the financial situation someone grows up in is evident of the level of nurturing and guidance they recieved, let me just say what a crock.

You seem awfully quick to jump to the "it's all their fault" card for a liberal. Do you also believe that all homeless people made poor decisions and therefore deserve to live in squallor? Or what about the working class, do you believe they "made the wrong choices" and therefore deserve whatever pay scale they are offered? Are you the elitist that all the right-wing nuts are always squawking about?

As far as not being impressed by me or my ideas, who gives a fuck. Maybe I take this being a liberal thing a little too far but I like to know that my foundation is strong. I choose to support the idea that all people can succeed when given the opportunity. All people try their best with what they are given. The conservative idea is that opportunity must only be given to the worthy. I believe my argument falls on the correct side of that divide, where as yours puts you smack dab in Repub-land.

[jobycom]

37. Wisdom, shmisdom

People aren't punished for being inferior specimens of humanity. They are punished for acts they commit. I'm opposed to all cases of the death penalty, but what does some esoteric mumbo jumbo have to do with anything? Or more directly, do some of you honestly think you have superior wisdom to people whose journies you have not taken? Wow. If you do, you have a very long journey on the path to wisdom.

[supernova]

44. That's not what I said.

I'm not opposed to punishment.

What I was responding to is an attitude that I'm see here in GD tonight that tells me certain DP supporters have disconnected from the rest of humanity, including those on Death Row. That somehow they are subhuman, or less than we are, etc.

This is not the case. We are all humans, with varying degrees of impulse control.

Lastly, if you don't like my "estoteric mumbo jumbo," stay outta my thread. :hi:

[mondo joe]

49. There's more difference than impulse control.

The fact that some people have those impulses alone will tell you that.

And those on death row aren't subhuman - they're human. Just, most often, worse humans. Like * and Cheney.

[jobycom]

64. I liked it enough to flame it, didn't I?

That's a compliment! ;-)

I can see where you're coming from, but your post seemed awfully arrogant without any explanation.

ANd there are many on death row with impeccable impulse control. There is far more to crime than that.

[supernova]

75. Well, I happen to agree with you

"There is far more to crame than that."

Some people are psychopaths and sociopaths. But again, I wouldn't call them "subhuman."

[jobycom]

80. No, I wouldn't call them subhuman, either. But

I wouldn't want them to date my daughters.

I don't like labels or name-calling. It allows people to too easily dismiss others based on bias and preconception, rather than hearing them out, or conversely, to give more weight to a person because of a positive label. That's why I won't use terms like Repuke or comment on someone's "spine" or "balls." People say more when they limit their comments to the issue, rather than applying blanket insults. I think that's what you're getting at, though ironically what set me off on your OP was that I felt you were doing the opposite, and making a broad generalization (generalizations are just labels in disguise--including this one!).

Having said all that, there is something other than circumstances which separates me from someone on death row. I can see how extreme circumstances could put me there, but I'm quite sure I've been through many circumstances that have put others there. That makes me superior in some way. Not in every way.

[XemaSab]

40. Jesus would say

that we're all equals.

He'd invite Tookie to dinner, and offer forgiveness.

[supernova]

54. Yep.

:hi:

[MrSlayer]

43. Maybe not a superior specimen but certainly in better control of myself.

There's plenty of people I've wanted to kill throughout my life, people who deserve it but I've never acted upon it. I've certainly never murdered anyone in cold blood and I've never hurt anyone who didn't hurt me first. People on death row are there for a reason, they've done something so foul and so horrid that death is the only proper sentence. So while I don't think I'm a higher species, I certainly am a better person than those who are deservedly on death row.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

60. Amen, MrSlayer.

[Vinnie From Indy]

48. What a positively Silly Post

N/T

[supernova]

53. Wow, how profound

:sarcasm:

[electricray]

56. No absolutely not. Every person is fallible.

Regardless of when, where, how, or why the failing happened, the horrid act(s) that these people commited did not happen in a vaccum. I don't mean to say that human choice is irrelevant, only to say that no two humans ever choose between identical paths.

Consider this hypothetical situation:

You and another person are standing in a shopping mall waiting for an elevator. The elevator door opens and a man is standing there with a briefcase filled with one-hundred dollar bills totalling $10 million. He offers the money to the person standing next to you, he/she politely declines and walks away. The man then offers you the money and you gladly accept and go on your way, all the while shaking your head at the utter insanity of the person who declined. You know nothing about that other person, nor their life experience leading up to that moment. If you are anything like me you couldn't fathom walking away from an opportunity like that. But if you are anything like the people in this article you might understand why the person in the shopping mall walked away from the money.

The point I am trying to make is that chances are good that no one here has ever walked into a convenience store in the same mindset that Tookie Williams has been convicted of. But none of us has ever taken the steps leading up to that day and that moment in his life either.

I am not an apolopgist, simply a realist. All crime is commited by all society. Humans are not born killers or rapists or child molesters. Somewhere along the way people get left behind by a society that may not have time or patience for them. Something atrocious finally happens and that person can no longer anguish along quietly because the acts they commit are large and disgusting to those who didn't get left behind. What we never saw were the tiny crimes that cost this person their humanity long before they commited the crime that so disturbed us.

Criminals should not be put to sleep they should be case studies. Every single one of them. We should know how society has failed so that it can stop doing it. These criminals can never go free. They are broken people but they still have value to all of us. Killing them is simply wasteful, but then again American's never have had a problem with waste have they?

[mondo joe]

59. So all they are is products of their environments? Anyone else

would do the exact same thing in their shoes?

They have no will of their own?

[supernova]

67. Is that all you got?

twisting my words around?

[mondo joe]

70. Choose your own words. You credit "something" that determines who

does things that get them on death row and who doesn't.

That "something" is who we are. And I'm quite content that I'm superior on that count.

[electricray]

73. We all have free will

but that is irrelevant. We are not talking about predestination here. There is merit in analysis of behavior, however. My point is not that that they don't have free will but rather that the execution of that free will may be somewhat predictable with enough study.

If I were forced with killing someone or letting my family die I believe that the exercise of my free will at that point is fairly predictable. I am merely trying to say that since not all situations are black and white, rigorous examination of the disdainful acts will reveal that we are all fallible but very few of us have ever been pushed to our breaking point.

[supernova]

71. Beautifully said

Thank you.

[Zynx]

57. Well, I certainly haven't killed anyone.

[Darranar]

62. It's really irrelevant.

The question in my view is not whether Tookie, or anyone else, "deserves it," or whether we are "better" or "worse" than he is.

That's a pointless question. It enters into countless other issues - how much control do we really have over our lives? Would a respectable upper middle class person who has never committed a crime in his or her life and shudders at the thought of killing anyone be a murderer if he or she had been born in a slum? And to furtherly complicate the matter, how can one declare that a person is "evil" or "deserving" of anything? Is a person not a complex organism, with many tendencies, good and bad? By imprisoning or killing a person are we not imprisoning or killing the entirety of the person, the potential for good as well as for bad, the capability to love as well as to hate, to save lives as well as to destroy them?

How does one measure the value of a human life? Is it something that can be calculated with a formula? Does one tally up the good and bad stuff, assign each one a value, and add everything up?

Ultimately, all bloodshed, all imprisonment, all oppression, whatever the justifications, is a tremendous waste of human life and human potential.

My position is a cautious one. I am opposed to committing any harm against anyone for any reason but that of prevention of future harm. If the person is still a threat efforts should be taken to prevent him from being a threat, and in some circumstances deterrence of crimes may be necessary even when the person being punished is no longer a threat. That is especially true in regard to national leaders who have been removed; abuses of power are among the most devastating crimes that occur in our world, and it should be shown that such abuses are unacceptable.

I am opposed to the state-imposed death penalty in all cases, because I do not believe the state should be in the business of killing people unless there is a clear threat from them, and with the imprisonment option there is no such threat.

[The Straight Story]

83. My decisions were superior to those of others

That makes things I have done better and more open and caring about others in this world than those who go off half assed killing other people.

We are all equal, some of us just make inferior decisions. Then there are those who keep making the same decisions over and over again. Why kill one person when you can kill 4?

Tookie's choices and actions were inferior. That is why he is where he is and why I am where I am. If I go off half cocked tomorrow and do the same thing then I too would consider my actions inferior to those of others who were not dumb enough to do what I did.

And yes, my actions in life in general can be seen as inferior to those of others who have similar goals and make better choices, I learn from that and try to grow. Made a lot of mistakes - but never took it upon myself to murder some folks.

[undergroundpanther]

85. I am superior morally

To all sociopaths pedophiles torturers and rapists.

[Solly Mack]

86. I'm painfully human with all the faults and potential badness

and ability to commit horrible deeds as any other human. I've been fortunate enough to never be so desperate that I would act on some of my baser impulses - though I have acted on others from pure selfishness. I don't know what I'd do in certain situations, even though I like to think I'd always to the right thing. I have a very bad temper - a temper I have to remain aware of and keep in check - but then I had help along the way to make sure I understood that about myself. The older I got, the better in check it got. Some people don't get the help they need.

I am a lucky and fortunate human...I had chances and opportunities not every human gets.

Life hasn't been that hard for me - when compared to so many others.

I understand that a single moment can change my life - for the worse.

[Peter Frank]

87. I am superior in my mind. (Hehe)..

...but some of my actions may condemn me.

I never meant to have sex with that woman (Claudette Breginski).

[Raydawg1234]

88. I would say that i have better morals

[Nikia]

90. I cannot know that , but I have observed that I am different than others

I had a well developed sense of empathy at an early age, before kindergarten. In many ways, this empathy is to my detriment. It doesn't even help me help those who I am feeling for because it is only feeling, not objective solutions or knowing the right words. It has caused me a lot of pain, pain that becomes progressively harder to deal with as I have become more of a realist.
In my pain, I have wanted to give up empathy. I can distance myself from the concerns of others as long as we don't interact. I can pretend that I don't see them or care. When face to face though, when my actions directly effect them, my empathy will be there.
I did not grow up in an easy, happy, healthy situation. I think that in some ways my empathy is just as pathological as those who have none. I absorbed my anger at the unjust things that happened in my life and the pain. I coped with the pain by achieving in high school as much as I could, to make up for being so bad that these bad things happened to me. I knew others who purposely committed small crimes so that they could be away from their abusive parents because they would rather go to prision than cause their parents to suffer in prision. Others killed themselves.
I sometimes wonder if people who don't have empathy, who transfer their anger onto others, are superior psychologically. They don't feel others pain nor as much of their own.

[Jim Sagle]

94. Fuck yeah.

:beer:

[Fescue4u]

95. Yes. I am a better person than a vicious killer

Am I perfect, hardly

Do I break the law occasionally? yup

Am I flawed? Yes, deeply


Do I have a very long journey on the path to Wisdom? Indeed I do. In fact I will not live long enough to learn all that I yearn to learn.

Do I kill people for money and then laugh about their plight? No I do not.

But sorry, I *AM* superior to the monsters who prey on the weak...and so are you and most people here on this board.

[Lilith Velkor]

96. Not only that

I think myself superior to most of those not on Death Row, as well. Call it unwise if you must, but that's honestly what I think.

[flvegan]

97. Excellent question. My answer is no. Why?

I'd ask for a definition of "superior" first, before I elaborated.

I don't trust those that prosecute, nor defend in the name of the State. I've seen too many that were found innocent after too many found them guilty. Also, too many found guilty for subpar reasons.

It's a matter of "did" versus "convicted of doing" I think. Very, very different things.

I also do not believe in the death penalty for any reason.

[wixomblues]

98. Yes. And why is the path to wisdom so condescending?

Everyone is crated equal, but our choices define us. If you are on death row, and I am not, I would consider myself superior if asked directly. I don't frame my view of people, individuals or groups, as superior or inferior. But, if asked, then yes, I am superior to any person on death row. Why? For the simple, simple reason that I view death row as a place that is only reached by making inferior decisions, which I have somehow managed to avoid.

If you must know.

[sendero]

99. My theory is simple..

... people think that they are in total control of their lives and their destiny and their moods and their anger and their actions and their thoughts.

But they are not. And some are born with deficits in all of those areas and some develop them over time. While I condemn them, I also pity them.

But on the other hand, there are people who are damaged beyond redemption, and nothing society can do for them will fix that. Should society let their misfortune become the misfortune of countless others?

[electricray]

100. I don't think that anyone is suggesting that these people should be...

allowed to run free. Simply that no one is, as you say, "damaged beyond redemption". There is value in every human mind. Even those as perverse and devoid of compassion as some of those residing on our country's death rows. Perhaps society has to work a little harder to mine that value, especially once a crime has been comitted and a pattern of behavior defined.

Couldn't these fallen humans be studied? Couldn't we come up with an eventual rubrik to help predict crime and work to prevent it with preperation and avoidance of the crime rather than punsihment and prosecution after the fact?

And as far as misfortune begetting other misfortune, what about the family of the guilty? What crime did they commit? What lesson will they learn by losing their family member? Retribution never heals but redemption heals in perpetuity.

[rucky]

103. That's the right way to approach the issue, IMO.

i think we'll find out more about some of those "deficits" as the genome study continues. Just like having a learning disability. If we focus on reform instead of punishment, it would change the debate drastically.

[RandomKoolzip]

101. Yes, I do. I never killed anyone. n/t

[Aretha]

102. Am I superior to John King, Lawrence Brewer

and Clarence Ray Allen? You bet I am. God help us if anyone here isn't.

[TheWraith]

104. Yes, for one simple reason. They got caught. I didn't.

(Because some people here have no sense of humor, I shall herein clarify that I am JOKING.)

[baby_mouse]

105. I reject the premise

It's typical to suppose "Judge not lest ye be judged yourself", but this ignoring that most of the time we are all judged by each other all the time anyway. To be clear: avoiding making judgements of other people as a way of avoiding being judged is unlikely to be successful.

People are judged on what they do, not what they are.

I don't murder or rape people so I don't get put on death row. Whether I'm somehow innately superior or not is irrelevant.

[LWolf]

106. No, why?

I'm not anywhere close to christian, but I generally practice a few principles that can be found in their bible, as well as other places:

1. The golden rule

2. Expect to reap what you sow.

3. Judge not,lest ye be judged.