Why don't we have a "draft" ? Huh?

[Catchawave]

This Iraq thing is so important to the Bushies, wouldn't a draft help them?

I know the draft helped the prison overcrowding during Viet Nam, strange, but true. You bet, my DH was a recruiter, and made quota every month in Southern California *snork*

Seriously folks, the absence of a "draft" and asking citizens to "sacrifice" for the "cause" really upsets me. Can someone explain to me "why". :shudder: this g.d. chickenhawk administration anyhow. Makes NO sense :silly:

[OldLeftieLawyer]

1. There's not a Congressman or Senator

who would vote for that.

Fuckface would never do anything so - you know - fairminded.

Let the poor people fight the war.

Ask Barbara "She Should Have Been Sterilized At Birth" Bush about what might happen to her "beautiful mind" if a draft were reinstated.

These thugs planned to leave that for the Democrat who'll be in the White House next. Too back Jack Murtha kicked that little plan right out from under them.

[pocket]

10. some have voted for a draft in the past few years

Chuck Rangel's bill had some yes votes

[OldLeftieLawyer]

11. That's easy to do,

especially when you know the bill's going nowhere.

I was talking about a serious bill.

[Catchawave]

13. Thanks, you caught my drift.....

Going to WAR withOUT a draft ? Without Victory Gardens? Without one itty-bitty sacrifice for "the cause". ::slapping myself in the head::

[OldLeftieLawyer]

15. What "war"?

Haven't had one of those since WWII.

Where are all the "sacrifices" we're supposed to be making in wartime?

Besides, wars are traditionally good for the economy, with all those jobs left open by the soldiers gone to battle filled by workers who might otherwise not have jobs. All those defense plants turning out ammo and guns and bombs and body armor and tanks and HumVees and all that stuff.

Oh.

We've "outsourced" it all?

Yeah, some "war."

War, my ass.

[Catchawave]

16. I bow to you LeftieLawyer.....

Same page, eh?

I'm a spoiled rotten military brat/wife >>from WW2/Korea/Cold War/Bay of Pigs/VN/Beirut/Gulf War 1<<<.......this Irackie war thing is not worthy of any of those :( GWB is scarier. I rest my case.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

17. Amen, baby

We got 'em on the run, I do believe.

[Catchawave]

23. Yep and ....

mo'hugs :)...errr...mo' :hug:

[TahitiNut]

2. Bring it on!

I'm personally in favor of a Universal National Service requirement, but a draft will do in the mean time. Make it gender neutral while we're at it!

[Warpy]

7. Bullshit

The lack of a draft has curbed Stupid's imperial ambitions. He doesn't have the manpower to extend his empire in the middle east.

Plus, you can draft women the day MEN start GETTING PREGNANT.

[TahitiNut]

12. It's interesting you don't think women are qualified to serve.

How about lesbians? Gay men? :eyes:

Democracy isn't a spectator sport,
... no matter how much Madison-Avenue-level "logic" and sloganeering is spouted.

It's also fascinating that you claim that the absence of a draft has harnessed Junior while most credit the draft with motivating the anti-war movement during the Viet Nam era. There's no logical support for your assertion. None.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

14. I don't think women should be in combat, either

And they should not be drafted in the event of a war.

Once, when I was younger and things were very, very different, I thought differently. Now, maybe because I see how utterly impossible it is for young women in this Iraq situation, how many rape charages go unanswered, how the physical disparities make things so difficult, and, mostly, how the children left at home miss their mothers, I no longer think that way.

Women are different, and I celebrate that difference. We don't have to prove equality by getting down as low as men.

[TahitiNut]

18. There wasn't one damned thing I did in Viet Nam that a woman couldn't do.

Not one.

You don't think men get raped and abused? Ask Mumia about that. Stop using problems that should be solved as some rationale. That's like the press not supporting more comprehensive whistle-blower protection statutes in order to abuse anonymously sourced information. The underlying injustices must be solved - something made far more difficutl when people vest an interest in having the problem continue.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

20. I don't know that, but I'll take your word

After all, I have no idea what you did in VietNam. You might have been a company clerk.

That doesn't matter, because things are very different now - that was a lifetime ago.

I don't take issue with women serving, not at all. But, you missed the final point I made, which is that women do not have to lower themselves to certain levels in order to feel equal. There are other ways.

Children left at home when their mothers are gone suffer in a way that is very different from what they have to endure when their fathers go. Both are awful, but the mother-child bond is unique, and having it broken for things like this Iraq abomination is beyond tragic.

[TahitiNut]

22. Yeah ... life is good on that pedestal, I guess.

No need to "lower one's self." :eyes:

Over 50% of us (including me) in Viet Nam were regularly under fire. Not only did I not do anything a woman couldn't do, I never saw any guy do anything a woman couldn't do. That includes John Levitow, whose acts right above my head on the night of Feruary 23-24 earned him a Medal of Honor. Yes, I was there - on the ground beneath his gunship.

http://www.mishalov.com/Levitow.html

On edit: One of the 'arguments' I see around here all the time is how "men" aren't qualified to have any say in abortion (privacy, actually) rights, or even the choice of having an abortion or not, since they're not subject to the laws that would result, or the birth.

How does that shoe fit regarding the draft? How does that shoe fit regarding any war where draftees are sent? Hmmmm??? Should women be excluded from Congress (wherein the authority to declare war resides) because they don't have enough skin in the game? Hmmm?

I personally don't buy into that crap. Not a bit. It seems I might have a lot more respect for women than many.

[Name removed]

24. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[TahitiNut]

26. You feign befuddlement and then call me befuddled?

That's one of the most laughable personal attacks (projections) I've yet seen. You lose. It was nice playing. Buh-bye.

[electropop]

3. Because members of Congress have draft-age kids and grandkids.

[Orsino]

4. Because a draft...

...would force a majority of Americans to think about the possibility of the war's actually affecting them. Right now, with a nearly all-volunteer force, we can pretend it's someone else's problem, and something only a small minority of citizens would have to handle.

[Broken_Hero]

8. exactly...if they do a draft...

this country will split apart i believe..just like if they overturn abortion or something like that....i'm draft age, and believe me, if their was a draft, i'm buying a hockey stick, and eating putine for the rest of my life...:)

[stillcool]

5. Because we have ...

Private Military contractors?
http://www.primetimecrime.com/Recent/War%20on%20terror/Private%20Military%20Companies.htm

[TahitiNut]

28. Ding ding. Give that gal a cigar..

The Federal Debt is a bottomless well of cash to the Military-Industrial critters. What better than to privateer? That means chickenhawk profits off every swinging dick who collects 75% of the $150,000/year paid for his Rambo ass. We spend more than the rest of the world combined on military forces. We're going for double that, I'm betting. And every 18-25-year-old gladly shoulders that increased federal debt, hoping they can outrun the slowest runner that the bear eats.

[halobeam]

6. I believe they would've implemented the draft if it weren't for

the election of 2004. He was cornered into saying "no draft". That's the only reason why (so far, IMO) there isn't one now.

If the same Iraq invasion had just begun this year (under the same lying set of circumstances), I think they would have a draft (being our troops are in a severe mess) and considering Bush won't be running again. More cannon fodder, he's got to be all for THAT... he's a disturbed, sick individual.

[toymachines]

9. Yes, but since when does his word mean jackshit?

Now congressmen pleading with him and all his bad press this year may have deterred him. For a while though, i was sure we were going to see a draft, scared the shit out of this 20 yo kid.

[Orsino]

21. I was sure they'd try to pass a draft, too, but...

...I see they've got a better plan. Keep funneling the nation's wealth into an ever-more-isolated elite, and you create a permanent underclass who will supply the machine with fresh blood whenever you need it.

This coming "drawdown" will mean abandoning the pretense of liberating Iraqis, but will leave a core force protecting the oil fields.

[Catchawave]

19. Hope the Children of DU are"BushCo" safe !

Seriously, I beat the odds, having my kids reach maturity and beyond draft age during the Clinton Admin. I'm parentally/selfishly safe, even though all my little rug rats are grown and (1) running a biz in NYC and (1) working for DHS and (1) home with me as a "special ed"...whew. :hi:

[Bucky]

25. I'm pretty sure that "draft" boat sailed around December 2001

Moral of this story: never blow a window of opportunity

[Nikki Stone 1]

27. A draft will only happen under a Democratic president, not a pug

The pugs have no credibility when it comes to sending the poor into a war for their stock portfolios. It will have to be the Dems, under a Democratic "party of the common man" president who will have the political cred to send average Joes and Janes in to die for stock portfolios.