Curveball-MASSIVE LA TIMES- 3 Full Pages on Bush truth twisting

[kpete]

Sun Nov 20, 2005 at 09:21:19 AM PDT

Wow, an amazing piece, massive and comprehensive:
THE CURVEBALL SAGA
How U.S. Fell Under the Spell of 'Curveball'
(pour yourself a BIG cup of coffee!)
excerpts below...

THE CURVEBALL SAGA
How U.S. Fell Under the Spell of 'Curveball'
The Iraqi informant's German handlers say they had told U.S. officials that his information was 'not proven,' and were shocked when President Bush and Colin L. Powell used it in key prewar speeches.

By Bob Drogin and John Goetz, Special to The Times

BERLIN -- The German intelligence officials responsible for one of the most important informants on Saddam Hussein's suspected weapons of mass destruction say that the Bush administration and the CIA repeatedly exaggerated his claims during the run-up to the war in Iraq.

Five senior officials from Germany's Federal Intelligence Service, or BND, said in interviews with The Times that they warned U.S. intelligence authorities that the source, an Iraqi defector code-named Curveball, never claimed to produce germ weapons and never saw anyone else do so.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-curveball20nov20,0,1753730.story?page=1&coll=la-home-headlines
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2005/11/20/41728/042

Kpete: I know I keep posting this story, but I think it is just incredible illuminating.

[Thickasabrick]

1. Good Article

It boils down to....our premier source of intelligence was a nutjob wanting a german visa.

[Octafish]

4. Yeah, and pretzeldent nutjob ran with it to his warmonger handlers..

WHIG and the OSP "cherry-picked" from curveballs and Chalabi and the Nigerian forger and the phony aluminum tube fellers and gave good ol' Tenet a medal and said, "Go Go War."



Most important: A hearty welcome to DU, whutgives.

[newyawker99]

5. Hi whutgives!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[hwmnbn]

12. Yeah whutgives, welcome to DU....

:hi:

[Marnieworld]

39. You're forgetting the other source of intelligence

He was being detained and gave up info while being "interrogated" that was discredited in Feb 2002. His info was the basis of the Iraq helps Al Queda lie, training in bio and chem weapons etc. This was recently de-classified and release by Senator Levin.

Then there was the drunk that said Atta met with an Iraqi in Praque.

And of course Chalabi couldn't have any motives for telling tall tales. It's just a coincedence that he has a position of power in Iraq now.

So we got one defector who wants a German visa.
Some lying drunk.
A guy being tortured to get info later proven to be lies.
And another exiled Iraqi who wants to take over the country.

That's what we went to war over, but I'm the "reprehensible" one for pointing this out.

By the way, Welcome to DU! :hi:

[Dudley_DUright]

2. File this as yet another example of BushCo's

willful suspension of disbelief, AKA lying.

[MnFats]

3. thank you for posting again...first time I've seen it. n/t

[burythehatchet]

6. that reporting is simply "irresponsible"

:eyes:

[Supersedeas]

48. Yea, rewriting history with the Truth when so much propoganda was spilled

[mzmolly]

7. Curveball was convenient. They likely didn't even believe him/her.

:hi:

[rateyes]

8. "But, but, didn't Tenet say it was...

a slam dunk?" "Curveball hung and Dubya SWINGS AND MISSES."

[druidity33]

13. the funny thing is...

If anyone up top paid attention to the baseball terminology, this may never have gone anywhere. (a curveball is something that as a batter and/or catcher, after it is thrown you never know where it is going to land... not even the pitcher does really... it is also pure deception because the pitcher often mimics the delivery of let's say his fastball to make you think that's what he'll throw. It and the knuckleball are as close to cheating as you can get on the pitchers mound). A slam dunk on the other hand is as clear and dramatic as it can get... literally the exact opposite of a curveball. Opposite Man at it again... ie. Clear Skies Act, Healthy Forests Initiative, etc.

[DoYouEverWonder]

30. Bob Woodward claimed Tenet said it was a slam dunk

and we all know what a liar Woodward is now.

[DeepModem Mom]

9. Guys, please remember this story when you paint print media w/ broad brush

And there are many others like it in LBN every day, from NYT, WP and LAT -- despite their many transgressions. Bloggers on the net serve an increasingly important purpose, but they, as yet, don't have the news-gathering resources our beleagured newspapers do. And if we had to rely on TV news? Forget it.

[blm]

10. My take: 3yrs worth of enabling media covering their butt with a 3pg story

because they know HISTORY and the facts are catching up to them.

They can no longer spin Bush into a truthful straightshooter anymore, so they are playing catch up journalism to rescue any shred of credibility they can before they are unmasked any further for their own complicity.

Thanks to the Plame investigation.

[DeepModem Mom]

16. They've won several Pulitzers for investigative reporting...

in the last two or three years, one for a multi-part expose of Wal-Mart. I find the LAT more valuable than the NYT or WP on these kinds of stories. Not being in NY or D.C., they do more of this kind of in-depth, investigative reporting. Yeah, I often get good and mad at them, but if more Americans got their news from the LAT than from TV, we might not be in the mess we're in.

[blm]

20. I was speaking more generally about the media, but my specific

problems with the LATimes is that they worked with the NYT to kill the BCCI story and the CIA drugrunning story by Gary Webb.

Webb had a Pulitzer prize winning story but the LAT and NYT discredited his work and did so ACTIVELY. It was only years later that the CIA documents were released that confirmed Webb's story. There was never any followup by LA or NY to acknowledge their errors, while Gary Webb couldn't even get employment and his life was destroyed.

[DeepModem Mom]

21. I defer to your knowledge of this coverage, blm. Both of...

these stories occurred before I became as aware as I am now (thanks to the stolen election of 2000) with more than one newspaper, and multiple news sources. I am familiar with the stories, however, and I know that the role the LAT, and other media, played in them was reprehensible.

[blm]

22. My spouse works in a newsroom.

I am painfully aware of the politics involved on a daily basis.

KnightRidder - the most honest news service we have right now - may be bought up by the Carlyle Group. That's how the BFEE works.

They acquire whatever operation gets in their way....one way or another.

[DeepModem Mom]

24. Oh, wow -- I also have a very close family member...

working at a newspaper. It's a noble calling and rewarding work (not so much financially, of course), but very frustrating, and, more and more, full of apprehension. And, of course, like a lot of workplaces, full of political intrigue, as you note.

[Pacifist Patriot]

31. I too have family in the print media business.

Many newsroom personnel are as frustrated, if not more so, than their circulation. Some are willing to turn a blind eye but most feel hamstrung from what I can see.

[DeepModem Mom]

32. From what I've heard, you are exactly right about newsroom personnel. nt

[AntiFascist]

25. Didn't he go after Clintons also?

:hide:

[rman]

37. Doesn't say a thing about what they didn't investigate and report,

nor does it say a thing about what they have spun.

[lostnfound]

11. This is probably why they fired 85 reporters & an oped columnist

This article may be the last burst of liberal light before the left is purged by the darkside

[DeepModem Mom]

19. It will be interesting to see what happens. I personally would rather...

have Dean Baquet as editor of a major newspaper than either Bill Keller or Leonard Downie. I think he's twice as smart as either of them. And he came very close to leaving the LAT under the harsh budgeting of the Tribune company, but instead, given the opportunity to be editor, he decided to give it a go. I wish him the best. The newspaper business is in trouble.

[rodeodance]

28. The print msm does much better than the cable networks

[kpete]

14. More on Curveball from Josh Marshall:

Tucked into that LA Times article about 'Curveball' is yet more evidence that we are still yet to have a serious and comprehensive investigation of the handling of WMD intelligence in the lead-up to the Iraq war.

There are some many bits of evidence. But this one is worth noting.

From the LAT (emphasis added) ...

Curveball was the chief source of inaccurate prewar U.S. accusations that Baghdad had biological weapons, a commission appointed by Bush reported this year. The commission did not interview Curveball, who still insists his story was true, or the German officials who handled his case.
The German account emerges as the White House is lashing out at domestic critics, particularly Senate Democrats, over allegations the administration manipulated intelligence to go to war. Last week, Vice President Dick Cheney called such claims reprehensible and pernicious.

The White House, for example, ignored evidence gathered by United Nations weapons inspectors shortly before the war that disproved Curveball's account. Bush and his aides issued increasingly dire warnings about Iraq's biological weapons before the war even though intelligence from Curveball had not changed in two years.
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-curveball20nov20,0,1753730.story?coll=la-home-headlines

and again from Josh Marshall:

So the Silbermann-Robb Commission hasn't spoken to Curveball or the German intelligence officials who handled his case and provided the conduit of information to US intelligence agencies. Almost certainly, the Senate intel committee investigation hasn't either. But the LA Times has managed to speak with a slew of current and former intelligence officials who have provided information not included in those official reports.

This speaks again to a point we and many others have made repeatedly: the highly circumscribed nature of these two investigations. The very structure and scope of these inquiries were designed to leave much of the story untold -- quite apart from the numerous intentionally misleading passages we've noted in the Senate intel report from last year.

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/

[mucifer]

15. the chicago trib is doing a series of article about how

bush is right for sending us to war . makes me sick!

[nolabels]

27. "Curveball was the chief source of inaccurate prewar U.S. accusations"

Get that effing line,
"Curveball was the chief source of inaccurate prewar U.S. accusations that Baghdad had biological weapons"

Yet corporate media bestowed it like it was gospel

Corporate media this monkey is on your back too, and no matter the case, people will remember.

Corporations were much responsible for bringing on WWII (and several wars after it) but never owned up to it. They spent much of the last half century buying up things that could report it that way and trying to rewrite that little caveat of history, when is enough enough?

[rodeodance]

29. yet we have Repugs and RW pundits day after day using these

reports to claim all is well@@!!!! day after day.

....This speaks again to a point we and many others have made repeatedly: the highly circumscribed nature of these two investigations. The very structure and scope of these inquiries were designed to leave much of the story untold -- quite apart from the numerous intentionally misleading passages we've noted in the Senate intel report from last year.

[Mutley]

17. Hmmm, well I'm sure the wingnuts will now start boycotting Germany, too.

:eyes:

[cui bono]

45. No more German Chocolate Cake...

or German Pancakes ( I better alert iHop!)... What will they call them now?

[upi402]

18. 62% against * so with this, and covering for firing lib Op-Ed columnist

Backlash surprised them, then they had to see the unpopularity of * BS war. So they let one out. Not impressed, neither are the dead troops. Neither is American democracy which they betrayed.

[BamaBecky]

23. kick

[Wilms]

26. kick n/t

[cui bono]

46. question... what does nt n/t mean?

is it a DU thing? I've never seen it before. But then I usually see "bump" and not "kick" too.

[Wilms]

47. n/t means "no text" in the reply, other than the subject line. n/t

[cui bono]

50. Ah. Thanks. n/t

[SunDrop23]

33. I mentioned this to one of the Klansmen I work with and he...

made a reference to Germany and WWII and also said "if it was true, why did they wait this long to bring it up?" Also told me I would be speaking German if it wasn't for guys like Bush. I told him Prescott tried his best to make it happen. He gave me this blank look then started talking on his mobile phone. I'm thinking there will be a cross in my yard tonight.

[lonestarnot]

34. WHIGs knew this bitch was a crazed freak. They were warned. They

didn't believe him either. Just used him as another excuse to kill, steal and lie! Bastards!

[snappyturtle]

35. WOW! ..........

this is huge thank you for posting! I am so encouraged by this report. Maybe, just maybe, NOW everyone will see how this administration sought and succeeded in duping the world.....I also think it's time to give thanks for this exposure!!! Couldn't have come at a better time of the year.

[demo dutch]

40. I wouldn't be surprised if they put Curveball up to it in the first place

[umtalal]

36. I no longer subscribe to the LA Times because of Scheer's firing.

Thank you for posting this.

[MellowOne]

38. It is incredible.

Makes you feel much safter, doesn't it? (sacrasim)

[Patrick J Fitzgerald]

41. I see right through liars...

and the lying liars who tell them every day. This is Bush league!

http://patrickjfitzgerald.blogspot.com

[Patsy Stone]

42. Welcome to DU, PJF.

:hi:

[neuvocat]

43. The U.S. didn't fall under the spell of Curve Ball, the media did.

The same is true for the Bushbots who watch T.V. news religiously who repeated the calls over and over to go to Iraq without a proper cause. The republicans and the media and their respective followers want to avoid blame in this regard, but seriously folks: how else do you explain how average citizens like you and me with less resources than what the press has are able to be a lot better informed on current events?

[usregimechange]

44. Kick!

[Uncle Joe]

49. Too bad, the Washinton Post thought sports was more important.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=5422397&mesg_id=5422397

Kicked and nominated.



:kick:

[JWS]

51. Easy answer,

Puppet was told something by Cheney, Puppet gives press conference with false info, Puppet's faithful bobbleheads echo false info, and then we go into Iraq. Can't get simpler than that, ever hear of Occam's razor?

[Fritz67]

52. My question is...

...Why does the LA Times Hate America/Freedom/The Troops/ect?
:sarcasm:

[biggles1]

53. Perhaps George recognised the "psychologically unstable"

Curveball as a kindred spirit!

[DemonFighterLives]

54. He sent them a curveball alright

:beer:

[occuserpens]

55. Finally, something new on IWMD

In fact, "mobile bio-weapon production sites" look warped from the technical prospective. Why make them mobile, just to dupe the inspectors? Gimme a break!

IWMD blog: http://inplainview.us.tt/newsWorldMEIraq0WMD.htm

[Al-CIAda]

56. .