Who has a problem with Christmas?

[Mutley]

Every year I hear the RWers talk about how the liberals want to get rid of Christmas, but in reality I don't know anyone who wants that. The most I've ever heard is people who say "Happy Holidays" instead of "Merry Christmas" because they don't want to offend anyone. So, what does DU think?

[phaseolus]

1. My only problem with the season...

...are the interminable 'festivus' jokes.

[Mutley]

5. That was cute at first, but it got old quick.

[shraby]

2. I think most people say "Happy Holidays" because

they want to convey greetings for Christmas AND New Years at the same time.

[Mutley]

4. That too.

[wryter2000]

17. I say Happy Holidays

I say Happy Holidays because not everyone's Christian. I've never bought cards with Christian symbols for the same reason. Santa, reindeer, and elves are Christmas, but they're pretty much recognized by all Americans as secular.

My early years were spent in Queens, and there was a sizable Jewish population. My friends at the Episcopalian private school I went to were mostly Jewish. They have to put up with enough Christianity imposed on them. I'm not going to add to it with Merry Christmas when Happy Holidays works just as well.

[Mutley]

20. I live in a neighborhood with a lot of Jewish people...

and I'll tell them Happy Holidays. They almost seem grateful sometimes. I would be, too, if I were them.

[MADem]

42. Greetings of the Season works well, too! n/t

[SW FL Dem]

32. I have many Jewish friends and family members

So I usually buy cards that say Happy Holidays rather than Merry Christmas. For friend I know are Christians, I say Merry Christmas.

edited to correct stupid typos

[fortyfeetunder]

55. With Jewish, Moslem, and atheist/agnostic friends

I look for cards that say Peace and let it go at that. My holiday letters are decorated with snowflakes.

[Carni]

106. Same here...I have no idea who's Jewish/Christian or whatever

Happy holidays covers all bases...

In my mind when you say *whatever* to *whoever* you are supposdely issuing a greeting of good will to the person you're talking to (which is why I say "Happy holidays")

Leave it to the right wingers to want to offend by saying ONLY *merry Christmas*

[babylonsister]

3. I don't care what anyone wants to call it, it's too

commercial; the reason for the season has been lost as has any enthusiasm I might once have had.

[Mutley]

6. But would you go around trying to

get rid of it as the RWers say we do?

[babylonsister]

10. Not at all; to each their own. I'm apathetic. nt

[noahmijo]

22. Oh no I don't care Christmas as celebrated by people like you or me

or by the Wal-Mart Christians really isn't something I ever think about.

I'm fact I'm more likely to worry about who is screwing on on some dumb soap opera than I am about Christmas being celebrated by Americans.

Amazes me how people are dying via poverty and war around the world and around the country yet these flat earthers think we liberals are concerned with banning Christmas....that kind of shit makes me want to join the church of Satan.

[Mutley]

27. Yeah, I always wondered where the RWers got that we

hate Christmas and want to get rid of it. :shrug:

[MellowOne]

25. My thoughts exactly

Was going to post the same thing. Also too much stress.

[Finder]

81. What is the "reason for the season" in your opinion?

The season was celebrated long before the term "Christmas" came to be.

[noahmijo]

7. I have a problem with what Christmas has become

Bright lights, carolers, decorated pine trees, scenes of winter bliss I love all of it even though the fundies hate it because it has nothing to do with the birth of Christ.

What I don't like is the consumerism that engulfs the holiday of Christmas and amazingly the fundie xtians have no problem with Wal-Mart shopping sprees becoming tradition yet they are deeply offended by phrases like "Happy Holidays"

[Mutley]

9. I'd never heard that the fundies don't like the lights, carolers, etc.

But I guess that makes sense for the most hardcore of them.

[noahmijo]

13. Do you live in a state owned by the fundies

I live in Arizona (not for much longer hopefully) The Religious freaks see such decorations as sinful and insulting to their precious Christ.

[Mutley]

16. No, I live in Maryland.

Technically a blue state, but I'd really call it purple if you take into account the rural areas and western Maryland. There are a fair amount of religious people here, but I wouldn't say the own the state.

[readmylips]

64. AZ Mormons celebrate Cmas bigtime...huge temple and decorations...

I'm in AZ and people go all the out to decorate their house, churches, the streets, businesses, even their trucks.

[Abelman]

8. I agree with the previous poster

I say Happy Holidays to convey happiness for the Holiday Trifecta that is Thanksgiving - Christmas - New Year's Eve and Day.

I say Merry Christmas quite often as well.

[Mutley]

12. I do too.

I also say 'Happy Holidays' to people I don't know since I don't know whether they celebrate Christmas, Hanakauh, something else, or nothing at all. And I'll say 'Merry Christmas' to those I know celebrate Christmas.

[chat_noir]

60. and Kwanzaa

[kentuck]

11. I've noticed people are exactly opposite the way they should be...

at Christmas. They are depressed rather than joyful. They are angry rather than happy. They are mean rather than compassionate. They are high-tempered rather than calm. And most of it seems to be connected to their economic situations. They can't afford to buy the toys the children are begging for that they saw advertised on TV and that all their friends have. They simple are caught up in the economic squeeze of Christmas and cannot afford it so they take it out on their family and friends and sometimes, themselves. Most suicides occur during the holiday season, I have heard?

[Mutley]

14. I've heard that, too.

And that is true. The mall is scary this time of year. :scared:

[GrumpyGreg]

21. Good points. My absolute favorite day of the year is December 26.

[longship]

15. I hate Christmas season.

The outright commercial exploitation. Week after week of horrible country and western and pop versions of christmas songs. Idiot "buy, buy, buy" commercials on all media.

I do not give or accept presents during December. (Well, two exceptions: my wife's birthday and our anniversary which are the same day, 28 Dec.)

I tell people the only thing I want during the holidays is to get together with friends and family. I want presence, not presents.

[Mutley]

18. So, of course you wouldn't try to get rid of Christmas, right?

[longship]

76. No, I would *not* want to get rid of it.

But I do not have to like what it has become.

[Mutley]

90. I know you don't have to like it.

I'm just trying to see if there is any truth to this idea of the RWers that liberals want to do away with Christmas, or if that's just a load of bullshit like everything else they say.

[longship]

102. I want to stamp out the exploitation of Christmas

No matter whether it is exploted commercially or politically.
Both suck equally.

And as an atheist, I would much prefer to celebrate the season in my own way, without having it shoved down my throat.

BTW, thanks for the tread. ;-)

[libnnc]

35. I agree

I hate this season. Both for political and personal reasons (my dad died around Christmas when I was a kid).

I just want to be left alone and not be made to feel guilty 'cause I'm not wearing Santa panties and sceaming "Silent Night" at the top of my lungs. I hate the consumerism and the craziness. It's foolish.

[Justice Is Comin]

69. Boy am I with you !!!

They start hawking Christmas before Halloween now for Christ sake. They have CHRISTMAS TREES up already on the shopping channels.

It makes me almost biserk. What other damn holiday is two and a half months long ? What if the 4th of July started in May ? What if Thanksgiving decorations were put up in September ?

It is so sickening--Christmas music in the stores before Thanksgiving...every other word out of these shopping hosts is "great gift, awesome gift, perfect gift." By the time Christmas comes, it's so worn out absolutely nothing is special about it anymore.

If I was president, my first act in office would be to make it a felony to mention the word Christmas before December 10th. And it would be punishable by 30 days. In the electric chair!!!

[Carni]

108. I'm an agnostic and I love Christmas

I know... I know... what the hell is wrong with me, right?

I love the sappy songs (granted not the country versions)

I love it's a wonderful life and miracle on whatever it is street--
I suck up all this sappy commercialized stuff and enjoy every minute of it.

I have no idea why -- maybe there is a DU psychiatrist here that can analyze me.

Maybe I like the lights-who the hell knows?

[AlCzervik]

19. aside from how it's completely commercialized---no.

[Tsiyu]

23. This is their new distraction

They tried it last year. Some Sheeple are stupid enough to buy this idea that the librul agenda is to wipe out Baby Jeebus's false bithday.

When I complained to a shopkeeper about some rightwing drivel the store was loudly spewing from a station in Nashville- "They are trying to destroy Christmas! I am going to demand that the stores where I shop say 'Christmas Sale' instead of 'Holiday Sale.' My life is close to destroyed because of this!!!!!"

The shopkeeper tells me that this is a "big deal." Many people are upset!


Oh, for Christ's sake. I wish I could send all those whiners to Iraq for the holidays, personally.

And BTW, I say Happy Holidays on my card because here's a clue: Not every American is Christian!

[Mutley]

28. Well, they seem to think 95% of Americans are Christian

and the rest should be Christian.

[leanin_green]

24. It's not Christmas, per say that get's me.

It's all that goes around it. The concept is nice enough, be it its religious connotation or the more pagan concept that was trying to be usurped by the church. It's what capitalism has done with every holiday in this country. Just another excuse to be good consumers. And the applied guilt that is attached if you don't behave like good consumers really pisses me off. When your poor or struggling as a family, the pressures this time of year can be immense. Could be the reason for the spike in domestic violence this time of year.

[Mutley]

29. My family has always understood when I am short on cash

at this time of year. I usually end up getting cards and a gift card with 10 or 20 on it for everyone.

[iconoclastNYC]

26. Christmas Music is unbearable - Xmas exploitation

And it's started even earlier this year.

I have to suffer thru the aural assault the rest of my life?

Two weeks of Christmas carols is fun but the since the Commerical marketing of Christmas is happening earlier and earlier we'all all burning out on the music.

I propose we shorten Christmas season by limiting Christmas-themed branded advertising until two weeks before Christmas.

This would be more tasteful and remedy an annoying sitaution developing in American domestic capitalism.

Christmas as an instituion is underattack. By "artificial persons" such as Macy's, Wal Mart, Madison Avenue, collectivey "Big Business" who engage in a conspiracy to milk Christmas as an exploitable assset in order to persue thier mutually independant goals in in so doing so exploit and debasing the Christmas holiday in order to satisfy the sociopathetic greed. Greer that has increased over the years and is slowly devouring thier remaining stiches of morality.

This is the situation that exists in present time in our country. Year after year Christmas becomes less Solemn, more gaudy, more costly. And a select group of elites slowly give way to the institution of infections greed and a middle class that is put futhrer into debt.

We can fix this with a law which limits advertising Christmas until two weeks before Christmas.

[Mutley]

30. I would be thrilled if it were limited to two weeks before.

But I guess with Black Friday being such a big deal that will never happen.

[iconoclastNYC]

38. I could see it happening in Blue states

And guess what? Life would be better for us all and we wouldn't be sick of Christmas by Dec 5th every year.

[Mutley]

41. Exactly.

Though, this year is a bit different for me. This is the first year I won't be working at Toys R Us for Christmas. I think that means I will be able to enjoy much more than usual.

[mongo]

39. You want the government to decide how we celebrate

religious holidays?

Wow. Be careful what you ask for.

[Cats Against Frist]

31. Funny, I was just telling my son about Christmas, this morning

I thought it was going to be really hard, being an athiest, who celebrates the whole holiday, Jesus and Santa, included. It turned out to be not so bad. I just explained that some people think that Jesus was "magic," and rose from the dead, and that some just think he was a great philosopher, and some think he's a symbol, and some don't care, at all. It's really funny, though, because, after being so ambivalent about Jesus, I totally lied to him and told him there really was a Santa Claus.

:wtf:

(he's four, btw)

[Mutley]

34. Eh, I don't think it's a problem to tell kids about Santa.

They usually decide he's not real by the time they are 8ish anyway.

[HockeyMom]

71. Nicholas the Catholic Saint

Santa Claus is a corruption of the Dutch for Saint Nicholas. His feast day is December 6th and if I remember correctly, this is the day celebrated with the giving of gifts in Holland and also Germany. I am trying to jar my memory from Catholic School. Been a LONG time.

So contrary to what the likes of Falwell, Robertson, etc., are trying to say, Santa Claus is not a "recent" SECULAR invention. Although, since Christmas does fall around the time of the Winter Solstice and a couple of older Pagan Celebrations (can't remember the names offhand), one can argue that religions have borrowed from one another. I was told in CATHOLIC School that the early church did incorporate many of the pagan traditions into their own to ease the transition for the new converts. But so what????? Obviously, many of the Fundies don't like this.

Presumably, Falwell, et al, have taken Theology Classes. This would have been covered in the realm of the History of Religion.

[wakeme2008]

37. What there is no Santa Claus....

and next you will tell me there is no real Harry Potter....... :evilgrin:

[Carni]

109. OMG Cat! I did the exact same thing

The jig was up on Santa with my 8 year old last year and the guilt over Santa was a bummer.

I decorate and bake and do the whole thing at Christmas and then I think why am I doing this? I'm not even religious!

Christmas whether I believe in it's origins (or not) has always appealed to me in theory.

I partake, I enjoy the ceremony of the whole thing but I don't really buy into the reason for the season.

I am either a hypocrite or a real sucker for marketing--who knows but I wish Santa was real!

[Mutley]

118. Nah, I think a lot of people are like that.

I've never been religious, but I've always celebrated Christmas. The holiday has become much more than the birth of Jesus (which this was never his birthday to begin with), but about spending time with family, giving gifts, eating good food, etc. I don't think it belongs to just the fundies anymore.

[sakabatou]

33. I am somewhat religious and don't have a problem with Christmas

It's the American Taliban which I have a problem with.

[Mutley]

36. Lol, the American Taliban.

That makes me chuckle every time I hear it.

[ticapnews]

40. My problem with Christmas is it is entirely commercialized now

in the immortal words of Stan Freberg:

SCROOGE: (SINGING) Bah, humbug, everybody.
CHORUS: Good morning, Mr. Scrooge!
SCROOGE: Well, the meeting will come to order, if you please. Are all the advertising people represented here?
CHORUS: Everyone except Amalgamated Cheese!
MUSIC: OUT

SCROOGE: Well, if they're not here for the Christmas pitch, I can't help them find new ways of tying their product in to Christmas. That's why I'm chairman of this board! Let's hear it for me!
CHORUS: Hear, hear!
SCROOGE: All right, Abercrombie, what are your people up to?
ABERCROMBIE: Ahhh, same thing as every year. Fifty thousand billboards showing Santa Claus pausing to refresh himself with our product.
SCROOGE: Mmmmm, hmmm, well, I think the public has come to expect that and . . .
ABERCROMBIE: That's right. It's become tradition!
SCROOGE: You there, Crass, uhh, I suppose your company's running the usual magazine ads showing cartons of your cigarettes peeking out of the top of Santa's sack?
CRASS: Better than that! This year we have him smoking one.
SCROOGE: Um-hmmm...
CRASS: Yes. We've got Santa a little more rugged, too. Both sleeves rolled up and a tattoo on each arm. One of 'em says "Merry Christmas."
SCROOGE: What does the other one say?
CRASS: "Less tar!"
SCROOGE: Great stuff!
CRATCHET: But Mr.Scrooge...
SCROOGE: What? Who are you?
CRATCHET: Bob Cratchet, sir. I've got a little spice company over in East Orange, New Jersey. Do I have to tie my product in to Christmas?
SCROOGE: What do you mean?
CRATCHET: Well, I was just going to send cards out showing the three wise men following the Star of Bethlehem...
SCROOGE: I get it! And they're bearing your spices. Now that's perfect.
CRATCHET: No, no... no product in it. I was just going to say, "Peace on Earth... Good Will Toward Men."
VOICES: MUMBLING IN BACKGROUND
MAN: Well, that's a peculiar slogan!
SCROOGE: Old hat, Cratchet! That went out with button shoes! You're a businessman . . . Christmas is something to take advantage of!
MUSIC: PUNCTUATES
SCROOGE: A red and green bandwagon to jump on!
MUSIC: PUNCTUATES
SCROOGE: A sentimental shot in the arm for sales! Listen!

MUSIC: CYMBAL CRASH
CHORUS: Deck the halls with advertising,
Fa la la la la la la la la.
While you can be enterprising,
Fa la la la la la la la la.
On the fourth day of Christmas,
My true love gave to me
Four bars of soap,
Three cans of peas,
Two breakfast foods,
And some toothpaste on a pear tree!
On the fifth day of Christmas,
My true love gave to me. . .
SCROOGE: Five tube-less tires!
CHORUS: Fo-ur quarts of gin,
Three ci-gars,
Two cig-ar-ettes,
And some hair tonic on a pear tree!
(TEMPO CHANGES ROMANTICALLY)
Chest-nuts roasting. . .
ANNOUNCER: Sayyyy, Mother, as sure as there's an X in Christmas, you can be sure those are Tiny Tim Chestnuts roasting. Tin-y Tim Chestnuts are frill-bodied . . . longer lasting! This visible shell . . .
SOUND: KNOCK-KNOCK
ANNOUNCER: ...protects the nut! Now with X-K 29 added, for people who can't roast after every meal.
GIRL TRIO: Tin-ee Tim! Tin-ee Tim! Chest-nuts all the way!
ANNOUNCER: Tin-y Tim's roast hot... like a chestnut ought! And.. . they are
(ECHO) mild, mild, mild, mild.
ORCHESTRA: PUNCTUATES

CHORUS: Deck the halls with advertising,
Fa la la la la la la la la.
'Tis the time for merchandising,
Fa la la la la la la la la.
Profit never needs a reason,
Fa la la la la la la la la.
Get the money, it's the season,
Fa la la la la la la la la.

SCROOGE: Words to live by, Cratchet!
CRATCHET: For you, maybe. Can't you just wish someone merry Christmas, for the pure joy of doing it?
SCROOGE: Why? What's the percentage in that? Let me show you how to make Christmas work for you!

CHORUS: We wish you a merry Christmas,
We wish you a merry Christmas,
We wish you a merry Christmas,
And please buy our beer!

SCROOGE: There you go, Cratchet! That's Christmas with a purpose.
CRATCHET: I know, but wait a minute. Don't you guys make enough profit the other eleven months? Christmas comes but once a year.
SCROOGE: Humph! Funny thing you should bring that up. That's exactly the point I was about to make. Hit it, boys!

SCROOGE: Christmas comes but once a year,
So you better make hay while the snow is falling,
That's opportunity calling you!
CHORUS: Rub your hands, December's here,
What a wonderful time to be Glad and merry!
SCROOGE: Just so you're mercenary too!
CHORUS: Buy an ad and show all the toys,
Show all the toys up on the shelf
SCROOGE: Just make sure that you get a plug,
You get a plug, In for yourself!
SCROOGE AND CHORUS:
Christmas comes but once a year,
So you better cash in,
While the spirit lingers,
It's slipping through your fingers,
Boy! Don't you realize
Christmas can be such a
Monetary joy!

CRATCHET: Well, I guess you fellows will never change.
SCROOGE: Why should we? Christmas has two s's in it, and they're both dollar signs.
CRATCHET: Yeah, but they weren't there to begin with.
SCROOGE: Eh?
CRATCHET: The people keep hoping you'll remember. But you never do.
SCROOGE: Remember what?

CRATCHET: Whose birthday we're celebrating.
SCROOGE: Well, ....... don't get me wrong. The story of Christmas, in its simplicity, is a good thing - I'll buy that. It's just that we know a good thing when we see it.
CRATCHET: But don't you realize Christmas has a significance, a meaning.
SCROOGE: A sales curve! Wake up, Cratchet, it's later than you think.
CRATCHET: I know, Mr. Scrooge, I know.
CHORUS: On the first day of Christmas,
The advertising's there, with
Newspaper ads,
Billboards too,
Business Christmas cards,
And commercials on a pear tree. . .
Jingles here, jingles there,
Jingles all the way.
Dashing through the snow,
In a fifty-foot coup-e
O'er the fields we go,
Selling all the way. . .
Deck the halls with advertising,
What's the use of compromising,
Fa la la la la la la la la.

MUSIC: AS TRADITIONAL HYMNS ATTEMPT TO BREAK THROUGH THE MUSICAL ENDING, IT BUILDS TO A CRESCENDO. WE HEAR "JINGLE BELLS" PUNCTUATED WITH THE SOUND OF A CASH REGISTER RINGING UP SALES. ON THE LAST NOTE OF THE MUSIC, WE HEAR MONEY DROPPING IN AND THE CASH REGISTER SLAMMING SHUT!

[Mutley]

44. That seems to be the actual problem that most people have.

I don't believe anyone on this thread has said anything about getting rid of Christmas. They would just like it to be less commercialized, and to start a little later than usual. Is that what the fundies have a problem with?

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

43. We always just ignore it. The capitalists are fond of it though. $$$$$

However, though an agnostic, I'm a big fan of the revolutionary named Jesus who excoriated the wealthy and would certainly be appalled at the "celebration" of materialism perpetrated in his name.

[Mutley]

47. It is odd how, in my experience...

liberals seem to live by the teachings of Jesus more than the fundies do -- even the atheist and agnostic ones.

[Greyhound]

45. I absolutely hate this whole time of year. I can't afford anything

anymore, nothing gets done for the rest of the year, people are stressed out and pissed off every day, prices go through the roof, traffic sux even harder.
Bah, humbug! :puke:

[Mutley]

50. Lol. Bah humbug.

:D

But, would you want to do away with Christmas as the RW says we do?

[Greyhound]

56. Ideally it would return to the quaint religious rite it used to be and I

could ignore it or not as I wished.

[readmylips]

68. All the stuff is made in China.....don't get stressed out...

If you don't have any money to spend on China junk, less money for China.

[Greyhound]

70. I don't get stressed, it's just all the other people dumping on me

because they get stressed.

[Horse with no Name]

46. I absolutely adore Christmas

It is what you make it I suppose. You don't have to let others define your beliefs or how you choose to celebrate.
It is a time of year that I get to spend with my entire family.
It's only as commercial as YOU choose to make it.
This year I have scoured Ebay, thrift shops and other non-traditional venues for my gifts. I have had a wonderful time doing it.
I decided I wasn't spending ANY extra money, so I have sold things I didn't need or want on Ebay and that dictated how much money I was able to spend.
I have got some really nifty gifts and had a chance to get creative as well.
I love to decorate, I love to go light-seeing, I love the carolers, I love the food, I love the celebration.
I don't worry about the Happy Holidays or the Merry Christmas.
I wish everyone a nice day and that about takes care of it.

[Mutley]

51. I enjoy a lot of things about Christmas.

I like to decorate, I like to get gifts for my friends and family (watching my young nieces and nephew open their gifts is a real special treat for me), I like to spend time with my family, I even like Christmas songs -- to a point -- but having worked at Toys R Us for five years I think I'm desensitized to them. :D

[Mizmoon]

72. I love decorating, cooking, the smells, the songs

It also makes the long, cold winter bearable!

[ultraist]

107. I love the holiday season. For us the message is: Peace on Earth

[ENomine]

48. Hell yes.

I have a problem because it startes before Halloween. Godamnit people! I know it's a majority thing, but must you RUB IT IN FOR THREE MONTHS?!?! *sigh* *grumblegrumblegrumble*

[Mutley]

52. I do think it's silly to start talking about it that early.

I think waiting at least until after Thanksgiving would make the most sense. One of my local radio stations started playing 24/7 Christmas songs this past Monday. They will keep going with it until New Years Eve. :silly:

[kentuck]

49. Most people break out their credit cards and spend money....

they cannot afford and spend the rest of the year trying to catch up. However, most of the stores and the capitalists are happy because if there were no Christmas season, their business could not survive. So, thank you very much!

[Mutley]

61. When I worked at Toys R Us...

a manager told me that if not for Christmas, TRU would have gone out of business decades ago. :wow:

[Cha]

53. It's not even

Christ's real birthday..It started out as a pagan holiday to celebrate Winter soltice "Saturnalia"(which is appropriate because Capricorn is ruled by Saturn)..wasn't Jesus born sometime in March?

http://users.aristotle.net/~bhuie/birthday.htm

[Mutley]

62. I have no idea when Jesus was really born...

but I did know that the Christians just hijacked at pagan holiday and called it Jesus' birthday. I wonder how many fundies know that.

[WritingIsMyReligion]

164. No one's sure when Chrsit was actually born, but it sure as hell

wasn't December 25th.... Not even December.

FREE SATURNALIA!

:P :P

[readmylips]

54. I have a problem with Cmas because it has become...

a pagan holiday when it was suppose to be a religious holiday honoring the birth of Jesus. We stopped buying gifts for family and friends. Their kids have a warehouse of toys and junk they'll never use in a their life-time. We send our family flowers for Easter instead and they enjoy the unexpected gift much better.

We celebrate New Years, dressing up, dancing, drinking and having fun.

[Mutley]

63. It was originally a pagan holiday.

[mitchum]

78. It STARTED out as a pagan holiday hijacked by the murderous christians...

of the Holy Roman Empire

[koopie57]

57. The other day I saw a commercial

where the film was rolling double time and people were eating, more food, seconds, running to get more from the kichen, eat eat eat and it just blew me away and made me sick. I can't get the spirit back cuz I think of those who lost everything and are freezing and dieing of hunger and then we (we used generally k?) can hardly shove enough in us, so much so we need to take medicine to feel better afterwards.

But on the other hand, we have so much that it seems just as wrong not to appreciate it and to celebrate with my little family. When I grew up my brothers always celebrated with their wives and girlfriends family and then came home and told me all about how much fun I had while I was home alone with my alcoholic mom, and when I got married my in-laws would make holidays miserable for me (one present I got was a brown bathrug cuz they thought it matched my personality) and now we have not celebrated with anyone but friends on occasion for so long we don't have the stress of not going to family. We are content to be just our little family and everyone is content to it just be us. I feel guilty cuz I don't cook well and I feel I owe them better holidays, but maybe instead of feeling bad I think now that I have discussed this I think I will appreciate what we have, give to others within our means to those who have not and even though I can't save the world I can do what I can but that doesn't mean we can't appreciate and enjoy what we have.

I'm going to post this is case someone else is struggling and cuz I might need to reread this often.

And remember when people didn't complain about a christmas scene or a happy holiday sign or a jewish symbol? That was real respect and tolerance. You said merry christmas to a jewish person and they replied happy hannakah and it was cool. Now people are so touchy when it comes to religion and the holidays that if you wish the wrong greating you can find youself in jail. And I guess even if you believed in god or didn't. People would respect your belief and if you didn't believe it was okay. Or at least, people kept their comments to themselves cuz we were better than that.

Well, I don't know. Curious what other people think, good or bad, helpful or ugly.

And by the way, Happy Turkey Day. I wonder who would get pissed off by that? I'm sure somebody, or this ain't america *LOL* I'm joking k?

[Mutley]

65. I can't see anyone getting mad about saying

Happy Turkey Day.

[TK421]

58. Not religious, and I don't have a problem with it

[Norrin Radd]

59. No problem. I enjoy any holiday or festival--any excuse for a party

or celebration!

The Religious wRong are hypocrites; they attack Halloween every year.

[Mutley]

66. Right!

They act like we want to get rid of Christmas, but they want to get rid of Halloween. Their hypocrisy is stunning.

[chat_noir]

67. it's a lot of work!

As a woman, as the years went by and I became a wife, then a mother, then an aunt (multiple times over), Christmas came to mean a lot of extra work.

Shopping for gifts
Extra cleaning, shopping/preparing food for guests
Decorating the tree and house
Wrapping the myriad gifts
Preparing the holiday meal
Taking down and packing away the damn decorations

I seriously doubt that men (husbands/fathers) work as hard as women do to make Christmas special.

Your experiences?

[SW FL Dem]

73. Absolutely, But my hubby does have sort of an excuse

He's Jewish and when we first married, we agreed that I could put up a tree and decorate (which drove his mother absolutely NUTS) as long as I did all the work. Twenty years later, I can get some help getting the decorations out of the attic and putting them back but that's about it. At least my kid helps out. He loves to cook and for many years now, he has been official potato masher. One of my favorite traditions is to take a pic of him with the mixer "smashing the potatoes". I have pics from about age 6 when he had to sit on a stool to now, age 14 where he is taller than me.

[Aimah]

74. I don't have a problem with Christmas but...

I get tired of co-workers who know that I'm not Christian trying to shame me into doing Secret Santa stuff. Most are respectful and ask questions but it's always that one annoying person in the office that wants full participation and thinks that everything not familiar to them is stupid. I just say Happy Holidays to people in general and Merry Christmas to those who I know celebrate it. I also switch days with co-workers who have to travel to see family for the holidays.

[julialnyc]

75. I love Christmas and I'm not religious at all

I love it that I get to see my family...... It's great to have a guilt free time to eat too much and drink too much (as long as I work it off after the holidays!).

I love trying to think of the perfect thing to get my husband (no matter how little I have, I can always think of something I can give that surprises him with thoughtfulness).

I don't care if it is commercial, It is only once a year and holds so many great memories

[mitchum]

77. I refuse to get stressed about it. I tell people that I don't want...

anything and they should expect the same from me.
I hate the music. And that red and green color scheme is just hideous.

[spanone]

79. Any season that runs on the premise of Peace is OK with me.

[Binka]

80. Now That I Am Living In Italy I Love Xmas!

My RW ULTRA WEALTHY and fucked up family (did I mention Dysfunctional is our last name...I digress) are far far far away. I don't have to have dinner at my sisters house where I was always so embarrassed that she hired help to cook, serve, and clean up.

I used to pinch really good wine from her cellar and give it to the help. I miss that and pissing in the sink in her bathroom oh and giving my Bro-in-Law a hot and heavy mistletoe kiss. He would send me flowers until April. LOL.

Now my partner and I have loads of friends over and we give tons of gifts and get drunk! Merry Xmas!

[Mutley]

91. LOL!

You family's Christmas's sound like they were better than mine! :rofl:

[Binka]

93. Oh Fuck They Were AWFUL But The Subterfuge Was Great

One year my ex and I put flaming dog shit on my sisters porch during dinner. For that I still love the jerk bastard!

[Mutley]

94. Heehee!

Sounds hilarious! :rofl:

[Carni]

110. Um--exactly where are you in Italy and do you accept freeloaders?

I am assuming you'll have rocking good food on x-mas eve?

Do you also pay airfare? (kidding-sort of)

[OneBlueSky]

82. Christmas has lost all of its meaning . . .

these days, Christmas is nothing but the gold ring for retailers . . . whether it's been a good Christmas or a bad Christmas is measured by sales volume . . . I loved Christmas when I was a kid, but now I absolutely dread it . . . the sales, the promotions, the "must have" pitches all make me ill . . .

[bluestateguy]

83. I only say Merry Christmas if I know the person is Christian

If he is not, or I am not sure, I say Happy Holidays.

I like this time of year a lot, but I don't try to rub it in others faces.

[goodhue]

84. I'm not Christian and I don't have a problem with Christmas

However, I do have a problem with people often assuming I celebrate Christmas and acting surprised that I don't much care about Christmas.

[graywarrior]

85. It's a Chinese torture for me.

[Douglas Carpenter]

86. let's not pick fights over matters that are of no genuine importance

that will only create misunderstandings and resentment.

Beating up on the Santa Clause or the Baby Jesus is not going to help us win friends and influence people.

[Mutley]

92. Um, not picking a fight.

Just asking a question, and clarifying the general feelings of DU about a topic that the RWers think they know everything about.

[Bridget Burke]

87. No I!

The Religious Right has been running a "Liberals Hate Christmas" campaign for several years now. Here's a piece from 2003: Remember those little yellow smiley buttons that seemed so cheerful at first but then drove everyone mad because of their underlying insincerity? Well, “Happy Holidays” is even worse: It might even be a form of bigotry.

Oh, I know that most folks don’t mean it that way, but hear me out.

The phrase used to be another way to say “Merry Christmas.” Now, it’s a way to avoid any recognition of Christmas.

Everyone knows that the shopping and carols and nonstop “holiday” advertising are about Christmas. Santa Claus is not here to deliver a groundhog for Groundhog Day, or even to preside over Ramadan, Hanukkah or Kwanzaa. So why does the word Christmas have to be censored?

www.cwfa.org/articles/5040/CFI/misc/

The article includes the address of Federated Stores--the campaign worked because Macy's just announced they'll be using "Christmas" more. (And "Happy Holidays" could just as well refer to Christmas & New Year's as any of the celebrations that offend CWA.

The stores started Christmas early this year because they need the money. I can't blame them--but I don't do much shopping, so I'll wait a bit.

I wish the the Blue-Nosed Puritans would go back to the REAL old days--when they celebrated Christmas with an extra-long sermon.

Meanwhile, Catholics & reasonable Protestants will celebrate Jesus & whatever traditional (Pagan) practices they like. Pagans will be in their element. Others can celebrate their preferred holiday of the season--although many Kwanzaa fans also "do" Christmas. Everyone can enjoy a few days off from work or school. Bring on the lights & the music & the food & drink.

[Mutley]

95. A form of bigotry?!?

How about it's a way of AVOIDING bigotry? How about, people who say Happy Holidays are NOT assuming that everyone on the damn planet celebrates Christmas, and they are trying to include everyone? Ugh. What an ass this Robert Knight is!

[Protagoras]

88. Fine with Dec 25...Big problem with it on Oct 15th

The fact that we've let it devour a whole quarter of the year is absurd. The fact that any sort of actual "peace on earth good will toward men" message has been displaced by CONSUME CONSUME CONSUME...that I have a massive problem with.

But I'll happily celebrate the spirit of almost any holiday (except valentines day) on it's ACTUAL day.

[0007]

89. ....ain't even Thanksgiving yet!

[Mutley]

96. No it isn't, but the wingnuts are already starting in on this

Liberals want to get rid of Christmas crap.

[Mutley]

97. Dupe

[Raine]

98. I don't have a problem, I say Happy Holidays cause

I want to include everyone and it includes New Years. I don't know why it should bother anyone, geeesh (get a fucking life fundies!). :shrug:

[Mutley]

99. Perhaps the RWers just want to project their own

desire to get rid of Halloween onto us?

[More Than A Feeling]

100. I think it was Linus Van Pelt who said it best...

Christmas is too commercial. That's my biggest problem with it.

[marions ghost]

101. Xmas is what you make it...

When I was a growing up both of my parents worked full time as journalists. There wasn't much money for gifts and not much time for shopping, but every year they managed to get Christmas together for 4 kids at the last minute. We always had one of those straggly spruce trees that was marked down to clear out the lot. Mom said to just put lots of tinsel (the silver mylar kind) in the bad spots. We had lots of generic red balls and motley ornaments made of felt, craft sticks, pipe cleaners. But Mom always exclaimed that our ugly duckling tree was absolutely beautiful. We kids also made a wreath and put some greenery and candles on the table and that was the extent of the decorations. On Christmas morning we got new school clothes, a book or two and one special gift each. I never was disappointed because getting anything new was a treat for us. Santa was very frugal by today's standards. And yet I still remember Christmas as a magical time, the highlight of the year really. My parents got to be home and everybody seemed happy and renewed by the end of it.

Greeting the winter with lights and celebration obviously symbolizes light overcoming darkness. Pagan rituals have their important psychological functions. Yes, it's become too commercialized but it is possible to stay out of malls and just do a little mail order, gift cards, photos--whatever's easy. We still do it my Mom's way--keep it simple, no stress, relax above all. Above all --relax.

We can take back Christmas !! :)

[Endangered Specie]

103. The only thing that gets me is the 24/7 christmas carols

that start in bloody October! :eyes:

Doesnt it sorta ruin the holiday to stretch it into 2+ months, it sure as hell says alot about our culture.

[Justice Is Comin]

104. Heard a saying once

Christmas is for the rich to enjoy

middle class to survive

and the poor to watch.


How true.

[Mutley]

119. That does seem to be true...

though I've seen some very poor people save for months and months so they can give their kids a good Christmas. I used to work with one woman, she and her daughter lived in one room. This woman would walk miles to work instead of taking the bus, eat every other day, and wear tattered clothing all so her daughter could have fun on Christmas. It was sad, but at the same time very heartening. She loved her daughter so much that she was willing to sacrifice just about everything to make her happy -- and she was glad to do it. She said her daughter's face on Christmas day made it all worth it.

[Redneck Socialist]

105. Christmas sucks sweaty donkey balls

I work retail.

[Mutley]

120. I hear ya...

I worked at Toys R Us for five years -- five Christmas'. This is my first free Christmas in a long time.

[julialnyc]

128. I don't blame you for hating it!

I worked retail for years during Christmas.

Non stop Christmas music (we would start the day with the straight forward songs, then the Elvis Christmas, then the Country Christmas, then the Sinatra Christmas, ect...... it is unbelievable how many people made money selling those damn songs). I don't know what was worse the crowds or the music (but I lean toward the music)

[LSdemocrat]

111. Other: religious non-Christian who doesn't have a problem with Christmas

[rasputin1952]

112. Christmas...No, I would not do away with it...

I have spent Many a Christmas Eve in many a different place. Sometimes in mud that was so deep, you'd think you were going to be stuck forever; in a desert where the silence was exhilarating; with my son, especially when he was younger, and I could relive the magic with him. I have spent a Christmas in a monsoon; in a drought; freezing and roasting, with family and friends and distanced by the world the Army had sent me to. I have spent a Christmas with the homeless, and have spent many working in a hospital years ago, where I became the family to patients that had none. I have seen children born on Christmas, and I have held the hands of the dying on Christmas.

For all of them...there are no regrets, no remorse, no lack of fondness for the Eve before, nor the day of the event.

I love to go out before the the event and see the lights,the warmth coming from the houses and the people finding a renewal...if even for a short while.

Like every other day, it is what you make of it. The refuge of the day is the Peace it symbolizes and the Hope it inspires. One need not be a Christian to enjoy the day; it is what it symbolizes that counts...the Hope.

O8)

[Mutley]

121. Beautiful words, rasputin.

Very moving. Thank you. :hug:

[toddaa]

113. I HATE Christmas

And yes, I'd really like to get rid of it. It's pointless. If your family can't figure out a way to get together and be nice without a bunch stupid decorations, maybe you're just wasting your time.

Arbor Day. Now THAT'S a holiday. Unobtrusive. Easily dismissed. And absolutely no religious nutcases defending it or protesting it.

[Mutley]

123. Well, you have a right to your opinion...

and I didn't start this thread to tell anyone how to feel, but rather to find out how everyone feels. Thanks for sharing with me. :)

[rasputin1952]

156. Arbor Day....I like Arbor Day as well...but there are those

that take a view of this day in religious reverance...think of those that view nature as the "Mother of All"....:)

A holiday, no matter what that day is, is what you make of it. I see little reason to despise any of them, but rather try to find why they became days that are set aside for people to think about just why they are here, and what they can do to make things better.

Sure, some are frivoulous...Ground Hog Day for instance....but the point of all of these days, and celebrations, is that they move us toward an aspect of the future...they give us a chance to make a difference.

I find it difficult to only look at what are the negative connotations of these days, that only moves one to despair; and why seek out the cloud inside the Silver Lining?

Allow those who do find goodness and hope to express those things in the holidays they celebrate.


:)

[Qibing Zero]

114. It's the winter solstace, baby.

The only problems I have with christmas are that it's a stolen holiday, and that it's celebrated on the wrong day.

[Mutley]

124. I've known Christians who refuse to believe that Christmas used to

be a pagan holiday. The information is right there in history for anyone who wants to find it, but they refuse. They just don't want to give up the illusion.

[MountainLaurel]

129. The same folks

Refuse to acknowledge that biblical stories, such as the Flood, Jesus, Jonah, etc., are nearly identical to those being told for eons in the Middle East prior to the birth of Christ. Hell, many don't know that: You'll never hear anything about Gilgamesh being taught in Sunday School, and most public schools don't cover world history in depth other than European.

[Swamp Rat]

115. Let's ban Christmas all together!

HAHA! Made you look. :D

I love holidays! ... any excuse to have a party!

[Mutley]

117. LOL!

You did make me look. :D And now that I don't work at Toys R Us anymore, I love holidays too!

[Oceansaway]

116. Done....

[obreaslan]

122. I am not religious, and I don't have a problem with Christmas.

I celebrate the Winter Soltice. I believe we should return Christmas to it's pagan origins.

Jo Saturnalia!

[Mutley]

126. I wouldn't say that it has to be returned to its pagan origins for

everyone. It's not the fault of today's Christians that yesterday's Christians stole the holiday from the pagans. But, they should at least market Christmas to both sides. When I have kids, I'd rather celebrate it as a pagan holiday myself.

[Vinca]

125. I'm an atheist and I have a problem with Christmas, but

it's not a religious thing and it's nothing that affects anyone else. When I was a little kid we had the best Christmases ever. It was like something out of a movie or maybe a Currier & Ives scene. All my relatives were there, presents were piled to the ceiling and it was perfect. Absolutely perfect. Then we got older and now my family is memories. It makes me very sad and I dread the holidays every year.

[Mutley]

127. I'm sorry it's a hard time for you.

:hug:

You have your DU family this year!

[Vinca]

130. Thanks . . . that's very sweet.

After rereading my post, I'm afraid I sound like a whiner. I'm actually very grateful for many things. I guess the problem with the holidays is the media overkill that gives the impression Christmas is the "happiest time of the year" when, in fact, it triggers major bouts of melancholy in many of us. Maybe I'll start celebrating Festivus . . . or continue the Fitzmas season!

[Mutley]

133. Fitzmas can go on all year!

:D

[maxsolomon]

131. Christmas co-opted Yule

I celebrate Yule now. Yule is good. You can do all the Xmas stuff you like on Yule, and you don't have to go to church.

Yule means greeting cards, parties, feasting, bonfires, tannenbaums, presents, & celebrating the natural cylce (you would be shocked how many people have no idea what a solstice is) of the only planet we have.

[Mutley]

134. I've explained the solstices to a lot of people...

so, I wouldn't be too shocked.

[maxsolomon]

137. it seems like something you might NOTICE, you know?

our connection to the planet is nearly lost.

[htuttle]

132. "Don't despair, just because it's Christmas"

"Children, they're
all so gay at Christmas.
All the children on the street
hope they get something good to eat.
But for me it's not so great.
Fuck Christmas!
Fuck Christmas!
Fuck Christmas!
Fuck Christmas!
Fuck Christmas!
Fuck Christmas!
Fuck Christmas!
Fuck Christmas!
Fuck Christmas!
Fuck Christmas!"
-- Fear, Fuck Christmas, 1982

[UncleSepp]

135. Christmas bugs me

I don't like that the nice gesture of giving something to someone because you like them, and because you think they'd like this cool thing you found, has been hijacked into "spend!!spend!!Auugh!!" And I really dislike when people feel pressured to give what they haven't got to those who don't need it, instead of giving what they have to those who do. It's a perversion of generosity.

[rasputin1952]

157. The most precious gift you can give someone...

is your presence...:)

I knew a family that thought Christmas had become too commercial, so they gave each other hand-made gifts....small, unobstusive things....things from within their hearts, each made with the recipiciant in mind. This was one of the most together families I had ever known...they were willing to give of themselves; no regrets and all love....:)

[Peter1x9]

136. I don't have a problem with Christmas, but I do have a problem

with the endless commercialization. It's not even Christmas anymore, it's just another marketing tool. The damn Christmas commercials have been on for a while now and it's not even Thanksgiving yet.

[Mutley]

138. Well, apparently it started early this year because the

retailers are all afraid they will bomb this season. So they think a few extra weeks will make a difference.

[sepia_steel]

139. I LOVE Christmas.

I love the holidays in general. I have respect for the faith(most faiths in general, too), even though I have some doubts about the way it is taught. Mostly I have a problem with the structure of most churches (read: MONEY) and the many members who don't act 'God-like' or 'Christ-like' at all, who are a poor reflection upon everyone else.

ON EDIT: I'm 'not religious' (for now). I'm sad too about the commercialization and the SPEND SPEND SPEND mentality. If I have money to spend I do, but I don't see why people put themselves in debt over it.

[stepnw1f]

140. Who Has a Problem with Halloween?

Now that's a poll we should show....

[Mutley]

141. I doubt many DUers would have a problem with Halloween.

And the ones who do just don't answer their door.

[stepnw1f]

148. The Right Wing Fundis Do Though.... Don't They?

No one else really has a problem with any Holiday, except for the Right Wing Nutcases. That's my point.

The "liberals hating x-mas" or "wanting to ban it".... is a joke. A "Red Herring" even. Though the Right Wing trying to ban a Holiday has been documented. HALLOWEEN.... Boohoowhaahaaa

[Arkana]

142. My view? I don't give a shit.

Let the fundies Xtianize their own displays all they want--I'm secure enough in my atheism to be unaffected by a nativity scene at a church.

[Mutley]

143. Amen!

;)

[I Have A Dream]

144. I'm not religious -- I'm spiritual -- and I have no problem with...

Christmas. However, I always try to say happy holidays when I know that the person is not Christian.

[Mutley]

145. As do I.

And I didn't see a way to cover all religious or spiritual possibilities in the poll so I kept it as general as possible. :)

[I Have A Dream]

147. Yeah, that's why I voted 'Other'.

:)

[Patsy Stone]

146. Only with its commercialization.

I'm not religious, I wasn't raised Christian, but I have no problem with the choice to celebrate it. Just don't make me.

[RB TexLa]

149. Christmas hasn't been the same to me for four years

After Sept 01, I did not feel right having a large celebration. Part of it was resentment of Bush screaming at everyone to "return to normalcy, and spend money to help the economy," not my job to help the economy! And I was not going to, I felt my money was better saved, we were still at a point where anything could have happened and I had absolutely NO concern about helping the economy. Now each year the idea of having Christmas like 2000 is just a reminder of the fact that the man behind killing 3000 people and was supposedly wanted "dead or alive," for a few weeks now, "doesn't matter" according to our government.

I'll go to church and be thankful to my faith and what I believe through it, but pass on the rest.

[Odin2005]

150. Tis the season to be jolly, falalalala lala la...

I'm an athiest, and I LOVE Christmas, I treat it as a winter solstice festival, it chears me up when it is so cold around here and the daylight hours so short. It is the COMMERCIALIZATION of Christmas I hate. It should be a time for charity and family, not SPEND, SPEND, SPEND. The REAL St. Nicholas was a Greek bishop in the Byzantine city of Nicea who helped poor kids, for example.

[Bridget Burke]

154. Saint Nicholas saved three sisters from lives of prostitution!

Their father lacked money for dowries. But mysterious bags of gold were thrown through the window, so they could become virtuous wives.

Several Pagan gods survive in Santa, as well. "The Wild Hunt" appears in Germanic, Slavic & "Celtic" stories. Riding through the land (or the sky) at night, their battle cries & the baying of their hounds made good people shiver around the fire. Best not to meet them outside! Was Odin the leader? Or an Irish god with antlers on his head (not on his deer)? Being Irish, did he also bear the Red Nose later seen on Rudolph? The mood of the cowboy song "Riders in the Sky" seems to have old roots.

Santa Claus is now a Jolly Old Elf. But some of his relatives in other countries bring bad presents to bad kiddies.

Drinks shared around a fire on the darkest night of the year can cause Green Language--playing with words from the old stories & making up new ones. Fundamentalists--run away! Serious folklorists may also flee--unless they can persuaded to share a drop. After all, they know some pretty good stories.

[Mutley]

151. So it would seem that the general consensus is

at worst, people on DU think Christmas should be less commercialized. Hear that freepers? Your drug addled friend and his ilk are LYING to you!

[Brewman_Jax]

152. Here's a likely exchange...

Freeper: "I don't know why they want to get rid of Christmas? It is the Christmas season."

Me: "First, no one is trying to get rid of Christmas; there are people who don't celebrate Christmas. Christmas isn't the only holiday during this timeframe."

Freeper: "Well, it should be. It was Merry Christmas and Christmas holidays when I was little."

Me: "May I wish you Happy Hannukah?"

Freeper: "Happy Hannukah? Why? I'm not Jewish."

Me: "Really? I couldn't tell. Now, what makes you think that I'm a Christian?"

Freeper: "Well, uh..."

Me: "Okay, now you'd probably be very offended if I wished you Happy Kwanzaa."

Freeper: (shocked) "I'm not black! Or African-American, or whatever they call themselves."

Me: "I rest my case. If you have that much trouble being wished something other than Merry Christmas, you may want to stay with Happy Holidays."

********
That was a logical extension of a partial exchange I had. It's the exclusiveness that grates on me.

[lonestarnot]

153. It has become the sale after the day.

[freestyle]

155. I have a problem with what Christmas has become.

If it were about all the things that Christ was supposed to bring into the world, it would be a very good holiday. Now, it is all about greed and commercialism. News coverage is far more likely to be about whether retailers will hit their numbers than about peace on earth and goodwill to all.

But then, Christmas is really a repackaged version of Yule anyway. I am a Christian, but Christmas is declining is significance for me.

[ComerPerro]

158. I've got a major problem with Christmas

Just who does this Santa guy think he is, and what gives that pervert the right to watch people while they sleep?

[LuCifer]

159. OTHER!

Ok, I'm a SATANIST (go to http://www.ChurchOfSatan.com for more info before you call me a "baby-raper" or "cat-killer" quite the CONTRARY) but I still do Xmas...cuz it's originally a...drum roll please...

PAGAN HOLLIDAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

What the HELL? Billy Idol has a CHRISTMAS SONG?! Am I hallucinating?! "Yellin At The Xmas Tree"!!!!!!!!
:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
BWAAHAHAHAAHA! This is some funny shit!!!!!!! Now how this works into an album titles "DEVIL'S PLAYGROUND" I'll never know. This is even better than "CHRISTMAS WITH THE DEVIL" by Spinal Tap!!!!! Ok, so, I guess this makes 4 Xmas songs (this, Spinal Tap's, Queen's "Thank God It's Christmas" and The Eagles's song whatever the hell it's called) I can atually listen to WITHOUT vomiting blood!!!!!!!!!!

GET "DEVIL'S PLAYGROUD" BY BILLY IDOL! ESPECIALLY IF YOU LIKE HIS OLD GENERATION X STUFF, IT'S RAW LIKE THAT AND KICKS SERIOUS ASS!!!!!!!!!

Lu

[Sis Donna Toone]

160. RE: The Problem With Christmas

Christmas has one set problem. It is used for greedly overbering purposes.

Such as/For Instance: The last thing a mid-size business would do was to NOT Capitilize on ones family/loved ones 'gourging sadistic ambitions' with "Go Get It, Come Get It" Ads.; AND: Everybody lies on the job (then quits leaving the employer excited).; AND:
People use it to virtually torture their children (to one day returning the favor), and the child-care inter-web is left to analyze the problems.

Christmas Is All Right, All Ways Will Be, Only "One Better Remember To Not Let One's Guard Down".

[rucky]

161. If cookies weren't so darn fattening, I'd have no problem w X-mas. nt

[Coastie for Truth]

162. I am NOT Christian - but I am religious - and I do not have a problem

From my days as a "boot Ensign" in the Coast Guard to today, as a retiree who still has the time and stamina to "volunteer" - through the Red Cross and our local OES-FEMA- - I am providing more emergency housing and social service to victims of localized disasters (residential fires) then I do the rest of the year combined.

Just since 11/23 I have been observing Thanksgiving by assisting at the Security/Telecommunications desk of a local hospital - and providing service to several fire victims.

I have no problem with Christmas - it is a chance to serve.

And I am NOT a Christian.

[Mark E. Smith]

163. Imported Chinese Plastic Day

An opportunity to mainline cheap labor junk into America.