Kerry: No one has less credibility on Iraq than Dick Cheney

[blm]

My take: Kerry is pushing Cheney to force the debate on Iraq the WH claims they want to have.


Kerry Responds to Latest Attacks by Dick Cheney

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE - November 21, 2005

BOSTON – Senator Kerry delivered the following response to the latest attacks by Vice President Dick Cheney this morning. Below are Senator Kerry’s remarks as prepared for delivery:

“Vice President Cheney is rewriting the reason the Administration went into Iraq.

“Instead of engaging in this kind of political spin, the White House should be trying to fix the problems their three years of incompetence have caused. There’s no time to wait. Half the Iraqi population thinks it’s okay to attack Americans, over 80 percent of the population wants us gone — and this information comes from our one significant ally in Iraq, Great Britain.

“Iraq’s political leaders today called for a timetable for foreign troops to leave Iraq. We should seize this opportunity to force the Iraqis to accept more responsibility for their own country. Iraqis should be policing Iraqi streets, Iraqis should be searching Iraqi homes, and Iraqis should be fighting for Iraq.

“Secretary Rumsfeld agreed with me, and announced publicly they are going to withdraw the troops they put in for the election and the referendum, and bring it back to 138,000, just as General Casey has submitted plans to the Pentagon for a phased withdrawal of troops. Americans want the truth, Americans want leadership that is equal to the sacrifice of our troops, and they want real answers about how we are going to protect our troops and how we are going to be successful in Iraq.

“Again today, Vice President Cheney is trying to avoid the real debate. He continued to insult those of us who think there’s a better way in Iraq. No matter what the Vice President says, asking tough questions isn’t pessimism, it’s patriotism. I believe that during wartime we should ask the hardest questions of all. It’s the only way to do what’s right for our troops instead of repeating the same mistakes over and over again.

“The Vice President continued to mislead America today by saying Congress saw and heard the same intelligence the White House did. We did not.

“Does the Vice President deny what the White House has already admitted — that the President made false statements about Iraq’s nuclear program in the State of the Union address even though the CIA told them three times not to? Does he deny that top Administration officials repeatedly made statements about Iraq training Al Qaeda in weapons-making, despite the fact the Defense Intelligence Agency has already concluded the source was likely a fabricator?

“It’s also wrong to continue to pretend that the Intelligence Committee has determined the intelligence on Iraq was not misused by the Administration. That is why Democrats have been pushing the Senate Intelligence Committee to complete a thorough and balanced investigation into the issue, and it’s why Democrats were forced to shut down the Senate and go into closed session to make the Republicans take this issue seriously.

“No one has less credibility on Iraq than Dick Cheney. His top national security advisor has been indicted. He led the march to war. He fought to kick out the inspectors because they weren’t finding any weapons of mass destruction. And he’s been on the attack - instead of searching for the truth - ever since.

“The Administration should call off their attack dogs, which have been tearing into Jack Murtha - a Marine for 37 years who lives and breathes concerns of our troops, and who acknowledges what our military knows — the huge problem we face of a long term, massive American presence in Iraq. I won’t stand for Swift Boat-style attacks against Jack Murtha. And I won’t stand for their continued misleading, about Jack Murtha and about the truth.”

[marmar]

1. Amen.

The man-pig Cheney only wanted to get his and Halliburton's snouts into Iraqi oil. He is a horrid creature.

:scared:

[gademocrat7]

2. yes, it is all about the oil.

crash cart doesn't know how to do anything except exploit others and lie.

[sojourner]

3. i don't think he is even part human...

a mutated form of life hybridized with pigs possibly. alien, reptilian....not sure I believe in them but much better candidates than any human.

[ProSense]

4. Few have less credibility in the world than Dick Cheney! n/t

[BikeWriter]

5. "three years of incompetence" WOO HOO!

[FlemingsGhost]

6. Finally ... I agree with Sen. Kerry!

It's when he tries to absolve himself from responsibility, regarding Iraq, is when he loses me.

[_dynamicdems]

23. He really isn't trying to absolve himself. He's just angry. Me too. n/t

[kerrygoddess]

7. Q&A after the statement

Here's the Q&A after the statement:

Q & A TRANSCRIPTION

Question 1: Do you believe that the troops should withdraw from Iraq?

KERRY: Over a period of time under proper circumstances, and I have laid out a plan for that. My plan is based on success. I’ve laid out a plan where you establish a series of very specific benchmarks for Iraqi performance, and with each benchmark, our troops should be able to return home. Clearly I’ve laid out a way where we could have made very different choices in Iraq, and I regret that this administration has never reached out to work in a bipartisan way, and has never done the work necessary to put these steps in place.

Question 2: Do you think that can been done in six month time frame?

KERRY: It can be done in about a year. My plan, others have different plans, but in my plan is about a year or so.

Question 3: Do you think the vice president lied to the American people?

KERRY: I’ve never used that word, I don’t like the word. I’ve said he misled America and they continue to mislead America

Question 4: What’s the difference?

KERRY: I think misleading is a question of intent, I think they misled America and are still misleading America. You can fight about the words.

The entire statement and Q&A are posted here - http://blog.thedemocraticdaily.com/?page_id=1223

[blm]

8. Thanks for that , kg.

Interesting that so many get bugged by the word mislead, but it's in Bush's job description to LEAD, and so in proper governance terms he has been MISleading.

[confludemocrat]

10. Bush: Total Victory, Kerry: "My plan is based on success". Murtha: get out

Intelligence test: choose which of the three is different from the other two.

[emulatorloo]

12. intelligence requires reading comprehension

Only the WH is spinning Murtha's plan as "get out" or "immediate withdrawal"
Nor do I recall Bush calling for *no permanent bases in Iraq*, as Kerry has done.

So I would say Bush's "plan" is different from the other two. Esp cuz Bush really has no plan.

[confludemocrat]

29. Who's spinning here? You and the WH.

Lousy dodge. I've seen Scotty McClellan pull a better one than that. But Kerryites are always second best to Bushites with the spinning, hard as they try. Murtha has called for real withdrawal not an echo of Bush. Edwards called for Halliburton to get out. Not JFK.

[emulatorloo]

30. I did not say or imply Murtha's Plan "echoed Bush." Don't be ridiculous.

Murtha Kerry and Edwards etc are on the same page.

Bush is in a whole other book.

[confludemocrat]

36. Kerry is an echo of Bush. Both: stay and "win" Murtha says leave

Win what? What success?

Let me say it again: Bush wants "total victory" Kerry's nonplan is "based on success". No real difference.
Murtha says get out, obviously if you read the papers, not immediately. Kerry fundamentally is an echo of Bush. Nothing about Halliburton as even Edwards had.

[blm]

38. You are twisting it shamelessly for your own purpose. I don't believe your

spin.

Kerry wants out within a year and sees ways to ACHIEVE it. Edwards didn't submit a plan because he doesn't have the military knowledge to do so, so he used HIS particular strength to address the corporate malfeasance connected to Bush's policy.

I am amazed that people fall for the simpleton tactic of pitting one Dem plan against another when they share much common ground and pretend that one Dem has all the answers when it's Dems working tOGETHER who add their strengths to the debate.

[confludemocrat]

39. Dems working together? BS Murtha is alone w/no help from Kerry

who uncharacteristically has "stayed the (wrong) course" and wants like Bush "success" or "victory". Murtha says there is none to be had. He is right.

And don't excuse Democrats, they have been largely silent about the substance of Murtha's plan, defending only his character. And Kerry exemplifies that. At least Hillary is silent and not hypocritically trying to get mileage out of this.

[blm]

40. I think you suffer from poor comprehension or are being purposefully

obtuse in an effort to pit Dems against each other. Everyone paying attention already knows that Hillary spoke against Murtha's plan.

I think you pick and choose Dem names to pit them against each other for personal fun.

[Name removed]

48. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[blm]

50. What in his detailed plan is unclear to you?

.

[blm]

32. Murtha's plan is not get out now, that's GOP spin.

Murtha's plan could possibly be done within 6months but he provided that it may take longer based on safety conditions.

Reading can be your friend.

RW talking points are not meant to inform.

[confludemocrat]

37. Kerry: stay until "success" Bush: "Total Victory" No diff. Murtha: go ASAP

And yeah, try as Kerryites usually do, to spin other, forthright, courageous democrats who have admitted that we MUST leave. There is no victory to be had and no success is to be had from here on out.

Bob Graham said yesterday that Dems who voted yes on IWR knew better than to vote for the IWR and knew it was a vote for war, and he warned such people that THEY WOULD HAVE BLOOD ON THEIR HANDS, as your boy Kerry does now.

[emulatorloo]

41. You are either the dumbest person ever born or a boldfaced liar

Read what Kerry says - US presence is hurting by fueling the insurgency, need to seek political solution between Sunnis and Shias rather than Bush BS of military solution, no to permanent bases, 20000 troops home during holidays, US out by 2006 etc etc. That is how he defines "success"

This is in no way what George Bush is saying. So stop being dumb or disingenuous.

[confludemocrat]

45. I know it must hurt when your guys words are read back to you

He has a recipe for "success"? Murtha has moved out of that state of delusion. But your level of rage obvious. And I'm the dumb one?

[emulatorloo]

49. I have no rage at all - but you either have an agenda to divide Dems or

an inability to discern what people are saying.

Any 12 year old child knows that the term "success" can mean different things to different people. Any DU'er who has paid any attention to DU has heard endlessly about rhetorical strategies like "framing." And yet you obsess on the term itself as if it proves some equivalency, when anybody w basic skills know it does not.

Success for Dems is getting the troops out ASAP. Success for Bush, well who the hell knows, but it is not about getting the troops out ASAP.

Again, Murtha Kerry Edwards etc are on the same page. George Bush is in another book altogether.

On EDIT clarify

[blm]

43. Kerry's the one who said we must leave w/a withdrawal plan FIRST. You are

not being honest and I wonder why when everyone now knows he put up a withdrawal plan a MONTHS AGO already.

A plan that could have all troops home by the end of 2006.

[confludemocrat]

46. So what's with the "plan for success"? JFK talkin out of both sides again

Typical.

[blm]

51. What in his plan is unclear to you? It's quite detailed and easy to read.

,

[stevedeshazer]

9. I agree with your take

Cheney is being forced by the sheer will of public opinion to debate the question. He made a slightly less inflammatory statement today regarding Jack Murtha because he was so obviously and painfully losing the argument.

But the Vice-President of Torture is still denying there's a problem, so John Kerry is happy to oblige keeping the issue in the public forum.

Good move by Sen. Kerry, the guy who should be President and has all the credibility on this issue that Five-Deferment Dick will never have.

[emulatorloo]

11. kick n/t

[wisteria]

13. Kerry is absolutely right about Cheney-the man just isn't believable

anymore. I wish he would finally be called out on all of his "questionable" activities.

[arewenotdemo]

14. "And Iraqis should be fighting for Iraq"...

Looks like Kerry and Sir Hillary are on the same page here.

They both realize that the one thing they can count on is the stupidity and arrogance of the American people.

WHATEVER their goals are (beside, of course, winning the presidency) they are both enabling the American public to deny its complicity for this murderous war. If only those lazy Iraqis would just get off their asses and FIGHT for their country!

[MH1]

17. What - Hillary proposed a plan to get out of Iraq, and I missed it? Link?

You clearly missed the point of what Kerry said altogether. In no way is he blaming Iraqis or saying they are "lazy." (But keep in mind there was once this thing called "the Iraqi National Congress" who lobbied for the US to invade Iraq - that's my input though, not Kerry's)

Kerry knows from his Vietnam experience that however we got here, the situation now demands that the policing activities be done by the Iraqis. To continue having an occupation force doing it, is just asking for continually worsening disaster for both US troops, and Iraqis.

You can scream about US guilt in creating the situation in Iraq all you want, but that won't improve the situation.

[arewenotdemo]

20. And exactly how effective was the South Vietnamese military

once the U.S. pulled out?

The genie is out of the bottle and America has absolutely no moral or legal legitimacy with respect to ANYTHING when it comes to the past, present or future of Iraq. America can only, at this point, continue to do what it has already done, which is to murder and plunder.

The only way to prevent future illegal and immoral wars is for Americans to understand their own complicity and to see the catastrophic results of this war. They were never forced to acknowledge the immorality of the Vietnam War. Instead, the "lesson" the idiots learned was that you hold nothing back in time of war...apparently three million Vietnamese dead weren't enough.

Kerry and Clinton continue to be, in their own way, apologists for this murderous rampage.

[Beam Me Up]

28. Yeah. I saw that too. I think they ARE fighting for their country!

[blm]

33. You haven't read his withdrawal plan have you? Kerry believes that US must

stop sending soldiers into Iraqi households based on the cultural affronts to the overall Iraqi population.

And when Kerry spoke to the leaders of other countries last January, he was assured that they offered training to the iraqi soldiers but BUSH TURNED THEM DOWN.

That's why Kerry believes many more Iraqi troops can be trained quickly just by allowing other countries to help.

[dusmcj]

15. Cheney BS: does the intel commission have tasks left to complete ?

Please, I'm trying to get a fact answer to the following and don't have enough posts here to start a thread on it myself. I recall reading somewhere (New Yorker I think, but can't find it) that the intel commission had completed the task of evaluating the intel community's handling of Iraq intelligence, but had not yet completed a second task in its charter, to evaluate the administration's use of the product of the intel community. If anyone knows this to be correct, or something similar to be correct (what I recall is that they had not evaluated the administration's behavior because of political pressure), please post the details. Conversely, if you know it to be incorrect, you'll save me some time. I need dry detail on what if anything wasn't yet done.

TIA !

[gratuitous]

21. That's what the "political stunt" was a couple of weeks ago

Whe the commission investigating Iraq issued its initial report, it specifically did NOT evaluate or address the issue of whether the information from the intelligence community was fairly used or evaluated. That was supposed to come in what became known as Phase II.

The GOP delayed and delayed giving the commission its mandate to begin that investigation, and granted it extension after extension for beginning that work. That's when Reid called for the Senate to go into closed session a couple of weeks ago, embarrassing the Republican leadership and forcing a jump start of the Phase II investigation.

[dusmcj]

27. thank you !!!

bingo, thank you, you rock.

See, I thought that the crock of sh!t about "people are _now_ (bwahahaha, I should send these dipsh!ts the URL for the New Yorker, call it two years) starting to claim that the administration laundered the intelligence, the commission proved that nothing was wrong" might be a slick maneuver to avoid addressing what I thought I recalled about part of the work left to be done. I didn't latch that in fact the issue at hand was the start of the second phase. But in the new "we'll use their words agin em" Doober/Dick mode, here's what's happening, thanks for your clearing it up:

Democrats: "the intel commission needs to complete the second phase of its work to see if the administration did anything wrong".

Doober/Dick/GOP reply: "the intel commission has completed its work and has concluded that the administration hasn't done anything wrong".

A: "This turkey has not gotten stuffed yet." B: "The turkey got stuffed and the stuffing is tasty. The sky also has pink polka dots if you rub your eyes real hard. That's Reality (tm) and it's in accordance with Natural Law (R)."

Excellent, the mark of the L(oser) is upon them. It's fun to argue objective fact with idiots, we have a window of opportunity here.

[blm]

35. Plus, Pat Roberts planted antiWilson talking points into the first report.

He did it in an addemdum to the report that only he and only two other senators signed. Not even the rest og the GOP committee memebrs signed it.

The RW uses those talking points against Wilson to say he lied. But, my guess is that Roberts will be the one who ends up in deeper trouble because he used an official document to plant Rove's talking points for him.

[blm]

34. When the Downing Street Memos appeared, the house and senate both

sent round letters demanding investigation last summer.

The senate version by Kerry demanded DSM be included in the second phase of the Intel committee's investigation of how intel was used by the WH.

Pat Roberts declined the further investigation implying it was no longer necessary.

Only ten senators signed that letter back then, but, now they are all pretty much on board demanding that the senate Com. finish its work.

Roberts is a WH coverup artist who will be in deep doodoo by the end of all this.

[texpatriot2004]

16. Absolutely True. Thank you Sen. Kerry nm

[Octafish]

18. Cheney's in deep doo-doo.

Sneer's words demonstrate he's worried about his future. The jig is up. The guy's been called a traitor by Paul Craig Roberrts.

Lies and Official Secrets

We Must Hold the Scoundrels Accountable

http://www.counterpunch.org/roberts11212005.html

[ohtransplant]

19. Thank you Senator Kerry - for fighting the good fight.

And for challenging *'s spin machine lead by Darth Cheney.



Repeat after me...

“No one has less credibility on Iraq than Dick Cheney."


Keep up the good work Senator!

[jean]

22. Except, possibly, Rumsfeld.

[upi402]

24. "What, me lie?" -Dick

Oh yeah, I said it -dick
attack of the dick
attack dick

[_dynamicdems]

25. The prosecutor is preparing his case.

He's thrown down a gauntlet and it isn't simply that he wants to debate Cheney. Whew! The anger behind those words. Senator Kerry isn't going to call either Bsh or Cheney a liar, but he's going to do everything in his power to prove they both are exactly that. In effect: the investigation will continue and we will get to the bottom of it. Powerful stuff here.

"It’s also wrong to continue to pretend that the Intelligence Committee has determined the intelligence on Iraq was not misused by the Administration. That is why Democrats have been pushing the Senate Intelligence Committee to complete a thorough and balanced investigation into the issue, and it’s why Democrats were forced to shut down the Senate and go into closed session to make the Republicans take this issue seriously"

[ProSense]

42. Yup!

Dick, prepare to raise your right hand.

[_dynamicdems]

44. I SO want the ASS KICKING to begin. And I'll tell you one thing....

as much as I admire Senator Kerry, no way in Hell would I want to be in his line of fire when he's pissed. And it certainly sounds like he's pissed. Look out you snarly old bastard, Cheney! Johnny's coming for you and he's got his holster tied down. High Noon for Dicky. Hehe.

[Broken_Hero]

26. Good response...

I hope other dems, or whomever start echoing some of these thoughts...the debate must happen, and I think every passing day more and more people are realizing that the war was a HUGE mistake...

[Inland]

31. Even "Curveball" gave more accurate info about Iraq.nt

[maximovich]

47. Thank You, Kerry!

Keep it up!