Tookie to be executed Dec. 13; PLEASE contact Schwarzenegger for clemency

[Sapphire Blue]

Support the effort to save Tookie at http://www.savetookie.org

To learn more about Tookie and his work on behalf of children and families across the world, visit http://www.tookie.com

Governor Dreading Decision on Life or Death
Without clemency, Williams' execution is weeks away
by Mark Martin

It was 1976, according to Stanley Tookie Williams, when he met a young Austrian bodybuilder along the Venice Beach boardwalk, then the epicenter of the Southern California muscle culture.

Williams, who was a hard-bodied weight lifter as well as a notorious gang member, recounted the brief encounter in a book published last year: Arnold Schwarzenegger was so impressed with Williams' physique, he noted that Williams' biceps were as big as thighs.

Nearly 30 years later, the two men are again crossing paths.

With the world watching, Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger must decide in the next few weeks whether Williams will live or die.

Williams, 51, the co-founder of the Crips gang and a four-time murderer who has become an anti-gang crusader and Nobel Peace Prize nominee, is scheduled to be executed at San Quentin State Prison on Dec. 13.

Continued @ http://www.commondreams.org/headlines05/1121-07.htm

[nofurylike]

1. i can not believe this is happening! we can NOT let this happen!!

please everyone, sign the petition, and media blast this!!

thank you, Sapphire Blue, for posting this!



peace!

[Sapphire Blue]

3. PLEASE also call, email, and FAX Schwarzenegger...

Phone: [phone]

Email: [e-mail]

FAX: [phone]

[nofurylike]

6. yes! thank you! i'm sorry i didn't say that i will, i am. and i will every

day if it takes that. and i hope everyone will. this has gone way too far, already!


peace!

[Ladyhawk]

2. Signed, kicked and recommended.

I read most of the letter asking for clemency. If ever a person deserved clemency it is Tookie Williams.

[Peter Frank]

172. Kick nt

[HardWorkingDem]

4. Briefly, make his case.....because what I saw on the news the other night.

seems to show that this is one person who deserves the death penalty:

The broadcast I saw was on MSNBC (I believe) and it said he killed four people, taunted one at the end of their life and is suspected of running gangs from his prison cell.

So explain why he deserves clemency. From your own words please, not some website.

[sandnsea]

5. His rehabilitation

His anti-gang work. We aren't human if we don't believe anybody, anywhere, can ever change. May as well pack it in at that point, we've utterly failed as a civil society.

[monobrau]

136. I do believe in change

And I hope he does inpire others.
Now it's time for him to pay for murdering 4 other human beings.
Why should change release you from that debt.
If somebody murders me, I want them to die for that. That is human.

[sandnsea]

139. Wanting people to die

is not human. It is an extreme emotional response to an extreme emotional trauma, but when that has healed, it is no longer human to wish death on anybody. That's why the trauma of victims was not allowed in the court room for 200 years, it creates a system of revenge instead of civilized justice. Life in prison is more than sufficient justice for murder.

[H2O Man]

159. The person who

commited the murders decades ago no longer exists. We cannot say that all humans believe in an eye for an eye; we cannot say that the four people who were murdered want this man killed.

[Marr]

196. It's awfully easy for us to be merciful.

If I'd lost a family member to this man, I'd want him dead.

[H2O Man]

201. You might.

As someone who has had more than one family member murdered, I find it easier to be merciful.

[Marr]

202. Well, I've had two good friends murdered.

One was a girlfriend shot in the chest by a wannabee gangbanger, for no reason other than the fool couldn't shoot the other piece of shit gangbanger he was "aiming" at.

I disagree with you.

[H2O Man]

203. That's fine.

I certainly appreciate that different people view things in ways that I do not agree with. It's an issue where people are going to disagree.



I believe in reconciliation. I think it is the highest form of justice.

[padia]

8. "Thou shall not kill"

I think is a value we can exercise everyday to show that we are a civilized society. Every time we kill to show that murder is wrong we become duplicit and show our citizens that if somebody does you wrong you hurt them. Does not teach the wrong lesson and perpetuate the savagery that some of us have to live in.

[Sapphire Blue]

13. Hi padia... Welcome to DU!

:hi: :hi: :hi: :hi: :hi:

[nofurylike]

25. well said, padia. welcome to DU. eom

[Freddie Stubbs]

60. Not one or the 10 Commandments

"You shall not murder"

The Hebrew word is unambiguously murder; kill is a mistranslation. The Hebrew Bible makes a distinction between murdering and killing, and explicitly notes that murder is always a heinous sin, while killing is sometimes necessary, and in these cases just in the eyes of God. Thus, Jews take offense at translations which state "Thou shall not kill", which Jews hold to be a flawed interpretation, for there are circumstances in which one is required to kill, such as if killing is the only way to prevent one person from murdering another. Another case is killing in self-defense. (10)
Many Protestant and most Catholic Christians hold that this verse forbids abortion; Judaism does not dogmatically regard abortion as murder (c.f Ex. 21:22-23, and Rashi thereon), although Orthodox Judaism prohibits abortion in most circumstances based on several other prohibitions.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ten_Commandments

[nofurylike]

110. prosecutors who knowingly deny defendants due process, for their

own political advantage, in capital cases, using racist tricks, counting on community racism to let it happen, are murderers.

not killers. premeditated murderers.


peace!

[Moochy]

120. Wow that old dusty book

Just made me give up on 22 years of being anti-death penalty.

The mistranslation is the key! who knew... Fry em all the good book says its ok.
:eyes:

[Bill McBlueState]

178. fortunately,

Our laws do not have to be based on those ten commandments. People might have thought differently about the death penalty in the ancient middle east than we do now.

It's not clear to me that the poster was even attempting to quote Hebrew scripture.

[Marr]

197. That's a good argument against the death penalty. It's not a defense

of Mr. Williams in particular.

This state has the death penalty and Mr. Williams has been sentenced to it. Personally, I'd like to see the death penalty repealed- mostly because innocent people are in fact convicted on occasion. But Mr. Williams is not innocent.

[Sapphire Blue]

9. Do you believe everything you see on the 'news'?

Whatever Tookie's past crimes may be, he has, since his conviction, devoted his life to encouraging America's youth to turn away from the gang lifestyle to which he was drawn... and his efforts are making an impact. Tookie's life has value... the lives of the children that he is reaching have value.

What value is another killing? You obviously accept the death penalty; I do not.

[HardWorkingDem]

12. Torn between its use....but that is not my question....

Just read the piece over at Common Dreams. I'm not here to argue the merits of the death penalty, but am asking why this man deserves clemency because I don't know much about his case, but what little I have learned, his case does not seem to warrant clemency. The piece in Common Dreams also added that he was still violent ten years after his conviction and the news piece stated he still is leading gangs.

I don't' know. Is this true?

[Sapphire Blue]

22. Today he is leading youth away from gangs, from his prison cell.

Whatever he did in the past cannot be undone; what he is doing now is what matters. Lots of info @ http://www.tookie.com/

[nofurylike]

10. you care about justice. you must want to know the facts enough

to look into them. please, please do. and please pass word on?

here is one very important document worthy of our consideration:

http://www.ca9.uscourts.gov/ca9/newopinions.nsf/9B878DF6D6261E8F88256F9C00008543/$file/9999018o.pdf?openelement

-snip-

RAWLINSON, Circuit Judge, with whom PREGERSON,
REINHARDT, THOMAS, WARDLAW, W. FLETCHER,
FISHER, PAEZ, and BERZON, Circuit Judges join, dissent-ing
from denial of rehearing en banc:
In this case, a prosecutor, publicly castigated by the
Supreme Court of California for his pattern of racially moti-vated
peremptory jury challenges, removed all blacks from
Williams’ jury. In declining to take this case en banc, our
court bestows an implicit imprimatur upon the trial court’s
denial of a constitutionally mandated jury selection process.
In my view, the panel opinion contains two errors: (1) fail-ure
to issue a certificate of appealability (COA) to Williams
despite his satisfaction of the standard for the grant of a COA,
and (2) misapplication of the standard of proof to establish a
prima facie case of Batson error. By increasing the burden of
proof necessary to make a Batson prima facie showing, the
panel cleared the way for attorneys “who are of a mind to dis-criminate”
by exercising their peremptory challenges to
excise prospective African-American jurors from the jury
box. Batson v. Kentucky, 476 U.S. 79, 96 (1986).

-snip-
***

and much of interest to read here:
http://www.tookie.com/

thank you!


peace!

[goclark]

169. #1 I don't believe in the Death Penalty

#2 - He deserves to stay in jail for the rest of his life, he can continue to do his good work from there.

#3 - GWB and his criminals have killed more people,many innocent, than Tookie ever did and he still remains the President of the United States and represents us with dishonor all over the world.

If GWB can walk this earth and not look at bars, except to take a drink in them, Tookie sure should not have to die.

I am sure the MSM did point out to you what horrible crimes he did.
I wish they would spend some time on Kenny Boy at Enron. He has killed the hopes and dreams of so many and he chills out in his mansions.

I am not minimizing the crimes at all.

What I am saying is thatTookie had a choice. He could have gone to jail and from there continued to encourage his friends to keep the gang wars going, or, he could work for PEACE.

Tookie deserves to live.

* Bravo to the thread starter -- this is an issue that means a lot to many people who believe the justice system in America is meant to destroy them.

Arnold, a thug and a groper who should be in leg irons can laugh and smoke his cigers with his criminal buddies, who is he to judge anyone!

[Leilani]

7. The death penalty was invented for scum like this guy!

He shot 4 people in cold blood...no need except evil.

Tell the families what a wonderful guy he has become.

[Sapphire Blue]

11. Aaah, vengeance & blood lust! Would you be his killer?

Would that satisfy your need for vengeance? Would that satisfy your blood lust? Does that make you any different than what you accuse him of?

[Leilani]

46. I'm no different than him?

I have never killed anyone.

So yeah, that makes me a HELL of a lot different than a cold blooded killer.

His crimes were not even crimes of passion, let alone, self defense.
Instead they were sadistic, as he listened to pleas of mercy.

[Geek_Girl]

96. I signed the petition thanks for posting

I believe the only time killing another person is acceptable is in self defense or defense of another person. Killing this man now, serves no greater good. But keeping him behind bars and letting him influence others to stay out of gangs does serve the greater good.

[Nevernose]

106. It'a EXACTLY the same; He is pleading for mercy, and you can't hear it.

It would make you a cold blooded killer. No passion (he was convicted of murder, after all), no self-defense (the state reccommended it, after all). He is pleading for mercy, and you cannot hear it. When you cry for another Man's death, then who's the sadist?

Even if he did it, this is one of the few men whom I've seen turn his life around.

Besides, he's never getting out. What would serve the greater good? Keeping kids out of gangs, or revenge?

[Donald Ian Rankin]

162. No, that's not fair.

Believing that someone should be executed is not necessarily anything to do with vengeance or blood lust - that's one possible motivation, but it's a rare one, especially in liberals who aren't personally involved, and you have no justification for flinging the accusation so freely without other evidence.

Resorting to name-calling, especially name-calling when the names don't fit, does your cause no service at all.

For reference, I don't think that Williams should be executed, or that anyone else should be, but I do think that he should probably spend the rest of his life in prison.

[Sapphire Blue]

173. Read the replies of those in this thread advocating Tookie's execution.

"scum like this guy"... "fry him"... "this asshole"... "let the bastard fry"... "give him the juice"... "let the bastard get whats coming to him"... "Pay, suckah"

"liberals who aren't personally involved"? The words above certainly do not sound like the words of "liberals"; these are responses full of vengeance & blood lust. Pointing this out is not "name-calling"; it is speaking to the tone of the responses... and the tone of these particular responses is full of vengeance & blood lust.

If I have not made my position clear enough in this thread, I am advocating for Tookie's death sentence to be commuted, and for him to be able to serve a life sentence instead. I am not advocating that he be set free, as some replies seem to suggest.

Others have advocated for a new trial; if it is warranted, he should have one.

Tookie's execution will serve to end the good that he is doing now; it will not change the past.

[goclark]

187. Well said, SappireBlue

I agree with you.

In fact, I agree with you so much that when I see "blood and guts" replies it furthers my resolve.


Save Tookie from Arnold!!

[Sapphire Blue]

188. The hateful replies posted in this thread are indistinguishable from...

... the hateful replies on that "other" site. It is shameful.

Here's another thread that I posted yesterday...

Nobel Laureates Urge Clemency for Stanley 'Tookie' Williams: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x5445949

Some really good articles in that thread!

[Sapphire Blue]

183. I just went to a non-liberal site.

I found this thread posted there, w/comments from posters there that were very similar to the "scum like this guy"... "fry him"... "this asshole"... "let the bastard fry"... "give him the juice"... "let the bastard get whats coming to him"... "Pay, suckah"... comments posted here.

Liberals?

[goclark]

189. Do you think people that post here

and say thinks like that are really Freepers?

They can't be Liberals and be that mean spirited.

I just don't want ot believe that at all.

But, if there are Liberals that think that way about Race Issues, maybe Blacks should not give our all to the Democratic Party.

They don't deserve our votes.

Huum, I am going to really give it some thought.

Thanks for giving so much to enlighten us all.

We shall overcome some day!

[Sapphire Blue]

190. I honestly don't know, but the replies are very similar to the "other"...

... replies. It's really sad & disappointing. I never expected these hateful replies when I posted this thread... disagreement, maybe, hate spewing vengeance & blood lust, no.

I do not believe these particular replies represent the majority of DU or the Democratic Party... not by any means! I fully support the Democratic Party!

[goclark]

191. It would seem that DU should represent a learning

experience for its posters.

I learn a lot from the posters based on their background.

For example, if a poster happened to be American Indian and an opinion was expressed that I thought was different from my point of view, I would at least respect their opinion.

What concerns me here is when a poster from another faith,race expresses their impressions, based on their beliefs and of beliefs of friends/relatives ---Some, certainly not the majority, start in by saying that person or idea is CRAZY, STUPID etc. etc.

The way I look at it, unless someone has walked in the shoes of an African American,they can NOT tell me that I am crazy for feeling that way.

I may respect their right to think that based on the limited experience that they have had with people of color, it would seem that "another way to look at it would be ----" is the PC appoach to take.

In other words,on a so called liberal forum, I would expect that my feelings be respected and that I not be slammed for my beliefs.

I love the Democratic Party because it is supposedly ipen to everyone.

The Republican Party represents rigid thinking and bullies to me and I can't go for that --- not at all.

[Sapphire Blue]

192. One needs an open mind in order to learn... and a willingness to learn.

Unfortunately, neither DU nor anyone/anything else can open a closed mind. What I've seen in some of the responses in this thread are some very closed minds unwilling to see any other view except their own... and their particular views are unkind, to say the least.

On the other hand, there have been numerous supportive & compassionate responses. I truly appreciate these responses & the posters!

Edited to add: There has also been civil disagreement in this thread, and I appreciate those posters' civility.

[nofurylike]

14. please read the information on this. it will make a difference, i am sure.

http://www.tookie.com/tookie_fact_sheet_10.18.05.pdf

Stan was the co-founder in 1971 of the Los Angeles Crips gang. In 1981 he was convicted of
murdering four people during two robberies and sentenced to death row at San Quentin State
Prison. Stan deeply regrets his gang involvement but has always maintained his innocence of
these crimes.
His trial was based on circumstantial evidence and the testimony of several witnesses, all of
whom were facing a range of felony charges, including fraud, rape, murder and mutilation.
Even the 9 th Circuit Court of Appeals stated in a September 10, 2002, ruling that the witnesses
in Stan’s case had “less-than-clean backgrounds and incentives to lie in order to obtain leniency from the state in either
charging or sentencing.”
There was physical evidence, but none of it pointed to Stan.

-snip-
***

PLEASE find out!

thank you!


peace!

[Endangered Specie]

24. Oh come on...

don't you know the murderer is the REAL victim here... he needs to be nurtured and recieve therapy. Dont worry about his past crimes, hes said hes sorry, isnt that enough for you

:sarcasm:

[Sapphire Blue]

124. I wish you mercy.

[Kipepeo]

33. How will killing him help the families of his victims? Please tell me.

Or of future potential vitims of gangs? How will it help them?

In the case of the latter we know that his shared experience and story and writings have helped turn many young kids away from gangs - you have no idea how many lives he has saved or could yet save.

Don't you think there is even the slightest value to anti-gang teaching and mentoring? You see no value in that? It is worth killing all of that to kill him?

[WinkyDink]

76. Well, I can't wait to read your forgiving words for Dubya and Co.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

81. I'd like to see them punished, but not killed.

I don't have the power of life or death over anyone.

[951-Riverside]

141. The DP should be reserved for REAL criminals and this guy fits in...

4 innocent people died just so this asshole could "redeem" himself?

What a bunch of Bull.

Remember while a few gang members might have been "redeemed" themselves thousands of innocent people died at the hands of a gang HE started not to mention his own Son is serving time for murdering a girl.


BTW does anyone know of Donald Beardslee?

[Marr]

198. Yeah, no kidding. It's a whole lot of misplaced compassion.

I'll tell you this much- if I'm ever murdered, I hope to god that my murderer doesn't get a jury full of "free Tookie" people.

[nofurylike]

15. kick and nom. please nominate this for greatest page! eom

[padia]

16. Done, read and signed

[nofurylike]

19. if you recommended, it did not count it. just checking. eom

[FreedomAngel82]

17. This is why I hate the death penalty!

Sure, this guy has done some bad things in his past but he has made up for them. I wonder if Arnie would execute his own SS dad.

[nofurylike]

27. very good point, imho. eom

[jannyk]

29. Pray tell, how one 'makes up' for killing

four people in cold blood? Not one, but FOUR!

There are not enough good deeds in eternity to 'make up' for what he did to the families of those he killed. By the way, I hear Ted Bundy was a perfect citizen too - volunteered at a suicide prevention hotline, helped little old ladies cross the road - but I'm glad the bastard is dead!

Williams ended 4 lives on a whim. How do you know he didn't kill a future Nobel prize winner, the person that would have cured cancer or just a deeply loved father, son, brother?

[Sapphire Blue]

31. How do you know he hasn't SAVED a future Nobel prize winner...

... the person that will cure cancer or just a deeply loved father, son, brother with the work that he is doing today from his prison cell?

Do the lives of the children he is saving from gangs today have value? I think that they do... they are precious children, worth saving. And I believe that Tookie's life is worth saving.

[Endangered Specie]

101. How do you know he hasn't KILLED a future Nobel prize winner

ponder that one.

[Sapphire Blue]

125. I wish you mercy.

[Fescue4u]

146. His victims don't count

Only the misunderstood killer is worthy of discussion.

[nofurylike]

152. justice doesn't count, only blind bitter vengeance does? sleep. eom

[Fescue4u]

168. Justice cannot be served

Tookies crimes are beyond what we as humans can redeem him for.

[nofurylike]

32. he has never been given a fair trial. it is not proven that he DID kill.

do you care if that is true or not?
do you care if they kill someone based on a racism-tainted trial?

do you believe he should get the fair trial he was never given, before he is killed?


peace!

[seaglass]

51. Are you relying on info at the Tookie site or are you reading the

trial transcripts?

[nofurylike]

63. when there is ANY doubt, we can not let this happen.

there is much to question. either they must re-try him, or stop the execution. that is inarguable.

here is one very important court document worthy of our consideration:

* please see below. i do not know how to do shortened links, sorry.
http://www.ca9.uscourts.gov/ca9/newopinions.nsf/9B878DF6D6261E8F88256F9C00008543/$file/9999018o.pdf?openelement

-snip-

RAWLINSON, Circuit Judge, with whom PREGERSON,
REINHARDT, THOMAS, WARDLAW, W. FLETCHER,
FISHER, PAEZ, and BERZON, Circuit Judges join, dissent-ing
from denial of rehearing en banc:
In this case, a prosecutor, publicly castigated by the
Supreme Court of California for his pattern of racially moti-vated
peremptory jury challenges, removed all blacks from
Williams’ jury. In declining to take this case en banc, our
court bestows an implicit imprimatur upon the trial court’s
denial of a constitutionally mandated jury selection process.
In my view, the panel opinion contains two errors: (1) fail-ure
to issue a certificate of appealability (COA) to Williams
despite his satisfaction of the standard for the grant of a COA,
and (2) misapplication of the standard of proof to establish a
prima facie case of Batson error. By increasing the burden of
proof necessary to make a Batson prima facie showing, the
panel cleared the way for attorneys “who are of a mind to dis-criminate”
by exercising their peremptory challenges to
excise prospective African-American jurors from the jury
box. Batson v. Kentucky, 476 U.S. 79, 96 (1986).

-snip-
***
* note: i just saw that the link does not work. it is too long for DU. you can get to that court doc through this page:
http://www.savetookie.org/
click on the link titled: "Read the 9th Circuit Court Ruling against Stan Tookie Williams."
for now, the above quote from that document is enough to show the kinds of doubt that exist.
when in ANY doubt, we cannot allow this to happen!


peace!

[Kipepeo]

35. game of what if?

"Williams ended 4 lives on a whim. How do you know he didn't kill a future Nobel prize winner, the person that would have cured cancer or just a deeply loved father, son, brother?"

How do you know he hasn't since saved a future Nobel Prize Winner through his first-hand writings and teachings against gang-violence?

btw, he himself was nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize

[TheModernTerrorist]

47. I wouldn't say he's "made up for them" exactly

but I agree with a lot of what is being said. What is the point in rehabilitating prisoners if we will execute them regardless? While I DO feel that murdering 4 people is a terrible terrible tragedy, I really don't think the death penalty does anything, except give the victims' families vengeance, and I was always taught to be wary of that. Also, wouldn't having the FOUNDER of one of the largest gangs in the US as an anti-gang advocate save lots of children from falling down the same path? I don't think the death penalty is anything more than a false sense of closure for the victims and their families.

[Egalitariat]

94. Made up for them? Do you believe that? What is your standard?****

nm

[Marr]

199. He's "made up for them"? Excuse me?

Did he kill one of your family members? It seems awfully condescending to call the murder of four human beings "some bad things". If you want to argue against the death penalty, I'll be right behind you. But there's no way in hell I'm going to argue to give special treatement to some multiple killer. Sorry.

The problem with the death penalty is that you can't be sure the person being executed is as guilty is Tookie Williams is. This man admits to his crimes. Surely there are some better candidates for clemency.

[Endangered Specie]

18. Let the bastard fry,

perhaps you could direct your sympathies to people who deserve it more, say, perhaps, the victims and their families?

By the way, just about anyone can be a Nobel Peace Prize Nominee.

http://www.nobel.no/eng_com_nom.html

[Sapphire Blue]

20. Please see post #11

[Endangered Specie]

21. Sorry, my sympathies are still reserved solely for the victims...

Saying that someone who supports the death penalty is a murderer is kinda like saying someone who believe in monetary fines is a thief.

[nofurylike]

26. killing someone, knowingly without giving a fair trial, IS murder. eom

[tx_dem41]

82. I agree....that is what he was charged with and convicted of.

He killed FOUR people, without giving them a fair trial.

I appreciate that succinct definition of his crime.

[nofurylike]

97. it is not proven that he did kill them. with ANY doubt, that execution

must not happen.

ANY DOUBT.
without a fair trial, there is doubt.


not even to mention the inherent madness of the death penalty, which this case just demonstrates. everyone says, well, we can just make sure to only execute when we're absolutely CERTAIN of guilt. well, in this case, we're not.


peace!

[Sapphire Blue]

58. You have posted several replies in this thread advocating for Tookie's...

... execution. Your need for vengeance is very apparent. I will ask you again: Would you be Tookie's killer? Would you be willing to give him a lethal injection? If so, if you are willing to kill another human being, to take another's life, how does this make you any different than someone that you believe is a killer?

And if you wouldn't be willing to personally execute him, why not? If you advocate for the death sentence, why wouldn't you personally carry it out?

I posted this thread to advocate contacting Gov. Schwarzenegger to stop this man's execution. If this happens, he will remain in prison, where he will be able to continue his work encouraging today's youth to stay out of gangs... work that he has been doing for several years. He has the opportunity to make a positive impact on thousands of children... to change their lives for the better.

Tookie has been convicted of murder. Did he actually commit murder? I don't know, and I am not speaking to this. I am speaking to the good that he can offer if allowed to live out the rest of his life in prison.

What purpose will his execution serve, other than blood lust & vengeance?

[Sapphire Blue]

127. I wish you mercy.

[nofurylike]

23. you do not know the facts. you are taking the word of proven racists.

can you really be satisfied with that, in yourself?

the killing of another because of racism?

it has never been proven that he killed. it has been shown that the state's case was tainted by racism.

do you care at all about that? will you look into the facts? does justice matter that much to you?


peace!

[Endangered Specie]

54. Alright, youre so smart... educate me.

[nofurylike]

66. if you care so little about justice that you won't do your own work

looking after it, i can't help you.

any who really care enough are already consumed by this endless battle against racist implementation of the death penalty in several states, on the increase again.

put very simply:
where there is ANY doubt, and there is much in this case, we can NOT allow a death sentence to be carried out!


peace!

[Sapphire Blue]

128. I wish you mercy.

[nofurylike]

151. generous spirit. eom

[sandnsea]

28. It's justice, not sympathy

Justice is not revenge. Justice has nothing to do with sympathy. Justice is about creating a reasoned and ethical society. What is reasoned or ethical about executing someone who has truly turned their life around? Isn't that the essence of the "Christian nation" we're supposedly founded on? Isn't that at the core of what's different about American justice and eye for an eye justice? Too many have confused revenge for justice in this country. I don't think he should be released, but he should have had his sentence commuted to life.

And no, not just anyone can be a Nobel Peace Prize Nominee. I'm not one, are you?

[nofurylike]

30. important points! you know, he has never gotten a fair trial.

and it has not been proven he killed.
he has now saved countless lives.

if he did not kill, he has served more than fair time for robbery and starting a gang he never imagined would explode as it did. and he works ceaselessly to undo that, which he sees as a horrible outcome of his actions.


peace!

[mondo joe]

59. How many years of attempts at appeals has he he had?

Why couldn't he demonstrate he didn't have a fair trial?

[nofurylike]

100. in the most recent, even some of the judges said, point blank, that

the decision denied him due process.

that's how it is in cases all over this country!

and too many die still denied due process. especially if they are black.

the point is, if there is ANY doubt, of guilt, or due process, an execution MUST NOT be allowed to proceed!

why is that so hard for people to handle? they'd rather kill someone, even when there is doubt, than what? face that bigotted prosecutors railroad people, and for their own political gain?

what harm holding off the execution, while making sure? what harm proceeding with it, without making CERTAIN?

weigh them, please.


peace!

[ulysses]

176. pleased to note

one area in which we agree. :) Nice post.

[Kipepeo]

37. It is BECAUSE I direct my sympathies

to the victims of gang violence that I support clemency for this man who has done so much and can do so much more to end it.

Killing him does absolutely nothing to end violence in our society, so why on earth would I be for it???? Whereas *not killing* this particular man will lend us more years of effective anti-gang and anti-violence education.

[Endangered Specie]

55. Riiight...

this isn't some attempt to save his own skin, and, of course, hes never been involved in gangs while on death row. :eyes:

[RazzleDazzle]

92. There are two kinds of ignorance

One is the ignorance of the poorly informed, ill-informed, undereducated perhaps. This is the kind that's readily fixable tho because the individual involved is willing if not eager.

And then there's the "ignernt and proud of it" variety, the really odious kind, corrosive to society and civilization itself.

There's a story to be known here about this man, an important and frankly hopeful one. Are you willing to make one click of your mouse and check out some of the available information or not?

[Endangered Specie]

103. I have, and what I see is...

murderer who is trying to save his own neck.


There may be two kinds of ignorance, but there is only one kind of gullibility.

[Sapphire Blue]

129. I wish you mercy.

[Sapphire Blue]

130. I wish you mercy.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

161. That's not a good argument.

I think there are many perfectly good arguments against applying the death penalty at all, and there may or may not be (I don't know the specifics) arguments against applying it in this specific case even if it is going to be applied at all, but whether or not he's done good things since should not be a factor.

Imagine how you would feel if someone committed a crime against you, and you were then told that they were not going to be punished, because they'd done other things for other people that made up for it.

That's not to say that he should be executed - I think he definately shouldn't, and nor should anyone else - but his good or otherwise deeds since shouldn't even be taken into consideration.

I *do* think that he should probably spend the rest of his life in prison unless the evidence that his trial wasn't fair is very compelling indeed, though.

[the_real_38]

109. Yeah, I read what he did....

... give him the juice. He was a predator who went way too far.

[Sapphire Blue]

126. I wish you mercy.

[ConsAreLiars]

34. Signed, and emailed

Thanks for providing the links.

I don't understand those who are so bloodhirsty as to lust after death penalties -- they are monsters to me -- but this is one of those clear cases where no reasonable person could claim that any good will come from exterminating this person.

[goclark]

171. Signed and mailed and agree nt

It's hard for me to understand how anyone that believes enough in the liberal Democaratic Party thinking could be for the death penalty.


I will never be convinced.

[nofurylike]

36. from the case fact sheet:

http://www.tookie.com/tookie_fact_sheet_10.18.05.pdf

-snip-

The “star” witness at Stan’s trial – a white man and longtime felon who was placed in a nearby cell while Stan awaited trial and was
years later discovered to have been a paid police informant – also testified that Stan “volunteered” a confession to him. But nearly 20
years after Stan’s trial it was discovered that a Los Angeles police officer had left a copy of the police murder file involving Stan’s case in
this informant’s cell for overnight study. The next day the murder file was picked up by that same officer, and the informant informed the
police that Stan had volunteered a confession to him. In return for this testimony, the informant – who himself was facing the death
penalty for rape, murder and mutilation – was given a lesser sentence that allowed him the possibility of parole and freedom.

-snip-

***


peace!

[Raine]

38. I have mixed feelings

because the man killed FOUR people but I signed it because I think he is rehabilitated and can contribute to society. I think keeping him in prison for the rest of his life instead of executing him is the way to go.

[eridani]

45. But how do you KNOW he killed four people?

All the evidence indicates complete absence of a fair trial.

[Endangered Specie]

56. sourses please...

[eridani]

75. Circumstantial evidence in a racially biased trial

http://www.savetookie.org/tookie_fact_sheet_10.18.05.pdf

[Endangered Specie]

98. I meant reputable sources.

[eridani]

134. All the sources cited in the secondary source are reputable

And they are all over this thread besides.

[Sapphire Blue]

131. I wish you mercy.

[progressivebydesign]

79. uh yeah, he founded the deadliest gang of all..

.. and he's pure as the driven snow.

[VOX]

87. Would you be willing to kill him? Just you--You put the bullet in him.

I don't know -- maybe you could.

I could not, not unless he was trying to kill me. Has he committed heinous crimes? Yes. Has he forfeited his right to be in society? Yes. Should he be killed? I don't have that power, to say that he should have his life taken away. And I don't want my government to have that power, either. That's the way executions have been administered -- we sit back, toke up, and say, "Yeah, kill him. Or her. Fry 'em, they deserve it." Sorry, I can't go tere.

Should he be locked away for good? If he did the crimes, then yes.

[eridani]

95. And subsequently argued quite a few kids OUT of becoming gangbangers

His arguments are credible to at-risk kids precisely because he's been through what he is trying to talk them out of.

[nofurylike]

154. not the deadliest. he had lived his whole young life under the

scourge of the deadliest one.


if making a gang is a capital crime, then we whose taxes fund the deadliest one should empathize far more.

[Raine]

89. I signed it

what more can I do. I'm not going to argue about it. I signed even though I BELIEVE he killed 4 people because I don't believe in executing him for the sake of vengeance. I BELIEVE he can continue to make a worthwhile contribution to society.

[Sapphire Blue]

91. Thank you for signing & thank you for rising above vengeance.

[Fescue4u]

121. Yea California never convicts the Real Killers

Just ask OJ.

[nofurylike]

39. kick

[Withywindle]

40. kick

I don't feel educated enough about this particular case to make any pronouncements.

But everybody who followed the news at all in Illinois the past half-decade knows just how rotten to the core the "justice" system can be, when poverty and racism stack the deck against the defendants from the beginning. Do you have any idea how many people have been sent to prison for decades and later exonerated by DNA evidence or a new trial? (The lucky ones, if you consider spending half your life in prison for a crime you never committed "lucky". Think about the unlucky ones.) Do you want to think about how many innocent people might have been executed? We've learned hard lessons about that here.

George Ryan is a crook, but he made a brave stand on that issue, and you'd be AMAZED at the cockroaches running around when that light was turned on.

[Kipepeo]

44. Please, then do educate yourself

This man will be dead within the month if we don't educate ourselves and others.

Read his letters to youth, his apology, his book - watch the movie. Read the letters from kids he has helped through sharing his story: http://www.tookie.com/mail.html

To me, the guilty or innocent argument doesn't even matter at this point in the death-penalty stage - when I see what he has been able to do for good and can continue to do for good, since his incarceration...that is unique and worth fighting for.

[nofurylike]

41. kick

[nofurylike]

42. kick

[nofurylike]

43. kick. back to kick more tomorrow. peace! eom

[theHandpuppet]

48. What gets me are the RW Christians who support the death penalty

They claim to follow the teachings of the Bible, so how did they miss the story of Saul of Tarsus, infamous persecutor of Christians, who watched on approvingly as St Stephen was stoned to death and who guarded the clothes of his executioners? Saul of Tarsus, who turned his life around and was himself forgiven, now known as St. Paul?

I would rather err on the side of forgiveness and compassion than be absolutely certain of any right to vengeance.

[VOX]

85. Yes. Not to mention Jesus, who stopped an execution...

And, in the process, got his point across to the vengeful crowd with, "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone."

I would make the rather small modern leap to interpret that statement to mean also the first noose, the first bullet, the first lethal injection, etc.

[laylah]

49. Done and

sent to my mailing list.

Why do we kill people who kill people to teach people that killing people is wrong? (One of the BEST bumper stickers I have ever seen).

Jenn

[acmavm]

50. Done. Look, we as a nation have killed tens of thousands. I am not

saying that we here picked up the gun or dropped the bomb or shot off the white phosphorous canisters, but everyday we allow it to happen we are complicit in the killings of innocent people. Are we bad? NO. Did we engage in this barbarity willingly? Hell no. But we (including myself) are not out in the streets demanding it cease.

I know, apples and oranges. But seriously, life in poverty and in the streets is just like a war zone. And the programs to stop it are being cut by the killers on innocents in Iraq every day. Because they love money and they love power.

[nofurylike]

111. exactly! excellent points, imho! thank you! eom

[Donald Ian Rankin]

163. This man probably murdered four people.

Once you remember that, all the justifications and excuses stop looking so relevant.

I don't think he should be executed, but I do hope he spends the rest of his life in gaol, unless decent evidence that he was wrongfully convicted comes to light.

[seaglass]

52. You know what, I'm against the death penalty but it seems to

me that the last place one would look for unbiased information about the facts of this case is on the accused murderer's website.

[Endangered Specie]

53. Every one in Jail is innocent...

didn't you know that
:sarcasm:

"Didn't do it, Lawyer fucked me".

[Fescue4u]

145. Shawshank redemption....

great movie.

[Endangered Specie]

57. here are some articles from CNN and BBC

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/music/4441950.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3070463.stm
http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/11/17/crips.execution.ap/

[Sapphire Blue]

61. Kick

[BIG Sean]

62. Fry Him...He is a murderer...

Sorry, but this earth is better off without some people...and he is one.

[Sapphire Blue]

64. And what about the children that he is leading away from gang life?

Are they expendable, too?

Do you honestly think that you have the right to judge whose life has no value?

"Fry him"... would you do it? Would you kill him? Would that make you any different than what you accuse him of being?

[BIG Sean]

68. And what of the children of the people he killed?

What of the lives he has destroyed with his actions? He gets a pass for that? He gets to kill, then say "Hey, I'm sorry, I will help people now." and that's it?

Sorry, gas him, fry him, stick him on a pole to suffer...Who cares, but get him off the earth.

[Sapphire Blue]

73. He does not get a pass; he would serve a life sentence in prison.

I care.

[WinkyDink]

77. Oh, like there aren't OTHER social workers who AREN'T CONVICTED KILLERS?

Yes, the U.S. just doesn't have anyone but a mass murderer to help wayward youth.

And save your "blood-lust" bit for ole Tookie, 'kay?

[Sapphire Blue]

83. I don't have blood lust... unlike some.

What you don't seem to understand is that Tookie can reach children in a way that "OTHER social workers" can't. He has lived their lives. He has made horrible, horrible choices. He is teaching children today that there is another way, other than the gang life. I don't think, by any means, that this man is a saint, but he is now contributing positively to childrens' lives.

Early in his life, he chose a violent lifestyle, taking thousands with him. Today, he is leading others away from that violent lifestyle. I support his efforts.

[BIG Sean]

167. What better lesson can he teach?

His final lesson to the youth of America!

Kill innocent people and you will be put to death.

Lesson learned?

Thanks.

[Sapphire Blue]

174. What better lesson? Redemption! Lesson learned? Thanks.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

175. You're trying to make too light of his crimes.

Calling killing four people isn't just "a horrible choice" and a mass-murderer isn't just "not a saint" is mincing words much too fine. He's an evil man, regardless of what he's done since.

I don't think he should be executed, but that's as far as I'm willing to go.

[Sapphire Blue]

177. And you, sir, are putting words in my mouth.

I did not refer to "killing four people" as "just "a horrible choice". I was referring to the choices he made in his life which led him into the gang life... those, indeed, were "horrible choices". And I stand by my comment that this man is not a saint; in addition to the murders that he was convicted of, he has, as I've stated before, led thousands into the gang life... I am most certainly not blind to this. Who he was years ago is not who he is today. Today he is leading children out of the life to which he condemned himself. That is not evil.

[BIG Sean]

210. Right...he is not the same man he was before...so what?

Sorry, I really don't understand your argument here. He is a murderer. He has killed a lot of people. So now that he himself is the one being killed he wants to change his life around. Big deal

He is a murderer.

Lets get this filth off of the earth and move on already.

[Sapphire Blue]

212. I wish you mercy.

[VOX]

86. I hear you Sean. But this is the U.S., and not Dominica, or Egypt, or...

Equatorial Guinea, or Eritrea, or Ethiopia, or Gabon, or Ghana, or
or Guatemala, or Guinea...or any one of the small/emerging countries that still allow the DP. Japan and the U.S. are the only two large nations remaining on that list.

The United States (before BushCo, anyway) has been historically the place in the world to which other countries turn when they are hurting. Symbolically, the U.S. has stood for a kind of freedom that has attracted millions of immigrants to its shores. That freedom comes from not giving our government absolute power. Allowing the government to perform state-sanctioned killing, in my opinion, gives the government far too much power.

I agree that the world is better off without some people -- but is the world better off if we **kill** those particular people? I know, they have committed heinous acts, and have forfeited any rights they had to be in society. Which is why I favor imprisonment without possibility of parole for those individuals. If a member of my family were murdered, I'd be sorely tested to not want the perpetrator's death, but I'd hope that I'd rise above it. (I would, however, not hesitate to kill if that act was necessary for self-defense or the defense of my family.)

Again, think about the countries that still have the DP, and how the U.S. fits(or doesn't) on that list:
http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0777460.html
Pakistan, Palestinian Authority, Philippines, Qatar, Rwanda, St. Kitts and Nevis, St. Lucia, St. Vincent and the Grenadines, Saudi Arabia, Sierra Leone, Singapore, Somalia, Sudan, Swaziland, Syria...

[Bill McBlueState]

179. Who the hell are you to make that decision? n/t

[goclark]

193. You are so right, but when you count him in

those that you believe this earth would be better without, remember that your opinion and your vote really doesn't count.

Just like that slimeball in the WH that has killed 1000's of innocent people.

What does he deserve?

Somehow I believe that you think he deserved your vote.

[realFedUp]

65. What do you think Arnold will do?

I am against the death penalty.

[Sapphire Blue]

69. I honestly don't know.

I'm hoping that he will stop the execution.

You can contact Gov. Schwarzenegger @

Phone: [phone]

Email: [e-mail]

FAX: [phone]

[Endangered Specie]

102. Most likely he will ignore this load of crap

and let the bastard get whats coming to him.

(just like our Democratic governor here in NC :))

[Sapphire Blue]

133. I wish you mercy.

[fortyfeetunder]

165. Schwarzenegger will pander to the Bushistas

and allow the execution. Why should we expect anything different?

[BloodyWilliam]

67. I honestly cannot make any judgement either way. But he's no saint.

This guy might have been helping many youths with his writings and anti-gang work, but that doesn't change what he's done. Regardless of whether he murdered those four people, he HELPED FOUND THE CRIPS. I cannot say that he requires capital punishment, but any action has has performed in jail for the good of society, while laudable, has been the partial atonement of his own crimes. For every youth he convinced not to become a gang member, how many dozens have joined the very gang he helped found? He helped start and continue a vicious and brutal cycle of urban violence.

[Sapphire Blue]

71. Killing him will not destroy the Crips or any other gang.

He did indeed set a horrible cycle of violence in motion, and for this, I personally believe he should remain in prison for the rest of his life.

I also believe that every child that he keeps out of a gang today is a victory. There is hope for our children.

[fortyfeetunder]

166. Like the Crips was the first bloodthirsty gang around

He founded the Crips in 1970? Give me a break. We've had urban gangs and gang violence all through human history. How could he have started urban violence decades before the Crips even existed?

[goclark]

194. And the most blood thirsty thug around is GWB

yet he gets to ride on his little bikey everyday.

[liberalitch]

70. Has he agreed to A) go "state's evidence" against other murderers?....

B) has he expressed remorse for his crime?
Because choice A) would save more lives than his pronouncements do by getting more killers off the street
and B) would certainly be a help to his victims' families
If not then..... strap him down.

I say this even though we all KNOW that EVERY gang member popular with the sacred Hip-hop crowd who has been convicted MUST be innocent.
(Dripping with sarcasm)

[MamaBear]

72. I signed the petition.

My folks weren't big on church, but they believed that no soul is beyond redemption. It looks like they were right.

Hope it helps.

[WinkyDink]

74. Well, good for him; he shaped up. IN PRISON. Like he had a choice?

A wee bit late for FOUR HUMAN BEINGS.

You know, this rehab is said also about Charles "Tex" Watson, Patricia Krenwinkel, and Leslie Van Houten: Manson Killers. Sentenced to death, they OUGHT to be dead, but survived due to getting lucky with the California law change.

Manslaughter, maybe. Cold-blooded, taunting murder? Pay, suckah.
Yeah, yeah, racist. Whatever. Crips are good, courts are bad.

[progressivebydesign]

78. His execution could be the ultimate anti-gang statement.

I just have zero sympathy for murderers. Do those who want to make him a saint because he reformed in prison really think that everything he did is not STILL reverberating in the lives of all those he affected? Co-founder of the Crips... how many thousands of heartaches did that man cause because of his starting that gang? How many kids are dying today because of him? Glad he saw the light, but you do the crime you pay the punishment, you can't have a do-over because you found God or saw the light. He was convicted of four murders.... but honestly, as founder of the Crips, how much more blood does he have on his hands?

[SemiCharmedQuark]

80. Right, like executions have been the ultimate anti-murder statement.

This isn't about him being a saint. It's about acting like a civilized society instead of a barbaric one.

[Endangered Specie]

99. A barbaric society is one that puts more sympathy to the murders

than the victime. Save Tooki, poor fellah :eyes:, how about sending your well wishes to the many people whose lives he helped destroy.

[Sapphire Blue]

104. Do you know what I wish for you?

That someday, when you need it, for whatever reason, you are shown mercy.

[Endangered Specie]

107. Whatever you say... I have no intention of starting a gang

or murdering people in cold blood over a few hundred dollars.
(and if I did, I sure as hell would deserve whatever I had coming)

Don't you think you'd get a little ticked off if you learnws that people are trying to save someone who murdered someone close to you?

[Sapphire Blue]

115. Again, I wish you mercy.

And I wish for myself the ability to be merciful. Under all circumstances.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

112. You're right. Like those barbaric countries Britain and Canada....

Why is it always either/or? I do have sympathy for the families of the victims. But that does not excuse an unjust act. I wouldn't let the family torture the murderer, and I don't believe gloating is much better.

[Bill McBlueState]

180. how?

Executions never make a statement like that. People who are executed by the state are either forgotten or they become martyrs.

Do you really expect a young man to think, "Oh, that guy got executed. I'll stay home and play video games."

States with the highest execution rates continue to have high crime rates. It's not a deterrent.

[VOX]

84. Anyone taken a recent look at the countries that still have the DP?

Not to be chauvinistic, or jingoistic, or any other kind of "istic," but in what way does the United States still belong on this list? No more state-sanctioned killing -- I don't want my government to have that kind of power.

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0777460.html
Death Penalty Permitted

Afghanistan
Antigua and Barbuda
Bahamas
Bahrain
Bangladesh
Barbados
Belarus
Belize
Botswana
Burundi
Cameroon
Chad
China (People's Republic)
Comoros
Congo (Democratic Republic)
Cuba
Dominica
Egypt
Equatorial Guinea
Eritrea
Ethiopia
Gabon
Ghana
Guatemala
Guinea
Guyana
India
Indonesia
Iran
Iraq
Jamaica
Japan
Jordan
Kazakhstan
Korea, North
Korea, South
Kuwait
Kyrgyzstan
Laos
Lebanon
Lesotho
Liberia
Libya
Malawi
Malaysia
Mongolia
Nigeria
Oman
Pakistan
Palestinian Authority
Philippines
Qatar
Rwanda
St. Kitts and Nevis
St. Lucia
St. Vincent and the Grenadines
Saudi Arabia
Sierra Leone
Singapore
Somalia
Sudan
Swaziland
Syria
Taiwan
Tajikistan
Tanzania
Thailand
Trinidad and Tobago
Uganda
United Arab Emirates
United States
Uzbekistan
Vietnam
Yemen
Zambia
Zimbabwe

[goclark]

195. Thanks for the list

The so called Leader of the Free World, the USA should not be able to hold its head up on this issue at all.

Shame, shame, shame.

[ShaneGR]

88. what I'm seeing on the www.tookie.com

Does not show remorse or talk about what he's done in prison, it only offers to refute his convictions based on technical issues and plays the race card (I'm black). I'm not saying Tookie hasn't shown remorse for the 4 lives he took, or done good things, I'm just saying I don't see that on his own website.

[nofurylike]

105. it has not been proven that he did take those lives. what he

admits to doing, he not only shows remorse for, but works ceaselessly to repair.

his entire life is about remorse, his actions show.


peace!

[Endangered Specie]

108. if you truly believe that

I have some valuable land on Pluto I'd like to sell you.

[nofurylike]

114. what a joke it is to you. too lazy to do the research to even know how

crass your self-amusing ignorance is.

please do not reply to my posts any more. thank you.

[Sapphire Blue]

132. I wish you mercy.

[mondo joe]

90. Though I oppose capital punishment I see no special case here

that merits special attention. It's nice to see he's made the best of his situation, but I don't see that as a reason to make an exception of him.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

113. I agree.

To me, it is irrelevant if he is reformed or not. For me the issue is capital punishment and why it is wrong in all cases.

[Bill McBlueState]

181. same here

I don't think anyone can successfully play the game of deciding whether a person should live or die. Even those who say that this case requires special attention are implying that there are other people who *should* be put to death, if they haven't done good deeds while in prison, etc.

State-sanctioned killing is wrong, and nobody has the right to decide whether another lives or dies. Thus, we should strive to be equally and adamantly opposed to all executions.

[nofurylike]

116. i work for abolition. may we someday waken sense on that. but

meanwhile, there are too many on death rows who HAVE NOT HAD FAIR TRIALS.

no special case?

[mondo joe]

117. There have been ample apppeal opportunities.

I see no reason to regard this as a special case.

[nofurylike]

118. i have posted the judge in the last appeal saying that he was, in fact,

denied due process he was entitled to. it is written in the court record.

it is up there somewhere. i hope you care enough to find it. i have to run off now. i'll find and post which post, later.

racist manipulation, and outright denial of legal due process is rampant in this country! do you not know that?
so, why would you doubt it is happening in this case, while some here are telling you it is, without even looking for yourself?


peace!

[mondo joe]

122. If he was denied due process why was his conviction not overturned?

Please be specific. Thanks.

[nofurylike]

153. he was not given a new trial, which he is entitled to. eom

[mondo joe]

164. Then you need to produce the judge's statement.

How could a judge find hew was denied due process but not overturn the conviction?

[nofurylike]

185. posts #10 and 63

this is by one of several judges on that hearing. from court docs. third time i am posting this on this thread. PLEASE, IF you care about justice, look more deeply into this!


RAWLINSON, Circuit Judge, with whom PREGERSON,
REINHARDT, THOMAS, WARDLAW, W. FLETCHER,
FISHER, PAEZ, and BERZON, Circuit Judges join, dissent-ing
from denial of rehearing en banc:
In this case, a prosecutor, publicly castigated by the
Supreme Court of California for his pattern of racially moti-vated
peremptory jury challenges, removed all blacks from
Williams’ jury. In declining to take this case en banc, our
court bestows an implicit imprimatur upon the trial court’s
denial of a constitutionally mandated jury selection process.
In my view, the panel opinion contains two errors: (1) fail-ure
to issue a certificate of appealability (COA) to Williams
despite his satisfaction of the standard for the grant of a COA,
and (2) misapplication of the standard of proof to establish a
prima facie case of Batson error. By increasing the burden of
proof necessary to make a Batson prima facie showing, the
panel cleared the way for attorneys “who are of a mind to dis-criminate”
by exercising their peremptory challenges to
excise prospective African-American jurors from the jury
box. Batson v. Kentucky, 476 U.S. 79, 96 (1986).

-snip-


peace!

[Sapphire Blue]

93. kick

[Fescue4u]

119. Who do we contact to grant clemency to his Victims?

Once his victims receive Clemency, I'll lift a finger to help with his.

[Sapphire Blue]

138. I wish you mercy.

[Fescue4u]

143. why? I have no hand in his crimes and punishment

This Evil Tookie took the lives of 4 people. Writing a few books doesnt change that.

There is no clemency for them, for his victims. EVER.

This "tookie" has had the priviledge of living 20 some odd years. His victims has been rotting for 20 some odd years.

When the innocent victims receive their clemency, we can then consider convicted quadruple murdering gang leader/children book authors.

If you are religous, then take comfort in the fact that Tookie will receive his judgement soon. If he has redeemed himself, then he will have a good afterlife.

If you are not religous, then take comfort in that this Tookie enjoyed 20 years of additional life that he denied his victims. Consider that extra 20 years of life on this planet as payment in full for writing a handful of books.

Either way. Justice will be served.

[Sapphire Blue]

148. Do you take comfort in your vengeance?

Does the hatred that you are spewing comfort you?

Again, I wish you mercy.

[Fescue4u]

149. LMAO what exactly is my vengence on this clown?

Tell ya what. I'll make you feel better.

TOOKIE!...TOOKIE!... YOU MAY NOW GO FREE! I ABSOLVE YOU OF ALL CRIMES.

I FESCUE4U, FOREVER RELEASE YOU FROM MY VENGENCE.



Please tell the prison I said he can go free.

Feel better?

I wish Mercy on you.

[Gemini Cat]

123. Signed and kicked

:kick:

[monobrau]

135. Fry'em

He's the poster boy for the death penalty.
Unless there is some exculpatory evidence besides the fact that *gasp* white people convected him, there is no compelling reason to spare the murderer of 4 people.
Who the fuck wouldn't turn their life around on death row?
"Gee, now that I'm going to fry, I realize I was wrong".
Let's worry a little more about the people we can save now before somebody else gets murdered.

[Sapphire Blue]

137. I wish you mercy.

[monobrau]

140. spare me your self righteous posing

For god's sake, if you have something to say then say it.
I'm sure you are coming from a good place, but don't address me as if from on high.
I hope you recieve mercy if you ever encounter somebody like Tooky holding a gun in your face, and if I were you I would just cooperate and not try to drop your "wisdom" on them.

[Sapphire Blue]

142. I said what I had to say.

I have encountered much in my life; I have been shown mercy and I have done my best to do the same.

Why on earth would you think wishing you mercy is addressing you "as if from on high"? I truly wish you mercy, not meaning anything other than exactly what I said, and certainly don't mean to offend you.

[Fescue4u]

144. If only "tookie" had wished Mercy on his victims

Time are tough. It seems that convicted quadruple murdering gang leader/childrens book author/nobel prize nominee/vicious gang founder just cant catch a break nowadays.

[Bill McBlueState]

182. except

applying the death penalty doesn't save anyone. It's not a deterrent.

[Fescue4u]

147. If George Bush writes a Childrens book

Will you forgive him to?

Just wondering.

[Sapphire Blue]

150. I am not forgiving Tookie; it isn't in my power to do so.

I am advocating that his death sentence be commuted, not that he be freed. He is a convicted murderer... whether guilty or innocent of these particular crimes, as the founder of the Crips, he is responsible for tremendous violence in our society. Nothing can possibly change anything that he has done in his past, but he can help change the direction of childrens' lives today so that they won't carry on this legacy of violence.

I would not advocate for the death sentence for anyone, not even bush.

[nofurylike]

155. kick

[nofurylike]

156. kick

[nofurylike]

157. kick

[nofurylike]

158. kick

[nofurylike]

160. kick

[Peter Frank]

170. K & R...

:kick:

[Ladyhawk]

184. Kicked again because a life is at stake. n/t

[demobrit]

186. 24 years on a death sentence

Before Capital punishment was abolished in the UK.
From conviction to day of execution was less than 3 weeks .
This Guy has been on death row 24 years .
Capital punishment is wrong , it goes against God`s laws for one ,
It is just state Murder .
This guy is genuinly sorry for what he did , no matter he should spend the rest of his life in prison .
Allow him to continue his work from where he is.

[lonestarnot]

200. Oh like the terminator is going to give a fuck about Tookie or smookie

and anybody elsie.

[The Straight Story]

204. Is there a web site about the victims

And how their families' lives have been afected over the years?

I am not saying to fry the guy or not, it just seems when there is a person on death row we often see lots of info on them with but a blurb about the crimes and not much info to balance out things. The perp becomes the victim while the victims become non-existent except for a brief blurb.

[Redstone]

205. Fuck him. How many have the Crips killed?

ALL that blood is on his hands.

Redstone

[Sapphire Blue]

206. I wish you mercy.

[Redstone]

207. And I respect your opinion.

I genuinely do.

You're pursuing your belief with a great deal of passion, and I salute anyone who does that, whether I agree with their opinion or not.

Redstone

[Sapphire Blue]

208. Thank you for your kind words.

Here's another article you might be interested in...

Stanley "Tookie" Williams: Redemption or Revenge?

Who knew that so many Huffington Post readers would be so thirsty for the blood of death row-inmate Stanley “Tookie” Williams? In my first post on the subject last week I had wanted to avoid the larger issue of the barbaric inanity of the death penalty to try to reach across the aisle to even the usually pro-death penalty people.

If Mr. Williams is granted clemency by Governor Schwarzenegger he will merely keep doing what he has been doing for the past two decades behind bars: trying to convince others not to follow in his footsteps. I tried to argue that as a symbol of redemption he better serves the public good alive than dead.

For example, in the first four months of January of last year thirty-two Bloods and Crips in Newark, New Jersey, had been murdered in their senseless, ongoing feud. On April 11th, Easter Sunday, Redemption, the made-for-TV movie on Mr. Williams’ life starring Jamie Foxx, aired on the F/X channel. Some Crips and Bloods saw the show, immediately went online to Mr. Williams’ website and downloaded his “peace protocol.” By May the details were ironed out, a truce was signed and former Crip Kevin Tate and Blood Lawrence McKinnis now head an extremely non-criminal organization called, “S(aving). O(ur). S(elves).”

<snip>

And if you’re a Christian, you obviously must be against capital punishment, because Jesus Christ couldn’t be more explicit in his condemnation of killing. WWJD? He sure as hell wouldn’t flip the switch.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/trey-ellis/stanley-tookie-williams_b_1913.html

[nofurylike]

209. that is an excellent piece, Sapphire Blue. thank you! eom

[H2O Man]

211. It sounds like

the governor is moving in the coreect direction, according to the news reports this morning.