Has anyone at DU ever heard of DS-MAX or of Granton Marketing?

[jiacinto]

Source: http://wolfram.org/scam/ds_max/

Note: I bold information that I think is the most important.


The author of this information asked to have his or her name withheld, but the author accumulated this information through personal experience. Here is the conclusion:

"I suffered a lot to be able to pass on what I know to you. When I finished with Ds-max I had $80 in my pocket, was $16000 in debt, had a repossed car and not a place to stay. This was after four years of dedidation to the business. Furthermore, there are many more like me who will never write. I am just one person. I can tell only so many people. More people should know what Ds-max, Cydcor and Granton Marketing are doing to people. Show this web site to members of an affiliated office, a government official or a journalist. If you have a web site, link to this information because linking to web sites helps it appear in search engines. If enough people link to this web site then it will appear ABOVE the cydcor, ds-max or other web sites. Good luck to all and God bless."

Source: http://wolfram.org/scam/ds_max/1.html


Ds-max is a supplier. It gets clients and goods to sell for its member offices. Thousands of offices around the world compose the member offices. A member office is an independent corporation that is set up to sell Ds-max products. Ds-max is a global operation that has offices in most countries throughout the world. In the US alone there are hundreds of such offices. Such independently run corporations remove ds-max from liability. The vast majority of people effected by ds-max -- never really actually worked for it; the majority that claim to have worked with Ds-max -- actually worked for an independent corporation licensed to sell DS-max products.

snip

There are two other companies talked about a lot. Granton Marketing and Cydcor. They are Listers. A lister is an advertising company that finds clients for another. Granton deals primarily with the advertising division and Cydcor with the communications. Although these companies work closely with ds-max -- and in some cases have the same people in each one -- they are separate entities.

snip

To summarize, the chain of ds-max I will give an example. An independently run corporation is set up in a given market. This corporation gets all its products from Ds-max and or cydcor and or granton Marketing. The owner of this corporation will be part of one of the divisions. The owner will pay Ds-max for the merchandise it sells and for some legal and administrative fees and pay his own rent and advertising bills. The owner will run his office according to ds-max principles and guidelines use ds-max propaganda and are in contact with Ds-max quite often. This person will put out ads for people to sell his merchandise. In all the divisions save communications, the recruits will be independent contractors. Communication reps will be commissioned employees. So if Joey, a new rep is selling AT&T and he signs up a customer, he will, as an independent contractor for AT&T, gained AT&T a client, by using the product of his office, which is supplied by Ds-max (but not part of it) and Ds-Max got the client by using Cydcor as the lister.

Source: http://www.grantonmarketing.com/

We are an international direct advertising company that allows our clients to harness the power of our 1-on-1 community advertising network to:

Personally invite new customers to enjoy their facility for the first time

Welcome lapsed or infrequent customers to come back again

Generate up to 8,000 incremental customer visits

Source: http://www.badbusinessbureau.com/reports/ripoff67177.htm

D.A.G Marketing ripoff brain washing Miami Beach Florida *Consumer Comment ..They interviewed me today


D.A.G Marketing
Address:
www.grantonmarketing.com
Miami Beach Florida
U.S.A.
Phone Number:



I know exactly what everyone has been through. I went through the whole thig myself, Except I was out of Jacksonville. I did meet some great people that I still to this day stay in touch with but here is what happened.

My day would start at the office at 8:45 a.m., hit the feild at 11:00a.m. , lunch at 3:00p.m., back to the feild, stay there till 8:30p.m., by myself, and then my ride would come and I would go back to the office untill about 11-12 at night unless there was a leaders meeting and then i was there even later. If i made no money that day i would get beraded infront of everybody, about how horribale i was, or if i dropped a port i would get praised by everyone in the office.

They would send you out of town and you had to spend your own money to go and to get back, they didnt pay for anything so if you didnt sell you didnt eat! But not only is it a rip off, it is dangerous!!!! I was jumped out in the feild 2 times. Once here in jacksonville and again in miami when we went for a rally.

Now a great friend that just left the business was blown out, for "not being on his game" as they call it and he was dedicated to them for about 8 months. went everywhere. he was kicked out of the miami office, i met him when i got in the business here in jacksonville. It is just rediculous!!!!! something needs to be done this can not be legal!!!!

Amanda
jax. bch, Florida
U.S.A.

Source: http://www.ripoffreport.com/reports/ripoff66250.htm

DS MAX, Granton Marketing, East Coast Promotions ripoff, scam, debt, lies, deception, drugs Baltimore Maryland *REBUTTAL employee ..Join Us In Creating Excitement


DS MAX
Address:
Nationwide, U.S.A.
Phone Number:



Well,
Where to start. I was an employee at East Coast Promotions in Baltimore. My manager was Stan "Beemish" Bolvin. They were a part of DSMAX, a fortune 500 company or course (not). That was one of the millions of lies.

All in all, I was on my way to management, I was a believer. Wanted to open up an office in the Southwest. My wonderful manager had a huge office when I first started, about 30 people. He boasted of making $300,000 the last 6 months. But soon the people stared disappearing, my manager decided to enjoy drugs whether than work.

Many times I called the office to talk to him about my territory, and he couldn't even talk in a complete sentence. So after about 9 months of hell everyone had quit the office. Where was everyone money? GONE! I had $2,500 in my "security" account that I needed for a downpayment on an appartment, with reciepts to prove it, and he had the balls to say that my "security" account had $180 in it. He then chatised me for questioning him, and think of the opportunity. What a load of dog crap.

So once our office was in shambles, Mark Kernan shows up to "turn things around". He was more full of shit than my Manager was. Kernan would say that I now had the best opportunity to become assistant manager, since there was no one left. LIKE I WANTED TOO. There were many times my manager would come in so wasted then start a fight with someone who wasn't "ringing the bell". Seriously, fist fights!

My manager was arrested 3 times when I was working there. Twice for domestic abuse. Some night he would have our place locked, and wouldnt show up till 10pm or even longer, So I was out about $2,800 when all was said and done. I contacted the head people at Granton, DSMAX etc., to help me get my money back, but nothing. Of course, he then called me a theif, because he thought I had stolen his merchandise. LIKE I REALLY WANTED TO GO DOOR TO DOOR IN MY SPARE TIME.

He always accused his employees of stealing when we asked where our money was. He even called my parents, and told them that I was going to jail bacause I stole from him, I STOLE FROM HIM? We told of the violence, drugs, etc., and nothing. So he skipped town oweing everyone money, and I heard he is down in Carolina now doing the same crap to others I'm sure. I just hope that one day, he returns to Baltimore, and I run into him when no one's around! I have tried to find him over the internet, and one day I will.

I could go on about it all day long, but I have to get back to work, managing my own company, engaged to be married, looking to have kids, and to have a bright future, living life to its fullest, helping people, which is all that DS MAX DOESN'T stand for. As for these OWNERS who think that we are just pissed off employees, wake up and smell the coffee, and drink a nice cup of SHUT THE FUCK UP! Get a life and stop praying on lowlifes to get by.

I hope the truth comes out one day, maybe I could see my $2,800.00? Yeah right......

Mason
Baltimore, Maryland
U.S.A.

Source:
http://www.ripoffreport.com/report69066.htm

DS-MAX / CYDCOR/ ARSENE - LEE ADVERTISING
Address:
5 Thomas Mellon Circle. San Francisco, CA 94132
ALL OVER USA & CANADA Nationwide, Canada
U.S.A.
Phone:
415-656-0363
Fax: -

Well Thankfully I just quite the Arsene-Lee Advertising group (Cydcor) in San Francisco. Evrything seemed to be fine untill I made it in to 'leadership'. I quickly learned how I was stupid enough to be sold on the idea and how i was now expected to help sell the 'oppurtunity' to other vunerable minds. I learned that my leader was giving a bonas for selling me on the IDEA of going to LA.

It made me so sick to my stomach. Sure there may be alot of $$ to be made ( accorinding to Randy Bernard ) but I can not lay my head on my pillow at night knowning that I lied and fucked people over to get all that. To the eyes of Arsene-Lee I am a quitter! "how can you quit on yourself?" is one of the many lines used to make me feel BAD. I feel so bad for the other people stuck in there with NO clue what is going on.

I called, whom I thought was a friend, before I quit and told him what I have been realizing about the company and how everyone is working for a 'cult'. OH BOY did MR. Bernard ever get upset with me when he called, saying "we are trying to seperate ourselves from DS-MAX because of the bad advertisment we are getting" etc ... basically trying to change my thoughts. He wanted me to attent 'one last leader meeting' why I thought!

Any ways I can go on for days about how LOW these owners are.

Something needs to be done. If I don't get my full amount owed to be I am going to do something about it.

I also want to gather alot of people up and start a protesting front of these offices all over the country to stop all the innocent minds walking in there

Melissa
San Francisco, California
U.S.A.
========================================================================

Has anyone heard of these companies? Are these stories ones you've heard? One of these companies interviewed me for a job yesterday. I had doubts about this company so I did some research on it. I did a google search and came up with those links above.

Needless to say, when they called me this morning, I said that I was no longer interested and moved on. Just to see I am going to drive by there sometime in the next few weeks to see if they are still there.

The office was located in a strip mall. It wasn't in a bad neigborhood, but it was in a place where you wouldn't expect to find such businesses.

What is the truth about this? Another guy was with me there when we were both interviewed. The man promised us salaries of like 50-100K and that he "needed" someone "to start on Friday". I was supposed to go on a "second interview" today but didn't. I was so concerned about the other guy that I printed out the links and quietly put them on his windshield. I also enclosed my email so that he could confirm to me that he received it.

And if this is a scam, and it has been going on so long, why haven't the authorities come after them? Is this conduct potentially illegal?

Note: This appropriate for GD because it is about something that is more than just me, but something that could affect others.

[jiacinto]

1. kick

nt

[monkeyboy]

2. Sounds like Amway Meets Scientology

Freaky deaky...

[jiacinto]

7. Tell me about Amway

nt

[IrateCitizen]

3. Beware of any companies that "need" you to start right away

I'm not familiar with this group, but it sounds a little fishy to me if they're looking for someone to literally start "immediately". You can't even get in at Wal Mart that fast.

[jiacinto]

4. I know

But the key question that I have:

Is what this company is doing illegal? And if it is indeed "illegal" then why haven't the authorities come after them?

[IrateCitizen]

5. Ha!

Don't you know that companies can do whatever they damned well please in the modern marketplace? Don't believe me, check out some of the stuff that is being written on union organizing in The Progressive and The Nation.

Corporations are above the law, plain and simple. They can even kill people and get away with it (see food poisoning cases and tainted meat cases for proof).

[jiacinto]

6. But this has been going on for years

You would think that some ambitious state AG would have gone after them by now.

[jiacinto]

8. kick

nt

[KC21304]

10. Sounds like a slick variation of a pyramid scheme.

Maybe because there are a few companies involved it is harder to nail the illegalities down. I would stay far away.

Hope you find something better soon.

We have our son back home with us because he has been unemployed since May. He is a Mechanical Engineer. GD Bush.

[jiacinto]

12. Ok

Yeah it does.

[bearfartinthewoods]

48. googlr multi level marketing

it is a pyrimad type thing but legal.

avoid it if you have a soul because the only way to make money is to rope in suckers, i mean salespeople.

amway
mary kay
fuller brush
probably avon too but they may have cleaned up their act.

[jiacinto]

9. kick

nt

[Wonk]

11. No.

[InkAddict]

13. Jiacinto - check your PM n/t

[jiacinto]

14. I did

I think you should put that story on the board for people to see.

[Beetwasher]

15. Classic Pyramid Scheme

It's a con. Do a Google on Pyramid Scheme.

Why aren't they prosecuted? It's not important to John Ashcroft, that's why. He'd rather bust Tommy Chong. Seriously, the current admin. LOVES these schemes. Their future operatives come from these places and these scams eventually turn into the Enron's of the future. I'm NOT kidding. This is Enron on a smaller scale.

[jiacinto]

17. That's a question that I have

You'd think that an ambitious state AG would have gone after them by now.

[Beetwasher]

19. It's not technically illegal I believe

I think it flirts with the line, though some "companies" do take it over the line and are/have been eventually prosecuted for various types of fraud...Do a Google man, I'm sure you'll find lot's of stuff...This is an OLD game...Someone pointed out Amway, which is a somewhat "tamer" version of this scam. When was the last time you met a real successful Amway employee or known anyone who had an Amway product? It's all about recruiting others to join, that's how you move up and make any money, otherwise your just paying them for their useless and unsellable products/services...

[jiacinto]

20. Ok

What is Amway? And don't they donate large amounts of money to Republicans?

[Beetwasher]

21. Don't know who they donate to

But you've already had a good description of Amway. They're a pyramid scheme that centers around the pretense of selling useless Amway products like soap and toothpaste. Nobody buys the shit, the salespeople exist to recruit other sales people who end up being the only people buy their shit, etc. (hint hint, do a fucking Google search dude! You'll get all the answers you need, yeesh, I'm not an expert but I'm not gonna do the search for you to give you all the answers to your questions)

[jiacinto]

22. Ok

I will do that.

[jiacinto]

23. Ok

I went to their site. Yeah the Devos Family has been donating to Republicans for years.

[Beetwasher]

24. That's not surprising

This is an old game and I'm sure many of these companies are protected as a result of their investment in the GOP. Though somehow I doubt any of them are operating anywhere near someone like Elliot Spitzer. I'd be willing to wager that these companies' HQ's are probably in friendlier states where they have friendly AG's. I'm pretty sure some of these operations HAVE been busted before by out of state AG's who get them on mail fraud. These operations also have a tendency to move and morph when it gets too hot in one locale.

[jiacinto]

26. I think this company is everywhere

And maybe AGs like Eliot Spitzer don't know about them.

[n0_data]

43. Amway

What is Amway? And don't they donate large amounts of money to Republicans?

About five years ago I worked a temp mailroom position at their corporate headquarters. The job mostly entailed processing distributor applications. Thousands of applications came through every day (average cost to the applicant - $35.00) from all over the world.

I found myself constantly amazed at the business they'd built using nothing more than a dodgy pyramid scheme.

But yeah, the Devos Family is heavily into republican politics. They fund construction of various buildings in the city (stadiums, etc) and plaster their names over everything.

However, all their money, asshatery and influence failed to get them a republican governor (Michigan) in office last year...awwwwwww.

[jiacinto]

45. Yeah

I am glad Granholm won.

[dionysus]

16. wise choice for staying away Carlos

although these guys win the Sleaze King award, I bet that everything they are doing is perfectly legal. Too bad there isn't a law against unethical business practices...

[jiacinto]

18. There has to be something about this

that isn't legal.

[Stephanie]

25. This is a great debunking site for pyramid schemes

and multi-level marketing schemes. There are chat boards too so you can ask questions. Very informative.

http://www.quatloos.com/

[jiacinto]

27. I am looking there now

Very interesting.

I am learning a lot about these scandals.

[jiacinto]

28. kick

nt

[jiacinto]

29. kick

nt

[prolesunited]

30. Do NOT take this job

Find something else.

BTW, this doesn't belong in GD. What is the political relevance of companies you're interviewing with .

[jiacinto]

31. Yes it does

This is more GD material because it deals with pyramid schemes and it asks the questions why politicians haven't dealt with these issues.

I think it does because it is more than just about me.

[InkAddict]

35. Ummmm...maybe the states' AG

slush fund gets some of the profits from certain "under the counter" products??? Surely, someone would try to rat out outfits that make off with one's commissions??? Perhaps the workers don't rat due to their own secret habits??? I think General Discussion is a fine place to consider how corporations are intertwined with (employment/corporate)law that seems to only protect them.

Perhaps this should ALSO be posted in CRIME FORMUM because that's what these outfits really seem to be into!

[jiacinto]

36. Yeah

But I do think that either Bill Lockeyer or Eliot Spitzer would be interested in these cases.

[jiacinto]

32. kick

nt

[InkAddict]

33. Listen to the voice of second-hand experience

The quoted thread you posted from "Mason" in
Baltimore sounds almost identical to a "story" with which I am
intimately familiar. In fact, if the cities and names were
changed for reasons of "protection," I'd say it fit almost
exactly.

Like a charitable DEM, I once offered "shelter" to a lost soul
who in desperation took a job with this outfit (see above). I
fought hard to try to break this person out of a circular
pattern of what I believed to be certain destruction involving
serious medical problems, transportation problems, family
difficulties, and more (probable prescription drug
addiction?).

I feel bad that our family could not seem to put a chink into
the armor of evil that was suffocating this young person.
Thank heavens, the person I loved got smart. The relationship
ended badly - but believe me, you definitely don't want to get
mixed up with these local "companies" or the management that
purports to deliver you into riches if you work hard and sell,
sell, sell. It's all delusion, and that's a FACT!

I too don't understand how these outfits continue, but I do know that they open and close their "sites" with stealth and speed. Makes me consider that it's all about a larger "syndicate" that's up to no good in a community! BE CAREFUL OUT THERE!!!

[jiacinto]

34. Well

I didn't go back there. But I want this thread up there so that DUers don't get snagged into this company.

[InkAddict]

37. Just for You - oh so wise and considerate one

:kick:

You did a good thing leaving those posts - I sure hope that other interviewee took the time to examine what you left.

[jiacinto]

38. I hope I put it on the right car

Also I hope that he does email me back. I left my email address.

I was going to leave my phone number, but I was too afraid to do that.

I hope he gets in touch with me. I am really worried about him.

[jiacinto]

39. kick

nt

[jiacinto]

40. kick

nt

[jiacinto]

41. kick

nt

[InkAddict]

42. Kick

:kick:

[LTR]

44. Yes, I used to work with DS-MAX

The company itself has been around a while, started around 1980 or so in Canada. Work with big-name clients. A little better than the Amway/Equinox crowd, but not by much.

It is possible to be successful here, but extremely difficult.

Here's an article about one office in Chicago. They've done pretty well in the inner cities:

http://www.chicagoreporter.com/1999/05-99/0599peddle.htm

I left teh organization with my marbles intact, and am doing well now, thank you. Talk very little about it. Needless to say, I'm in no hurry to go back.

My advice? Stay away from these clowns unless you have a high pain threshold.

[jiacinto]

46. Good to hear it

I just feel bad for those who are scammed.

[LTR]

47. I was stubborn, and I needed a challenge

I thought, "Well, peddling shit on the street is not something anyone can do". I didn't give up soon enough because I tend to be pretty stubborn and determined.

Eventually, I came to the realization that many of the local offices are prone to dismal failure. The Chicago office that was referenced in the article I posted has moved a few times (not sure of current status - lost track about 3-4 years ago). Just about everyone has left (including managers, trainers, etc.).

And I really didn't want to spend my best years working 12-13 hour days, 6 days a week. I currently work rarely over 40 hours weekly, and I make at least 3-4 times what I did there (and I did so-so).

I will say this, the job makes you tougher. I did enhance my personal skills. But if you want that, I suggest the military reserves. Just so long as they don't send you off to Iraq or wherever. Or join the peace corps.

[jiacinto]

49. Ok

Interesting. I am glad that I didn't get any further involved with them. It seems like a complete scam.

[LTR]

50. A link

All this DS-MAX talk brought up some memories, so I decided to do a little investigating.

Check out this website:

http://www.dsmaxtheaftermath.com/

[jiacinto]

51. I have been there

The one downside is that you have to join the group to look at the links.

[LTR]

53. Not necessarily

Just click on any of the links on the left-hand side. You only need to join if you want to post.

I doubt even a Passport username is needed. I wasn't logged in to Hotmail at the time.

[jiacinto]

54. Ok

So why haven't the authorities come after them?

[LTR]

55. Creative bending of the rules

There are no employees save for the administrator (girl behind the desk) usually. The reps are independent contractors, not employees. Pay is solely commission. Health benefits? Yeah, right. Pay taxes? At the end of the year, you get a 1099 form.

The offices are all independently owned. DS-MAX (or whatever they call themselves nowadays) is the 'supplier' of merchandise, and the umbrella organizational collctive of all those offices. DS_MAX minimizes liability by being far enough away from these individual offices. But they supply the product, collect their cut off sales (all merch is consigned) and providing hub adminsitrative structures. They also have good lawyers that open up large loopholes. And, they're undergoing a reorganization that will see them seperate into several different companies. The DS-MAX name will be nore more. Granton will survive.

Lawsuits are cropping up here and there. One involves an owner in New York over unfair practices and sexual harassment. Most that leave just want to put it behind them.

Some day, though, something will happen that will bite these guys right in the ass.

[jiacinto]

56. Ok

I just wonder why no attorney general--like either Sptizer in NY or Lockeyer in CA--has gone after them yet. I am sure that some ambitious politician would love to go after them.

I undestand that why "most tha leave just want to put it behind them". What companies are they going to break into?

[LTR]

57. It's tough

The main company is DS-MAX, with the main office in Toronto and US offices in the New York and L.A. areas.

It gets cloudy after that.

Cydcor is an offshoot, started by one of DS-MAX's co-founders. Granton is another. The clearance products division is apparently now Inovage. Stories I've read say that the DS-MAX name is fading away (due to lawsuits?) and these three names are referred to primarily, along with many others. Not to mention hundreds (or thousands, if you believe the hype) of individual offices and organizations with different names.

And a whole lot of cred. Clients past and present include AT&T, Sprint, Disney, Warner Brothers, many sports teams (NBA and MLB especially), Samsonite, and many others. Bill Cosby spoke at a rally a few years ago. They're one of the biggest companies in the world that few have ever heard of.

Can they be busted? Where does one start?

I found this pic on the MSN group. It's a New York Post article that is no longer archived. But it is one example of an owner being sued:



Scary thing is, everything here sounds 100% true.

But it could be worse. Those outfits that recruit kids to sell magazine subscriptions are truly evil!

[jiacinto]

58. How do they keep credible clients?

Given how scummy they seem to be I wonder why these companies remain associated with them. You would think that their would hurt their reputitation.

I saw the link. I really wonder why they've gotten away with so much so far.

[LTR]

59. Results

When the DS-MAX listers (the ones who sign clients for advertising campaigns) went to the New York Yankees a decade ago, ol' George had a problem filling seats in Yankee Stadium. So they came up with a direct marketing promotion. For $20, a customer could get a big card with a ton of 'Buy 1, get 1 free' coupons. People could get in to see the Yankees for virtually half price.

Keep in mind that sports teams do not make the bulk of their revenue off gate reciepts. They make it on parking, concessions, souvenirs, etc. This campaign got warm bodies into Steinbrenner's house and fattened his wallet. All from a $20 piece of paper hustled throughout the NY metro by a bunch of juiced-up kids. Compare that to the Yankees' own ticket sales force. And it costs Steinbrenner virtually NOTHING! This ploy was copied by sports teams all over the world in promotions with Granton. Dominos, Midas and many other companies have also used the same tactic. It creates traffic that would be going to a competitor.

Also applies toward other divisions, such as Inovage moving Disney product. It's because they can sell alot more of a Disney storybook than a Toys R Us would. Figure an average of 1000 books per office in a two-week time span. Who wouldn't say no to this? Disney has no scruples - they pay Sean Hannity's salary. They don't care as long as the checks roll in.

Cydcor, the communications/utilities packages arm of DS-MAX, ran into some problems with AT&T due to dishonest reps that hurt AT&T's reputation. They pulled out. May have been a few others.

I really think DS-MAX has peaked. With the widespread availability and convenience of the internet, the deceptive practices of DS-MAX can be revealed to the world at a much faster pace. Plus, regular word-of-mouth is traveling faster as well. Most importantly, DS-MAX is very greedy, everyone-out-for-themselves culture. Sure, the gang's all chummy and brotherly, but when shit hits the proverbial fan, just watch how many fingers start pointing and people run and hide. Nobody really gives a shit about anyone there.

[jiacinto]

60. Ok

So basically what these companies do is that they hire people to basically go door to door with coupons and other gimmicks. So the client doesn't know about these practices or doesn't care.

DS-Max basically makes it money then from selling the coupons to the owners. And it is the owners and the people working for them that suffer.

Am I on target here?

[LTR]

61. Reply

Note: I sent this in response to your email message to me, but I felt that there was material in here to be interesting, important and beneficial to the rest of DU. This is the abridged version:

Technically, the business and their practices are not illegal. Unethical? Perhaps. By having 'independent contractors' they can get away with much more. Just like Amway, Cutco, Avon, Mary Kay, etc.

There's companies out there that are WAY sleazier than DS-MAX. Take for instance the ones selling magazine subscriptions. They employ young people, some as young as 15, and send them on grueling road trips. Ever hear about that van crash in Janesville, WI back in '99? The driver had a revoked license and was speeding down I-90 at 80 mph. When a cop appeared behind them, the driver tried to switch spots with one of the passengers. The van crashed and killed seven people. The company itself was exposed as a virtual slavery ring replete with intimidation, sexual assault, and humiliation, among other things. The Wisconsin AG and other states banned them from doing business there.

Links:

http://www.jsonline.com/news/metro/mar01/van25032401a.asp
http://www.travelingsalescrews.info/janesville_van_crash.html
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=magazine+sales+van+crash

Now, DS-MAX is in no way like these guys. Much tamer. A bit more ethical. But independent contractors can do what they want. If one wants to leave them, so be it. They'll try to pull some 'fear of loss' tactics on the person, but anyone can leave anytime. No threats or violence that I know of. The want ads are very vague, but there's nothing really illegal about them. It's buyer beware - direct sales/marketing is not illegal. Unless they're built to scam investors and are blatant about it (Google "Equinox direct marketing" and see for yourself perhaps the sleaziest of the MLM's). DS-Max is technically not a true pyramid scheme (illegal in many parts). They break no more laws than any other company. But they can bend 'em like crazy!

The only laws that are stretched to the maximum are anti-soliciting laws in some places (these are really minor offenses) to some tricky tax issues. But there are lots of legal loopholes that allow them to get away with so much. And they've been in the US for almost two decades, and in many countries around the world with relatively few problems.

The only thing that will really hurt the company is the unscrupulous tactics of some of the owners. There are good ones that have better structure, but for each one of those, there seems to be some sleazier ones.

As far as Granton goes, it is the division that sells advertising certificates door-to-door in residential areas. Cydcor sells/switches customers to phone/utilities packages. And Inovage (the original part of the company) peddles trash business-to-business.

Take a look at the links that you provided for more insight, and especially the quasi-anti DS-MAX site on MSN (no sign-up needed except to post in the forums). I got a lot of insight from it.

As far as how they make their money, I'll give you an example. Let's say a rep sells a $20 certificate. Of than $20, the rep keeps $6-7, the owner keeps $6-7 and $6 goes to Granton head office. Of the amount the owner keeps, he/she pays the expenses of the office, including rent, electric, administrator's salary, newspaper ads, etc. and keeps the rest (or hopefully puts as much back into the business as possible). Just like a real business. Nothing wrong with that. Not everybody suffers. It's tough to move ahead, but it is not impossible. But you'll likely make crappy money along the way.

And clients go along with the DS-MAX approach jsut so long as they're getting positive results and their name is not being dragged down (this gets tricky in Cydcor, where the reps position themselves as being employed by (for example) AT&T). But some out-of-control reps took advantage of some sleazy tactics and AT&T pulled out of the promotion.

Good luck in your job search. And my advice? Stay away from vague classified ads and MLM schemes. It will create nothing but stress, trust me.

[jiacinto]

62. I will do that

nt

[jiacinto]

63. An update

http://www.ripoffreport.com/view.asp?id=67177

The owner defends his company here.

[LTR]

65. Just read the rebuttal

from the owner. He sounds like a real asshole!

You made the right decision.

[jiacinto]

66. I think I did

By the way, is this typical response that someone in his position gives?

[LTR]

68. Many owners tend to be pretty hot-headed

and maybe even paranoid. Which is a far cry from 'protecting your attitude' and 'being positive', which is what they preach to the new folks.

This guy did not seem to protect his attitude in that response. Sounds a little defensive, ya think?

It confirms what I've suspected all along. Owners are taught to talk out of boths sides of their ass! Stay as far away from these fools and while I advise you NOT to harass them in any way (it would really be just a waste of your time) I would warn your family and friends. Then just put it all behind you. The bad don't last long.

[jiacinto]

69. I won't be doing anything else with them

I plan on staying away from them.

[jiacinto]

52. kick

nt

[jiacinto]

64. More information

http://www.ripoffreport.com/view.asp?id=67177

[jiacinto]

67. kick

nt