Is Cindy Sheehan's work diminished by the financing she is receiving?

[proud2BlibKansan]

I am in the middle of an argument with a freeper. He is criticizing the fact that she is getting money from Soros and Ben and Jerry's Ice Cream. I am struggling to figure out why it matters who finances the movement.

I keep thinking of Tom DeLay and corruption in the Republican party. And the anti abortion movement and its financing. But those are completely different subjects and I want to keep the focus of this discussion on Cindy.

Any ideas for a good rebuttal?

[Stephanie]

1. Show them this >

And remind them that this was on the Thursday after Katrina hit (on Monday), while New Orleans was drowning.

http://www.bradblog.com/archives/00001784.htm



Blogged by Brad on 9/1/2005 @ 8:46am PT...

EXCLUSIVE: Karl Rove Makes Surprise Visit to Camp Casey!
Greets, Thanks Bush Supporters Opposing Cindy Sheehan
Snubs, Ignores Combat Vets, Gold Star Families Who Made Ultimate Sacrifice for Bush's War

CRAWFORD, TX - Driving his own pickup, with two trucks blockading both sides of the street, Bush Administration Senior Political Advisor and Deputy Chief of Staff, Karl Rove made a surprise sunset visit/photo-op Tuesday night to the half dozen or so Bush supporters camped across the street from "Camp Casey" in Crawford, Texas where Cindy Sheehan -- whose son, Casey, was killed in Iraq -- originally made her stand requesting a meeting and an explanation from George W. Bush, The BRAD BLOG has learned from eye-witnesses.

According to supporters from both the Bush and Sheehan sides of the street at the makeshift protest sites, Rove's visit occurred as the bulk of Sheehan supporters and volunteers were enjoying a final "thank you dinner" down at the larger Camp Casey II several miles down the road on Tuesday evening.

The BRAD BLOG has obtained exclusive photographs from Rove's quick glad-handing and back-patting with the few pro-war, pro-Bush stalwarts who were manning a counter-protest site across the street from Sheehan's original camp.

<more>

[proud2BlibKansan]

5. Thanks!

Wow how did I miss that?

I love that "half dozen or so Bush supporters"!! I was there and I can't describe how pitiful they looked across the road in their ONE tent. LOL

[Stephanie]

10. You missed it because the entire world was focussed on New Orleans

Except for George "Katrina Who?" Bush, who didn't return to work until Thursday, and Karl, who was gladhanding the Crawford freepers, and Condi, who was buying $400 shoes and enjoying a Broadway show, and Dick, who was still on vacation and buying himself a new mansion.

[proud2BlibKansan]

14. I just remembered

that after Katrina, Camp Casey was moved to LA. Now which side has a better motive here? Rove goes to Crawford while Cindy's supporters go to help the hurricane victims.

[Stephanie]

15. remember the volunteer lawyer who could not locate his little daughter?

He was posting here - his daughter was staying with friends while they were at Camp Casey, and after the hurricane he could not locate them. It was terrifying but he finally did find her after several very long days. Well then he immediately turned around and went to help Veterans for Peace with relief efforts.

[proud2BlibKansan]

16. yes thank you for reminding me of that

[DoYouEverWonder]

2. I didn't know Cindy was running for political office?

otherwise, why should it matter where the money comes from to support her, unless of course, it comes from illegal sources like selling drugs or something?

[proud2BlibKansan]

6. This was the first thing I thought of as a reply

WHO CARES?

The only problem is he told me last week that Soros was financing Cindy and I said no, that is not true. Now he has proven me wrong so I need a strong rebuttal.

[Divernan]

11. You don't need a rebuttal. You are not GOP, you can admit a mistake.

Don't buy into that Bushbot thinking that a REAL MAN never admits a mistake. The thing is that your mistake re Soros is not material or relevant to the validity of Cindy Sheehan's actions or message.

What's wrong with Soros? Why should anyone have to apologize for his support? Simply say, "You were right - Soros has given her some support. But that's fine with me. I like to see wealthy people use their wealth to give poorer people a platform to spread their ideas. It's not like Soros is buying Cindy's vote in Congress, or bribing her to submit legislation which benefits Soros."

[proud2BlibKansan]

12. Great!!

Thank you.

[zanne]

36. If it wasn't the financing, it would be something else.

When somebody criticizes Bush, wingers will attack with anything they've got. It took them quite awhile to come up with something to use against Cindy Sheehan, so they're sticking with it. If you disagree with them and you're not perfect, then any imperfection will be will be exaggerated and used against you. If you ARE perfect, they'll just make something up and use it against you. It's not about reason--it's all about "winning".

[proud2BlibKansan]

38. That is very true especially when I think of

Michael Moore and all those websites that try to discredit him. And the swift boat liars.

Oh how I despise these people.

[Toots]

43. Yes answer back with the anti Cindy protesters chant "We don't Care"

:shrug:

[proud2BlibKansan]

47. I already told him about them

When he called me an extremist after I told him I was there with Cindy in Texas, I replied with a few stories of real 'extremists' I met there. There was that busload of "we don't care!" and the guy who drove over the crosses and the guy who drove up and jumped out of his car yelling something about Ted Kennedy. THOSE people were extremists.

[Mutley]

3. What does it matter?

Soros and B&J willingly give her the money and she willingly takes it. No laws are being broken. What's the problem here? :shrug:

[proud2BlibKansan]

7. My thoughts exactly

Now I would like to dig up some slime who are financing the RW. Like maybe Abramhoff?

[displacedtexan]

4. 2 word answer: Paula Jones n/t

[proud2BlibKansan]

8. Good one!

But I doubt this freeper would understand the implication. I would need a link.

Thanks, I will look into that now.

[Armstead]

9. Ask him about Richard Mellon Scafe and Sun Myung Moon

They amoug the original and large supporters of many right wing causes and think tanks.

And what the hell is wrong with Ben and Jerry? A couple of guys who built a successful business from the ground up and got rich. Sounds like the American Dream and classic example of what conservatives are always espousing.

Soros? Well, he's a litle shadowy, but compared to Sun Myung Moon and some of the other dark souls behind conservatism, Soros is tame.

[proud2BlibKansan]

13. Yes that is so true

Scafe has spent how many years trying to discredit Teresa Kerry?

[tocqueville]

17. I don't understand the point from the freeper, but what's new

in the US political parties or movements are financed by private interests in a way that would be ILLEGAL in most democratic countries. If the GOP get millions from private fundraisers who are tied to big industries, why couldn't Cindy get money from whoever ?

Personally I think that it is unethical (and anti-democratic) to finance any political movement by other means than by tax money shared against the amont of votes you get in an election. The private funding should be reduced to $100 as a symbolic gesture.

but comparing "little" Cindy's legal funding against the GOP's (legal ?) one is preposterous. How much money are Republican agitators getting from Halliburton et al ?

[proud2BlibKansan]

27. Well, in the freeper world,

Soros and Ben and Jerry's are evil. Who cares why? I don't but I do know they are considered the enemy to the RW. (Which makes them OKAY in my book :) )

[lonestarnot]

18. It takes money to follow bushitler, it takes money for bail and

a sustainable effort. It takes money even to live in a ditch! I have heard this attack too and even from my dem friend, but it is total bullshit. I say I don't give a shit where the money comes from, just keep fighting Cindy! You are worth EVERY NICKLE!

[proud2BlibKansan]

30. The RW are just grasping at straws here

The few smart ones have given up on this debate. How low do you have to go to insult a grieving mother?

[lonestarnot]

35. There is no bottom. It's the eternal pit.

[GR]

19. Soros And Ben And Jerry Have Shown Good Judgement...

Regarding Bush and the illegal/immoral invasion of Iraq. They are not criminals. What's the problem?

This is "guilt by association" and Scott McClellan tried to use it on Murtha by connecting him with Michael Moore. Only Moore was RIGHT about the war saying it was a "fictitious" war fought for "fictititious" reasons and he said that in 2003 and he's been proven RIGHT.

[proud2BlibKansan]

28. I didn't dare bring Michael Moore into this debate

But I agree with you 1000%.

Maybe one day he can finally be viewed as a hero.

[La_Fourmi_Rouge]

20. Absolutely!!

For Cindy Sheehan to have any moral authority at all, she should be sleeping in the rain and eating out of a garbage can, wearing sackcloth and ashes - can't you see that?

[proud2BlibKansan]

29. Makes me wonder where KKKarl slept when he was there

hmmmm

[Armstead]

21. A question -- Did Soros finance her?

Maybe he did, and there's be nothing wrong with that.

But he seems to be a bogeyman the right wing is always trotting out. Like "George Soros financed Air America." he didn't. I'm sure Air America would welcome an investment by him, but so far he hasn't. But that hasn't stopped the right wing from tossing him in there.

[electropop]

23. Is Soros a criminal like Abramoff, DeLay, Scanlon, Ken Lay, etc?

Or is he just a liberal guy with money made on legitimate business, funding somebody who is not (at this point anyway) running for anything, to get justice for her son?

And no, being librul is not a crime yet.

[Armstead]

25. That wasn't my question

I'm not saying there wouild be anything wrong with it if he did.

But it makes a difference whether the notion that she is a puppet of Soros that the right wing is claiming has any validity, or is just anoter falsehood perpetrated that is not based on facts.

[electropop]

33. Anybody who's seen her speak knows she is no puppet.

She is tough, dedicated, and has a mind of her own. If some wealthy people happen to agree with her, that still does not make her a puppet. And I don't specifically know where she is getting her funding. Haven't heard any allegations of criminal sources, and as long as she stays away from that (duh) she is standing on way higher moral ground than your freeper's heroes. There is nothing wrong at all with accepting funding from any legal source! Saying she shouldn't accept funding is totally idiotic - they just want to shut her up. Apparently it's only OK for freepers to be funded. Hypocritical jerks.

[Armstead]

46. I know that, and I'm not disagreeing with you

What I am getting at is the completely distorted view that is being spread by the right wing about all of this.

It's a matter of exposing the spin that freepers are being fed by.

Even if there is nothing wrong with her recieving money from Soros, that fact that they convince people it is true is one of the core problems of why Freepers freep. This ideas of a well-funded monolithic conspiracy of the left.

In otehr words it goes on two tracks:

1)What kind of distortions are people like the freepers buying from the leaders of the GOP and right wing? For instance, MoveOn.org is a grass roots coalition funded by a broad base of grass roots people. Buyt because Soros is one of those thousands (millons) of peopoel who have donated to MoveOn, the right wing mischaracterizes it is "his" organization.

2)What's wrong with people controbuting money to causes they believe in?

If the first "meme" -- that Soros is some mastermind who is driving all progressive and liberal activities -- is shown to be false, it makes it easier to make the second case.

[proud2BlibKansan]

31. I just bring up Scafe

every time they trot out Soros. Scafe is truly evil. Soros is not.

[electropop]

22. The GOP is funded by criminals (Abramoff). Cindy is funded by ice cream.

Do you see a pattern here?

[proud2BlibKansan]

32. LOL

Unfortunately, yes I do.

[emald]

24. all you have to do is ask this person

who finances any of the gopers you might care to use? Abramoff seems to be in the pocket of almost all the pols on the hill. If it matters where CS gets hers than it matters where these "officials" get theirs.
CS is a private person. Speculation on her income is a cheap shot at undermining her and warrants no response.
Tell you "friend" to screw themselves. It's none of their business. Nor yours.

[proud2BlibKansan]

34. Here's what gets me

EVERYTHING costs money. No one came into this world guaranteed a free ride.

And I am glad he brought this up. I told him that since he wants to change the subject from the anti-war movement to financing political causes, then fine, I will be GLAD to have that conversation. LOL

[H2O Man]

26. You do not need a rebuttal.

No one needs to try to justify Cindy Sheehan. There is no need to try to find a rebuttal for those who would yip about where she might be getting financial support from. In fact, attempting to do so only implies that there is some merit to their stance .... and there is not.

The attempt to focus attention on who may be supporting Cindy's efforts is simply an attempt to distract attention from the efforts themselves. In the art of public debate, or in the skill of discussing differences of opinions, that tactic should only be pointed out as being a distraction, and never given any more serious credit than that. By no small coincidence, it is the tactic that only the losing side takes. Thus, you should not invest in it.

[proud2BlibKansan]

37. Great advice

and spot on. Thank you.

[H2O Man]

Certainly.

It's funny that the "opposition" tries to get under your skin with crap like that. I guess what really bothers me, as not only an American but as a human being who feels compassion for any parent who loses a child in this war -- no matter what their political views may be -- is where Cindy Sheehan isn't getting any support: the Bush administration.

The president's inability to have compassion for a mother who thinks differently than him exposes the shallowness of his saying that it is okay for Americans to debate the war. That is an appropriate topic of discussion involving Cindy Sheehan.

[tx_dem41]

39. No it doesnt.

I'm not the biggest Cindy fan around here (though I respect her cause...methodology lately seems to have gone astray,IMO), but her funding does not diminish her.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

40. It takes money to do the things she does

and it isn't like Soros and Ben and Jerry's are evil. They share political objectives. So I don't see a big deal.

Now, if she were financed by AlQueda, maybe I glance up from my poker game.

[proud2BlibKansan]

42. LOL

:rofl:

[TallahasseeGrannie]

41. It takes money to do this

and it isn't like Soros and Ben and Jerry's are evil. They share political objectives. So I don't see a big deal.

Now, if she were financed by AlQueda, maybe I glance up from my poker game.

[Demit]

44. Ask him: Didn't this all start as one grieving mother acting by herself?

And does the fact that more & more people are standing by her somehow invalidate her cause? These are simple human questions to ask your cynical friend.

Terri Schiavo's parents didn't turn away the help of Randall Terry and the Right to Life movement during their highly public campaign to save their daughter, did they? I believe they also got financial support as well. Was your friend critical of them for that?

Also, from an August 25th story which looked at Camp Casey financing:

"...There is also the "Cindy you don't speak for me tour," a caravan of military wives and mothers led by Deborah Johns of Roseville. Her son William is a marine who has served two tours of duty in Iraq.

The caravan is getting a lot of help from MoveAmericaForward.org. It's a non-profit organization co-chaired by former state assemblyman Howard Koologian. Koologian is a Republican who takes credit for launching the recall against Governor Gray Davis. His co-chair is KSFO Radio talk show host Melanie Morgan. The group's PR firm is led by a veteran California political strategist and the firm claims clients running from a county supervisor to President of the United States. ..." http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=politics&id=3382521

Is he critical of them too?

[rman]

45. Have you asked him why it matters to him?

Can't refute if he's got no arguments. I mean, just making a claim is no argument.

And if he's a freep, just how important is it to him that Cindy's work is NOT diminished?

If it isn't important to him that her work is not diminished then i don't think we or Cindy have any need for his advice.

[proud2BlibKansan]

49. He is trying to make Cindy look bad

and me too since I was down there with her. Ever since I told him that, he has been in attack mode. LOL

[sandnsea]

48. That's the free market for ya'

People with money are free to give it to those who are getting out a message they agree with. He doesn't believe the free market should be stifled, does he?

[pitohui]

50. soros and ben & jerry are good guys, right?

what's wrong w. getting financing from them?

there's nothing to rebut

it ain't like getting financing from marion barry or drownie brownie

[JohnnyCougar]

51. Is Hannity's/Limbaugh's work diminished with the millions they are making?

Ask him if the money Rush makes and uses to support communism by buying Cuban cigars has corrupted Rush's mind.

[Lannes]

52. Before she got the money and the PR people

I posted here that it could backfire on her and to some degree it has.Im not saying its improper considering what she is fighting for,only that it would be used against her.I would just point out that she is not wealthy and she should be able to raise money but should also bring up that there arent any strings attached to those donations.

[elehhhhna]

53. IS CHENEY"S WORK DIMINISHED because of his HAL MONEY?

why even talk to such a moran?

You must be a very patient person.

[Mr_Spock]

54. I'm glad she's getting that financing...

The more the better. i gave money when she was protesting in August - I think people who are good cannot be given enough money to spread the good word...

[Karenina]

55. I'd say her work is VALIDATED

by their contributions. George Soros is a very intriguing spirit and those unfamiliar with his life would do well to read up on him. For me. it speaks well of him that he supports her.

Next time I be in the Innenstadt, I be dropping a dime on dessert.

Honestly, P2BL, I can't even imagine WHY you feel the need to defend Cindy to Neanderthals. Simply tell them to fuck themselves and enlist.

[Horse with no Name]

56. I'm out of the loop

Are Ben & Jerry's verboten?
((I say this with dreams of Cherry Garcia dancing through my head))

[Fescue4u]

57. Who Cares? I hope she gets filthy rich

After what she has gone through, she deserves it.

[BuyingThyme]

58. DEAR HYPOCRITE: Republicanism is Corporatism.

YOU BELONG TO A CORPORATE PARTY! YOU ARE BOUGHT AND PAID FOR.

HELLO!?