Black Friday was a bust; this is how I know

[Atman]

In retail these days, registers are polled regularly by satellite uplink or even just by regular phone-ins to the home-office. Retailers knew how well they did last night. So, where are the hyperventilating press releases regarding sales?

If Black Friday was truly black, it would be the only story on the news right now, you can gauran-effing-tee it. Since we're hearing nothing, it leads me to believe they're busy coming up with explanations and crafting some happy-news press releases, or SOMETHING, anything, to keep us shopping and keep the fake momentum up. Instead, I think we'll be seeing ramped up mark-downs and lots of hand-wringing over the numbers. I heard lots of retail managers on teevee news yesterday saying that "traffic" was heavy. But so is traffic in Manhattan at rush hour, but that doesn't mean anyone is actually getting anywhere.

I may be wrong, but the silence from the retailers this morning is deafening. If things were good, they'd be telling us by now.

[babylonsister]

1. A 3% increase in sales was supposedly expected. Doesn't

mesh at all with the state of our economy, unemployment, people facing unemployment, heating prices, etc. I think you're right; it's not a rosy picture they're trying to paint.
And I like your analogy to Manhattan traffic!

[seemunkee]

2. WP article says it was a good day

Lead article in the business section today
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/11/25/AR2005112500583.html

[Atman]

12. Read that article from start to finish...it says no such thing

The sub-head suggests that sales were good, but the actual article says no such thing. Allusions to high "traffic," but not sales. In fact, the only actual sales figures reported in the article are from a pizza vendor in the food court, which would make sense...high traffic still has to stop for lunch. $4 for a pizza and coke special is not the same as a shopping cart full of teevees and Tickle-Me-Elmos.

No, re-read that article. It was a masterful piece of obfuscatory journalism. I happy-talk press-release designed to build some sort of fake momentum. It actually says nothing.

[Freedom_from_Chains]

3. I think you are on the money.

Most retailers would have know by mid-night last night how well, or not so well, they did. This mornings press is completely silent on the subject.

[TheCowsCameHome]

4. Interesting. Also, if prices are so low, profits won't be there either.

Even if sales numbers are good, if the profits aren't there what's the point of giving the stuff away?

[DS1]

5. I've found it's typically the local news stations that report this

but we'll see. I'll give them till the 6 o'clock news before I make a judgement.

I hope it was shitty, and that the only sales they made were the total loss-leaders. Fuck em.

[cliss]

25. You said it.

I'm so sick of this maniacal shop-shop-shop till you drop. Go even deeper in debt than you were before. Exhaust yourself, wandering through the mall, fight for overpriced crap, and then waste lots of time wrapping.

We will NOT be part of the Xmas bandwagon this year. I also hope it was shitty. Consumer boycotts are the only way to get through to these companies, and it's more effective than we realize.

[chat_noir]

6. Black Friday sales figures won't be available until Monday

http://news.google.com/news?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rls=HPIC,HPIC:2005-21,HPIC:en&q=Black+Friday+sales+figures&tab=wn

[xultar]

9. I don't buy it. When I worked in Retail we had our numbers the next

day and we needed them to know what we needed to do to keep on track.

[tsuki]

51. Walmart has a data base second to the Pentagon. They knew

their hourly figures. And if they are selling products at below wholesale, that has to be figured in. BTW, does any other state have a law that you cannot sell below cost?

[ewagner]

Wisconsin n/t

[Atman]

13. Bullshit. I worked in the home office of Casual Corner

Even back then, ten years ago, they polled their registers almost hourly. They knew by close-of-business what their numbers were. The only reason anyone would wait until Monday is because that is the time the PR and marketing departments need to lipstick up the pig.

[MarsThe Cat]

23. Or...

If the friday numbers weren't quite what they expected, they could be waiting to see how things go on saturday & sunday, and report the numbers for the whole 3-day weekend, not just the one day.

[Bouncy Ball]

64. Ding ding ding ding ding!

Smart money is on them reporting a total for the whole three days, not just Friday.

That'll make it look better, you know.

[peekaloo]

7. I just wish that one woman buys herself a new wig.

:evilgrin:

[Olney Blue]

15. LOL

:rofl:

[randr]

8. Stories of violence and under stocking

have been prevalent from what I saw on CNN early this am.

[xultar]

11. Which makes me laugh cuz if they under stocked then people didn't

walk out with a lot of stuff.

I know if a store doesn't have what I want then I don't buy.

[Warpy]

36. Understocking is how they lose less money

on the deals they use to lure people into the store. They know that even if people are discouraged by the fistfights around the few items in stock, they'll probably settle for second best among the regularly priced stuff. Also note that the best sales happen in the REAR of most stores.

At least, that's been true in the past. It might not be true now with wages declining as necessities inflate in cost.

Witless blowdried bobblehead comment of the week, "Well, I understand that if you delete food and energy costs, inflation has remained relatively flat."

No attribution, just heard it on CBS News when I flipped on the set to get the weather forecast on a different station.

[ComerPerro]

44. Oh, well then, I guess its ok!

After all, who cares that gas doubled during Bush's time in office! Who cares that food prices and energy are more expensive now? Nobody needs that stuff!

Miscellaneous crap is still cheap (kinda sorta)!

[BlueIris]

101. GOD I hate understocking.

There is NOTHING that will make me ditch a business faster than seeing proof that they're understocking the basic necessities I shop there for. In fact, today I decided that I'm going to have to stop going to a "blue" store in my area after the third week in a row they managed to run out of my favorite tea less than 36 hours after putting the new stuff out on the shelves. Fuck that. I'm done.

[Bouncy Ball]

66. A friend of ours tried to go to Wal-Mart

in the wee hours of Friday morning. She didn't end up buying a thing. She witnessed a physical fight between three women and left. Police were pulling up just as she was leaving.

[Psst_Im_Not_Here]

10. Well, since I worked 13 hours yesterday...

I work retail and pulled 13 hour shift yesterday. Our store had a 25% gain in sales over last year, so, I'm not so sure.

[ananda]

14. me either

The sales looked hot to me, too... on tv. I didn't go to the stores, except for groceries at Whole Foods.

I hate rush-hour type sales. Mobs. Craziness. Violence.

What kind of society are we now? Sales-crazed consumer junkies who just have to have the latest greatest toy or electronic gimmick. It's nuts.

Sue

[Atman]

17. How do sales "look hot" on teevee?

Lot of people running through a Wal Mart beating each other up doesn't mean diddly at the register. Again, more happy propaganda to whip us into a buying frenzy, with nothing real to substantiate it. Just video that makes it LOOK "hot."

[_testify_]

16. I work in the home office for my company

and we obliterated last year's numbers. I dunno about anyone else, but there had to have been people spending money for that to happen...

[Atman]

20. Weren't last year's numbers among the worst ever?

So, just like the rest of Bush's presidency, if something doesn't suck nearly as bad as last year, it must be good? YTD same-store numbers might be up from last year, but how are the numbers actually trending? Where does your store stand in comparison to when Bush took over his stewardship of the economy?

Also...do you sell high-end and luxury goods? I don't think anyone was worried about the Top 1% demographic hurting this Christmas.

[_testify_]

28. We have done better than the preceding year, even in 2001.

Granted we are still a smallish company, but know how to run our business.

We have about 40 locations in malls throughout the Southeast. We deal in licensed merchandise for pro & college sports.

However, you could make a point that sports provided a needed distraction from their problems for the masses, and that's why we've done better as of late. Sort of the same way alcohol sales rise during a depression?

[DoYouEverWonder]

22. My business is doing well too.

But this is the first year in a while that we didn't have something bad going on.

First it was 9-11. Then the next year they pulled a terror alert for 9-11 and no one knew when W was going to start the invasion of Iraq. 2003 was okay but not great. 2004 was a bust because of two hurricanes and the election. Everyone was really depressed after the election. So in comparison this year is pretty good. Of course, I haven't had a 'good' year since W took office. Certainly nothing like the business I was doing when Clinton was running things.

[whatever4]

18. Ah!

Oh, you know, I've been wondering about this too. First, we heard all the "retailers are scared" stories, and then just in time, stories of all the shopping. Lots o' stories, local and national- but not a shred of fact to back them up but some footage. Stories about crowds, stories from helicopters flying around in the wee hours of the morning yesterday. We wake up real early sometimes. They looked like they did too, flew by mall after mall before it was light. Pretty footage of lit-up parking lots and store fronts.

That equals outstanding sales?? X-box crowds equals big christmas shopping? Sure. I was saying it ALL day. Being laid up a little in a cast, I had plenty of time. They played that shopping story all day.

But, like you said, where were the numbers? I was saying it too. What, did they dream these shopping stories up? All I saw was a parking lot half full at 5 in the morning at a 24 hour Walmart. With NO explanation of how this refutes days-earlier stories all about shopping worries for retailers, NO explanation about that. Not a word.

Now, with what you said, about there not being the stories about cash flow, number of sales, or anything, I can see how you aren't wrong. I can't see how you could be. They were talking big shopping long before shopping had time to get good and going yesterday, but there still aren't any stories about the outcome? They were all good and ready to run with early stories about high-volume shopping, and woke up that way, woke UP expecting the sales run, when sales were predicted to slump?

Gee, talk about getting the story out first, must be even easier when you invent it...

So much for trusting my local news. Bought and paid for, along with all the rest.

They REALLY want us to believe everyone else is shopping like crazy. Willing to make up news stories about it. Get people out flying around early for it.

Sad that such thought is paid to those kinds of complicated plans, but so little into actually helping anyone or improving anything. 's all about advertising. We're all so very much for sale.

[whatever4]

19. wow look at all the replies before I got mine in

I guess a lot of other people noticed it too

[Double T]

21. With The REAL ECONOMY the way it is, you would have to be insane......

to go out and spend a lot of money on christmas. Sure the credit card companies will hand out more cards and more credit, but be late with one payment and you will be looking at the default interest rate. Combine that with energy companies that have been given a license to run amok with overcharging consumers (thanks to unkie dick), the 'system' has created a recipe for an individuals financial disaster. And after they have got you by the ba..., well you know, your financial life is screwed with do easy debt relief in sight. Isn't it good to know that corporate america is always going to be there to screw you one way or the other....damn bastards!!!!!!!

[johnnyburma]

90. What is the "real economy" TT?

I've got no complaints. Stock market is up. GDP up 3%+ for 10 consecutive quarters for the first time since the 80's. I keep reading all the bitching about the economy, but I just don't see it in the numbers. The economy even weathered Katrina quite well. Compared to Europe, we're skatin'.

[UpInArms]

102. Welcome to DU johnnyburma!

for a peek at the economy, you can check in on the Latest Breaking News forum Monday through Friday for the Stock Market Watch thread of the day -

Here are a couple links from last week that are fairly indicative of the state of the economy:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=1941408

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=1938960

you might check out the links that are posted - these are all reputable sources (unless otherwise noted) and will show you where the strengths and weaknesses in our economy actually exist.

Hang around a while and you might learn a few things :D

:hi:

[stewert]

24. Sales or Profits.......

It's not about a sales increase or decrease, it's about profits. You could have a 3% sales increase and make less profits than last year if you sell things so cheap you make less profit. I want to know the profit numbers this year compared to last year, not the sales numbers.

And I know people who refuse to shop on black friday, they wait until later in the year.

[tsuki]

52. Spot on.

[TheCowsCameHome]

26. The credit card companies are licking their chops

After all those lemmings swallowed the bait yesterday...........

[fishnfla]

27. My wife was out there in the madness. A clerk at a big box store said

Their store would be having more special "deep discount" sales days like Friday. Its the only way to move any merchandise. Their sales forecasts were down. I think JCPenny's has been doing it more and more

[catmandu57]

29. Shopping isn't buying

After the loss leader sales we'll have to see what kind of pace is set, I don't believe we'll be hearing very much crowing about sales in the coming weeks.
Christmas this year is supposed to be pretty good, for the affluent that is.
I've been saying it for months, the retailer's are going to be laying a big guilt trip on credit card holders, pictures of big eyed children begging for the latest toy, people aren't going to think, they'll whip out the plastic, and when all the bills come in in January and February, and it's colder than ole snarlin dick's mechanical heart.
People are going to wondering just what in the fuck they did to themselves, there will be a mountain of bills, astronomical heating bills, credit card vultures raising rates, man I see a big rise in domestic violence, suicides, evictions, foreclosures, not a very pretty picture for next year.

[TheCowsCameHome]

35. Exactly.

[Batgirl]

30. thing I wonder about Black Friday

how many of those desperate people blew their whole wad yesterday. How many are in such financial straits this year that they figured the only way they were going to even be able to exchange gifts was to shop the BF sales? And are BF sales figures always a harbinger of what the remainder of the holiday shopping season will be like, or did lots of those shoppers go home yesterday having used up this year's meager budget.

[wakeme2008]

31. Profits is what really counts...

How much profit in that $300 Laptop or the $195 desktop.. Not a lot if any. DVDs are being sold cheap,, again what is the profit.

It is my understanding people are buying electronics this year and they have the lowest profit margins.

Maybe sales will be up, but profits will be very bad IMHO....

Also IMHO the only real ppl making good profits will be the credit card companies.

[jono]

32. Here's your good news!

Oh, Wait. Crap.

Besides offering steeper sales, retailers seeking to get the jump on their competition keep on moving up their opening times, trying to catch the early birds with fat wallets before shopping tires them out. At the Seattle Premium Outlets, 55 stores ranging from Aerosoles to Zumiez opened at midnight.

"This is the most promotional Black Friday we have seen," said Scott Krugman, a spokesman for the Washington-based National Retail Federation.

Still, the rain and the spread-out sales meant that not all places were packed. At 9 a.m., Northgate Mall's parking lot was half empty, and though Christmas music was blaring inside, shoppers were sparse, and those who were out shopping carried few bags.

...

Angela Hardy, Northgate's director of marketing, said the early morning sales brought in more people than last year, while maintenance man Rufus Toney said business seemed about the same to him as last year.

<snip>

Blame it on the rain...

[countingbluecars]

33. I heard a news report

that said that people are out there spending more because gas prices are lower. Gee, I wonder what gas prices will be like when the credit card bills start coming in?

[wellstone dem]

34. The local papers reported sales were flat, mediocre.

It said that people went in and just bought the "door busters" If that is so, the folks bought the loss leaders.

http://miva.sctimes.com/miva/cgi-bin/miva?Web/page.mv+1+local+875300+3+

"The messy morning roads may have made it a little more difficult to get from store to store, but the weather wasnt responsible for what one store owner called a mediocre kickoff to the holiday shopping season.

I think the mood of the consumer is still flat, and thats been the same all year, said John Schlecht, owner of Crafts Direct in Waite Park. The carts are about as full as they were last year. People are looking for the specials and thats it."

[nadinbrzezinski]

37. Oh fully agree with you

last year it was the same story... black friday lots of traffic, saturday lots of silence, by the following week SALES all over the place, and by two weeks, lower than expected... I fully expect the same pattern

[demble]

38. Black Friday

Personally, for the sake of the economy and the workers, I hope sales did very well yesterday.

[nadinbrzezinski]

40. Sales have not been good since 2001

you figure it out.

;-)

By the way in this household we will be spending even less this year than last... why? we can't affort to, period

[Name removed]

42. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[nadinbrzezinski]

43. Will see, they would be falling on top of each

other to tell us this, if this was a national trend...

Last year they hyped and when teh numbers came out were not good... at all

Look at last year and how it was handled... the night of black friday, crowds adn traffic was good... by monday they were looking for lipstick... two weeks later they finally told us the truth... so one store is not an indicator, it is a national thing.

[demble]

45. Economy

Well, we'll just have to keep our fingers crossed! ;-)

[nadinbrzezinski]

49. I am not engaging in any magical thinking

the economy SUCKS that is the truth and the inflation rate of the basic goods and services we need to live (Food, shelter, gas) are well above the so called official rate... why do you think those things are NOT on it?

So when people have to decide, food or toys, most of the time food wins out.

[demble]

50. ;-)

Things are definitely turning around for us here; this year has been a pretty good one. I hope things get better for you! I'll keep a good thought for ya!

[Bouncy Ball]

67. About your signature line,

it's the Democratic party. Not the Democrat party.

[Shakespeare]

69. Nice catch.

:spray:

[demble]

70. Wha?

What difference does THAT make? I vote Democrat, I am Democrat--same diff....

[nadinbrzezinski]

71. The republicans have taken out the ic out of it

makes it sound more omminous. Read 1984 and then if you want some linguists on the subject. It is called framing

;-)

[Bouncy Ball]

73. What he said.

repukes intentionally mispronounce it as "Democrat" party instead of the Democratic party.

[nadinbrzezinski]

78. She, said

she...

;-)

[Bouncy Ball]

81. YIKES!!!! Mucho apologies!!!

[nadinbrzezinski]

82. That is ok, hard to keep it straight, with what 80K + members?

[demble]

74. Thanks, but...

I don't much care what the Republicans have to say about it...

[nadinbrzezinski]

77. Then care what the Democratic party has to say about it

the party changed its name from Democrat-Republican in the early part of the 19th century and became the DEMOCRATIC party to reflect that this is the party of the people. By the way, it does not matter if you care what the GOP says, you are using THEIR frames.

Again go ahead and read 1984, there are even convenient copies on line.

[Bouncy Ball]

83. ...

All I was saying is you say it the way republicans say it. They intentionally say it that way to be ugly.

So I thought I'd save you from making that mistake and help you to call *your own political party* by the correct name.

Sheesh. You're welcome.

[demble]

84. Thanks....

However, I don't really care what the Pubes have to say about anything--and I sure don't let them define things...

[Shakespeare]

86. Do you at least care about using correct grammar?

Because "democrat party" is incorrect grammar.

You'll find that folks around here rightly point out this insidious "error."

[Bouncy Ball]

87. Then I'm sure you wouldn't want to say it in the

intentionally nasty way they do.

Thou dost protest...

[nadinbrzezinski]

88. That is fine

but they have defined how you call the Democratic party... George Orwell had nothing on them... you can call it the way you want but don't be too shocked if people call you on it... we are part of the DEMOCRATIC party and will not let off that... and it irks people.

So when you say that you will not let them define your definitition, guess what? they have.

[Raine]

92. It's a short jump

from Democrat to rat, something the rethugs like to use. x(

[TheWatcher]

98. Hmmmm. Me thinks I smell a rat.

And there certainly is no Democ attatched to it. :)

Oh, but I love it when they try. It's so cute. :)

As Mr. Sessler would say on G4's X-Play, we give demble's attempt at cleverness a 1.....

Out of 5.

[Shakespeare]

76. Not to mention it's grammatically incorrect. n/t

[JanMichael]

89. The "Democrat Party"? Is that a "typo" or a signal?

Just curious.

[proud2BlibKansan]

39. If you can stomach it,

turn on Faux Snooze. This is their big story - We Love Shopping!!!

[InkAddict]

41. 1st Time Black Friday shopper?

We've never done the "early bird" thing before, but decided there's a first time for everything, so after staying up all night, we ventured forth:

1st stop - Starbucks for coffee - kid's treat for Mom & Dad
2nd stop - Kohls by 6:00 am - Store was jammed - walked around - good sales but the lines at check-out were so..... long.... decided to skip purchasing anything and very happy to be out of there!!!

3rd stop - Sportsmart - Grown kids bought 2 sets of advertised clubs for themselves - $300 sets marked down to $99 - we didn't buy anything

4rd stop - McDonalds for breakfast - $21.20 for 5 people - should have done Steak & Shake - ate in car

5th stop - Michael's arts and crafts - bought Xmas decorations at 40% off - $38.39

6th stop - Old Navy - crazy, crowded...messy store...long lines - no purchases

At this point, we returned home to walk dogs and grab lunch - 3 of us returned to shopping, 2 of the "young ones" went to bed for their beauty sleep!

7th - Target - purchased air freshener, paper towels, and stuffed Squirrel gift for dog's Xmas gift - $17.08

8th - Linen's and Things - duvet cover on sale $23.00 and Xmas decorations for college daughter's apartment - $30.00

9th - Circuit City - replaced daughter's cell phone - it's the only phone she's got so while I'm counting it as a holiday gift, it's really a "need now" type of thing - $150.00 after rebate

10th stop - 7:40 p.m. - Panera Bread - soap & sandwich dinner for 3 - $37.00

One trip to Speedway for gas/bottled water, etc... $1.99 gal. for the trip home.

Overall, we didn't see a whole lot of "great buys" and don't think we'll do it ever again - not worth it!!!

[Earth_First]

63. Starbucks,McDonald's,Old Navy...

anyone you DID'NT exploit on your whirlwind shopping tour? I'll probably catch some flack for pointing this out, but jeebus, show a little more consumer power in where you choose to spend your dollars...

[nadinbrzezinski]

72. Actuially starbucks, as much as I don't like it

for other raesons, including lousy coffee, they offer health care and pay among the best for that part of the industry.

[Earth_First]

79. Perhaps, however how about the local economic impact Starbucks has...

in the same predatory tactics that Wal-Mart engages in suffocating their competition? Or the fair trade issue. If some advertising goon had not realized that "fair trade" had become almost a social trend, rather than conscious consumerism, they would have never offered fair trade coffee in their shops...

[nadinbrzezinski]

80. Oh I am not defending them

they have their practices and will go to my LOCAL coffee shop any day of the week before I step onto starbucks, but of the three retailers mentioned, they are the most responsible

[Gabi Hayes]

46. Keep your mouth shut! Consume.....

[Gabi Hayes]

47. Obey.....

[Gabi Hayes]

48. Diet relentlessly......

[TeeYiYi]

53. I'm obsessed with that picture, . . .

. . . trying to figure out the best way to remove the excess skin without leaving too many seams. :) The nipples would have to be removed and then re-attached closer to where they belong. Maybe some darts on the sides and straight seams under the arms and along the legs. I wonder how much all that skin weighs? I told you I was obsessed.*lol* Thanks Gabi.

TYY

[uniden]

54. "I may be wrong"

looks like you were wrong. It happens
http://www.northjersey.com/page.php?qstr=eXJpcnk3ZjczN2Y3dnFlZUVFeXkzJmZnYmVsN2Y3dnFlZUVFeXk2ODIyMzQ0JnlyaXJ5N2Y3MTdmN3ZxZWVFRXl5Mg==


"Traffic is up from last year. I think things are going well. I've seen a lot of people with packages and bags and that's to me a good omen."
http://www.wlns.com/Global/story.asp?S=4166690&nav=0RbQ

http://news.google.com/news?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rls=GGLG,GGLG:2005-47,GGLG:en&q=black%20friday&sa=N&tab=wn

[FlemingsGhost]

55. Where's the math, that backs up your assertion?

Did you even read the first article you linked?

[TheWatcher]

57. Obviously he didn't.

Complete obfuscation in my opinion. Just like the Wall Street Journal article, it really goes out of it's way to say really nothing much at all.

"We expect sales to be this,", 'We anticipate that", "We predict "X"", "We see lots of traffic", "We've heard some store Managers say", "It's been a great day for our customers", means nothing.

Numbers are what mean something.

And even if we do get to see any, with the way the government has handled the skewing and massaging of economic data (For example, the ridiculous practice of reporting Inflation Data that EXCULDES Food And Energy Costs, just so they can say "LOOK! There's kinda sorta NO INFLATION!"), I doubt we can put much stock in them.

[uniden]

61. search Walmart and Friday

numbers for the rest come up on Monday. And I used the same "math" he used.

[FlemingsGhost]

68. Then why present three ambiguous "man on the street" articles?

By the way, I'm fully capable of doing the research, but if you are going categorically refute one's opinion, the burden of presenting fact is on you, my friend.

In other words: "You do the math."

[uniden]

91. here you go

two companies that are on the record; no guesses from consultants looking for free press, or "man on the street" interviews:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20051126/ts_nm/retail_sales_dc
"Friday was a record day for the company and clearly exceeded our expectations. We feel we have good momentum going into the holiday," said Ken Hicks, president and chief merchandising officer for J.C. Penney.

"Wal-Mart, the world's biggest retailer, estimated that November sales rose 4.3 percent at its U.S. stores open at least a year, a key retail measure known as same-store sales. The figure was toward the high end of its forecast for 3 percent to 5 percent growth."


so far looks good but: "Analysts are still waiting to see whether Wal-Mart's strong performance came at the expense of rivals. "

[FlemingsGhost]

93. Have you seen this?:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x1948975



Huh ... "fuzzy math," I guess.

[TheWatcher]

97. You might want to read the link provided by another DU'er below

You're wrong. Plain and simple.

[TheWatcher]

56. "Traffic" Means nothing. Only if it translates to sales.

For the past three years they have had to put lipstick on a pig. This year the shade will be even redder.

[Shakespeare]

60. Oops! Too bad, Uniden. YOU'RE wrong.

It happens.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20051126/us_nm/retail_sales_dc

CHICAGO (Reuters) - The U.S. holiday season's first major shopping day got off to a relatively flat start compared to a strong 2004, despite special promotions, discounts and expanded hours, according to figures released on Saturday.

[Neil Lisst]

58. The silence IS deafening. The early rush was to get SALES.

Here's my read on Black Friday.

Consumers are more driven than ever to get deals, so the early morning RUSH into the stores was BIG.

Businesses selling to those consumers know that they will come with lower dollars overall to spend this year, and no one wants to price their business out of the market, so all are pushing big SALES.

SALES bring in the bargain hunters early, but once the sale materials are gone, so are the buyers looking for bargains.

Bottom line is that total sales numbers almost certainly have to go down this year, or barely move up. The downward pressure of debt and upward pressure of interest rates means less money to spend.

[darkism]

59. It seemed to me that Black Friday this year was a total bust

Where were the amazing deals that the likes of Fry's usually have? The best I saw was a 5-pack of miniDV tapes for $3 at Circuit City. Hardly worth getting up at 5 am for.

[PassingFair]

62. I live in Michigan, a state which has suffered under * rule.

I have a large extended family on my side AND my husband's side.
About 4 years ago, we started picking names amongst the adult siblings for gift-giving, as opposed to buying for everyone.
None of us is rich, so although we were reluctant to do it, we did.

Fast forward to THIS X-Mas, and we've (both sides!) decided to only draw names for the nieces and nephews this year! No presents for the adults.

I will still by for the grammas and for my kids and husband, but that's about it this year.

I will probably spend $500.00 less than I did 5 years ago....

[lolly]

65. Maybe we're all learning to be more practical?

I'm starting to wonder if, beyond economic trends, Americans are just shifting to new buying patterns for Christmas, and retailers are stuck in the old 50's-->80's model of obscene, excessive consumption?

Think about it. I have a full-time job for the first time this year, but I'm not running out and buying 1000's of dollars worth of Barbie Houses and X-boxes for my grade-school aged kids. I know they'll just destroy/lose/get bored with them after a few weeks.

Someone mentioned Office Depot doing well--yeah, I shop there. Notebooks, nice pens, blank CDs for recording, printer supplies, even crayons and markers and colored paper for the kids to make pictures on--these all make great presents and are useful. Toys R Us? Forget it; I'm not going near the place.

I think more and more people are moving away from the mentality that "I've got to buy LOTS of gifts, even if they're useless and will end up as landfill by February, or I'm not a good person!"

[nadinbrzezinski]

75. I asked a local retailer I know

he is a friend, how things are going so far...

As they said, they are alright, nothing spectacular. This is a specialty store... and if they have seen any improvement over last years it is not in yet. that said unlike walmart they will have to wait a little before they can check all receipts. The store was quite full this afternoon the hour I spent there... but mostly people were looking, some sales but few

[Roland99]

85. Weather's been warm this weekend following a real cold Fri. morn.

[RazzleDazzle]

94. Haha -- great line

"traffic" was heavy. But so is traffic in Manhattan at rush hour, but that doesn't mean anyone is actually getting anywhere.

I guess the video clips of fat middle-aged women getting trampled in the Wal-Mart lobby served instead. ya think?

[moondust]

95. Grand illusion?

I've wondered how much the recent stock market runup and the recent drop in gas prices have been staged to create conditions conducive to madcap buying this holiday season.

I, too, think the MSM would be bombarding the airwaves 24/7 with record sales figures if there were any.

[lonestarnot]

96. Poop on a black Friday. Paint more signs!

<>

[JNelson6563]

99. In addition to that

Not only are they doing barely concealed advertising as "news" but the new mantra is....wait for it.......wait till you see the on-line sales on Monday!!

<gag>

[cap]

100. if the sales were so good, the companies would be issuing

press releases. If the press releases are lies, they can go down on stock fraud... manipulating figures.

Also, watch the earnings expectations for retailers.

[Czolgosz]

103. I went to Houston's Galleria with a retail exec (a/k/a my brother) who was

there on business checking on the sales volume and crowd patterns for his conglomerate. He reported back to his bosses (the CEO) that things looked poor generally but that his stores were seeing better traffic than other stores at the Galleria.