Where are we? What has become of us as a nation?

[nadinbrzezinski]

Some are shocked to see rage on these boards for what has been done to our country. So it is time to once again stop and look at the sign posts.

The signposts are not nice, for they point to a furthering of violence against us... the American people by a group of very cynical men and women who praise the mighty dollar and power.

So the first sign post on the road is the inceased division in the country. What we saw in congreess the other day is unprecedented in modern history... but we have had many of those unprecedented moments. This is just the latest. Who can forget the Capitol Police kickng the Dems out? May I remind you that is against the rules.

Who can forget one Congressman calling another a fruitcake (A republican from Colorado who called a senior Democrat that on the floor but two years ago.)

Who can forget a US Senator being placed on the no fly list? (Kennedy),

And now we have had a vote on the house which is purely a reverse robin hood. There has been a declaration of war by some against the middle class and the lower classes of the American people, and we are loosing. So some state what are the first glimmers of class consciousness and point out that this war is now ongoing... and others get a little angry becuase this is not as neat as the theory says it should be?

Other pointers of where we are... the screams of you are against us or with us just increase. This time in the form of a Junior Congresswoman who used a letter from a Marine Colonel who has never seen war or combat. Trust me, if he had, his views would be different.

Where have we come from? All nations have a preparation before, well before, they go into a hot civil war... we have been in those prelims for a while, at least 1996, and the people who relish in this, thankfully, have no idea what they are bringing, for the winds they are sowing... for the worst kind of hot war is brother against brother, yet today we have famlies who cannot talk to each other. They cannot seat together and share a holiday meal... those are the steps needed for a hot civil war.

Now there are some that claim that recognition of this reality is pushing for that reality of war. Moreover, they claim this is a fantasy... ok let me paint a real picture of combat, my combat, my geting shot at...

It was day, we were called because somebody did something real stupid and when we got on scene, one idiot was laying on the muck, bleeding... and moving. We had a mexican stand off where both sides were looking for possition, with AK-47s... yet here we had this idiot in the middle, inside a small hole on the ground full of piss, full of dreck, and full of blood. So I had to crawl the hundred meters to get to his side, all the while hearing the sound of ammo going over me, and seeing the splatter as some of those bullets as they hit the ground... hearing the crack, crakc, crack of an AK, or two... smellign my own fear, and realizing I probably pissed myself. Those hundred meters were probably the longest in my life... once I reached this casualty, who was still breathing, but chocking in his own blood, and moaning in pain, I had to drag his sorry ass back... using the poor cover of a drainage ditch... Pulling, as my right arm burned from the muscle, and my left arm looked for purchase. Crawling every so slowly, smelling the cordite, smelling the dreck, and smelling the fresh blood... and smelling the fear. (Oh and he made it.. and I shook for over an hour after we turned him over to medical)

So that was my intro... not the only time, but I have smelled and tasted it, and for god sakes no veteran wants to go there, but will never turn away from battle when there is no choice.

I have seen bodies torn asumder by high power weapons and have been shot at more times than I care to remember and do remember them every time... so take you have no idea what war is, or you are fantasizing about it somewhere else and shove it. As one who has been there, done that... this is not something I relish, but the pointers are there.. the pointers for a cold civil war turning hot... and once that happens... all bets are off. Do I pray we find a peaceful way out of this mess? You betcha, but I am not counting on it anymore... stopped doing that as soon as I noticed that Republicans I knew stopped emailing me or talking to me after calling me a traitor and worst... why? I dared question the war.

[lildreamer316]

1. Exactly.

It sucks; but I believe I can see it coming....maybe not as bad as all that, but there will be some problems.
I am having the gun discussion for real with SO when he gets home this evening. (We have a 2 year old; alot to consider).

[nadinbrzezinski]

3. Gun safe

I believe in a gun safe and a gun lock.

And as a former medic I go to the range often now... and have gotten somewhat proficient... no, don't like them one bit, but if it comes down to that I know I will have to take sides... i also know I will have to use those skills... and may have to use a side arm to protect my patients.

[lildreamer316]

4. Yes; good advice.

I don't know how to shoot yet; so i'm going to have to learn and how. At first the idea scared the shit out of me, but I think it is best to face your fears, know what I mean?

Our son is not much on opening things we tell him NO to,and putting it high up in a safe with a lock should do the trick. We will take it year by year.

[nadinbrzezinski]

7. When he is old enough take him to the range

find a range that teaches gun safety, and always remember, respect that gun... and its potencial. My niece, she grew up in a police family, and she grew up among many a side arm and long arm... she started going to the range and learning they were not toys I think as early as eight

[Erika]

2. Declaring war on a country who was never a threat to us

says it all. The bragging of a shock and awe campaign against a third world country makes us barf when we see Iraqi kids limbless because of that campaign. Do we hold our troops accountable? No, it is W who is accountable.

Now W has turned the Iraqi turmoil he caused into a civil war. But our troops are still dying www.icasualties.org But he's on to touring China. After all, he doesn't worry about his kids being lost in his insane war in Iraq.

[nadinbrzezinski]

5. Yes that is another pointer on how we have lost a moral

compass we used to have, we do here, but you know what I mean

[Sandpiper]

6. Fascism is where we are: Let me count the ways

As I posted in another thread recently, we have...

1) A Leader whose support is as much a personality cult as a political movement

2) Corporate Oligarchy

3) Worship of Heroic Militarism

4) Wars of Aggression

5) Demonization of an ethnic "enemy"

6) Dissent labelled as unpatriotic/treasonous

7) The Patriot Act and its evisceration of the Bill of Rights

8) Secret gulag-style prisons and torture centers

9) Anti-intellectualism and open hostility towards science, scientists, researchers, university professors, etc.


Let's call it what is. Under Dubya, the United States has become decidedly Fascist.

[nadinbrzezinski]

8. YES, you will not get any arguments from me

trust me on that one

[Erika]

9. With a hope of becoming theocratic/corporate/fascist

No, we won't let them. Might have to steal the kool aid of the Bushbots but it will be done.

[undergroundpanther]

10. Believe it or not war is not the only place for violence

In a white suburban"nice" town my father tried to kill my mom by putting a loaded rifle against her head. he clicked the hammer I sprang over the coffee table and slammed into him,the rifle hit the floor and shot off somewhere in the hallway as mom and I split out the front and back doors,ran to her car as bullets whizzed by the car one hit the door mom crammed my head down almost against the floorboard with her free hand as she pealed out of the driveway.

This incident was because we had to ask the asshole to sign the tax form for the house we had just left because of him about a month earlier.

I have been shot at in Baltimore city when a crazy guy who apparently liked me(I had no clue) ran us out of a local punk club ,as we ran he shot his gun at me and a guy I asked out from across the street as he ran after us.The bullets pinged off everywhere,I didn't think,I just ran until I got to my place,about a block and a half away .I pounded the door,until one of the other house mates let me in. I was so scared standing on the steps as I fumbled for my key,I was so trembly I could not line it up into the lock,I remember bullets ricocheting off the iron decorative porch railings.
There were other incidents in my life that showed me just how nuts narcissistic people can get when they think they can own you or they think they are "entitled" to control you or something.

Luckily neither time I peed myself,but damn I thought I did..and I didn't care.I too shook almost convulsively after these incidents for awhile too. These incidents are part of the reason I have PSTD.
And I am no Veteran.But my experiences are so similar. I guess shell shock is shell shock regardless of the context of where it happens,it always hurts and it burrows into your mind and defies logic reason and peace..

[nadinbrzezinski]

11. Oh trust me I know it is not

though that was a story of the war on drugs, as an urban medic I got to respond to plenty of incidents, that shall we say have more violence than I want to think about... hey once we went in, separated teh parties and realized, there are shotguns here, probably loaded... we all acted as if nothing was there. Then there was the time I was chased by a boy scout with an axe... we wanted to take the wife to the hospital and she watned to press charges.

So I know war is not the only place where violence exists... it is all around us... but that little story was meant for some who think I fantasize about that... which I don't.


I hope your mom is now safe... I've met plenty of A-Holes in my life time who ahem go ballistic...

[undergroundpanther]

12. Ballistic

Assholes here Assholes in a war.

Either way it's trauma that creating and recreating this shit,shame humiliation, hierarchy, social domination,and the myth of"independent self made man" gone pathological..It's all obey and work and you are not allowed to a life of your own if it is not what is in the range of what we are taught we want to have..It's this stoic puritanical crap of work all the time,you must present the"appropriate" image and there is no time to feel who YOU are inside and because culture is so stifling there is no confidence created within when it is most needed in a lot of peoples development to feel they are sufficient as they are.In others they are narcissists sociopaths to defend their self from the onslaught of as sick socialization/domestication process...It's compulsive subordination to symbolic authority that is just incompetents and bullies with false authority getting off on domination power in a context where that game is not seen as wrong publicly.. but in real life emotions in real people it is very wrong on a personal/relational level.

It's the mentality of do as I want and say,not as I do.It's obey,conform,believe,serve,pay,hate yourself and deny it,to save face,and shut up,suffer in silence,live a lie, or die.
People can become violent when from cradle to grave they are oppressed,shamed,humiliated and devalued in a million different ways a billion different times by countless people they relate to under such unequal,sick, socially distorted cultures that makes us go crazy..

[nadinbrzezinski]

13. I know, I try to live my life as cratively as I can

and in peace... but I know not all share this... and it is not the puritanical ways... this happens everywhere...

Now my time to go become a cocoon

[Jamastiene]

14. We are about a quarter of a mile form hell riding in the latest

Humvee model of a handbasket, thanks to Bush and his henchmen.

[PhilipShore]

15. Gandhi on Anger

I have learned through bitter experience the one supreme lesson to conserve my anger, and as heat conserved is transmuted into energy, even so our anger controlled can be transmuted into a power which can move the world."

— from Gandhi the Man, by Eknath Easwaran, Nilgiri Press.

______________________________


Understanding Anger

Arun Gandhi

http://www.gandhiinstitute.org/Library/LibraryItem.cfm?LibraryID=764

[AuntPatsy]

17. there was a code of honor that most followed back then, such

is not a part of this new world...

Different times.

[nadinbrzezinski]

18. Very different times

And Western Civ would be such a good idea, if it was practical... such were the words of Ghandhi who suffered under the boot of the British Empire. Reality is he also was able to win becuase of that small matter called WW II... if that never happened and the brits were not exhuausted, I am not sure they would have left India and the rest of the colonies.

[AuntPatsy]

19. Exactly

[nadinbrzezinski]

16. kick