Wisconsin schools facing lawsuits over 'holiday' programs

[Err]

Colin Fly, Associated Press
Last update: December 9, 2005 at 7:59 AM

MILWAUKEE — A nonprofit conservative group is threatening to take two public school districts in Wisconsin to court over holiday programs it claims discriminate against Christianity.

In Madison, a group of lawmakers wants the 35-foot-tall balsam fir in the Capitol rotunda to be called the state Christmas tree, rather than using the name of "holiday tree'' that was adopted in 1985, but there's no indication any change will be made.

The Christmas advocates contend the separation of church and state is being taken too far, both at the Capitol and in the two schools whose programs are being targeted by the Orlando, Fla.-based Liberty Counsel.

"What we are seeing with these two schools is that this holiday is merely a ghost of Christmas past,'' said Mat Staver, president of the Liberty Counsel, a group endorsed by the Rev. Jerry Falwell.

<snip>

More here: www.startribune.com/stories/484/5772991.html

:eyes:

[China_cat]

They really don't see the irony of this, do they?

In Madison, a group of lawmakers wants the 35-foot-tall balsam fir in the Capitol rotunda to be called the state Christmas tree, rather than using the name of "holiday tree''

I think a group of pagans should file suit to regain their own symbol of the season.

[Err]

3. I agree.

[G_j]

6. the Yule-Tree

http://www.simnet.is/gardarj/yule6.htm

Evergreen trees have always inspired awe and reverence in man. They seem to defy the winter with their verdure, even on the darkest days of the year. No evergreen tree is native to Iceland, and the Rowan, European Mountain Ash, served as the tree which was revered in Iceland.

The idea of the Yule tree was imported to Iceland in the middle of the last century, and the first recorded Yule tree was a Rowan mentioned in 1862. Lights burned on its branches during Yule Eve and did not go out even when the wind was strong. Obviously an outdoor Yule tree. Soon afterward, Yule trees, mainly home-made, started to become common in Iceland. These were made from a central pole on which branches were nailed, long at the bottom and tapering as they neared the top. On these branches the candles were fastened. The Yule tree was usually painted green, and native foliage was used to decorate it. Numerous, coloured pouches were then hung on the Yule tree, often filled with candies which the children were allowed to eat after the candles had burned out.

In this century, locally grown evergreens as well imported trees have replaced the home-made ones. Nowadays most Yule trees in Iceland are locally grown. The tradition is to have a star or crown at the top, and to decorate the branches with light bulbs and Yule decorations. The Icelandic Flag is also commonly used as a decoration. The Yule tree is usually decorated on Þorláksmessa or early on December 24th,
<snip>
---

Yule
http://www.reference.com/browse/wiki/Yule

Yule is the winter solstice Blót (celebration) in Ásatrú, the pagan practices of the Germanic peoples prior to the arrival of Christianity. Today, it is also one of the eight solar holidays, or sabbats, of Neopaganism. In modern neopaganism, Yule is celebrated on the winter solstice: in the northern hemisphere, circa December 21, and in the southern hemisphere, circa June 21.
"Yule" and "Yuletide" are also archaic terms for Christmas, sometimes invoked in songs to provide atmosphere. Indeed, this is the only meaning of "Yule" accepted by either the full Oxford English Dictionary or the Concise Oxford Dictionary, and people unfamiliar with ancient Germanic pagan traditions will not distinguish between Yule and Christmas. This usage survives in the term "Yule log"; it may also persist in some Scottish dialects.
<snip>

[China_cat]

7. Yes, some of us actually have looked into the history of the custom.

Not long ago and far away, Santa was getting ready for his annual trip, but there were problems everywhere.

Four of his elves got sick and the trainee elves did not produce the toys as fast as the regular ones, so Santa was beginning to feel the pressure of being behind schedule.

Then, Mrs. Claus told Santa that her mom was coming to visit. This stressed Santa even more. When he went to harness the reindeer, he found that three of them were about to give birth and two had jumped the fence and were out, heaven knows where. More stress. Then, when he began to load the sleigh, one of the boards cracked and the toy bag fell to the ground and scattered the toys.

So, frustrated, Santa went into the house for a cup of coffee and a shot of whiskey. When he went to the cupboard, he found the elves had hid the liquor and there was nothing to drink. In his frustration, he dropped the coffee pot and it broke into hundreds of little pieces all over the kitchen floor.

He went to get the broom and found that mice had eaten the straw it was made from. Just then the doorbell rang and Santa cussed on his way to the door. He opened the door and there was a little angel with a great big Christmas tree. The angel said, "Where would you like to put this tree, Santa?"

And that my friend, is how the little angel came to be on top of the Christmas tree.

[G_j]

10. he he

that was great!

:applause:

[proud2BlibKansan]

8. Let them go ahead

Then next year, when this lawsuit results in a huge friggin Ramadan (sp?) celebration, we can all say "You asked for it"

If you cave in to one religion, you gotta cave in to ALL of them. These idiots must not realize how many Muslims are in this country.

This is why I oppose prayer in public school. As soon as we start that, it's only a matter of time before we stop 6 times a day to pray to Allah. And we just don't have enough time as it is to teach the kids to read and write.

If these nutjobs are too stupid to read the constitution, they will learn about it soon enough.

[China_cat]

11. As a friend of mine succinctly put it

How about a moment of science instead of a moment of silence?

[Clark2008]

18. I don't think there are a lot of Muslims in Wisconsin

However, there are in the South, surprisingly. One of the biggest communities of Muslims is in the Raleigh-Durham area of North Carolina. Heck, the former speaker of the general assembly in Tennessee is descended from Arabs (Jimmy Naifeh) and there are whole cities in the South named after Palestine and Lebanon.

I think it would hilarious if the Muslims in some of these red states (and I live in Tennessee) would pressure the fundies for a Ramadan celebration in light of the fundies' pressures to foist Christmas on the general population.

:rofl:

[proud2BlibKansan]

19. They are coming your way I'll bet

Most are Americans. The increase where I live is in the African American community. They aren't middle eastern Muslims for the most part.

[Loonman]

1. Persecution LOL

Throw some of these dildoes to the lions so they know what persecution is. Whiny fucks.

[drduffy]

16. too many christians, too few lions

[G_j]

2. Holiday:

Middle English holidai, holy day, from Old English hlig dæg : hlig, holy; see holy + dæg, day; see day.

these people are just plain dumb

[proud2BlibKansan]

4. As long as they leave Festivus alone

I am good. LOL :)

[Dhalgren]

5. I think I know now why that guy in Florida hung Santa from a tree.

These fundie assholes are killing the holiday buzz for everyone. Might as well hang Saint Nick; the fundie Christians have fucked-up Christmas just like they do everything they touch. Ho-fucking-ho-fucking-ho...

[Rob H.]

9. Those poor, downtrodden fundagelicals

If only there were a single, powerful politician who was on their side--someone like, like...the President! Yeah! Too bad he's not one of 'em. :sarcasm:

The most telling detail from the story (emphases mine):

Parents at the two schools alerted the group about their concerns with the holiday programs, including Ridgeway Elementary's decision to use the tune of "Silent Night'' for a song called "Cold in the Night.''

"They're discriminating based upon a religious viewpoint,'' (Mat) Staver (president of the Liberty Counsel, a group endorsed by the Rev. Jerry Falwel), said. "It sends a tremendous disconnect to a young person when you're familiar with the song 'Silent Night' and tune and all of sudden you learn the same tune with totally secular words.''

Diane Messer, administrator of the Dodgeville School District, said the holiday show is titled "The Little Tree's Christmas Gift'' and was copyrighted in 1988. It's about a family that goes to buy a Christmas tree and uses a collection of familiar Christmas carol melodies to tell the story.

"Somebody totally misunderstood and had the belief that one of our teachers took it upon herself to rewrite the words to 'Silent Night,''' she said. "This program is well within our district's policy which allows us the use of both religious and secular content in our curriculum and in our productions and performances.''

Why am I not surprised that an organization tied to Jerry Falwell is right in the middle of this? Idiots.

[mondo joe]

12. How on earth can calling it a holiday tree be discriminatory?

Isn't it, in point of fact, a holiday tree?

Are Christians denied liking it, seeing it, feeling it's for their holiday?

[Err]

17. I was thinking the same thing.

[MessiahRp]

13. The WI State Legislature

is buried with insane fundies who keep pushing for stuff like Concealed Carry, Gay Marriage Amendments, Pharmacists right to refusal of birth control, and we're just waiting for intelligent design to be next.

Gov. Doyle has vetoed such a large percentage of the bills because of it. Plus they instituted a property tax freeze and in their budget tried to slash the school funding dramatically. Now local municipalities are totally screwed and thinking of cutting or charging for most of their regular services (i.e. garbage pickup).

Ever since Doyle got the Governor's office they have made it their game to try to stop him from getting any important agenda through and instead take on divisive topics to weaken him for the 2006 election. It has worked.

The War on Christmas being carried on by this group of idiots does not surprise me. They haven't bothered to address a single substantiative issue for the last four years plus.

Rp

[Tari]

14. So the asswipes threaten to file a lawsuit calling for an injunction

against the school's program. The kids have been practicing for weeks, looking forward to performing, & the school is being blackmailed.

"Recognized by the IRS as a 501(c)(3) organization, Liberty Counsel is funded by donations from concerned individuals, churches and organizations across the country."

RW attacks trial lawyers unless they're bought & paid for. Fucking lovely.

[LondonReign2]

15. The separation between church and state being taken too far?

Either it is separate ot it isn't, you fundie idiots! Ut can't be "just a little seperated" just like you can't be "a little bit pregnant".

Of course they can't argue that there should be separation, desperately as they want to, so they their desire for a theocracy behind semantics.

Asswipes.