I'm Flipped Out About Voting Irregularities In Ohio--What Can We Do?

[davidlynch]

Fellow DUers, I am flipped out about what Kenneth Blackwell has pulled off in Ohio. From what I've read, the numbers are simply impossible vis-a-vis the tracking polls.

He has defeated sensible initiatives that would have made things fair. It is inconceivable that any voter in their right mind wouldn't want these changes.

You can read about this here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=5449368

Why isn't everyone going nuts about this?

I am ready to fight, but I just don't even know where to begin. Is there anything we can realistically do in response to this? What kind of legal remedies might there be available?

Blackwell seems to thumbing his nose at us saying "Sure we rigged it, and there's not a damn thing you can do to stop us."

This is driving me mad.

[mrcheerful]

1. Because right now

theres nothing much we can do about it. Once GW and the repukes are out things might change and hopefully the dems will be pissed off enough about what happened these last 5 years they will go after them. But again until then, we have to deal with the present system of corruption from the white house on down. Kind of hard when the repukes own everything and they don't want the truth to come out.

[femrap]

48. I will no longer look for a 'hero' or 'heroine.' The

people control this democracy. We have the power to make changes. It is a matter of deciding to ACT.

I don't buy into this defeatist attitude that we can't do anything since we are the minority.

I also realize that many Democrats are NOT fighting for fair elections. Again...we the PEOPLE are in control of our Democracy.

Stand up and fight.

[proud patriot]

2. Tell everyone you know

Help make this a priority :hug:

[EFerrari]

3. And, now McPherson is following suit in California.

Yes, talk to everyone about it. Slowly, we get it into the culture. It's a slog but it IS happening.

Don't be misled by the arrogance. Look where it got the Republican Party. :hi:

[Ladyhawk]

8. I'm scared to death for California. I love this state so much.

In my youth, I got to travel a lot with the chorus and once made a trip to the Washington, D.C. area. The travel was nice, but I developed a real appreciation for California. It's a beautiful state with a great climate and different types of ecosystems: a little something for everyone. I especially love the mountains and beachfront. Yummy. The valley has to exist to keep the mountains and ocean lovely. :) After reading Steinbeck's East of Eden I realized some people actually like the valley, too, so hey! :shrug: :D

I'm sure you all feel the same way about your own home states. The thing is, I don't want California to turn to the dark side and I feel SO SORRY for Ohioans and Floridians. Sigh. :(

[EFerrari]

12. They won't take us easy.

I called McPherson's office last week and said to a poor staffer, "Whaddya think this is, OHIO?!"

He, ah, didn't have a comeback. And, I apologize to Ohio. I was pissed.



(Lol! I've got to get that MAC outta Doug's hands so I can make McPherson green without pixelating him. On the other hand . . .)

[femrap]

50. Being born and raised in Ohio, but having lived in

beautiful California for going on 15 years....YOU GIVE THAT BRUCE ALL YOU GOT! And use OHIO as an example of Demcracy in the TOILET!

Get the Nurses Union to help! Seriously, they are very organized and am sure enjoy Democracy.

[EFerrari]

64. The Nurses Union and our firefighters just saved California

in the last election. If we can fight off the voting eating machines, it will be in part because they mobilized the state. They are my heroes!

:)

[toymachines]

44. I am with you all the way.

Cali has to remain a beacon of progress. Dam repugs tryin to steal our votes and destroy our beautiful state.

[Arugula Latte]

39. Someone mentioned that Jay Leno had a joke about

rigged voting machines, along the lines of "the voting machines show that Jeb Bush has already won in 2008." That was a good sign that this issue is getting in tothe popular culture.

[Peggy Day]

4. I have family in Ohio

I emailed them an article about the 40% difference between the polls and the outcome. The Columbus Dispatch is really conservative and they didn't even question the difference. I try to send them articles that can relay the problems without being too complicated.

They probably think I've really lost it. But, I used to be kind of sheepish about discussing the stolen elections. Not anymore. I tell everyone that I am discussing politics with (or not) that until they fix the machines, all the good intentions in the world won't do a bit of good.

Part of the problem is the media that is owned by 5 white guys. They are screwing us with our own airwaves.

Americans have grown lazy-I'm sorry to say. They would rather not hear about things like stolen elections, corrupt politicians, or media out of control. Just leave me alone so I can pretend that everything is OK.
I don't have the answers either, but I want to email, call, attend meetings , anything I can think of so that I can say I tried to change it before our democracy is stolen.

[EFerrari]

5. Hey, Peggy Day. Good stuff in the Elections Forum.

:hi:

[Peggy Day]

7. I go there a lot -thanks

DU and buzzflash are the two places I visit daily to find out what's going on. I have many on my politics favorite list, but those are my favorites
This site is awesome-I've really learned quite a bit here.
Also, I get some hope sometimes that I'm not the only one that thinks this way.

[Ladyhawk]

9. I need to hang out there more, but I have to admit it's starting to scare

me.

For awhile I didn't subscribe to the "stolen elections" theory and now I'm back to giving it serious thought. At the very least it will cause voters to lose faith in the election process, which compromises elections in and of itself.

This sucks. :(

[MercutioATC]

6. I LIVE in Ohio and I'm not buying it.

Are there irregularities? Sure. There always HAVE been.

Is it something to fix. Absolutely.


Were the 2004 and 2005 elections in Ohio rigged? I just don't see it.

[EFerrari]

10. Well, then it might behoove you to write to John Conyers, to the GAO

to Mark Crispin Miller and to all the people who do see it, plain as day, and set them straight immediately!

:)

[MercutioATC]

13. Thanks, but it's really not an issue to me.

They can squawk all they'd like.

:)

(BTW, the GAO hasn't found any manipulation of the votes...)

[Media_Lies_Daily]

17. Free and unfettered elections should be an issue for EVERY American,....

...and if you're not an American, you should be VERY concerned about the people that have been in control of the U. S. since December 2000.

[MercutioATC]

18. You're misunderstanding me.

I know irregularities exist. That's something to be corrected.

However, I haven't seen any indication of manipulation in Ohio (which seems to be the concern of the OP).

[roseBudd]

31. That's just it, you would not see it because there is nothing to see ...

because computers count the votes and there literally is nothing to see.

But 68 Shoop Votetronics sitting on a truck in Franklin County that never got delivered besides pleas from poll workers in democratically leaning precints is a type of fraud.

Small white circular stickers placed on optiscan ballots in Clermont County is a type of fraud.

A vote cast at the wrong precinct/right polling location in a multiprecinct polling location not being counted beacuse Ken Blackwell repeatedly went to court to prevent it from being counted is a type of fraud.

Flyers distributed in black neighborhoods on NAACP letterhead (forged) telling Dems to vote on Nov. 3 is a type of fraud.

And those are just the kinds of fraud you can see. No one knows what Warren County BoE did because independent observation was blocked.

I am in Ohio and I do see it, but barring a whistleblower or a criminal investigation that allowed the evidence to be seized and examined, there is nothing I can do to prove it.

Fraud: n. the intentional use of deceit, a trick or some dishonest means to deprive another of his/her/its money, property or a legal right.2

Constructive fraud: n.when the circumstances show that someone's actions give him/her an unfair advantage over another by unfair means ... the court may decide from the methods used and the result that it should treat the situation as if there was actual fraud even if all the technical elements of fraud have not been proven.3

[babylonsister]

59. rosebud57, you have my thanks for fighting! NT

[druidity33]

43. Math background?

did you read the link from the original post all the way through? Because the "i don't see it" argument doesn't quite hold up if you stopped paying attention somewhere in the middle. As i see it VOTING IS THE MOST IMPORTANT INSTITUTION IN A DEMOCRATIC SOCIETY... if there was ever even a little doubt, we should have stopped the results, verified the integrity of the system, and RE-VOTED. Otherwise, any result is suspect. As for me, i am better with images than numbers... but i have a friend who is an actuary (one of those guys who figures out statistics for insurance companies) and he has looked over the numbers (staunch Rethug) and he is CONVINCED that props 2-5 in Ohio a few weeks ago were rigged and that 2 and 3 were outright stolen. Numbers and statistics just don't lie and the discrepencies go far beyond random anomalies and chaos theory. What's sad is that if this were a transparent process, nobody would be arguing, we would be able to check the process ourselves. The fight isn't because we know it was stolen, it's because without the investigation and subsequent transparency we will never REALLY know if it wasn't stolen
Sorry, hope i wasn't being harsh... had a blowout with the Dad-inlaw over Tofurkey Day about just this issue. He had not heard of the GAO report (not surprising) and refused to admit it was possible to "steal" an election. What kind of proof would change your mind?

[MercutioATC]

60. As I said, the polling done beforehand was, perhaps, flawed.

I'm not disputing that's possible to steal an election. I just haven't seen anything that convinces me that it's been done here in Ohio. The way Props. 2-5 were "promoted", I'm really not surprised that they failed.

[druidity33]

70. agree and disagree...

Yes, the DNC had and always has had issues in Ohio. So much more could have been done. But there are a couple of things. First, the burden of proof does not rest with the voting public. It is not for us to prove the integrity of the system... THEY are supposed to prove that to us! Second, do you know the Dispatch's record on exit polling? They've been at it for 40 years or so and have (wish i could find the link) never been off by more than like 1.8 points.... and we're looking at numbers for 4 props in the same election in which the polls were off in some cases by as many as 40 points. Again, numbers don't lie. My Science friends despite their varied political standpoints understand something of STATISTICAL IMPOSSIBILITY... and yes, this would qualify. How much of your own digging have you done? You must read the Wasserman Fitzrakis article if you haven't:
http://www.freepress.org/departments/display/19/2005/1559
I think presented with all the evidence available to the voting public, most reasonable people would come to the conclusion that these past few elections have been manipulated. And that the system itself tends to favor middle to upper class educated people... the what-ifs and if-onlys i'll leave to other folk... but right now i think everyone should be DEMANDING TRANSPARENCY in the next round of elections. And federal laws should be passed regarding partisan election boards, redistricting reform, ballot counting, etc. Hope we can work together on some of these things. Peace out.

[petgoat]

49. indication of manipulation in Ohio

I guess you never never read the Conyers report, "Preserving Democracy:
What Went Wrong in Ohio".

"We have found numerous, serious election irregularities in the Ohio
presidential election, which resulted in a significant
disenfranchisement of voters. Cumulatively, these irregularities,
which affected hundreds of thousand of votes and voters in Ohio, raise
grave doubts regarding whether it can be said the Ohio electors
selected on December 13, 2004, were chosen in a manner that conforms
to Ohio law, let alone federal requirements and constitutional
standards....

There were massive and unprecedented voter irregularities and
anomalies in Ohio. In many cases these irregularities were caused by
intentional misconduct and illegal behavior, much of it involving
Secretary of State J. Kenneth Blackwell, the co-chair of the
Bush-Cheney campaign in Ohio."

http://www.truthout.org/docs_05/010605Y.shtml

pdf of 107-page report: http://truthout.org/Conyersreport.pdf



And I guess you never saw this video:

Realplayer version: http://veredictum.com/stolenelection2004-56.rm

Windows Media version:
http://www.edwardsdavid.com/veredictum/stolenelection2004-256.wmv

[annabanana]

47. the "potential for manipulation" should be enough

to get everyone of their sweet fanny adams...

Tell me mercutioATC.. do you trust Blackwell NOT to do this?

[Media_Lies_Daily]

16. Incredible. You're either terribly naive, or something else.

[MercutioATC]

19. Must be "something else"...

...I don't consider myself particularly naive.

[Peace Patriot]

20. "Were the 2004 and 2005 elections in Ohio rigged? I just don't see it." -

--MercutioATC

See what? Two Bushite companies, Diebold and ES&S, counted 80% of the votes in 2004 using "TRADE SECRET," PROPRIETARY programming code, with not even a paper trail in one third of the country (let alone a real paper ballot backup), and wholly inadequate audit/recount procedures everywhere.

So, what is it that you are not seeing? Hm-m-m? How do you prove to yourself that these elections were not rigged? What is your evidence that they were fair and square? Where are you getting your numbers from?

My point is that these elections were NON-TRANSPARENT. Do you SEE that?

That is all we really need to know about these elections. Non-transparent = fraudulent. Period. But there is so much more. Not only were these elections non-transparent (meaning, we have no idea whatsoever HOW the votes were tabulated, or IF the numbers add up, and CANNOT know it), but also there is considerable external evidence of wrong outcomes, as well as evidence of massive anomalies within the numbers that this non-transparent, fraudulent system produced.

We cannot "prove" that these elections were stolen because the evidence by which it could be proved or disproved has been deliberately eliminated from the system.

Your remark, "I just don't see," is an insult to the many official and unofficial investigators, and the many dedicated activists who have worked so hard and so long to analyze this election system and its results, and to save this democracy. Your remarks are lazy and undeserving of our attention, by comparison.

Electronic voting makes it possible to literally flip MILLIONS of votes, in a split second, leaving no trace. But you "just don't see it." Well, you "just don't see it" because it is INVISIBLE. And you also tout this lazy, unthinking dismissal line that "there always HAVE been" irregularities. The difference between a precinct captain throwing a box of ballots in the river, and a hacker that inserts a line of code flipping millions of votes in a split second is like the different between a horse and buggy and a jet aircraft traveling 500 miles per hour.

Your failure to understand the import of this is naive. Your lack of detailed knowledge of this election system and its results is obvious.

Get educated, before you make statements like this.

For an easy to read pamphlet on the perils of electronic voting, aimed at election officials, see:
http://www.votersunite.org

For the GAO report (which established that our election system is GRAVELY INSECURE ), see:
Access to pdf: http://www.gao.gov/docsearch/abstract.php?rptno=GAO-05-956
Text only: http://www.gao.gov/htext/d05956.html

[Stevepol]

21. Thanks for a great post, Peace Patriot. The evidence is overwhelming

it seems to me. Take the latest initiatives in OH where the discrepancy between the pre-election polling and the alleged results (i.e. the machine counted vote tabulation) was like 40%!!!!!

The pre-election polling indicated the initatives would pass on an average of about 65% to 35%. Instead, they failed by 65% to 35%. This kind of result is to obviously fraudulent that it would convict anybody in court.

Add to that the fact that the one initiative that didn't involve the voting machines or fair elections, came out almost exactly in line with the pre-election polling by the Columbus paper (which has always been highly accurate in the past in all of these kinds of elections)

And the OH result has happened over and over and over already, beginning with the 02 election in GA (maybe before that actually) and extending to the 04 election.

But the attitude displayed and the mantra that there's always been corruption in elections isn't one that is uncommon, even among supposedly intelligent people. I presented some of the facts to a poli-sci prof at the university here and he came up with the same objection. It's kind of amazing to me, but apparently a lot of people don't trust their own eyes. Or care very much.

[MercutioATC]

23. Again, I completely agree with the facts you present.

The system isn't transparent (actually, it never has been). The potential for abuse exists. Those ARE serious issues that I agree should be addressed.

However, I don't believe the tallies were manipulated in Ohio. Since no proof exists to prove that they WERE manipulated, all we have are opinions . I stated mine.

Statements like "Your failure to understand the import of this is naive." and "Get educated, before you make statements like this." are shrill and abusive and don't (I feel) contribute to the dialog.

[Kolesar]

28. Posters describe fantastic conspiracies &create big, long threads

I am so sick of these threads and articles by doofuses full of speculation and bullshit. I live in Ohio. I followed the story, too. The only goods we have are the Conyers report.

Such a conspiracy between management at Diebold, their programmers and engineers, 44 boards of elections, and the secretary of state would need to be of a fantastic scale. I think someone would have talked by now if there was a backdoor to the product.

Call me a skeptic.

[femrap]

53. From what I have learned and studied....

'flip-flopping' the votes takes just ONE PERSON..(Blackwell) on a PC. It's not difficult and doesn't take a large number of 'conspiracists.' There is no way to prove the crime w/o computer forensics.

I live in Ohio and all I can say is we are ROVE'S LITTLE LAB RAT!!!!! And now, unfortunately, the experiment is moving to CALIFORNIA!!!!

WAKE UP!!!! SMELL THE COFFEE. DEMOCRACY IS TOAST.

I find it extremely annoying to not only have to fight the slime of neocons, but to add insult to injury, I have to fight head up anus supposed dems.

At least, can you concede that the voting system in Ohio has questions...if you can't do that...you are molish.

[rosesaylavee]

30. You may find this link helpful...

http://truthisall.net/

Truthisall posted on DU last year and his site gives a great deal of detail behind the election fraud in Ohio.

Peace.

[Iowa]

63. Flawless logic by Peace Patriot...

If MercutioATC owns a profitable company, I'll bet his $10/hour bookkeeper makes more than him and sleeps very well at night.

[Arugula Latte]

40. Are you Donald Rumsfeld? I think you might be.

Do you pose questions and then answer them yourself? Yes, you do.

[mod mom]

45. Then you haven't looked too hard. Funny, we were able to convince

John Conyers and the House Judiciary Dem Legal Staff , the GAO Report on Electonic Voting Machines, but not you. You might want to read the DNC Resolution on Election Reform dated 11/19/2005.

[MercutioATC]

61. I don't see that the GAO has been "convinced" of anything...

...other than the fact that it's possible to steal an election (which is something plenty of people have figured out). There was no evidence of manipulation of the votes that I've seen.

[roseBudd]

72. Because you personally have not seized and examined the machines, the

ballots, the poll books so they can be forensically audited and examined. Of course you haven't. So literally you haven't seen. Anything.

[MercutioATC]

79. No proof the GAO's seen, either...

[roseBudd]

81. the GAO did not seize or analyze anthing. They did not pore over literally

thousands of lines of proprietary secret programming code. The GAO analyzed data, not evidence.

Fraudulent tabulation can be triggered by a time, a percentaage, a series of improbable votes. Only the hand count of the ballots in counties where there even are ballots to recount by hand would determine if there was fraudulent tabulation.

The focus on DREs is because there is no recourse, but the reality is that any computer tabulated tabulation system can be programmed to fraudulently tabulate. The chnace of an automatic recount being triggered is s low that fraud even in punch card and optiscan counties is worth the risk.

[mod mom]

46. If you are sincerely a Dem, then it should concern you enough to

read a few papers regarding the issue. May I suggest the GAO Report as well as these three articles about the recent Nov 8th election in Ohio:

The GAO recently released a 107 page scathing report on Electronic Voting Machines in our country. The report states that Electronic Voting Machines in the U.S. are NOT SECURE, NOT ACCOUNTABLE, NOT TRANSPARENT, NOT ACCURATE, AND ARE UNCERTIFIABLE. A bipartisan panel which included both Republican Congressman James Sensenbrenner (R-WI) and Democratic Congressman John Conyers (D-MI) released a joint news release (a true rarity in these days of divisive politics) regarding his report, yet the main stream media has ignored it's important findings. Here is a link to the GAO Report:


http://www.gao.gov/highlights/d05956high.pdf

*************

Here are three articles from outside central Ohio reporting serious information:


Touch screens' electoral debut in Medina not without glitches


Friday, November 11, 2005




Terry Oblander


Plain Dealer Reporter


Medina- The first-time use of touch-screen voting machines taught elections workers some hard lessons Tuesday night.


Medina County Elections Director Sue Strasser said poll workers failed to deliver computer memory cards for six voting machines to the main office. But even without the complete vote counts, returns were being reported as final results.


The workers, some armed with flashlights, were forced to go back into dark polling places to retrieve the missing cards.


The incomplete results could be reported as complete because the computer program that made that determination was based on polling places, not on the number of precincts.


David Baer, a spokesman for Diebold Elections Systems, maker of the touch-screen machines, said that they can report results in a number of ways and that first-time users of the systems - such as Medina County - often find they need to tweak the reporting programs to get the kinds of reports they need. <------------UNBELIEVABLE!


http://www.cleveland.com/news/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/medina/113170573037600.xml&coll=2


Paul Lehto (attorney from Washington State and Election Reform Activist) Posted this email response he received from the Plain Dealer regarding the morning article on Diebold "TWEAKING" results:


REPORTER OBLANDER'S EMAIL TO ME:

I was told by the elections director that six memory cards were not delivered to the boards from precincts -- one from Wadsworth, one from York Township Hall and four from a polling place in a Brunswick School. The board learned this because the computer keeping track of memory cards flagged them as missing . Final results weren't reported until nearly 1 a.m. apparently too late for any newspaper and too late for the board to even update its own Internet postings.

The board was reporting 99.33 % complete results more than 2 hours earlier --- 10 or 10:30 p.m., I think. We would later learn that only 80 or 85 percent of the votes were counted at that time.

The elections director says this was the fault of a reporting program that determined the percentage of votes counted based on polling places counted, not precincts. She called it a California style of vote reporting.

The Diebold guy I talked to said that was possible that there are many ways to configure voting results. It's the local boards that make that choice, she said.

=====

COMMENT: THE PROGRAM IS FLEXIBLE ENOUGH TO DISPLAY INACCURATE DATA, WHEN THE PROGRAM SUPPOSEDLY "KNOWS" THAT THE MEMORY CARDS ARE MISSING, ACCORDING TO THE TEXT ABOVE


Article published Thursday, November 10, 2005


ELECTION 2005: BOARD OF ELECTIONS

State plans to investigate voting chaos; Tuesday's problems are latest for Lucas County




By CHRISTOPHER D. KIRKPATRICK

BLADE STAFF WRITER



With the final Lucas County vote count from Tuesday's election not released until 9 a.m. yesterday - the last among Ohio's 88 counties - state officials say they plan to investigate the county's board of elections.



Carlo LoParo, spokesman for the secretary of state's office, said the poor performance Tuesday was "frustrating" because of previous strides made, including a glitch-free Sept. 13 primary.


COMPLETE RESULTS

Results"It's an all too familiar process at the Lucas County Board of Elections. We'll begin by interviewing staff and reviewing their preparation plans," he said of the coming investigation.


The board of elections has been criticized by Ohio Secretary of State Kenneth Blackwell, who in April said all four board members should resign or he would fire them because of problems with the November, 2004, presidential election.


snip-

Scene of chaos

But the scene at midnight was one of chaos on the third floor, with the special red and green bags holding memory cartridges and printed tapes of votes lining the hallways, piled on the floor in the elections office, and dumped in a large cart sitting unattended near the elevators.


http://toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051110/NEWS09/511100477

[Name removed]

51. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[mod mom]

52. Tom Noe and his BOE Director wife-Bernadette.

;)

[MercutioATC]

62. Thanks for your medical opinion.

We obviously don't agree on the issue. You'll forgive me if I choose not to attack you personally for it.

[mikelewis]

58. I live in Ohio too and I do see it...

In each election there was motive and opportunity. If you don't believe that they have the will to do it, that's a different story. The motive should be obvious and the opportunity was described in great detail in the GAO report. So it boils down to a question of integrity and I find them lacking. You can shut your eyes if you like and look the other way as Taft and his boys drop another $50 mil in the hands of a Tom Noe. You can ignore the outrageously impossible statistical evidence but please don't piss down my back and tell me its raining. "Are there irregularities? Sure" like how about the irregularity where the odds of its existance is 250 thousand to 1? That's a pretty striking irregularity.

[mzmolly]

11. Can we start protesting outside Diebold headquarters?

We can't boycott banks who use Diebold products so what else can we do? I suppose we could ask our financial institutions to use other vendors or find out what institutions do so?

BTW -

Diebold is located in Ohio:

Diebold, Incorporated
5995 Mayfair Road
P.O. Box 3077
North Canton, Ohio USA 44720-8077

[femrap]

54. That's a good start....

plus at Wally's house in Columbus! Could get some decent press coverage.

[rumpel]

14. A good place is to start by keeping yourself informed of the issues at

Election Reform Forum
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=203

and Wilms has a link to a petition at verifiedvoting.org in support of the HR 550

Learn more: information about H.R. 550 and verifiable voting is available on our Legislation web page at http://verifiedvoting.org/leg

as an example

[Media_Lies_Daily]

15. Just Ohio? It's happened in every state using electronic voting machines.

[Peace Patriot]

22. Bob Koehler has an excellent new column on the Ohio initiatives.

These were the recent ELECTION REFORM initiatives that suffered a 40% flip--so blatant and so ironical. (--polls just before the election said they would win by about 60/40; the NEXT DAY, they lost by 60/40. Utterly impossible results!) We can't achieve transparent elections BECAUSE the system is so non-transparent!

For Koehler, see:
http://www.tmsfeatures.com/tmsfeatures/subcategory.jsp?custid=67&catid=1824

Advice to davidlynch: Consciousness of election fraud is growing by leaps and bounds. Keep at it! It's an organic, collective thing that is happening. There may be dramatic actions--protests, lawsuits, investigations uncovering major scandals, etc.--that can be undertaken, but there is also word of mouth. People are looking for answers--this junta is so out of control. They don't understand what has happened to their country. We have the answer. They WILL find us. Calm down, I'd say. Take a deep breath. Think in terms of heightened consciousness, and the Hundredth Monkey phenomenon. If each of us does our part--simply passing the information to the next person or persons--it WILL become common knowledge soon. It's well on its way.

And what we will have created is not necessarily a country full of activists, but rather an informed populace ready for change--ready to sign that petition, when it is presented to them, and perhaps ready to write that letter, or make that phone call. Transparent elections are a no-brainer. Most people will agree. They just need to know the facts.

We may not be able to achieve transparent elections by '06. But if we create enough consciousness on this issue, then, a) people will be better prepared for the inevitable disappointment of yet more stolen elections, and will be easier to re-energize, and b) people and media systems will be more sensitive to evidence of election fraud, more receptive to the evidence we gather, and more agreeable to gathering information.

We obviously need "parallel elections," independent exit polls, statistical monitoring of the results, and other verification tools--both for challenges, and to obtain evidence to prevent election fraud in '08.

See, for a project for statistical monitoring and challenges of the '06 and '08 elections:
http://www.UScountvotes.org

We have suffered a coup. It is not going to be easy to seize power over our elections back from them. They are fighting us every step of the way, obviously --and are way ahead of us in many respects. They will even throw some elections to us, in my opinion (to keep suspicion off their fraudulent election system, if they must). In California, we recently beat back Schwarzenegger's terrible election and budget initiatives, but right afterwards, Schwarz's appointee as Sec of State, Bruce McPherson, began his major "under the radar" shenanigans to get Diebold touchscreens certified in California.

In Ohio, they've obviously decided that they don't have to do these things "under the radar." They're just out and out stealing elections, and not even being subtle about it. That may be their undoing, though. There is also a new item, as to investigations, and that is Rep. Ney and his role in H.A.V.A. and the Abramoff scandal. This may blow the issue sky high. People are looking into it. All we need is one election scandal surfacing in such a way that it cannot be black-holed--because, as I said, people are ready for the election fraud story. They are fed up. They want to know WHAT'S WRONG, and how to fix it.

Also, when I get discouraged, I think of Nelson Mandela, in jail for THIRTY YEARS--who was freed at last, and became the first black president of South Africa. Impatience is narrow and a little selfish. How dare we be impatient, when others have suffered so much and struggled so long for these basic rights? And, of course, think of our own black population, and their hundreds of years of slavery and oppression, and their incredible maintenance of hope all that time, incredible endurance, and unrelenting struggle. We have been reduced to second class citizens and slaves, and now have to climb back out of that condition, back up the mountain of freedom. All of us together.

I urge patience, and steady work on this matter, in the knowledge that what we perceive about the election system, and what we want to accomplish, are revolutionary. We are not just talking about transparent elections; we are talking about ripping the veil off of a criminal enterprise. We can't let it drive us mad. We must see the long term picture, and the larger political implications of what we are doing, and the historical importance of what we are doing. We are reasserting truth and transparency and accountability. We are re-creating our democracy. That is not a small thing--some little glitch in the system that we have to fix. That is much more like what happened in 1776--a convergence of all the ills that have been inflicted upon us, and our revolt against them all, and creation of something new.

[davidlynch]

26. God Bless You PeacePatriot--Thank You So Much n/t

[freedomfries]

41. well said Peace Patriot

thanks

[lucca]

42. Thank you. I know that I need patience,

but it just gets me sick that this corruption exists.

Where are our congressmen and senators when we need them?
They need to do the work.
We elected them to represent us, to work for us and for the good of the country.
They should have our backs, and they don't.

I give a big "thank you" to all of you at the DU (and elsewhere), working hard for truth and justice; so that we can have confidence in our voting system. (And, what a day that will be!)

I intend to do my part.

[RBHam]

24. Non violent Civil disobediance...

Tried and true.

Gandhi and MLK proved it works.

[McCamy Taylor]

25. Boston Tea Party Time: Taxation Without Representation

Organize a citizens boycott of state taxes until the elections are fixed.


Also, why aremt Ohio residents in the streets right now?

[IndyOp]

27. Burn CDs with movies about election fraud and send 1,000's out for free -

Could we get permission to burn copies of "Votergate" and one or two other short movies about election fraud onto CD's and send 1,000's out to Democratic Party HQ's, Green Party HQ's, League of Women Voters and other groups that would be alarmed if they understood how high tech election fraud can interact with low tech fraud to steal elections? Reform Ohio Now could blanket Ohio with free CDs. If every Democratic Party HQ in CA got a copy it might have an effect...

People will watch a CD/DVD before they will sit down and read "What Went Wrong in Ohio" or a GAO Report or "Fooled Again" -- and treatises like the GAO Report will go over the heads of many people who don't understand the basics of how the system works.

I think that one of the reasons why many of us have been dismissed as 'conspiracy theorists' is that people don't understand the computer systems -- if you think of voting machines as being like your ATM then you have way too much confidence in them. If you know the word 'hacking' but don't know how it can be accomplished and if you don't understand how few people would have to be involved to accomplish fraud on a massive scale then you don't believe it could be true. I know that one reason I believe is because I used to program touch screen machines (over a decade ago) and I could write the program to rig an election like the one Clint Curtis wrote in short order (if I had the antique equipment and software with which I am familiar).

I ran across the idea of burning CDs with movies and distributing them for free on some "be the media" site/article.

I had been planning to post this in Election Forum to get some reaction from folks -- anyone here have a comment?

[Angry Girl]

35. SolarBus.org has a free CD and IndependentMediaSource.com has free videos

http://www.solarbus.org/election/cd/

http://www.independentmediasource.com/video.htm

[IndyOp]

37. I visit Solarbus - had *not* seen the CD - Fantastic!

:wow:

I am downloading now and will try burning CD's this week - my local library and video store will take a couple of copies, so will the local independent bookstore...

On Edit: I found the video on the CD - about Ohio - that I thought they had missed. :eyes:

So:
:wow: :wow:

[Angry Girl]

74. The free CD might need more prominence on the site.....

Gary? You about? In your copious spare time.... hehe

URGENT! Timing is critical to save earthquake victims before winter!

[IndyOp]

29. My Other Idea: Interventions with Political Candidates - like Paul Hackett

The candidates, like most US citizens, resist the belief that cheating could occur on a massive scale. The candidates believe they must be 'gentlemen'/'gentlewomen' and not fight a loss.

I think it might make a big difference to get appointments with strong candidates and have a team of 'election fraud educators' sit down for at least an hour with the candidate. Why? To provide information and to wear down their resistance to believing that fraud is occurring.

The team: people who have educated themselves well enough to explain the computer systems and their vulnerabilities, evidence of past vote fraud, and the seedy connections of people associated with ES&S, Diebold, Triad, Sequoia. If you can get a computer expert to come that would excellent - in California Chuck Herrin would a great presence. (Remember - in Ohio - Triad was the company that 'won' the 2004 election for */Cheney).

I need to get moving on this and get to Baron Hill - Democratic candidate for Congress from Indiana. In the last election, Mike Sodrel 'won' after the GOP poured 10,000's into his campaign and new voting machines were installed in many counties in Indiana. You probably last spotted my Representative when Jean Schmidt was calling John Murtha a coward -- Sodrel was sitting right behind her. I am so proud.

:puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke:

[roseBudd]

32. Hackett knows Clermont County cheated him with their moist ballots

can't be tabulated yet. I hand delivered very persuasive letters written by DUers to his law office. Hackett wanted to run again and experience has shown that Sore Loser4man ruins a political career.

[femrap]

55. He went on vacation instead of asking for Recount....

which in my mind, given the very unusual and 'humid' conditions did NOT result in being called a Sore Loser. And as John Edwards said to Kerry....'So what?'

Are these damn politicians going to stand up and fight for us or not? IMHO, Hackett saw how well he did in Congressinal #2 and thought, 'Hey I can run for Senate....why piss around with being a Congressman when I could be more powerful?'

I don't think Hackett cares about Ohio or its democracy....he cares about himself. I met him twice....and damn is he self-absorbed! Not what I want as a my representative....I want someone who will fight for me and my state.....NOT FOR HIMSELF.

I know others disagree.....and that's OK.

[roseBudd]

71. If he was that self absorbed he could have just called himself a repub

and have a guaranteed win in a GOP stronghold.

[femrap]

76. Too much competition.....nt

[roseBudd]

77. Schmidt and adulteress Pat Dewine are not competition n/t

[femrap]

78. You forgot the ever crazy and religious wacko....

Brinkman. Then there was the tall and robotic McEwen. Isn't Pat an adulterer? He reminds me of Mr. Burns on 'The Simpsons.'

I can't remember the names of the other seven or eight that ran. There was one that was ex-military (his sons are in the military as well) who was ANTI-WAR. That was a shock....I can't remember his name.

I wish Hackett had been anti-war.

[RazzleDazzle]

33. Activists in your state

I think these people can hook you up with whatever's going on in your state:

http://www.votetrustusa.org/

What state are you in?

[davidlynch]

34. I'm in California n/t

[RazzleDazzle]

38. Numerous activists in CA

several different groups as I recall

[EFerrari]

66. California Election Protection Network has a site

and is reputable. So is VoteTrustUSA.

:hi:

[helderheid]

36. I'm nuts about it too - absolutely livid it keeps happening and the press

ignores it.

[Senator]

56. Write to all Newspapers in Ohio

Interstate sniping is something they often find interesting enough to publish.

Since you're in Calif, you could start with something like "and they say we live in LA LA Land, Land of Make Believe, etc...

Since I'm in Jersey, I use the "and they say we're the place where The Sopranos run rampant" line.

Just a thought.

---
www.january6th.org

[pat_k]

57. a couple action items

You'll find some "to do" items here and here.

[EFerrari]

65. Kick

:kick:

[upi402]

67. broadcast email EVERYONE - get them to vote absentee.

paper.
and become monitors (judges and tellers) whatever they're called there.

[AuntiBush]

68. I'm with you, davidlynch. And it happened all over the country.

After reading as much online documentation as possible, I firmly believe the elections have been rigged.

We need to GET RID of Diebold, ES&S and that other Repuk-owned firm.

Read here on DU (no link, sorry) that the owners of the above mentioned voting firms are brothers, if I'm not mistaken.

Is it any wonder they had to get the MSN in with them.

[EFerrari]

69. You can support Bob Fitrakis' run for Gov in OH!

He is running on a Green ticket. But the OH Dems don't seem to engage elections fraud in OH and Bob has been heroically leading the way on it at the Free Press and elsewhere.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x2275194

[lonestarnot]

73. Paper ballots count one at a time in clear view of public scrutiny, a

verifiable simple solution. It can be done and it leaves no room for question or speculation once the votes are tallied.

[dfgrbac]

75. There is something we can do!

We can vote for the National Initiative for Democracy!

The lack of power we, the people, have is our own fault - especially if we let this go on longer. Once we demonstrate sovereignty over our government, they won't be able to push us around anymore.

We can make legislation solving the voting problems across the nation. We have smart people who are ready to help.

[garybeck]

80. ACTION ITEMS for people who want to help save our elections>>>>

The "Be the Media" and "Action Items" sections found here are awaiting you....

http://www.solarbus.org/election/index.shtml#action