Did Viveca Novak tip off KKKRove's lawyer? or not?

[in_cog_ni_to]

I was watching Olbemann repeat last night and Lawrence O'Donnell says Viveca may have "accidentally" tipped off Luskin to the fact that "rumor had it, KKKRove WAS Cooper's source for the Plame info" and she thought Luskin already knew that but he didn't? Is THAT the gist of this? SO, since she tipped off Luskin, KKKRove knew he had to tell the truth to Fitzgerald or he would purger himself? KKKRove, at that point in time, had yet to testify??? Is that right? I still don't see why KKKRove would NOT be indicted for "BEING COOPER'S SOURCE." O'Donnell seems to think KKKRove will not be indicted? :grr:

[lonestarnot]

1. booooo boooooo boooooooo

:evilfrown: :mad: :argh: :grr: :nuke:

[ROakes1019]

2. tipster

The way I understand it, Novak tipped off Luskin after Rove testified. Then, Rove asked to appear before the GJ again,where he claimed he had talked with Cooper but it had slipped his mind. This is his defense. I don't see how Luskin helps that defense at all.

[H2O Man]

6. That's correct.

It is important to keep in mind that Mr. Rove has testified three times thus far. After he had testified that he had not soken to Matt Cooper, Ms. Novak had lunch with Rove's attorney. She told him that Cooper would eventually be forced to testify that Rove was indeed his source. More, Time was prepared to turn over documentation of Cooper's discussion if the federal courts ruled against them.

Keep in mind that Cooper's notes indicated that Rove requested "super secret background" status.

When Luskin informed Rove of this, Karl went back and reviewed his records, including e-mails, etc. He found that indeed he had left a trail .... the note to Hadley that confirmed he had spoken to Cooper about Plame.

In the days following Cooper's grand jury testimony, it was reported that Luskin called Fitzgerald and offered to testify again.

At this point, Fitzgerald is checking to see if Ms. Novak's "story" matches Luskin's. Even if it does match exactly, the fact remains that Rove lied to FBI investigators and to the grand jury, and only changed his testimony once he was confronted with solid documentation he had lied. He could face the same charges as Libby, at this point.

What is happening now, however, is that Luskin is attempting to make a deal for Rove. In return for no charges being filed against Karl, he might have his memory jogged to the point that he could recall some more information about another senior administration official's role in at least the cover-up. For the sake of this discussion, I will refer to this official by a code name .... "Dick Cheney."

[in_cog_ni_to]

9. Thanks H2O Man. Great explanation. Do you think Fitzgerald will

make that deal with Luskin just to get Cheney? OR will he go for ALL of them? Scooter, KKKRove AND Cheney?

[H2O Man]

12. It might be safe

to assume that at this point, the "hold up" is that Fitzgerald wants a deal to include at least one minor charge against Rove. Luskin is banking on convincing Fitzgerald that it would be difficult to convict Rove, because he had simply forgotten the conversation, and then was open and honest once he had his memory jogged by Ms. Novak's "friendly reminder."

I believe that Fitzgerald could convict Rove on several charges. There's more than enough there to convict him on similar charges as those filed against Libby.

I also think that, while it would be wonderful -- not to mention just -- to convict Rove on every violation, that Fitzgerald knows the most serious parts of the crime & cover-up involve two men: Libby and Cheney.

It will be fascinating to find out how Mr. Fitzgerald plays his cards in the next two weeks. It is even possible that the public will find out, if he comes to a decision.

Two things that I would suggest people keep in mind are, first (as noted on Hardball), Ms. Novak's role in this is far more significant than the corporate media is noting. She is part of the cover-up. Warning Luskin was interfering with an investigation. Second, the Woodward business is in large part significant because of the VP's office's effort to hide that it was Hadley who told Bob.

[mod mom]

19. I hope you are correct in that Fitz can get Rove on some violations.

I fear him slipping thru on techicalities will enbolden his despicable tactics.

On Viveca Novak, she recently replied to a DUer stating she was not related to Bob and referred to him as "the dark prince" as I recall. Do you think she is another tool of the administration, as judith was?

[Laura PourMeADrink]

14. minor correction: the words "super secret" were Coopers...n/t

[H2O Man]

15. As noted,

the phrase was from Cooper's notes. The grand jury asked him about that choice of words; Cooper told them that Rove requested "deep background." (Time; 7-25-05; page 39) Both Cooper and Rove's choice of words indicate that Mr. Rove wanted to make sure his being Cooper's source would never come to light.

Cooper's notes also indicate that Rove was aware that he was passing on classified information. It seems like he took enough interest in the conversation that a reasonable person would question if he really forgot about it!

[H2O Man]

17. Shit.

Ray McGovern has an essay on TruthOut, saying that VP Cheney may retire soon .... I've been working on a Cheney article for the past 12 hours. Son of a gun!

[mod mom]

21. Retire? As in work his evil from the deep shadows?

[in_cog_ni_to]

25. Cheney RETIRE?! Who the hell would replace him?

Condi? Why is he retiring? So he won't be IMPEACHED? So he won't bring his scandal down on the idiot? Oh, of course, it's his health and he wants to spend more time with his family. :eyes:

[Stephanie]

26. You see! I told you that was why he bought the new estate in Maryland

He'll retire for "health" reasons, pending or just following his indictment.

[H2O Man]

27. Indeed

"health reasons" is the likely reason to be given.

[in_cog_ni_to]

7. AH...so KKKRove had ALREADY testified BEFORE Viveca

talked to Luskin. I see. So he initially LIED and AFTER Viveca had lunch with Luskin, KKKRove knew he needed to go back to the GJ to try to cover his ass? I was so confused listening to Olbermann and O'Donnell last night...I figured I was missing "something" important. :) That was....KKKRove had ALREADY lied to the GJ. Thanks for clearing that up. I wonder why O'Donnell thinks KKKRove's ass was saved by Viveca's lunch with Luskin? Weird. Also, won't Fitzgerald put 2 and 2 together and see WHY KKKRove "all of a sudden" remembered he had talked to Cooper? Isn't that why he called Viveca before the GJ? I don't see how this helps KKKRove either.

[Halliburton]

3. I don't think it's going to help Rove

according to the WAPO, there are discrepancies between Novak and Luskin's testimony. they both couldn't even get their stories straight.

www.firedoglake.blogspot.com

[KharmaTrain]

4. Muddy The Waters...Make It Tough To Indict

That appears to be Luskin's game. By throwing that last second, second Novak's name into the mess right before Fitz was going to indict Rove it forced Fitz to back off and thus the need for a second GJ. Luskin confused the issue sufficiently that Fitzgerald saw that if he indicted, he wouldn't have that sure case all prosecutors are supposed to have before they pass on an indictment. Fitzgerald split the difference...not letting Rove off the hook, but also not indicting pending finding out more about Novak and any others who may have heard rumors or been tipped off by this regime.

Throw in the distortion and games being played by Woodward to make it seem like the Plame name was all over town before it was leaked or that Rove wasn't the first person involved in this "telephone" game.

Luskin's playing with words...keeping Fitzgerald tied up and preventing the investigation from moving forward. I'm really hoping that Fitzgerald tires of this bullshit...finds inconsistencies in not only Rove's statements, but Novak's and Luskins and indicts them all for obstruction.

I heard Larry discuss this last night and I have to defer to his knowledge on this topic...and his contacts. He's been spot on to this point with his observations and reports.

[Skink]

5. Sure she'sm not an ex wife or something?

[KharmaTrain]

10. Nope..No Relation n/t

[H2O Man]

8. It may be

that soon people will see this as turning into a very positive thing.

[KharmaTrain]

11. From Your Keyboard, H2Oman...Please!!

I'm not quite square with Larry's take on this. I see Luskin playing a game of chicken here that could backfire and was strictly a delaying tactic so that Rove wasn't embarassed. Now look at all the spinning and games Rove and company have attempted to play since Fitzgerald passed down indictments to muddy things up...what I contend could be jury nullification.

Here's hoping Fitz is a lot smarter than all of us and is just giving these guys more rope to hang themselves. Kinda like a Colombo...who appears to be clueless but you know he's been keeping his eye on the ball all along. Nothing would be finer than a Rove indictment in '06...other than a DeLay conviction.

And this is just the tip of a very large and corrupt iceburg.

[H2O Man]

13. The question may be

less about if Fitzgerald can charge Rove with a similar cluster of offenses as he has Libby, or if a deal can be reached that could reduce or eliminate charges against Karl in order to get his cooperation in uncovering crimes in the VP's office.

I think Ms. Novak is a skunk. She interfered with an investigation in a very strange way, clearly in the context of an ally of the administration and in opposition to Fitzgerald.

Perhaps more important will be Fitzgerald's follow-up on the person who told another journalist/skunk, Bob Woodward. Not long ago, the corporate media was saying that no one really knew who had been Woodward's source, but often flashing Dick Armitage's photo on screen during the report. Strange, because Raw Story had what I believe was a very reliable source that identified Steve Hadley as Woodward's source. Hadley did not deny the report, but instead noted others had denied it. I am aware that the administration was not pleased that Hadley had been identified. In fact, there was a coordinated campaign to keep the identification of Hadley, another close aide of Dick Cheney, from being reported. And there is, of course, a reason for this!

[KharmaTrain]

16. I Hope Fitz Is Squeezing Upward

This is what he did in the Ryan trial here in Illinois. He was able to squeeze a lot of ex-cronies to turn on their boss. It took time since there was plenty of obstruction, but Fitzgerald has played things so close that it forces a target or anyone who gets in his sights to bend and then eventually break.

Yes...this Novak as well as Woodward are skunks. And, if anyone would know this, it's Fitzgerald. I think he's just being careful not to be overzealous. In many ways, indicting Libby separately has flushed out a bunch of skunks and falls along the divide and conquer game. We can speculate as to whom it is, but I think we both agree there have been one or several informants or "deep throats" to Fitzgerald that he's probably using as a hammer in private sessions. Right now this is a game of who can blink first...with Fitz staring down both Rove and Chenney and seeing who inbetween will blink or dance.

Honestly, if some of the names Raw Story and other sites have put out there are either cooperating or have spilled to Fitzgerald, Rove and Libby's testimony...while it'd be nice...wouldn't be needed. This may be Fitzgerald flushing out even more rats...as the machine that slimed Plame is still very much in operation now...and he's watching it work very closely. Or so is my hope.

Cheers...

:hi:

[H2O Man]

18. On the Hadley connection,

Raw Story has perhaps the single best resource. I note that Ray Mcgovern has a new article on Cheney on TruthOut .... hopefully someone will link it on DU ..... which is funny, as I've been working on one that I told another DU would be timed best if it came out today ....

[KharmaTrain]

20. I Haven't Seen Ray's latest...

I've been following this as well. Jane at Firedoglake is another great source. I haven't checked her out today.

I saw that Hadley non-denial and he reminds me of the Andy Card, Bartlett type...the foot soldiers who take the shit and do the dirty work. But I suspect they have their price...call me Pollyanna.

Please...if there's a link, I'd love to see it...definitely worth watching.

Cheers...

[KharmaTrain]

22. Looks Like Novak's Story Didn't Quite Jive...

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/12/9/101031/299

This was just posted...maybe you've seen it...

Sources familiar with their conversations say Novak's and Luskin's accounts to Fitzgerald appear to conflict on when they spoke.

. . . A source familiar with Novak's account said she believes the conversation took place in March or May, and definitely took place after February 2004, when Rove first testified before the grand jury.

But one person close to the case said the conversation took place before Rove's first grand jury appearance in February. This person said the conversation was not the event that led Rove to change his testimony

My goodness...


:popcorn:

[H2O Man]

29. Tighten your seat belt, Karl .....

your ride is going to get a little bumpy.

[okieinpain]

23. man, I wish clinton had a guardian angel, like rove did.

[johnfunk]

24. The big wrinkle: Rove's attorney Luskin was DEPOSED by Fitz last week

Could Luskin be a potential target along with Rove?

If so, will Rove now have to replace Luskin as his defense attorney?

How big are the discrepancies between the testimony of "Vivak" and Luskin?

Could it be that Fitz was meeting with the GJ a couple days ago to prepare indictments of Rove AND Luskin?

This isn't looking too good for Turd Blossom...

[H2O Man]

28. I have recoimmended this thread ....

and wish others would, too.

I also recommend that DUers watch the Sunday night "HardBall" special. I've got a feeling that we might hear something about the pre-war WMD lies that will remind us of things we have read on DU .... but that most Americans are only beginning to understand.

Also, I am sure that all DUers are sincere in feeling sad for Karl Rove, knowing that things went badly for him as far as Ms. Novak's testimony. Keep in mind Karl has testified at least three times to the grand jury. Was his attorney's chat with Ms. Novak happen between the 2nd and 3rd time? Or, the 1st and 2nd? It makes all the difference in the world. Kind of makes you wonder how often the attorney and the journalist actually spoke about the investigation, doesn't it?