Help! Information regarding France/Germany & Iraq.

[demgurl]

I usually feel pretty informed about most of the information regarding Iraq and the US. As it turns out, one of my son's classmates has a parent who is a staunch republican. We were talking about the Iraqi Invasion today and, of course, I was arguing against it.

I held my own pretty well until she brought up France and Germany. She said something I personally had not heard before. She said that they were only against the invasion because it would hurt their interests since they had a stake in Saddam remaining in power. I assumed she meant the oil for food stuff. She had said this in response to me saying that a lot of bigger countries did not back us up because they have their Intel as well and they knew there were no WMD's. I said no one had gone against us going to Afghanistan but they knew that the reasons for going to Iraq were bogus.

I am not that familiar with the oil for food scandal and so I did not feel qualified to argue the point since I do not make information up.

I know the RW is going to think whatever they want but I will be meeting with this woman again since we will have a play date. I really held my own on all points except this one. I would really like to know if there is information out there stating why France, Germany and others did not back us up. I understand there are other countries such as Canada and I do not believe they were involved in the war for oil scandal, were they? Perhaps I need to go back over all this information and learn more about the oil for food scandal. Are there any links that can help me with why we were not supported in our illegal invasion?

Thanks for any and all help.

demgurl

[FDR33]

1. Someone correct me

if I'm wrong, but I think the argument goes that France and Germany were against the war because Iraq owed them alot of money that had nothing to do with the oil for food program.
I'm not naive enough to think that this had no role, but like Canada, I think they believed that going to war was wrong because the intelligence the US was parading was bogus.

[Kellanved]

2. That is an old RW meme

While it is true that many countries opposed to the war had dealings with Iraq (Germany not so much as France or Russia), this is basically beside the point. For starters the same is true for many pro-war nations and pretty much all nations had/have far more dealings with the US military than with Iraq.
Also, the opposition was just right. Faking evidence to support a war is OK, but using real evidence to oppose one has to be second-guessed?

Considering the constitutional barriers Germany has against wars, supporting a war on such weak evidence was impossible - recently it was ruled that even the minimal help rendered by Germany was unconstitutional.

[never cry wolf]

3. I believe that France and Germany

had an interest in the Iraqi oil business. I am not sure if they supplied alot of the construction or actually partnered in a way, French and German oil companies actually running the wells and paying Iraq for the rights but I believe there was some connection.

I don't believe that was why they were against the war tho it may have contributed a bit. After all we always claim we need to protect american interests (read corporate holdings) worldwide.

Because the French and Germans had a legal business stake in Iraq's oil business and we did not does not justify us going in to take it for ourselves, IMHO.

No links and no time but I think I am close to the mark.

[demgurl]

4. cry wolf...

yes, I think you are very close to the mark. I think I was just thrown because I had not heard this argument before. (tells you how much I hang around RW people!) I do think it comes back to something that has been bugging me for quite a while. The RW seems to think that saying 'everyone else did it so it must be right' is a legitimate excuse. It did not work when you were a teen so I do not think they have a right to use it on adults. What kind of God forsaken excuse is that?

Thanks for the input and listening to me vent.

demgurl