Did anyone just see Today Show about soliers who complain??

[LiberalLibra]

Now this f...ed up government is thinking about disiplinary action against "THOSE WHO COMPLAIN". Anyone else hear this too????

[Skidmore]

1. I heard it earlier on CNN...

the new command general was asked if the soldiers were to be disciplined (Paula Zahn interviewer) and he said that none in the military is ever to state any opinion in opposition to the Sec of Defense or the President. That he would not discuss the actions that were to be taken, but they would be dealt with by their unit commanders.

[LiberalLibra]

4. Ok, ok, this WH squatter has hit a new all time low now.......

....oh, this is royally f...ed up. We send our soldiers off to die and if they complain about the conditions they are in that might cause their deaths, they are disiplined???

Oh, I'm sorry, but this really struck a cord in me. This is just cold hearted as hell.

[gratuitous]

20. So, what's Abiziaid's discipline going to be?

After all, in just a couple of days on the job, he's contradicted his Commander in Chief and the Secretary of Defense by saying that the troops continue to fight a war in Iraq (mission not accomplished), and that that war involves guerilla tactics. Truthful as his comments are, it sounds like insubordination to me.

[NYYFan]

2. I saw it

and even though I know it's always been that way, it's still f!@#$% up. I mean last week the 3rd Infantry was going home soon, now it's January or longer. I'd bee pissed too. Also, they made a point to say that some are complaining that they are acting as policemen, and they have NO TRAINING to do so. :wtf:

[LiberalLibra]

6. Exactly!! They are trained as soldiers NOT COPS.......

...these soldiers are Americans and if they put their lives on the lines in my name that says something BIG with me.

Trent Lott said it best,(paraphrasing of course) "I can support our military without supporting the pResident"

[rocktivity]

3. Well, theirs is NOT to reason why

Theirs is to...how does the rest of that go?

rocknation

[Orangepeel]

5. Unfortunately....

I believe the original quote is "do OR die." Sadly, in this situation, it seems increasingly likely to be AND.

[opihimoimoi]

10. Sorry to say, "we get what we vote for"

That we have allowed this fraud to occupy our White House gives paose as to the price. The result of Bush and Co has wounded America and perhaps set us back many years. Our surpluses are now deficiets, our army is engaged on 2 1/2 fronts, etc etc.

and now we have to stifle the complaints from the GI Joes with threat of punishments??

Wow,

come, we go look for pies

[oasis]

16. Our service people will home to their communities, their testimonials

will bury Bush's chances in the 2004 election. Chimpboy can raise all the money he wants, but "one man one vote" will prevail.

come, we go Kapiolani Bakery next door to Abercrombie's HQ. Get plenty pies inside.

[opihimoimoi]

26. uuuuuuuuu Haupia MacNut Pie sooo OONNO

yum :9 :9 :9 :9 :9 :9 :9 :9 :9 :9 :9 :9 :9 :9 :9 :9 :9 :9 :9 :9

[Le Taz Hot]

7. Apparently, there's nothing they can do to

enlisted personnel. There is currently a really good thread on this in LBN:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=18290&mesg_id=18290&page=

[LiberalLibra]

9. THANKS FOR THE LINK - I'm really sorry for being so irrate BUT....

...I come from a family with a long military history and this kind of thing just gets my dandruff to flying.

[charlie]

13. That Falvy guy is wrong

Details are in this thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=53287&mesg_id=53287

If Rummy wants to be a shitbag, he has the legal tools to screw the soldier for his remarks, if he can make a case that they were an expression of contempt for the SecDef.

[markbark]

11. Here it is in black and white...

Article 89 of the UCMJ clearly states:

Any commissioned officer who uses contemptuous words against the President, the Vice President, Congress, the Secretary of Defense, the Secretary of a military department, the Secretary of Transportation, or the Governor or legislature of any State, Territory, Commonwealth, or possession in which he is on duty or present shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.


Enlisted personnel however..... :evilgrin:


--MAB

[Skwmom]

17. There's plenty they can do.

For example, they can be demoted in rank.

[underpants]

8. The showed the BBC footage but cut out the "Just shoot me..." part

SFC~"These guys are physically and mentally exhausted and some of them are willing to get injured so they can go home ..."

That's where NBC cut it off but on the BBC World News two nights ago the footage had this the end-"Some have said 'Just shoot me so I can go home'"

[pippin]

12. complaining and asking for rummy's resignation

not only are they complaining but they think rummy ought to go!

"Soldiers in Iraq began openly calling for the Defence Secretary’s resignation, after their withdrawal was delayed for a third time this week. One told ABC television: “If Donald Rumsfeld were here, I’d ask him for his resignation.”

note: they are "openly calling" so i suspect the military high chiefs are going to have to be prepared to deal not only with rebellious iraqis, but to discipline disgruntled members of their own unhappy band.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,7374-748165,00.html

[Art_from_Ark]

14. Let me get this right

It was OK for AFRTS/Far East Network to broadcast Ru$h Dimbulb's endless tirades against Bill Clinton over military radio for 8 years, but it is not OK for members of the military to complain about their current "Commander-in-Chief"?

[underpants]

22. I was thinking along the same lines this morning

I can't , off the top of my head, remember a military person saying negative things about Clinton in the media (Lott and Helms led that chrge in the Well of the US senate no less) but I am sure it happened.

[vi5]

15. Isn't that standard military procedure/rules?

I'm not a military guy but to be fair isn't it just common sense that military is not supposed to speak out against the commander/sec of defense no matter how much they disagree with him?

I remember when that bogus e-mail was going around about how the military salute during the clinton years was different than the bush years or reagan years because they didn't respect him, most military experts and personnel said that was not true because no matter how much they disliked the prez that they knew it was their job to follow his orders and respect him.

[Classical_Liberal]

19. How many Clinton critics were court marshalled or threated with it?

? Also if soldiers aren't citizens anymore, why doesn't anyone reem W a new asshole for doing all of his speeched is front of soldiers like a coward.

[charlie]

21. Precedent is immaterial

The will to use regulations vindictively is what matters, and the Repubs have that in spades. For the Jihad Repubs, concession isn't enough, only total capitulation with a good measure of grovelling will do. Clinton let criticisms slide (see Art_from_Ark's post), Bush and Rummy might not.

Unfortunately, there are enough dittohead types in the upper echelons of the military that the soldiers who dare complain may have to endure legal punishment after their tours in Iraq.

[Brian Sweat]

25. Actually an officer was charged for criticizing Clinton,

but Clinton asked them to drop the charges.

[magnolia]

18. They said...

...punishiment would be up to their commander. Last week I saw an interview with a commander of another division...on ABC...and he made the statement that he didn't know if the Iraq mission was worth dying for, but he would die for his men. So, this leads me to believe that the punishment won't be harsh, maybe just a verbal reprimand. What else are they going to do...send them home with a dishonorable discharge...I doubt any of them would mind. Gee...I wonder what this is going to do for enlistments. Maybe we are seeing the end of the military as we know it.

[HootieMcBoob]

24. that's right

Remember the unit commanders are over there in the same shit. They probably feel the exact same way. They know the pressures these soldiers are under. Hopefully the most that will happen is that they'll get chewed out and told not to talk to the press or something. But I wouldn't put anything past the bushies. You know they will do anything in their power to get revenge on anybody who says anything bad about them. Look what they did to Wilson's wife! They actually may have commited treason by outing an active undercover cia agent, the wife of ambassador Wilson who started the whole Niger thing by going public with his info. They will do anything. They don't care about anyone or anything. They are most certainly not concerned in the least bit with what's in the best interest of this country or its citizens.

[LawDem]

23. Nothing will be done to past "violators"

Nothing will be done to past "violators." The politics of punishing these guys would be awful from Bush Co.'s perspective. This is a shot across the bow, designed to intimidate others from following their lead.