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hiaasenrocks Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-02-05 10:31 AM
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More information in the "Tookie" Williams case. (very long)
For all of those considering joining in the effort to save "Tookie" Williams, I urge you to read the following document. (I apologize for any formatting problems in the post. I converted the text from a .pdf file for any readers who may not be able to pull it up.)

The original document (in .pdf format) is here:
http://www.lacountyda.org/pdf/swilliams.pdf

What follows below is only the text. The link above contains all of the information, including photographs of items in evidence at the trial and subsequent appeals.

I think this is important information to consider, and may address some of the myths of the Save Tookie movement.

Thank you for reading. Consider the evidence. Make up your own mind. Remember the victims.
Albert Owens, 26
Tsai-Shen Yang, 63
Yen-Yi Yang, 63
Ye-Chin Lin, 43
__________________________________

LOS ANGELES COUNTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY’S RESPONSE TO STANLEY WILLIAMS’
PETITION FOR EXECUTIVE CLEMENCY


November 16, 2005

STEVE COOLEY
DISTRICT ATTORNEY


PATRICK DIXON
HEAD DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY


JOHN MONAGHAN
ASSISTANT HEAD DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY


DAVID WALGREN
DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY


MAJOR CRIMES DIVISION
ATTORNEYS FOR THE PEOPLE



***

When one person kills another, there is
immediate revulsion at the nature of the
crime. But in a time so short as to seem
indecent to the members of the personal
family, the dead person ceases to exist as an
identifiable figure. To those individuals in
the community of good will and empathy,
warmth and compassion, only one of the key
actors in the drama remains with whom to
commiserate—and that is always the
criminal. The dead person ceases to be a
part of everyday reality, ceases to exist. She
is only a figure in a historic event. We
inevitably turn away from the past, toward
the ongoing reality. And the ongoing reality
is the criminal; trapped, anxious, now
helpless, isolated, often badgered and
bewildered. He usurps the compassion that
is justly his victim’s due. He will steal his
victim’s moral constituency along with her
life.

***

The Killing of Bonnie Garland, by Willard Gaylin


TABLE OF CONTENTS

I. INTRODUCTION................................................................................................... 1


II. 7-ELEVEN ROBBERY-MURDER.....................................................................1-4


III. BROOKHAVEN ROBBERY-MURDERS .........................................................4-7


IV. FIREARM EVIDENCE.....................................................................................7-10


V. CONSPIRACY TO ESCAPE FROM CUSTODY..........................................10-15


VI. STANLEY WILLIAMS’ TRIAL BEHAVIOR AND THREATS TO
JURORS...........................................................................................................16-17

VII. THERE IS OVERWHELMING EVIDENCE OF STANLEY
WILLIAMS’ GUILT........................................................................................17-22

A. LAYDUANE DOUGLAS ........................................................................ 18


B. JAMES GARRETT..............................................................................18-19


C. ESTER GARRETT ................................................................................... 19


D. ALFRED COWARD............................................................................19-20


E. JOHNNY GARCIA................................................................................... 20


F. ARMANDO DOMINGUEZ.....................................................................21


G. DALE COATES........................................................................................ 21


H. GEORGE OGLESBY ............................................................................... 22


VIII. TONY SIMS ....................................................................................................22-37


A. EXCERPTS FROM SIMS’ MARCH 23, 1979
STATEMENT OF HOMICIDE INVESTIGATORS ..........................23-31

B. EXCERPTS FROM TONY SIMS’ TESTIMONY
AT TRIAL........................................................................................... 31-32


TABLE OF CONTENTS

C. EXCERPTS FROM TONY SIMS’ TESTIMONY AT HIS
SUBSEQUENT PAROLE CONSIDERATION HEARING
July 17, 1997........................................................................................32-35

D. EXCERPTS FROM TONY SIMS’ TESTIMONY AT HIS
SUBSEQUENT PAROLE CONSIDERATION HEARING
July 24, 1997........................................................................................35-37

IX. POST-ARREST ADMISSION BY STANLEY WILLIAMS .........................37-38


X. STANLEY WILLIAMS’ DEFENSE AT TRIAL............................................38-39


A. FRED HOLIWELL ................................................................................... 38


B. EUGENE RILEY ...................................................................................... 39


C. JOSEPH MCFARLAND...........................................................................39


D. BEVERLY MCGOWAN..........................................................................39


XI. FOUNDER OF THE CRIPS STREET GANG................................................39-40


XII. PRISON BEHAVIOR-DISCIPLINE...............................................................40-41


XIII. PROCEDURAL HISTORY AND APPELLATE REVIEW...........................41-43


XIV. JURY PANEL..................................................................................................43-44


XV. WILLIAMS HAS NEVER TAKEN RESPONSIBILITY, HAS NEVER
APOLOGIZED, HAS NEVER SHOWN ANY REMORSE, AND HAS
NEVER AGREED TO BE DEBRIEFED BY PRISON AUTHORITIES.......44-45

XVI. REVIEW OF LETTERS OPPOSING CLEMENCY.......................................45-47


XVII. CONCLUSION................................................................................................48-50



I.
INTRODUCTION
On February 28, 1979, Stanley Williams murdered Albert Lewis Owens during a
robbery of a 7-Eleven convenience store. On March 11, 1979, Stanley Williams murdered
Tsai-Shai Yang, Yen-I Yang and Yee-Chen Lin during a robbery at their family run motel, the
Brookhaven. In March of 1981, a jury convicted Stanley Williams of the first-degree murder
and robbery of Albert Lewis Owens, the first-degree murders of Tsai-Shai Yang, Yen-I Yang
and Yee-Chen Lin, and the robbery of Tsai-Shai Yang.

The jury also found true the allegations that Williams personally used a shotgun during
the commission of each of the murders and robberies. Finally, the jury found true the special
circumstance allegations of robbery-murder and multiple murder.

On April 15, 1981, the trial court, following the jury’s recommendation, sentenced
Williams to death. On October 11, 2005, the United States Supreme Court denied Williams’
petition for writ of Certiorari. On October 24, 2005, Williams’ execution date was set for
December 13, 2005.

This cold-blooded killer, Stanley Williams, now seeks mercy, the very mercy he so
callously denied Albert, Tsai-Shai, Yen-I, and Yee-Chen. Stanley Williams does not deserve
this mercy. In fact, despite the overwhelming nature of the evidence against him, and despite the non-existence of any credible defense, Stanley Williams has steadfastly refused to take any responsibility for the brutal, destructive, and murderous acts he committed. Without such responsibility, there can be no redemption, there can be no atonement, and there should be no mercy.

For nearly 25 years, justice has been held in abeyance while Williams took advantage of
a legal system designed to protect his rights. His rights have been protected. It is now time for the victims’ voices to be heard. We ask that clemency be denied, and that the ultimate punishment, imposed so many years ago, now be fulfilled.

II.
7-ELEVEN ROBBERY-MURDER
Late on the evening of Tuesday, February 27, 1979, Stanley Williams introduced his
friend Alfred Coward, a.k.a. “Blackie,” to a man named Darryl. A short time later, Darryl,
driving a brown station wagon, drove Williams to the residence of James Garrett. Coward
followed in his 1969 Cadillac. (Trial Transcript (TT) 2095-2097). Stanley Williams often
stayed at the Garrett residence and kept some of his belongings there, including his shotgun.
(TT 1673, 1908).

Upon arriving at the Garrett residence, Williams went inside. (TT 2096). About ten
minutes later, Williams returned carrying a twelve-gauge shotgun. (TT 2097-2098). Darryl and Williams, with Coward following in his car, later drove to another residence, where they
obtained a PCP-laced cigarette, which the three men shared.

After sharing the PCP cigarette, Williams, Coward and Darryl went to the residence of
Tony Sims. (TT 2109). These four men then discussed where they could go in Pomona to
make some money. (TT 2111). The four men then went to yet another residence where they
smoked more PCP. (TT 2113-2116). While at this location, Williams left the other men for a
brief period of time. When he returned, he had a .22 caliber handgun, which he also put in the station wagon. (TT 2117-2118). Williams then told Coward, Darryl and Sims they should go
to Pomona. In response, Coward and Sims entered the Cadillac, Williams and Darryl entered
the station wagon, and both cars traveled on the freeway toward Pomona. (TT 2118-2119).

Some time later, the four men exited the freeway near Whittier Boulevard. (TT 2186).
They drove to a Stop-N-Go market and, at Williams’ direction, Darryl and Sims entered the
store to commit a robbery. At the time, Darryl was armed with the .22 caliber handgun
Williams had previously placed in the station wagon. (TT 2117-2218; Tony Sims’ Parole
Hearing Dated July 17, 1997).

The clerk at the Stop-N-Go market, Johnny Garcia, had just finished mopping the floor
when he observed a station wagon and four black men at the door to the market. (TT 20462048). Two of the men entered the market. (TT 2048). One of the men went down an aisle
while the other approached Garcia. The man that approached Garcia asked for a cigarette.
Garcia gave the man a cigarette and lit it for him. After approximately three to four minutes, both men left the market without carrying out the planned robbery. (TT 2049-2050). Williams became upset that Darryl and Sims did not commit the robbery. Williams told the men that they would find another place to rob. Williams said that at the next location all of them would go inside and he would show them how to commit a robbery. (Tony Sims’ Interview Dated March 23, 1979; Tony Sims’ Trial Testimony Dated April 14, 1981).

Coward and Sims then followed Williams and Darryl to the 7-Eleven market located at
10437 Whittier Boulevard. (TT 2186). The store clerk, twenty-six year old Albert Lewis
Owens, was sweeping the store parking lot. (TT 2146). When Darryl and Sims entered the 7Eleven, Owens put the broom and dust pan he was using on the hood of his car and followed
them into the store. Williams and Coward followed Owens into the store. (TT 2146-2152).

As Darryl and Sims walked to the counter area to take money from the register,
Williams walked behind Owens and told him “shut up and keep walking.” (TT 2154). While
pointing a shotgun at Owens’ back, Williams directed him to a back storage room. (TT 2154).
Once inside the storage room, Williams, at gunpoint, ordered Owens to “lay down, mother
fucker.” (TT 2160). Williams then chambered a round into the shotgun. (TT 2162). Williams
then fired the round into the security monitor. (TT 2156-2157, 2162). Williams then
chambered a second round and fired the round into Owens’ back as he lay face down on the
floor of the storage room. Williams then chambered a third round and fired again into Owens’
back. (TT 2162).

Both of the shotgun wounds that Williams inflicted on Owens were fatal. (TT 2086).
The pathologist who conducted the autopsy on Owens testified that the end of the barrel was
“very close” to Owens’ body when he was shot. (TT 2077). One of the two wounds was
described as “. . . a near contact wound.” (TT 2078).

After Williams murdered Owens, he, Darryl, Coward and Sims fled in the two cars and
returned home to Los Angeles. The robbery netted Williams and his associates approximately
$120.00. (TT 2280). Once back in Los Angeles, Williams asked if anyone wanted to get
something to eat. (TT 2178). When Sims asked Williams why he shot Owens, Williams said
he “didn’t want to leave any witnesses.” Williams also said he killed Owens “because he was
white and he was killing all white people.” (TT 2189, 2193).

Later that same day, Williams bragged to his brother Wayne about killing Owens.
Williams said, “you should have heard the way he sounded when I shot him.” Williams then
made gurgling or growling noises and laughed hysterically about Owens’ death. (TT 21952197).

III.
BROOKHAVEN ROBBERY-MURDERS
At approximately 5:00 a.m. on March 11, 1979, Stanley Williams entered the
Brookhaven Motel at 10411 South Vermont Avenue. (TT 1411). After entering the public
lobby area, Williams broke down the door that led to the private office. Once inside the private office, Williams, using his shotgun, killed seventy-six year old Yen-I Yang; Williams also killed Yang’s wife, sixty-three year old Tsai-Shai Yang; lastly, Williams killed Yang’s daughter, forty-three year old Yee-Chen Lin. Williams then removed the currency from the cash register and fled the location. (TT 1406-1442, 1562-1563, 1677-1720, 1915-1927).

Robert Yang was asleep with his wife in their bedroom at the Brookhaven Motel when
he was awakened by the sound of somebody breaking down the door to the motel’s office. This
sound was immediately followed by the sound of his mother or sister screaming, followed by
gun shots. (TT 1409, 1411, 1433). When Robert entered the motel office he found his mother,
his sister, and his father had all been shot. (TT 1412-1413). Robert observed that the cash
register was open and money was missing. (TT 1414). It was later determined that the robbery
of the Brookhaven Motel and the murder of the three members of the Yang family netted
Stanley Williams approximately one hundred dollars.

Robert Yang called 911. Two deputies from the Los Angeles County Sheriff’s
Department arrived within approximately ten minutes. (TT 1416). When the deputies entered
the motel they noticed a strong odor of gun powder. (TT 1500). The deputies observed that the door leading from the public entrance into Yang’s private living quarters had been forced open. The deputies observed the doorjamb was split open and the woodwork was torn away from the doorjamb. (TT 1508).

As they entered, they saw Yen-I Yang lying on a sofa. He was “soaked with blood,”
“gasping for air, and making gurgling noises.” (TT 1501). They also saw the bloodied body of
Tsai-Shai Yang. She was making “gurgling noises” and “gasping for air,” with “her knees
drawn up under her, and her face down on the floor,” as if she had been forced to bow down
before being killed. (TT 1502). Lastly, the deputies found the body of Yee-Chen Lin lying on
the hallway floor.

According to the forensic pathologist, Yen-I Yang suffered two shotgun wounds. One
shotgun wound was to his left arm and abdomen. This wound shredded Yen-I’s left arm,
fractured his ribs, and shattered his spleen, right kidney, bowel and large vessels. The other shotgun wound was to the lower left chest. This wound also fractured ribs and shattered the spleen, right kidney, bowel and large vessels. Moreover, a plastic shotgun shot container and associated wadding were recovered from the base of Yen-I’s liver. The pathologist further explained that both of the Yen-I Yang’s wounds were inflicted when the end of the muzzle was only feet from Yen-I’s body. Despite the severity of these wounds, Yen-I clung to life. He was transported from the scene by paramedics to Daniel Freeman Hospital where he died at 6:53 am.

Yee-Chen Lin was shot once in the upper left face area at a distance of a few feet.
Despite the truly horrific nature of the wound Stanley Williams inflicted upon her, Yee-Chen
also clung to life. She was transported from the scene by paramedics to Centinela Hospital
where she died at 7:36 a.m.

Tsai-Shai was shot twice at close range. The pathologist explained that one shotgun
wound was to the coccyx or tail bone. Based on the physical characteristics of the wound and
the fact that wadding, along with the plastic shot container, were recovered just beneath the skin of this wound, the muzzle of the gun must have been just inches from her body when she was shot and killed. (TT 1453). The other shotgun wound was to the anterior abdomen with the charge entering at the naval. At trial, the pathologist testified that the muzzle of the gun was a few feet from Tsai-Shai’s body when the shot that caused this wound was fired. (TT 1454).

IV.
FIREARM EVIDENCE
One expended twelve-gauge shotgun shell was recovered by investigators during the
crime scene investigation at the Brookhaven Motel. (TT 1506-1507). This expended shell was
received as exhibit 9E at trial. (TT 1514, 1862-1863, 2300).

During the course of investigating the Brookhaven Motel murders, investigators
recovered Williams’ shotgun. (TT 1479-1489, 1691, 1863-1864, 1871-1872). This shotgun, a
twelve-gauge High Standard slide-action shotgun bearing serial number 3194397, was received
into evidence as exhibit 8. (TT 1487). In addition, a federal “Firearms Transaction Record”
was received into evidence as exhibit 33. (TT 1483). This document records Williams’
purchase of the shotgun, trial exhibit 8, on February 25, 1974. Williams signed the transaction record and used his California driver’s license for identification purposes when he purchased the shotgun. At trial, a certified copy of Williams’ driver’s license was received as exhibit 32.
(TT 1485).

Trial Exhibit 33

At trial, a firearms expert testified that the expended twelve-gauge shotgun shell that
was recovered by investigators at the Brookhaven Motel, trial exhibit 9E, was fired from
Williams’ shotgun, trial exhibit 8, to the exclusion of all other firearms. (TT 1522-1523).

Two expended twelve-gauge shotgun shells were recovered by investigators during the
crime scene investigation at the 7-Eleven. (TT 1979-1980, 1984). These expended shells were
received as trial exhibits 9C and 9D. (TT 1982). Although these two shells lacked sufficient
identifying characteristics to be conclusively matched to Williams’ shotgun, the firearms expert testified that they were consistent with having been fired from that weapon. (TT 2301-2310). Moreover, the firearms expert did not find any dissimilarity that would exclude trial exhibits 9C and 9D from having been fired from Williams’ shotgun. (TT 2301-2310).

V.
CONSPIRACY TO ESCAPE FROM CUSTODY
In April, 1979, George Oglesby and Stanley Williams were housed together at the Los
Angeles County Jail. During that time, Williams approached Oglesby with an escape plan.
(TT 2398-2399). Initially, Williams asked Oglesby where Williams would be housed if he was
found to be insane. (TT 2398-2399). Oglesby told Williams that he (Williams) would either go
to Atascadero or Patton. Williams asked Oglesby if he had any knowledge about those
institutions. When Oglesby told Williams that he did have some knowledge about those
institutions, Williams began to inquire about his chances of escape. (TT 2399). Oglesby told
Williams that his chance of escaping from either institution was very poor. (TT 2399).

Later, Williams asked Oglesby if he wanted to participate in a foolproof escape plan.
Oglesby indicated he wanted to be included in the escape. (TT 2399). In later conversations,
Williams told Oglesby that he believed “the weak link” in the entire jail system was when
inmates were transported between jail and the courthouse. Williams told Oglesby that he could escape from custody while being transported to court. (TT 2399). Williams drew Oglesby a detailed diagram of the area surrounding the Torrance Courthouse and the path of travel the jail transportation bus took as it approached the courthouse to deliver inmates to court. This diagram was received as trial exhibit 73. (TT 2399-2400).


Trial Exhibit 73

According to Williams’ escape plan, two people from the outside would assist in the
plan. (TT 2400). These two people, who would be armed, would disarm and kill the first deputy to exit the bus. (TT 2400). Stanley Williams would then murder Alfred Coward
(“Blackie”) so as to eliminate the witness against him. Williams would also murder the other
deputy on the bus. (TT 2400-2401). Lastly, Williams planned on blowing up the bus and its
occupants with dynamite, in order to prevent the authorities from quickly discovering who had escaped. (TT 2403).

In a note, Williams wrote that a female had obtained a brand new shotgun for him. (TT
2402). This note was introduced at trial as exhibit 74.


Trial Exhibit 74

In another note written by Williams and given to Oglesby, Williams explained that he
now had dynamite and that the escape would thus happen much sooner than previously discussed. (TT 2403). This note was introduced as exhibit 75. Williams also wrote a note in
which he asked Oglesby if they should delay the escape until his (Williams’) brother was
released from jail so that his brother could assist in the escape. (TT 2404). This note was
introduced as exhibit 76. In still another note, Williams asked if they should escape at the next court appearance scheduled in three weeks, or try to be transferred to the jail hospital and
escape from there. (TT 2421). This note was introduced as exhibit 77.

In another note, Williams explained that Alfred Coward (“Blackie”) was a “heartbeat
away from death.” Williams told Oglesby that he was going to murder “Blackie” because
“Blackie” was a witness against him. (TT 2422). In this same note, Williams asked Oglesby
about “the weapons.” This note was introduced as exhibit 78 (left side). Lastly, Williams
wrote that his female accomplice had the new pump shotgun and that he (Williams) hoped that
Oglesby’s “woman has all the other weapons with the silencers.” (TT 2423). This note also
included specific instructions regarding the time of the escape, the day of the escape, the
location of the jail transport bus, and the number of deputies. This note was introduced as
exhibit 78 (right side).

VI.
STANLEY WILLIAMS’ TRIAL BEHAVIOR AND THREATS TO JURORS
On January 21, 1980, Stanley Williams, through his attorney Gerry Lenoir, made it clear
that he wished to replace Mr. Lenoir with his hand-picked attorney of choice, Joe Ingber. In
fact, Williams personally asked the trial judge for a continuance so that he could arrange for the hiring of Mr. Ingber. Williams, in addressing the court, stated, “Well, see, excuse me, your Honor. I’d like to move for a continuance at this time because the attorney of my choice, he’s at this moment downtown fighting a murder trial.” (TT A55-A56).

In response, the trial judge indicated that the next court date was months away, and that
if Williams wished to employ Mr. Ingber, the court would allow Williams to “change counsel.”
(TT A56). At the next court appearance, on April 18, 1980, that is exactly what transpired.
Stanley Williams asked that Gerry Lenoir be substituted out and that Joe Ingber be substituted in on his behalf. When the court asked Williams if that was his desire, Williams responded affirmatively. (TT A58). The court then granted Williams’ request, and Joe Ingber became the attorney of record. During the subsequent trial, Stanley Williams was represented by both Joe Ingber and his associate, Steven Ehrlich.

On March 13, 1981, the jury reached guilty verdicts on all counts, and found all the special allegations true. After the verdicts were read in open court, Williams spoke out to the jury, calling them “sons of bitches.” (TT 2886-U). He was later asked, outside the presence of the jury, if he would like to take advantage of his Constitutional right to testify in his own defense at the penalty phase (a right Williams chose not to take advantage of during the guilt phase). Williams’ response to this question was “hell no.” (TT 2988). Moreover, despite the trial judge urging Williams to present mitigating evidence during the penalty phase, Williams indicated he did not want to call any witnesses and did not want to present any evidence in mitigation. (TT 2988-2989, 2996). The following discussion was had among the trial judge, defense counsel, and Stanley Williams (TT 2996-2997):

INGBER: It’s the defendant’s desire that no one testify in his behalf in
this phase; and I acquiesce to the desires of the defendant. So
there will be no testimony called in this phase of the trial.

JUDGE: I would strongly urge that if there is any mitigating evidence,
and if it can be presented, that you would be inclined to do
that. But, of course, I realize the decision is yours. Are we to
proceed?

INGBER: Yes, Your Honor.

The court then turned to Williams and urged him to put on whatever mitigating evidence he
had.

JUDGE: Well, let me indicate, Mr. Williams, that I would strongly urge that if you have any testimony in mitigation that that be presented at this time. I realize the final decision has to be arrived at with you on the advice of counsel; and I suppose as to those matters counsel has the last word as to whether other mitigating evidence should be presented. So I want you to be aware that I’m recommending that you present any, if you have any. Have you had enough time, Mr. Williams, to discuss this matter with your lawyer?

WILLIAMS: (No response).

JUDGE: The record should reflect that the defendant remained mute in response to that inquiry.

It was subsequently discovered that the defendant threatened the jurors after the guilty
verdict was read. Specifically, the defendant looked at the jurors and said he “was going to get
all” of them. (TT 3072). After learning of this threat, the trial judge inquired of the jury
foreperson. The foreperson confirmed the defendant mouthed the words “I’m going to get each
and every one of you mother fuckers.” (TT 3078). The foreperson further confirmed that this
threat did not play any part in the deliberations and was, in fact, not discussed during the
penalty phase of the trial. (TT 3078).

VII.
THERE IS OVERWHELMING EVIDENCE OF STANLEY WILLIAMS’ GUILT
Counsel for Williams claims in the “Petition for Executive Clemency” that:

What the District Attorney may not acknowledge is the nature of the evidence against Stanley Williams, who has always asserted his innocence . . .he case rested on the testimony of claimed accomplices and admitted informants, including a notorious jailhouse informant, all of whom were facing substantial prison time and even death for various offenses, and all of whom received either freedom or vastly reduced sentences for their testimony. (Petition for Executive Clemency, Dated November 8, 2005, 9).

This statement is factually inaccurate. The People’s case rested on strong physical evidence, eyewitnesses, and a series of incriminating admissions made by Williams himself.
The following is a summary of some of the evidence in this case, as well as the witnesses that testified against Williams. It was this evidence that led the trial judge to deny the defense motion to dismiss, to deny the defense motion for a new trial, to affirm the jury’s verdict of death, and to finally conclude that the evidence:

Established highly aggravating circumstances in that the defendant
(Williams) shot gunned and killed three people in one robbery, and
a fourth person at the other robbery. The victims, who were
defenseless, and offered no resistance, were killed with blasts
from defendant’s shotgun for the purpose of preventing the
victims from ever being witnesses against the defendant These
four killings were deliberate, premeditated, and with malice
aforethought, as well as being robbery murders…the defendant
used force and violence against the four victims for its own
sake. (TT 3088-3089). .

A.
LAYDUANE DOUGLAS
In 1974, Layduane Douglas worked as the gun supervisor at Western Surplus. (TT
1478). As the gun supervisor, Mrs. Douglas was familiar with the record-keeping process
utilized at the store. (TT 1478-1487). Mrs. Douglas, through her testimony and through
documentation, proved that on February 25, 1974, Stanley Williams purchased the shotgun
used in these murders. (TT 1478-1489).

Despite Williams’ claims in his clemency petition, Douglas was not an accomplice, she
was not a jailhouse informant, she was not facing a lengthy prison term or death, and she was not granted freedom or a reduced sentence for her testimony. She was simply a citizen testifying to facts within the scope of her knowledge.

B.
JAMES GARRETT
In 1979, Stanley Williams lived with James Garrett. In fact, Williams typically stayed
there between 5 and 7 days a week. (TT 1673-1674). He also kept, among other things, his
shotgun at the residence. (TT 1673, 1691-1693). On March 13, 1979, just two days after the
Brookhaven motel murders, Williams asked Mr. Garrett if he had heard about the motel
murders. (TT 1675-1677). Williams went on to explain that some “Chinese people” or
“Buddhaheads” had been killed. (TT 1677-1678, 1720). Williams also stated that the murderer
must have been a professional because he picked up the shotgun shells and did not leave behind any witnesses. (TT 1678, 1687).

Williams later provided Mr. Garrett with even more details. Williams explained that a
big guy knocked down the door and “blew away” a guy on a couch (Mr. Yang), a woman near
the register (Mrs. Yang), and a third person who came out from behind (Ms. Lin). (TT 1682).
Eventually, Williams admitted he was the actual murderer. He stated, in referring to
committing a future robbery, he will “blow them away just like I blew them Buddhaheads away
on Vermont.” (TT 1720).

In addition to admitting his involvement in the Brookhaven murders, Williams also
admitted killing Albert Owens. Specifically, Williams told Mr. Garrett that he had used his
shotgun to blow away a white guy at a store, that Blackie (Alfred Coward) was with him, and
that Blackie was a “punk” because Blackie couldn’t eat after the murder. (TT 1688-1690).
Williams also told Mr. Garrett that he was considering killing Blackie. (TT 1689). Of course, this was subsequently corroborated by Williams’ jailhouse note where he indicated Blackie was a “heartbeat away from death.” (Trial Exh. 78).

James Garrett was not an accomplice, he was not a jailhouse informant, he was not
facing a lengthy prison term or death, and he was not granted freedom or a vastly reduced
sentence for his testimony. This is not to say Mr. Garrett had an unblemished past. At the time of trial, Mr. Garrett was facing sentencing for a violation of Penal Code § 496 (Receiving Stolen Property). This crime carried a sentence of either one year in county jail or a maximum sentence of three years in state prison. Mr. Garrett also had a pending extortion case. Clearly, Mr. Garrett was a criminal. However, it is a testament to the character and activities of Stanley Williams that the person with whom Williams chose to live was a criminal. It also explains why Williams was comfortable confiding in him. Williams, knowing Garrett to be a criminal, felt safe in telling Garrett about the murders. Finally, the jury heard all about the criminal activities of Mr. Garrett and still found Williams guilty of these four grisly murders.

C.
ESTER GARRETT
Ester Garrett was the wife of James Garrett. (TT 1899). She also participated in conversations with Williams regarding his involvement in these murders. Moreover, she
relayed these conversations to the jury. According to Mrs. Garrett, Williams told her he broke down the motel door with his shoulder, shot the lady by the register (Mrs. Yang), shot the man on the couch (Mr. Yang), and shot the lady coming through the door (Mrs. Lin). He described the victims as “Buddhaheads.” (TT 1915-1916, 1917, 1931).

Williams also told Mrs. Garrett that he killed some “white dude” for about $63.00 and
that Blackie (Coward) couldn’t handle it so he vomited. (TT 1917). Williams also stated that
he was concerned Blackie might talk to the police and, as a result, he (Williams) might kill
Blackie. (TT 1917).

Ester Garrett was not an accomplice, she was not a jailhouse informant, she was not
facing a lengthy prison term or death, and she was not granted freedom or a vastly reduced
sentence for her testimony. Like Mr. Garrett, she had previously been in trouble with the law. However, the jury was informed of this criminal past and still found Williams guilty of all four murders.

D.
ALFRED COWARD
Alfred Coward (Blackie) was with Stanley Williams the night Williams shot and killed
Albert Owens. (TT 2093-2164). Mr. Coward provided the jury with a detailed account of the events leading up to the murder of Mr. Owens. (TT 2093-2164). For example, Coward
described how Williams retrieved his shotgun and another gun earlier in the night. (TT 2098,
2117-2118). Mr. Coward described the vehicles used, namely a 1969 Cadillac and an old
brown station wagon. (TT 2097-2099). Mr. Coward explained that he, Williams, Tony Sims,
and a fourth man named Darryl, drove to the Stop-N-Go to commit a robbery, that Darryl
(wearing a corduroy jacket) and Sims (wearing a green jogging suit) entered the store but failed to complete the planned crime, and that all four men then drove to the 7-Eleven to make a new attempt. (TT 2093-2143, 2186).

Mr. Coward explained that when they arrived at the 7-Eleven, Mr. Owens was sweeping
the parking lot. (TT 2145-2147, 2186). The men exited their respective vehicles, at which time Williams put his shotgun to Mr. Owens and forced him into the back of the store. (TT 21452154). Coward described how Williams forced Owens to the floor, shot out the security
monitor, and then shot Owens twice in the back with the shotgun. (TT 2157-2164).

Mr. Coward also explained how Williams laughed about the murder of Albert Owens.
(TT 2195-2197). Specifically, Mr. Coward heard Williams say “you should have heard the way
he sounded when I shot him.” Williams followed this comment by making growling noises and
then laughing hysterically. (TT 2195-2197).

Albert Coward was an accomplice in this crime. He was with the three other
individuals during the time the weapons were gathered by Williams, and he drove his 1969
Cadillac to the various locations. Additionally, he entered the 7-Eleven along with the other men. Alfred Coward was given immunity. This grant of immunity, which was revealed to the jury, was granted to ensure the successful prosecution and conviction of the actual killer, Stanley Williams.

E.
JOHNNY GARCIA
In February 1979, Johnny Garcia worked the night shift at the Stop-N-Go. (TT 2046).
Mr. Garcia testified that on February 28, 1979, at approximately 4:00 a.m., he had just finished mopping the floors. (TT 2047). At that time, he saw four black males at the front door of the store. He also saw a station wagon in the parking lot. (TT 2047-2048). According to Mr. Garcia, two of the four men entered the store, walked around the store for a few minutes, asked for a cigarette and then left the store. Mr. Garcia described the two men as black males, with one wearing a green jogging suit and one wearing a brown coat. (TT 2048-2050).

Johnny Garcia was not an accomplice, he was not a jailhouse informant, he was not
facing a lengthy prison term or death, and he was not granted freedom or a vastly reduced
sentence for his testimony. Mr. Garcia, by all accounts, was a hard-working night teller at this convenience store. His testimony, although it did not directly link Williams to the plot, was notable in that it directly corroborated much of Alfred Coward’s testimony about being at the Stop-N-Go to commit a robbery, that one of the vehicles was a station wagon, and about the clothing worn by two of the men.

F.
ARMANDO DOMINGUEZ
On February 28, 1979, at approximately 4:30 a.m., Mr. Dominguez was driving to his
place of employment. As he drove along Whittier Boulevard, he passed the 7-Eleven. As he
did so, he noticed a station wagon in the parking lot, and two people standing at the counter area of the store. (TT 2051-2056).

Mr. Dominguez was not an accomplice, he was not a jailhouse informant, he was not
facing prison time or death, and he was not granted freedom or a reduced sentence for his
testimony. Like Johnny Garcia, he was an uninvolved citizen witness who was able to
corroborate some of the relevant facts testified to by Alfred Coward.

G.
DALE COATES
Dale Coates worked the night shift as a truck driver. On February 28, 1979, he drove
past the 7-Eleven on Whittier Boulevard sometime around 4:30 a.m. As he did so, he noticed
two cars in the parking lot. He remembered one of the cars was a light-colored car and the
other car was darker and longer. He also testified he saw a thin white male walking toward the store entrance, while being followed by two black males wearing three-quarter length jackets. As the white male walked, he looked over his shoulder at the two black males behind him. (TT
2058-2065).

With the testimony of Mr. Coates, the prosecution again corroborated statements made
by Alfred Coward. Mr. Coates corroborated the approximate time of the crime, he corroborated
the vehicles used, and he corroborated the sequence of events at the time Williams walked up
behind Mr. Owens and forced him into the store. Contrary to the claims made in Williams’
petition, Mr. Coates did this despite the fact he was not an accomplice, he was not a jailhouse informant, he was not facing a lengthy prison term or death, and he was not granted freedom or a reduced sentence for his testimony. Instead, he was a completely uninvolved citizen witness who was able to corroborate some of the relevant facts testified to by Alfred Coward.

H.
GEORGE OGLESBY
Although George Oglesby can be characterized as a jailhouse informant, the jury was
fully informed of this. In fact, defense counsel for Williams conducted a lengthy and
aggressive cross-examination of Mr. Oglesby on this very issue. Much of what George
Oglesby testified to, however, was corroborated by handwritten notes written by Stanley
Williams himself. Not only did George Oglesby identify these notes as being written by
Stanley Williams, but Deputy Matthews recognized the writing from having previously
received notes from Williams. (TT 2382). In addition, Stanley Williams personally handed a
note to Deputy Lichten that was subsequently used for comparison purposes. (TT 2535-2536,
2551). Herbert Campbell, a court-qualified handwriting expert, then compared the handwritten note passed to Deputy Lichten to the escape notes, and determined that all the notes were written by the same person. (TT 2548-2556).

VIII.
TONY SIMS
Tony Sims, like Alfred Coward, was an accomplice in the 7-Eleven robbery-murder.
However, Sims did not testify at Williams’ trial because he was not granted immunity. Sims
was separately prosecuted for his role in the 7-Eleven robbery-murder. Sims’ statement to
homicide investigators following his arrest, along with his sworn testimony over several
decades, not only corroborates the testimony of Alfred Coward offered at Stanley Williams’
trial, but further establishes, without question, Stanley Williams’ guilt.

Tony Sims was arrested on March 23, 1979, for his participation in the robbery of the 7Eleven that led to Albert Owens’ murder. After his arrest on March 23, 1979, Tony Sims spoke to homicide investigators. In that audio-taped interview, Tony Sims openly admitted his involvement and the role he played in the robbery leading up to the murder of Albert Owens. Moreover, Sims identified the other participants as Alfred Coward (Blackie), Darryl and Stanley Williams (Tookie), identifying Stanley Williams as the man who senselessly executed Albert Owens. (People’s Clemency Exhibit 1 (P. Exh. 1)).

Tony Sims was subsequently prosecuted for his role in Owens’ murder. At his trial,
Sims testified in his own defense. Under oath, Sims again identified Stanley Williams as
Owens’ killer. (P. Exh. 2).

Sims was convicted of the first-degree murder of Owens based on the felony murder
rule (a killing committed during the course of a robbery). Sims was also convicted of robbery. Additionally, the allegation that a principal was armed with a shotgun was found to be true and the special circumstance of robbery-murder was found to be true. At sentencing, the court specifically found “. . . that the defendant (Sims) was not the actual killer in the sense of handling the shotgun that caused the death of the victim in this case . . .”. On May 20, 1981 Sims was sentenced to life in prison without the possibility of parole, plus one year.

In 1982, the Second Appellate District struck the special circumstance finding of
robbery-murder against Sims, holding that there was no substantial evidence that Sims aided
and abetted the robbery of Owens with the intent that Owens be killed. Sims was subsequently
re-sentenced to an indeterminate term of life in prison.

At subsequent parole hearings, Sims, again under oath, has repeatedly identified Stanley
Williams as the man who shot-gunned Owens to death. (P. Exh. 3; P. Exh. 4). Tony Sims,
throughout the last 26 years, has never wavered in his identification of Stanley Williams as
Owens’ killer.

A.
EXCERPTS FROM SIMS’ STATEMENT TO HOMICIDE INVESTIGATORS DATED


MARCH 23, 1979 (P. Exh. 1)

INV: Uh, for the record, would you give us, uh, your full
name, please?

SIMS: Tony Lee Sims.

INV: And how old are you, Tony?
SIMS: 22.

INV: Now, we’ve talked here, uh, for a period of time prior
to turning the tape on. Prior to that conversation, uh, I
advised you of your rights; is that true?

SIMS: Yes.

INV: All right. Now, at that time, you waived your rights and
said that you wanted to talk to me; is that also true?

SIMS: Yes.

INV: I’m going to advise you of your rights again for
purposes of this tape. You have the right to remain
silent. Anything you say can and will be used against
you in a court of law. And you have the right to have an
attorney. You have a right to have an attorney present
before, or at any time, while you’re talking to us. If you
cannot afford an attorney, one will be appointed for
you, free of charge. Do you understand those rights,
Tony?

SIMS: Yes.

INV: Do you want to talk to us about this case?
SIMS: Yes.

INV: Do you want to talk to us about this case now, without
an attorney being present?

SIMS: Yes.

INV: Now, the particular incident that, uh, we want to talk to
you about is an incident that occurred on the -- during
the early morning hours of the 28th of February, 1979.
Which is approximately three weeks ago, uh, on a late
Tuesday night, or early Wednesday morning, uh, on an
occasion when you were with some other young men
and -- out on the east side of the county; do you recall
that incident?

SIMS: Yes.

INV: All right. What we would like you to do is tell us who
you were with that night.
SIMS: Alfred, Tookie, and -- and I don’t know the other
person’s name.

INV: Okay. How did the four of you happen to get together
on that particular night?

SIMS: Well, I was at home in the bed, getting ready to go to
court the next morning. And Alfred, Tookie, and
Darryl came by the house. Alfred came to the door,
and I went outside and we was talking. He ask me, did I
know any place to make some money at, and I said, no.
And, uh, Tookie and Darryl was in the car. And, uh, I
asked him, “Do you know where to get somethin’ to
smoke at?” said “yeah.” So we went to get some smoke.
And while we was in the car, uh, Tookie said he
wanted to stop by one of his friends’ house so he can
get a gun, another gun, cause he needs another gun.

INV: Another gun?
SIMS: Uh-huh.

INV: By “another gun”, you mean he already had one gun
with him?
SIMS: A shotgun.

INV: Did you see the shotgun?
SIMS: Yeah.

INV: All right. And he wanted to get another gun?
SIMS: Uh-huh.

INV: Who was he gonna get that gun for?
SIMS: For Darryl.

INV: All right. Did you go to another house?
SIMS: Yes.

INV: Where was the house located?
SIMS: Oh, uh, on 111th. I don’t know the name of the street, I
know it was a block off of Western.

INV: On a 111th? A block off of Western?
SIMS: Uh-huh.

INV: Did you go into that house?

SIMS: No. We went in the backyard. Tookie wanted to see his
dog, he had a dog over there.

SIMS: Uh-huh. And so we got in his car --I mean, Tookie and
Darryl got in they car, and me and Alfred was in his
car. So we was following them. And Tookie wanted to
go by somebody else’s house, go get another gun. So
we went on 111th right off of Western, right off of
Normandie.

INV: 111th and Normandie?

SIMS: Yeah. To get another gun. And Tookie said he had a
dog in the backyard, and he wanted us to see it. So we
got out and we went in the backyard and seen the dog.
And so then we went across the fence to another one
Tookie friends’ house. And smoking on some Sherman,
and then we left from there. And -- and Tookie and
Darryl told me and Blacky to follow them, you know,
just in case somebody get behind them then we can
block ‘em off. And, uh, so we followed them and got on
the freeway and went out, I don’t know where we was.
I don’t know where we ended up to. But, anyway, we
went out there –

INV: You know what freeway you took?

SIMS: He took the, uh, think it was the Pomona Freeway -
think was the San Bernardino Freeway.

INV: And you went east?
SIMS: Yeah.

INV: Do you know -- did you get on another freeway after
you’d gone east a-way?

SIMS: I think we got on the Pomona Freeway after went east
a-ways.

INV: At some point did you get off the freeway?
SIMS: Yeah.

INV: Do you know what street you got off on?
SIMS: No, I don’t know what street we got off on.

INV: Okay. What happened after you got off the freeway?

SIMS: Well, we was riding around, and was following them.
And they stopped at a -- a stop-and-Go -- No. First,
they stopped at one store, and I got out and went in the
store and got me some cigarettes and some bubble gum.
Then we left from that one. And we was riding, and
they stopped at, uh, Stop-and-Go, and uh, me and
Darryl went in, and they was supposed to -- Blacky and
Tookie was suppose to come in after me and Darryl had
went in. I walked to the back, and Darryl was at the
front of the store. And I walked back from the back
cause there was somebody in there, and just walked out
the door and got back the car with, uh, Blacky. And
then we left.

INV: Okay. When you walked out of the store, then did
Darryl also come out?

SIMS: Yeah, he came out behind me.

INV: Did he buy anything?
SIMS: No, he didn’t buy nothing.

INV: Okay. So now, when you got back to the car, what
happened?

SIMS: Uh, I walked over to, uh, Alfred’s car and got in and
told him that it wasn’t cool. And, uh, Darryl walked
back to his car. And Tookie was sitting in the car. And
so we pulled off, and uh, we was riding down the street,
and Tookie kept saying, “we got to do somethin’. We
got to do somethin’.”

INV: How do you know Tookie is saying this if you’re in the
other car with Alfred?

SIMS: Because we was riding on the side of each other, I
mean, you know, we was behind him and, you know,
like somebody roll down they window and put out --
stick out they hand and tell you to come over to the
side.

INV: Oh, I see, and then he would tell you, “we got to do
somethin’.”?

SIMS: Yeah. And, uh, pulled on the side, and then we pulled
up in a parking lot. We had passed the 7-11 store, and
we pulled up in the parking lot.

SIMS: We had passed the 7-11 store, we was down the
street from the 7-11 store. And pulled up in the
parking lot, and Tookie kept saying, “we got to do
somethin’. We got to do somethin’. Just fuck it, we just go on back and just do this, uh, uh, 7-11 Store.” So I was telling Alfred, you know, “I --I don’t want it,”
you know, “I don’t want to rob no store. I don’t,” you
know, “I don’t want to do nothing, really.” And so we
pulled back and parked on the street in front of the 7-11
store. And I kind of think Blacky was thinking about
what I was saying not doing nothing, you know. And
he was trying to tell Tookie uh, that, uh, “No, we
don’t want to do nothing.” And Tookie kept
hollering at him, “just do what I say. Just do what I
say.” Like that. And Blacky just saying, “All right,
man, all right.” Like that. And so, uh, he said, “Now,
this how we gonna do it. We all gonna go in the store,
and me and Blacky is gonna take the dude in the back
and, uh, you and “whatever the other dude name is. -
And, uh, he say, we --“We all gonna go in the store
together.” So we, uh, goes to the 7-11, and, uh, the dude
was standing outside sweeping up. And, uh, Darryl
asked him -- He wanted to buy some cigarettes, the
dude said, “All right.” So he went in, and we all went in
behind him. And he went behind the counter --

SIMS: He could of been kind of tall, I don’t know, I really
wasn’t paying attention. But, anyway, uh, he was
behind the counter, and he was getting the cigarettes.
And Darryl -- Wait, wait. Okay. We all went in, and he
was behind the counter. And Tookie and Blacky, as
soon as they walked in the door, they walk straight to
the back room. And Darryl told him -- pulled the gun
out and told the dude to go in the back room.

INV: Darryl pulled the .22 out?
SIMS: Yeah.

INV: He pulled his revolver out?

SIMS: I don’t -- Did he pull it out? I guess he did pull it out,
and told the dude to go in the back room.

INV: Then what happened?

SIMS: And then he walked around and, I guess, he got the
money and the cigarettes. And then, uh, I was standing
by the door looking at Darryl, and, uh, I heard one shot.

INV: What was Darryl doing when you were looking at
him?

SIMS: He was getting the money out of the cash register.
And -- he was getting the money out of the cash
register, then, when the shot went off. And then, uh,
I heard one shot, and Blacky came running from out
the back and said, “Tookie done shot this guy.” Like
that. And I said, “oh, no. So let’s go.” You know. And
as we was running out the door, I heard two more shots.
And so, uh, then Blacky got in the car, and uh, pulled
off. And Tookie, them was behind us, and so we let
them catch up with us.

INV: Let’s go back for a second, when you got to the door to
leave there, did you see Tookie coming out of the back
room?

SIMS: Well, uh, when I got -- when -- okay. When I heard
the first shot, Blacky came from out of the back,
okay. As Blacky was coming out from the back,
there was two more shots. And as we was going out
the door, I looked back and I seen Tookie coming
from the back with the shotgun under his coat.

SIMS: Yeah. And we was getting in the car, me and Blacky
was getting in the car, in his car. And uh –

INV: By the way, what kind of car does Blacky have?
SIMS: A ’69 Cadillac.

INV: What color is that?
SIMS: Uh, brown with a black top.


INV: Okay.

SIMS: Don’t think he have it no more, though, I don’t think so.
And, uh, after that, uh, we got in the car. And, uh,
Tookie and Darryl came out the door and they got in
the car. And me and Blacky was pulling off. And we
was pulling off, and then we let them catch up with us.
And Tookie kept hollering, well -- cause we didn’t have
no gas, we didn’t have enough gas to make it back
home. And so Tookie said, “Well, let’s go to the gas
station right now.” So we goes to the gas station, and –

INV: Now, how did you get to the gas station?
SIMS: We drove to the gas station.

INV: Did you have some conversations while you were at the
gas station?

SIMS: Yeah. I went over to, uh, to the station wagon, and I
asked him, was -- I asked Tookie, I said, “What you
do?” He say, “I killed him,” like that. And I say,
“Why you kill him?” He say, uh, “So it wouldn’t be
no evidence.”

INV: So there wouldn’t be any evidence?

SIMS: Yeah, somethin’. He said somethin’ like that. And so I
said, uh, -- I didn’t say nothing else to him. And he kept
saying, “Well, we” --“we gonna do something else.”
You know, do somethin’ else. I say, “No, uh-uh.” I say,
“I can’t do nothing. I’m not doing nothing cause I got to
go to court in the morning.”

INV: All right. Since this thing has happened, since this has
gone down, have you discussed with any of the people
that were involved in it what happened that night?

SIMS: Nobody but Alfred.

INV: What did Alfred think about what happened?
SIMS: The same thing I think about it.

INV: What do you think about it?
SIMS: Stupid, it’s dumb.

INV: Did you think there was any reason why he had to
kill that boy?

SIMS: No.

INV: Have you ever been with him when he killed anybody
else?

SIMS: No.

INV: Did you know when you went into that market with him
that he was gonna kill somebody?

SIMS: No.

INV: If you had known that he was gonna kill that guy,
would you have gone in the market with him?

SIMS: No.

INV: Do you think Alfred would?
SIMS: I don’t think so.

INV: Was Alfred kind of afraid of him?

SIMS: I think he is, the way Tookie was talking to him -- Cause
I had told Alfred that we sh -- just go on book up, and
Alfred -

INV: Changed sides on the tape. Okay, go ahead.

SIMS: Then he was kind of like me, he didn’t want to do
nothing. And so he was -- he -- okay. Like I say, when
we first went to the 7-11, uh I tell – I had told Alfred, I
said, “No, man, we shouldn’t do this.” You know, like
that. He say, “Yeah, I hear you.” And he -- He was
starting to tell Tookie somethin’ And I guess Tookie was
kind of saying that he was kind of, you know trying to
cheese up or whatever, you know, didn’t want to do it.

So Tookie started hollering at him, you know, saying,
“Just do what I tell you. Just do what I tell you.” And
Blacky say, “All right, man, all right.” just like that.

INV: So Tookie has the shotgun, right?
SIMS: Yeah.

INV: Did you expect that we would be looking for you for this
thing?

SIMS: Well, uh, after Tookie had told us that he had shot
out the camera, then I didn’t know, you know.

INV: He told you he shot out the camera?
SIMS: Uh-huh.

INV: So he said he shot the guy twice, and he shot the
camera?
SIMS: Uh-huh.

INV: So then, you figured maybe you were away clean?
SIMS: Well, I didn’t think nobody, you know, would know
about it, like that, unless somebody said somethin’.

INV: That, uh --

SIMS: I knew, you know, like if the camera had took a picture
of us, then I know that, uh, it wasn’t no way we was
gonna get away with it.

INV: What does that shotgun look like of Tookies?
SIMS: It was pump and didn’t have no end.

INV: The stock was cut off?
SIMS: Yeah.

INV: Is there anything around the area where the stock was
cut off?

SIMS: I don’t know. I think it had tape behind -- around it,
though. .

B.
EXCERPTS FROM TONY SIMS’ TESTIMONY AT HIS TRIAL DATED
APRIL 14, 1981 (P. Exh. 2)



BROADY: Now, going on, sir, to the 7-Eleven market, do you recall the
position of the cars before they parked on the 7-Eleven
parking lot?

SIMS: Yes.

BROADY: And where was Alfred’s car parked?

SIMS: It was parked on the side street. Alfred’s car was facing the
7-Eleven, and Darryl and Stanley’s car was going - - facing
the other way. (Sims 166)

BROADY: Did Stanley Williams say anything to Alfred in your presence
before you went inside that store?

SIMS: I told Alfred that I didn’t want to go in the store, and I told
him to tell Stanley that we wasn’t going in the store. So when
Stanley came over to the car, I guess Alfred was getting ready
to tell him, and Stanley said, “Well, just do what I say; I’m
calling the shots. Just do what I say. We’re all going in the
store.”

BROADY: Did you interpret those words, with your state of mind,
that Stanley was talking to you?

SIMS: Yes.

BROADY: And did you do what he said? Did you go inside the
store?

SIMS: Yes.

BROADY: Why did you go inside?
SIMS: Because I was scared of him.

BROADY: Scared of who?
SIMS: Stanley.

BROADY: Why were you afraid of Stanley?
SIMS: Because of the type of person he is.

BROADY: What do you mean by that, sir?

SIMS: Violent.

BROADY: Well, violent; what do you mean by violent? Why were
you afraid of him?
SIMS: Because I knew if I wouldn’t have went in the store, he
probably would have did something to me.

BROADY: Like what?
SIMS: Like killed me or something. (Sims 167, 168)


When Sims was asked by his attorney if all four – Williams, Coward, Darryl
and Sims – went into the 7-Eleven, Sims testified:

SIMS: Well, we was all four in the store, but me and Darryl went in
the store first. As soon as Darryl went in the store, he
jumped over the cash register, and I was standing in between
the cash register and the front door, and –

BROADY: Did you and Darryl and Stanley and Alfred go in together?
or was it like Alfred said, you two went in first?
SIMS: Me and Darryl went in first and they came in behind us.
(Sims, 168,169)

BROADY: Did you hear any shots?

SIMS: Yes.

BROADY: Where did the shots appear to come from?

SIMS: From the back room. (Sims, 169)

C.
EXCERPTS FROM TONY SIMS’ TESTIMONY AT HIS
SUBSEQUENT PAROLE CONSIDERATION HEARING
JULY 17, 1997 (P. Exh. 3)
Tony Sims had a subsequent parole consideration hearing on July 17, 1997. The
following are excerpts from that tape recorded hearing:

CO: All right, thank you. At this time, Mr. Stanton, will your
client be speaking with us today?

STANTON: Yes, he will.

CO: Please raise your right hand. Do you solemnly swear or
affirm that in the hearing now pending you will tell the
truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?

SIMS: I do.

CO: All right. This is not first time you’ve gone through this, Mr.
Sims, so there’s no need to rehash the case. Very basically,
just as an overview, you and three friends were driving
around looking for some place to rob. Ultimately, you went
into a 7-11 market, a little 7-11store. At which time, I
believe, two of your crime partners had taken the victim into
another part of the store.

SIMS: Yes.

CO: You were at the front counter, I believe, with, with Mr.
Cowert (phonetic). Was that who you were with?

SIMS: No, Mr., oh, I think --

CO: You were with somebody named Darryl (phonetic)?
SIMS: Darryl. Darryl was at the counter. I was at the front door.

CO: Okay. Suddenly, you hear a gunshot blast. You hear glass
breaking. And what you find out later is that, it must have
been Mr. Cowert and Mr. Williams (phonetic) --

SIMS: Yes.

CO: -- had, had executed the store clerk, is that right?
SIMS: Yes.

CO: Is that pretty much the way it was?
SIMS: Yes.

CO: Okay. How did you get involved in this thing? In reading the
report, in reading part of it, it sounds like you were a bit afraid
of Mr. Williams.

SIMS: Yes, Mr. Williams was the, was the person that led the
neighborhood, that everybody looked up to and scared of. He
was (inaudible)

CO: It appears that in this instance Mr. Williams had a .22
caliber revolver?

SIMS: No, he had a shotgun, a sawed-off shotgun.

CO: Okay, it says in the report, it says “They stopped at
another location where Williams obtained a .22 caliber
revolver and Williams then gave that to Darryl”.

SIMS: Yes, he did.

CO: Okay. Where did the shotgun come from?

SIMS: At one point, Williams, I mean, yeah, Williams asked Cowert
to take him to get his car. At that point I think is when he got
the shotgun. I didn’t see the shotgun until we got to the store.
I didn’t know that he had the shotgun until (inaudible).

CO: You were in two separate cars?
SIMS: Yes, we was.

CO: Okay, and you were with who? You were with Mr. Cowert?
SIMS: I was with Mr. Cowert.

CO: Okay, and Mr. Williams and the other gentleman who was
Darryl?

SIMS: Darryl, yes.

CO: They were in a different car?
SIMS: Yes. At first we was all in the same car.


CO: Okay, so then you, they went in the store. They shotgunned
this man to death, and you left then. What happened after you
left?

SIMS: We went in the store through the orders of Stanley. First
we had went into another store, and I tried to use the
excuse I could to get out of the robbery because I didn’t
want to rob the store in the first place. The second store
we went to, which was the 7-11, we parked on the side of
the street which was the first time I seen Stanley with the
shotgun. He took it out to put up under his overcoat, and
he came over. I had asked Mr. Cowert to tell Stanley that
I didn’t want to go in the store because he was more
familiar with him. And at this time Mr. Williams made a
statement that we was all going in the store. And we
pulled in the parking lot of the 7-11, and Mr. Owens
(phonetic) was outside sweeping. And Mr. Williams and
Mr. Cowert told him to go in the store, and they walked
him to the back. I stood by the front door and Darryl was
getting money of the cash register. I heard a shot, and I
turned around to go out the front door, and I looked
behind, and Alfred was coming from the back room, and I
asked him what happened, and he told me that Stanley
has shot the clerk. I went out the door, and we got in the
car, and they got in the car, and Stanley was driving his
car. He pulled up on the side of us and told us that he
needs to go to, excuse me, to the gas station and get some
gas. We got on the freeway. We got off the freeway,
pulled up in the gas station, and I asked him what happened, and he said that he had shot the clerk. And I asked him why, and he said because he didn’t want to
leave no witnesses. At that time I told Alfred to take me
home because they wanted to rob something else.

CO: To your knowledge did they ever go out and rob something
else?
SIMS: I don’t know. .

D.
EXCERPTS FROM TONY SIMS’ TESTIMONY AT HIS
SUBSEQUENT PAROLE CONSIDERATION HEARING
JULY 24, 2002 (P. Exh. 4)
Tony Sims had a subsequent parole consideration hearing on July 24, 2002. The

following are excerpts from that tape recorded hearing:
Commissioner Rodriguez (DCR)]

CA: Will the inmate be speaking with us today?

SIMS: Yes, yes.

CA: All right. Then Mr. Sims, would you please raise your
right hand to be sworn. Do you solemnly swear or affirm
that the testimony you give in today’s hearing will be the
truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth?

SIMS: Yes, I do.

CA: Mr. Sims, you are serving a prison term, convicted by court
trial, and a conviction with which withstood an appeal, for the
murder of one Albert Owens at the 7-11 Market. Is that
correct?

SIMS: Yes.

CA: Okay. You and, ultimately, three other individuals, wound up
committing this robbery. Apparently, a Mr. Coward, C-O-WA-R-D, came over to your house and asked you if you knew
anybody, of any place to rob. You said no. And you guys,
you got to talking and wound up picking up two other guys.
That’s Mr. Williams and a guy by the name of Darryl.
Correct?

SIMS: Yes.

CA: You wound up going in two separate cars. Okay. You
were with Mr. Coward and Williams was with Darryl.
You made a couple of stops at a couple of places, decided
not to rob them for some reason.

SIMS: Yes.

CA: Going to the last place, which was the 7-11 Market, and
the clerk was a Mr. Albert Owens. Apparently, Mr.
Williams took the clerk back to the back room and made
him lie down on the floo
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On the Road Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-02-05 11:16 AM
Response to Original message
1. I Can See Commuting His Sentence to Life without Parole
That would seem appropriate for someone who turned his life around on his own. But you can't simply set people free after they commit premeditated murder.
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okieinpain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-02-05 01:19 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. no he should be set free, he should be set free to meet his maker
I just don't understand how folks can have mercy for someone like this. I just don't get it.
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hiaasenrocks Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-02-05 01:40 PM
Response to Reply #6
12. I'm not sure what their motive is, either.
I think (and this is just my opinion) it has to do with the attention being paid to this case by celebs. That may be partially responsible for some of the Tookie groupies.
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okieinpain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-02-05 02:33 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. the prison groupie deal I do not understand. I have two relatives in
prison, and one is particularly horny, he even upset his daughter that went to visit him in prison. because the other inmates were egging him on about having a pretty female visitor and he did not inform them that it was his daughter. she said that he was cheesing and grinning like she was his girlfriend, needless to say she cut her visit short.

but both of my relatives are constantly getting email from females on the pen pal prison list. the horny one is always wanting my wife (his sister) to make contact with the women to pass on messages, and see what they look like. My wife loves her brother, but sometimes she wonders if he should get out.
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MrSlayer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-02-05 06:50 PM
Response to Reply #1
17. Williams then made gurgling sounds,laughed hysterically about Owens’ death
Such a great man. I can't imagine why anyone would want to save this piece of shit. The guy is a phony in every sense of the word, only trying to save his own skin with this bullshit "transformation". Why people fall for this crap is beyond me. He deserves what he gave his victims.
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hiaasenrocks Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-05 01:08 AM
Response to Reply #17
34. Sickening, isn't it?
Points like that are willfully ignored by the Tookie Groupies.

They ignore the facts of the trial. I've posted it here many times. All I get in return is cries of racism and unfairness.
:puke:

They have totally fallen for the PR stunts of this brutal murderer. Sickening.
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MrSlayer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-05 03:02 AM
Response to Reply #34
35. It is. I wonder when the Joseph Smith bandwagon starts.
You know, this cocksucker. I hope we don't have to wait 20 years to have the debate on him, this guy should be dead now.
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hiaasenrocks Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-05 01:47 AM
Response to Reply #35
38. It won't be long....
soon these people will be clamoring to save this guy's life. Disgusting.
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-02-05 11:27 AM
Response to Original message
2. Most people who think rationally
instead of reacting with their gut, have considered the nature of the crimes that Williams has been convicted of.

Most have also considered the overwhelming evidence of the benefits to that the man's anti-gang efforts have brought- and want to see them continued, so that other victims'(and potential perpetrators') families won't have to suffer.

On balance, the arguments for the death penalty in this case amount to little more than a single minded call for vengence at all costs.



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hiaasenrocks Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-02-05 11:31 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. I think lately there has been a problem
around here with misinformation coming from the Save Tookie side. My post was an effort to present more information to people so any undecideds can make up their mind with more data.
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okieinpain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-02-05 01:23 PM
Response to Reply #2
7. and I'm all for vengeance. I don't have a problem with it. one of the
reason's the death penalty really has no effect on people is that it takes so long for the punishment to be carried out. and also people end up making these guy's out to be hero's.

I'm glad mr. williams turned his life around and has tried to contribute to society. but he knew what he was doing in 79, and he knew it was wrong that's why he tried to cover it up.

I'm not trying to offend anyone around here, but this guy needs to go.
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-02-05 12:13 PM
Response to Original message
4. I have a couple questions, off the top of my head.
Garret testified that Williams had talked about the Brookhaven murders he had heard about, and Williams said that the killer was smart because he picked up the shotgun shells.

But the police identified Williams' weapon as the murder weapon based on one recovered shell, and claimed two more which were inconclusive were recovered from the 7-11. That seem to be the extent of their physical evidence.

If Williams was the killer, and had been boasting about being smart, where did the shells come from? And if he hadn't picked up the shells, why would he have said so in his boasting?

It seems the only real witnesses were participants - the couple of people who caught glimpses of the crimes were far enough away that they could only say they saw "two black men" with the clerk. No ID.

The one witness who did not get a deal cut got life in prison. Why did he not get the DP also, as a fully participating partner in the crime? Maybe an under-the-table deal to keep him alive so they could nail the more 'important' criminal?

What was the chain of evidence that led to Williams in the first place? There's no mention of how he and his crew were identified as the perpetrators.

A piece of fiction with this many holes would never find a publisher.
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hiaasenrocks Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-02-05 12:58 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. I'll address these as best I can.
Edited on Fri Dec-02-05 12:59 PM by hiaasenrocks
Garret testified that Williams had talked about the Brookhaven murders he had heard about, and Williams said that the killer was smart because he picked up the shotgun shells.

But the police identified Williams' weapon as the murder weapon based on one recovered shell, and claimed two more which were inconclusive were recovered from the 7-11. That seem to be the extent of their physical evidence.


It may be true that there was only one shell that conclusively tied Williams to the shooting. Remember also the evidence of his having purchased that weapon. One shell is good enough, considering the science, which, by the way, has been reviewed in numerous appeals in various courts since the conviction

If Williams was the killer, and had been boasting about being smart, where did the shells come from? And if he hadn't picked up the shells, why would he have said so in his boasting?

Why would a criminal boast about something that isn't true? I think your question answers itself. Who cares if he SAID he picked up the shells. There were shells at the scene, and that's part of what tied him to the crime.

The one witness who did not get a deal cut got life in prison. Why did he not get the DP also, as a fully participating partner in the crime? Maybe an under-the-table deal to keep him alive so they could nail the more 'important' criminal?

Happens all the time. Deals are cut with the small-timers so they can give up the bigger fish. Defendant Williams is the big fish in this case.

Those are the answers I know off the top of my head. I will try to find more information on your concerns and I'll post them when/if I get that info.

And, please remember, all of this has been examined by other courts since the conviction (below). Does anyone have information about how these courts were part of the conspiracy to convict this defendant? Or how all of these courts were incompetent in their findings?

PROCEDURAL HISTORY AND APPELLATE REVIEW
To date, Stanley Williams’ case has received extensive legal scrutiny in both state and federal court. Since his conviction in 1981, Williams has pursued multiple appeals and habeas corpus petitions. In each and every instance, in both state and federal court, his conviction has been affirmed as appropriate and just.

• On April 18, 1980, the trial court granted Williams’ motion to substitute his hand-picked attorney, Joseph Ingber, as attorney of record in place of Gerald Lenoir.
• On January 21, 1981, the jury trial commenced and on March 13, 1981, the jury returned guilty verdicts of four counts of first degree murder and two counts of robbery. The jury also found the special circumstance allegations of robbery-murder and multiple murder to be true. Lastly, the jury found true the special allegations that defendant Williams personally used a shotgun and that a principal was armed with a firearm.
• On March 17, 1981, both parties having rested without presenting evidence at the penalty phase, argument was presented on behalf of the People and defendant Williams as to whether the penalty should be death or life imprisonment without possibility of parole. Following arguments and instructions of law by the Court on this issue, the jury, on March 18, 1981, returned a verdict of death as to each of the charged first-degree murders.
• On April 15, 1981, defendant Williams’ motions for a new trial and for modification of the verdict and findings imposing the death penalty were heard by the Court and denied. The trial court then sentenced Williams to death on counts 1, 2, 3 and 7.
• On April 11, 1988, on automatic appeal to the California Supreme Court, in the cases of People v. Stanley Williams, Crim. No. 21977, and In re Stanley Williams, Crim. No. 23806, consolidated under Case No. S004365, and published at (1988) 44 Cal.3d 1127, the imposition of the death penalty was affirmed and defendant Williams’ first habeas petition was denied following an evidentiary hearing.
• On January 18, 1989, the California Supreme Court denied defendant Williams’ second state habeas petition in Case No. S008526.
• On that same date, January 18, 1988, defendant Williams filed his first federal habeas petition in the United States District Court in Case No. CV89-00327SVW. The district court held that petition in abeyance while defendant Williams returned to the California Supreme Court with his unexhausted claims.
• On April 11, 1994, following another evidentiary hearing, the California Supreme Court denied defendant Williams’ third state habeas petition in Case No. S011868, published at (1994) 7 Cal.4th 572.
• On June 21, 1995, the California Supreme Court denied defendant Williams’ fourth state habeas petition in Case No. S039285.
• On December 21, 1988, defendant Williams returned to federal court and, following an evidentiary hearing, the United States District Court denied defendant Williams’ amended habeas petition in Case No. CV89-00327-SVW, and published its order at (1998) 41 F.Supp.2d 1043.
• On December 17, 1999, defendant Williams’ subsequent Rule 60(b) motion to reopen the judgment was denied, and the order was published at (1999) 1999 WL 1320903.
• On September 10, 2002, the United States Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit denied defendant Williams’ direct appeal and Rule 6 (b) motion in Case Nos. 99-99018 and 00-99001, published at (2002)306 F.3d 665.
• On September 9, 2004, the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals amended the opinion and denied defendant Williams’ petition for rehearing and suggestion for rehearing en banc, published at (2004) 384 F.3d 567.
• On February 2, 2005, the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals denied defendant Williams’ subsequent petition for rehearing and suggestion for rehearing en banc, published at (2005) 396 F.3d 1059.
• Finally, on October 11, 2005, the United States Supreme Court denied defendant Williams’ petition for writ of certiorari in Case No. 04-10500. As this historical accounting proves, Williams has benefited from a detailed and exhaustive review of all of his legal claims and each court has affirmed the guilty verdicts and affirmed the death sentence. In doing so, our courts, both state and federal, have given appropriate and serious consideration to Williams, consideration which Williams so violently denied each of his victims.

http://www.lacountyda.org/pdf/swilliams.pdf



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Raine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-05 04:24 AM
Response to Reply #5
41. Will be interesting to
see what the governator is going to do, he'll end up politically screwed one way or the other with whatever he decides.
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okieinpain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-02-05 01:25 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. I believe they have more then enough to convict. I'm not saying
it doesn't happen, but I believe they have more then enough to sentence this guy to death.
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hiaasenrocks Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-02-05 01:36 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. I agree with you. There can be prosecutorial
misconduct in cases, and juries can get it wrong sometimes.

But this case is very solid, as multiple courts have concluded on appeal.
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-02-05 02:40 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. Looking at the appeals list it seems there were far more denials
of appeals than of re-examining of the evidence

There is a big difference between an appeal that confirms the previous conviction and an appeal that is denied.

The LA DA's office wanted to get this guy because of his founding of the gang. And there is no denying that he did form the gang, and that it is a criminal gang. But conviction on a single piece of physical evidence whose provenance is questionable, supported by testimony of people who all stood to gain by testifying against him makes this particular case shaky.

Now if they had charged him with conspiracy in forming the gang, a gang with an indisputed murderous record, and put him away for life on that charge, I'm fine with that. But a clerk saying she registered a shotgun to him eight years before a crime is committed with that gun is not evidence that his finger was on the trigger. Particularly if said shotgun was kept at another person's residence.

Evidence of his remorse for his gang activity is clear in his strong anti-gang activities. As for his refusing to be "debriefed", it should be self-evident that the moment he snitches his effectiveness as an anti-gang activist would be through. As for showing no remorse for the murders, if he did not commit them how could he show remorse? If he had committed them showing remorse would look real good to a clemency board, which could then take into account his anti-gang work and very possibly spare his life so that he could continue his work from inside the prison. He certainly knows this, and knows that making no statement of remorse is risky at best. So why would he continue to claim innocence, unless really innocent at least of these murders?

It's not like the LAPD and DA's office never set anyone up to take a fall.
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Columbia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-02-05 06:18 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. His appeals were not based on his good deeds.
It is based on various alleged discrepancies made during the trial that he is trying to prove to be exculpatory. Admitting guilt by showing remorse would pretty much render all his arguments moot.
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hiaasenrocks Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-02-05 10:13 PM
Response to Reply #14
23. It is true that sometimes an appeal is denied
based on merit. This defendant's case for appeal (including clemency) lacks merit.

The statement about the LAPD setting people up for a fall is accurate. It has happened. There is no evidence for that in this case, as decided by the appeals process in various courtrooms before numerous judges.
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the_real_38 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-02-05 01:26 PM
Response to Original message
9. Long post, but it does resolve things
.... to my mind. He's guilty, and I've got no sympathy for the guy.
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hiaasenrocks Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-02-05 01:33 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. Happy to help. Thanks! n/t
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Fescue4u Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-07-05 03:28 PM
Response to Reply #9
42. yup guilty
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Shakespeare Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-02-05 06:22 PM
Response to Original message
16. That info is totally irrelevant for those of us against the death penalty.
How "guilty" somebody is (or isn't) is completely beside the point.

But if posting this makes you feel better, then bully for you.
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MrSlayer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-02-05 07:02 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. Yes, it's irrelevant that he laughed over the corpses of his victims.
That he bragged that he loved the feelings he got after hurting people, that he tried to escape and would have killed guards in doing so, that he killed far more people than he was convicted of, that he sent others out to murder for him, that he is indirectly responsible for thousands more deaths. None of that matters. I guess you would have spared Hitler the DP too if he wrote a few kid's books about tolerance.

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Shakespeare Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-02-05 07:12 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. Wow, hyperbole much?
Find my ANYWHERE on this board where I've ever defended the character of Tookie Williams; I haven't. In fact, I find him despicable.

That said, I don't believe in the death penalty. I don't think the state should be in the business of putting people to death, no matter how richly deserved any group thinks that might be. No death penalty, no exceptions. As I said, how terrible a person he is is irrelevant to those of us who don't believe in the death penalty. Life in prison, yes. Death penalty....uh, no.

Nice gratuitous Hitler reference, too. :eyes:
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hiaasenrocks Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-02-05 10:03 PM
Response to Reply #16
21. It's not about feeling better.
Edited on Fri Dec-02-05 10:04 PM by hiaasenrocks
It's about presenting the facts, because there have been countless posts here in favor of Tookie that misrepresent the facts of the case.

Against the death penalty? Fine. That's a totally different issue.

But when people post here, referencing the trial in ways that do not reflect the truth, it's perfectly reasonable to correct the record. And that's what I was trying to do.
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sproutster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-02-05 08:04 PM
Response to Original message
20. Didn't I read somewhere Vengence was the Lords? ... Just saying...
What is the point of putting someone to death that is WORTH SOMETHING? I am NOT saying set him free - But it hurts no one to let him have LWOP. It will not bring back the dead to kill him.

As it stands he is helping people, and out of a sense of vengence and eye for an eye, you would have him killed even though he may actually be saving lives? Makes no sense to me.

Sproutie <-- Pro DP
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hiaasenrocks Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-02-05 10:10 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. I've heard that argument and I did take it into consideration.
There is no reason to believe that his work from inside the prison can't continue under the direction of others. It happens all the time when people die.

And I personally think that serving justice on this defendant will also teach these kids something: If you brutally murder four people in a violent robbery spree, there is a price to pay.
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sproutster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-02-05 10:22 PM
Response to Reply #22
24. LOL!! Well no one will ever mistake you for a christian :)
Edited on Fri Dec-02-05 10:26 PM by sproutster
Looky kids, he taught you to not enter gangs and gang violence was wrong - he answered your letters and urged you to find a new way. He killed people and was sentenced to death. He was rehabilitated enough to earn a nomination for a nobel peace prize but IT DOESNT MATTER -- WE MUST kill him! Don't kill people or we will kill you! If you ever screw up - keep on that track because IT DOES NOT MATTER - There is no mercy.

I bet it will learn em.

No wonder there were so many votes for the war.

**had to edit because my thoughts did not translate**
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hiaasenrocks Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-02-05 10:26 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. A few points.
Edited on Fri Dec-02-05 10:27 PM by hiaasenrocks
1. I am not claiming to be a Christian.

2. I bet it will teach something.

3. I despise those who voted for and continue to prop up the Iraq War, whether they're doing it actively or passively. This thread is about a defendant in a murder trial, not Iraq. If you have substantive points to make, I'm interested. If not, this is a waste of time.
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sproutster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-02-05 10:28 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. I edited my answer - it was incoherent as it was.
My point is -- What is it teaching the children? And please view my edited post above -- What is it teaching?
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hiaasenrocks Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-02-05 10:29 PM
Response to Reply #26
27. I answered that in the post you responded to.
Based on your posts here, I don't expect you'll agree with me on this. That's fine.
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sproutster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-02-05 10:30 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. No you didn't
What will it teach the children?
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hiaasenrocks Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-02-05 10:33 PM
Response to Reply #28
29. POST 22. I did answer it.
hiaasenrocks (394 posts) Fri Dec-02-05 10:10 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. I've heard that argument and I did take it into consideration.
There is no reason to believe that his work from inside the prison can't continue under the direction of others. It happens all the time when people die.

And I personally think that serving justice on this defendant will also teach these kids something: If you brutally murder four people in a violent robbery spree, there is a price to pay.

-----------------------------------------------------------
I understand you may disagree with that, but what don't you understand about it? You asked me what it will teach the children AFTER I already stated it. Right there in post 22.

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sproutster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-02-05 10:36 PM
Response to Reply #29
31. That's bs... How many murdering robbers are serving LWOP?
A lot. If you would like, I can go scrounge around for statistics.

Where is the protest that they are still alive, and they will continue to be alive?

This is vengence ~
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hiaasenrocks Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-02-05 10:37 PM
Response to Reply #31
32. Okay, so you disagree.
That's fine.

Post all the stats you want about people serving LWOP. I don't believe that should be the outcome in this case. We disagree.

I don't even understand the question about protests that they're still alive and will continue to be alive. Can you rephrase that?
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fortyfeetunder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-05 03:12 AM
Response to Reply #29
36. How about being accountable for 2100+ murders in Iraq?
Drawing your logic further with my subject example, think that person should also pay the price with a DP....KWIM?
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sproutster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-02-05 10:34 PM
Response to Reply #27
30. Also
I first posted I am pro-dp. There are just dp's, and there are ones that are just wrong.

Bundy? -- He was taking up oxygen.
Duncan? -- He is still taking up oxygen.
Nazi war criminals?
There are tons and tons of examples of just executions. But this one is different - He is not taking up oxygen - he is saving lives, he is changing minds, he is doing something. Yes he created the beast, but he is making ammends for that - and for his work, the very least we as a "civilized" society can do is LWOP.
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hiaasenrocks Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-02-05 10:40 PM
Response to Reply #30
33. I understand your position.
And I addressed that argument as well in post 22.

There is no reason to believe that his work from inside the prison can't continue under the direction of others. It happens all the time when people die.
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Peter Frank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-05 05:07 AM
Response to Original message
37. K & R... n/t
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Fescue4u Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-05 03:12 AM
Response to Original message
39. Truly an Animal
Thankfully his reign of terror will end soon (as so with it the barrage of the save tookie threads)

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AussieDave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-05 03:56 AM
Response to Original message
40. Is it possible Tookie still runs the Crips
or is still involved in some way with them from behind bars ?? I read somewhere that if he's executed then the gang will take it out on prison guards, among others.

Sorry if this has been asked before.
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