Reuters: Rumsfeld May be Target of New Grand Jury

[kpete]

Reuters: Rumsfeld May be Target of New Grand Jury
by leveymg
Sat Nov 19, 2005 at 05:00:01 AM PDT
According to Reuters, Woodward's source wasn't Cheney or Hadley - Rumsfeld is the one top Administration official who hasn't issued a denial. Also, Rove is still a focus of the inquiry. See, below.

Fitzgerald may also be pursuing new leads following Washington Post journalist Bob Woodward's disclosure that he was told about Plame in mid-June 2003.

SNIP

"The investigation will involve proceedings before a different grand jury than the grand jury which returned the indictment" against Libby, Fitzgerald said in a court motion, which spelled out a compromise with media organizations for access to some documents in the Libby case.

SNIP

While people close to Rove sought to play down the implications, a lawyer involved in the leak case said, "It can't make Rove feel good." "He (Fitzgerald) can supersede the Libby grand jury (indictment) to include other crimes or other people," the lawyer said, speaking on condition of anonymity because the investigation was ongoing.

SNIP

A lawyer in the case said Woodward's source had not previously testified before a grand jury in the leak case. Pentagon spokesman Bryan Whitman would not answer directly whether Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld was Woodward's source.

White House national security adviser Stephen Hadley, with Bush at an Asia-Pacific summit in Pusan, South Korea, left it to aides to put out the word that he was not the source.

Neither was Cheney nor Bush, according to current and former officials and their lawyers, none of whom would agree to be identified.

http://aolsvc.news.aol.com/news/article.adp?id=20051118121109990006&ncid=NWS00010000000001
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2005/11/19/701/31559

[Catch22Dem]

1. Bullshit...I don't think Rummy could mastermind anything

He's just a follower.

[havocmom]

2. He had some big time masterminds with agendas working for him

or maybe it was the other way 'round.

Rumsfeld is a broker. He profits from using influence and position to push the agendas of others. We have lots of people with health problems stemming from aspartame due to this talent of his.

Now we have lots of dead people, maimed people, and people who hate us for what we have done to their lives. And Rummy is doing jis fine.

[havocmom]

3. Just heard on CNN: Doug Feith is now under investigation

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x5404464

The Wolf and the Perle under the microscope next?

Materminds with agendas, just like I said. Rumsfeld is just the broker.

[Clark2008]

4. Couldn't happen to a nicer guy.

:sarcasm:

[HereSince1628]

19. For sure Rumsfeld could be a target of THAT probe

and, it is possible that the Department of Defense Inspector General believes that crimes were committed and has recommended criminal investigation.

It's just hard to imagine "I can justify torture" Gonzales assigning a prosecutor to do it.

[FreedomAngel82]

43. But who does he follow?

Cheney or Bush or both? :shrug: I think Rumsfeld is a key though. If you haven't go to http://www.pbs.org and try to find the documentary "Rumsfeld's War."

[DoYouEverWonder]

5. Oh this is almost too good to be true

Oh please be true, please, please....

[Wilms]

6. kick n/t

[Spazito]

7. I ABSOLUTELY love that the media and all their 'sources' don't

have a friggin clue what Fitzgerald knows, who are and are not targets or who is even cooperating with him. Bottom line, they know squat and that is just as it should be!

[RB TexLa]

8. Isn't it nice to have a prosecutor that works without leaks n/t

[Spazito]

9. It certainly is and it calls attention to how appalling Starr was in

comparison and that, too, makes me smile!

[RazzleDazzle]

38. More accurately,

IMO, it calls attention to the fact that it's not impossible to have a big investigation without leaks by officials, and that Starr's investigation by comparison was purely political, which means that those leaks were part of the political war being waged against Clinton.

[IkeWarnedUs]

51. Nice to have a prosecutor that works without leaks?

Yes and no. Yes because it is evidence of Fitzgerald's respect for the rule of law. No because, being someone who loves instant gratification too much, the waiting is driving me crazy. Maybe Fitz could leak just to me? We're both Chicagoans - I won't say anything.

[Historic NY]

10. Thats plausible.....Rummy shoots from the lip.......

I could see him forgetting.

[DearAbby]

11. It could be anybody and their dog...Fitz isn't talking so it is all

conjecture. Regardless it smacks conspiracy. that to me is music to my ears. What did * know and when did he know it.

Woodward opened a huge can of worms.

[awoke_in_2003]

13. "What did * know and when did he know it"

To quote rummy "there are known knowns and known unknowns", etc

[libodem]

12. he's a worm

[Disturbed]

14. Congress doesn't have the guts to Impeach Rumsfailed.

Rumsfailed Admitted to Violating Geneva Convention

Rumsfailed admitted in public on TV that when CIA Director Tenet requested that an Iraqi prisoner be sent to a secret Afghan/US Prison that Rumsfailed did so. After four months a DOD Attorney stated that this was an illegal act. Rumsfailed then ordered that this prisoner be sent back to Abu Graihib but the prisoner was purposefully not listed at that location, also an illegal act. Rumsfeld also admitted to signing orders for tougher interogation methods which violated the Geneva Conventions.

Rumfailed has commited at least three violations of the Geneva Convention thereby also violations of The Constitution of the USA. Recently it has been found out that even more detainees were "ghost detainees". The fact that Rumsfailed and Tenet have not been charged speaks volumes. If Congress wishes to garner any respect they should move forward with Rep. Rangle's Impeachment Declaration of Rumsfailed and also prosecute Ex. CIA Tenet.

The US, Govt., Congress, and the Justice Dept no longer abide by the Geneva Convention or the Constitution of the USA.

[ClintonTyree]

52. How many reasons does bush need to fire this asshole?

He's fucked up everything he's attempted every step of the way. Oh... I guess that's why bush won't fire him, they're too much alike. Kindred spirits in the world of calamity.

[Justice Is Comin]

15. What I like

is the fact there will be a new grand jury. I think Fitzgerald may have tried to convince that grand jury to pass up more indictments than they did. I feel really strong about that. Remember the envelope that was attached to the indictment.


Maybe this one, especially with the new gift just handed us of Woodward, will not only issue those indictments but even more. It would be just too great if the same one that is hearing Abramhof is chosen for this also. :woohoo:

[leveymg]

33. Re: the Abramoff GJ. Astute point.

But, what I'd like to see is the Plame, Abramoff and OSP-AIPAC spy case all brought under one prosecutor. You know who.

[aquart]

39. After two years, you think that jury wasn't ready to indict?

I promise you, they were ready to hang.

That jury has heard so much more than we have. And they were LIED to. They were lied to their faces. People lied in front of them. At them. Under oath. They lied to a jury that had already seen documentation that TOLD them they were hearing lies.

And they have also been told what it means to out a NOC.

Fitzgerald didn't bring the charges. He wanted more.

Check his record for the way he operates. This guy is sweet and scary.

[radio4progressives]

58. a "new" grand jury could mean an existing grand jury hearing investigating

on other matters. (such as the forged niger documents) ...

or he has the option of swearing in a brand new grand jury.

this is a roller coaster...

by the way, Fitz should be hearing testimony from the entire WHIG cabal, which includes (Hadley's former boss) Condi Rice, Karen Hughes, and the two heads of black shirt fascists brigade, rummy and dicky.

[KarenS]

16. be still my beating heart,,,,

OHHHHHH wouldn't it be sooooooo delicious??

getting my hopes up here,,,,

charge these criminals, one and all!!!

[HereSince1628]

17. I know the feeling, I'm afraid that it seems too good.

But we can cross our fingers and hope.

[matcom]

18. WAIT A MINUTE!! HOLD IT!!

explain this please

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x1936405

[The Witch]

21. If I'm not mistaken, the meme is that...

Hadley is one of Woodward's inside sources but it was not him who gave the name (She-Who-Must-Not-Be-Identified? bah. HP overload.).

[me b zola]

61. Bingo. Libby=Cheney, Hadley=Rice

Rice always seems to slip under the radar of the press---and DU. She is one evil mofo, and she is as guilty as the rest of the cabal (WHIG)

[leesa]

24. It's sort of like playing that old teevee game "What's My Line?"

[Peace Patriot]

20. HALLELUJAH! (--if true). I've smelled Rumsfeld the Lurker behind this...

...all along. He's the one who placed Judith Miller in Iraq, with a special "embed" contract signed by him, to accompany and even direct the U.S troops who were "hunting" for the WMDS they all knew weren't there. Why? Why prime the public for a "find" of WMDs, as they did? Why position Miller for the "scoop"? Were they just sitting around HOPING that Miller would find some WMDs, by chance?

Naw. They were going to PLANT the WMDs in Iraq (for Miller to "find"). Their nasty, deceitful plot got discovered and foiled.

Traitorgate is the coverup.

That's my theory. And Rumsfeld was right smack dab in the middle of it--from commissioning the easily debunkable Niger forgeries (to entice the 'white hat' CIA into public opposition to the war and statements of no nukes in Iraq), all the way to (what was to be the coup de grace of their plot against the honest agents in the CIA) "discovering" nuke components/materials in Iraq--the ones they were going to plant there. (--the reason for Ghorbanifar's presence at the Rome meeting, is my guess.)

It's the only thing that makes sense out of this story--including the hasty, panicky way they outed Plame and Brewster-Jennings; calling at least SIX reporters in one week, seeking a news patsy to immediately out her and then her whole front company and all its agents--and putting so many top Bushites at risk of treason charges to do so quickly. Why the haste? Why all this risk? Why the jumbled, creaky cover stories? I think David Kelly was the real trigger for the Plame outing (not Wilson's article, which was expected). Kelly was the Brits chief WMD expert who started whistleblowing anonymously to the BBC in the last week of May 2003, re: the exaggerated pre-war WMD intel. Somebody outed him to his bosses; he was interrogated in mid-to-late June, about the same time that Libby was divulging Plame's name to Miller. On July 7, Tony Blair was informed that Kelly "could say some uncomfortable things" (COULD say; not HAD said). Blair likely called Bush and warned him. The "uncomfortable things" likely had to do with their intent to plant WMDs in Iraq, and how it was foiled--which Kelly would have been in a good position to discover. (There were two reports, in the Pakistan and Iranian press--in March 2003, about such a foiled plot.)

Plame was outed (by Novak) on July 14. Four days later, Kelly was found dead, under highly suspicious circumstances. His office and computers were searched. Then, four days after his death, on July 22, Plame's entire WMD-non-proliferation project was outed (also by Novak). I think that someone(s) in that BJ network discovered and foiled the Bushites' plot.

My candidate for who outed David Kelly to his bosses: His old friend and colleague, Judith Miller--to whom he wrote his last email, on the day he died, expressing his concern about the "many dark actors playing games." (--an email released by his family, not by Miller.)

Dark actors, indeed.

Rumsfeld. My guess: I don't think there is anyone more hated by the honest military and the honest members of the intelligence community. And, for some reason, I'm thinking of the UCMJ lawyers who had defended that code of ethics and law all their lives--only to find Rumsfeld spitting on it, and ordering torture. Besides torturing and killing people, there is nothing worse you can do to them than depriving them of their hopes and ideals--ripping out their souls.

I was also struck by Murtha's emphasis on how destructive the Iraq war has been on the U.S. military. Rumsfeld is hated for so many things, by so many people.

Too, it was his "Office of Special Plans" that specifically sought to do an end-run around the honest intelligence professionals, and was/is in many ways at war with them.

Yes, he is a broker. A good word for him. Just the sort of broker to set up a nefarious scheme like planting WMDs in Iraq. I think he is diabolically intelligent--and not in the least incompetent. He knows exactly what he is doing, and who he is really working for. Remember what he said about the looters in Baghdad. Freedom = the freedom to loot. That's his philosophy.

I would also like to know where he really was on September 11, 2001, when he had nearly an hour to mount some sort of defense of our nation's capitol, and didn't do so. And why he pulled NORAD decision-making power into his own hands in June 2001, three months before.

He was also the one--DUers will likely recall--shaking Saddam Hussein's hand, back when the U.S. was supplying chem/bio weapons components to Iraq for use against the Iranians.

Cheney may be Darth Vader--but Rumsfeld is Dr. Strangelove--the Bushite who may be the least into greed, per se, and the most into fascist rule, and thus the most dangerous one of them all. His destruction of Iraqi society and government was quite deliberately created chaos, the better to exercise ruthless power over Iraqi citizens. He is the power broker among mega-war profiteers. Cheney's corruption and greed are obvious. But Rumsfeld is the one with delusions of grandeur and serious Nazi proclivities. The bespectacled one. The Lurker. And I hope to God he gets nailed for all that he has done.

[The Witch]

22. you should post this as a separate post.

it's an intriguing theory. :thumbsup:

[leveymg]

27. Rummie has yet to receive the attention he truly deserves.

Let's hope Fitz is really on his case. The OSP-AIPAC and Niger Yellow Cake plots could not have happened without his patronage.

I think you're hitting close to the target. :thumbsup: :hi:

[Old and In the Way]

40. Spot on....your post alone makes this thread worth a kick and nomination.

Rumsfield is most certainly a megalo-maniac. He's far more dangerous than most people realize. A great unified field theory, too. There is no one master plan at work, I think...but a few plans that appear to all intersect in Rumsfield's domain.

[FreedomAngel82]

44. Exactly

And I also believe that Miller was somehow involved in Kelly's death. Perhaps she was spying on him and she told the people who killed him the perfect timing and all that. She is deeply in bed with these people. I also believe Rumsfeld is probably more involved than we all know. Remember that Bush has all these people in there for a purpose and each one has a specific role to play for their PNAC agenda.

[batmansmom]

59. HALLELUJAH

Peace Patriot, you have put all the pieces together. Thank you for validating my sanity.

[Caution]

23. Never Mind

n/t

[computerfreak77]

25. Times Of London: Stephen Hadley Was The Source

THE mysterious source who gave America’s foremost journalist, Bob Woodward, a tip-off about the CIA agent at the centre of one of Washington’s biggest political storms was Stephen Hadley, the White House national security adviser, according to lawyers close to the investigation.
link
>

[computerfreak77]

57. Newsweek speculates source is Richard Armitage

"He is an old source and friend of Woodward's, and he fits Novak's description of his source as "not a partisan gunslinger." Woodward has indicated that he knows the identity of Novak's source, which further suggests his source and Novak's were one and the same."
link

[Rose Siding]

26. The WP says Woodward's source *has* testified earlier in the case

snip>
Woodward, who was questioned by Fitzgerald on Monday, has refused to reveal the source's name publicly, but a person familiar with the investigation said the source had testified earlier in the case. The source came forward to the prosecutor again after Woodward started asking questions for an article on the CIA leak late last month and reminded the person of their 2003 conversation, Woodward said yesterday. That raises the possibility that the source faces legal problems if he or she provided false or incomplete information during previous testimony, according to legal experts.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/11/18/AR2005111800958_pf.html


Jane, at Fire Dog Lake noted the contradiction in reports. We know of a couple of people who have been formally questioned, though not under oath and not before the GJ. Bush and Cheney.

Filing under Speculation-Just-For-Fun. So far.

[leveymg]

28. Interesting - Reuters and WP/London Times disagree on that point

There must be two opposing sources for these reports out there. This is utterly fascinating stuff for a politics and legal affairs junkie, like me.

There'll be a dozen great books that come out of this -- I'm not including Woodward's in that.

[Rose Siding]

30. Or the Reuters reporter could have erred in adding "before the GJ"

when the source simply said something about giving Fitz a statement.

The WP did correct their earlier, maddening point about whether or not the pros said that Libby was the first (at the head of the same link) -though they still omit "first known":

Correction to This Article
An earlier version of this story incorrectly stated that I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby had been identified in the special counsel's indictment as the first Bush administration official to disclose the identify of a CIA operative to a journalist. The special counsel described Libby's role at a news conference.

[onehandle]

29. That would suck.

Rummy has had one foot out the door for years. He's supposedly tried to resign.

This road must lead to Cheney. The true President must be revealed and prosecuted.

[computerfreak77]

31. Whoever it was, is bigger than Libby

and the neocons are scared. This is a chain reaction that will stop God knows where.

[NEOBuckeye]

37. Not really. Rumsfeld has gone far too long without scrutiny. He's overdue.

I agree with you, though. I'd love to see Cheney squirm. But he and Rummy are longtime best friends. This will hit even closer to home for him than Libby's indictment.

And who knows where the road turns next?

[FreedomAngel82]

46. Oh yes

Didn't they work together with Nixon? And wasn't Rumsfeld like a mentor to Cheney?

[Old and In the Way]

41. I think his public offerings of resignation are all for show.

Rumsfield-Bush-Cheney are all in this together. They will be the last men standing in this disaster.

[FreedomAngel82]

47. Exactly

If he was really serious about that he would just quit.

[Bumblebee]

32. and Isikoff suggests it was Armitage

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10117465/site/newsweek/

[dave29]

34. If Rumsfeld was Woodwards Source

Chances are high he got the info from Chalabi, his favorite source for "intelligence". It might also explain why Rumsfeld thought there was nothing sensitive about her employment-- if Chalabi passed the information along without fulling understanding what it meant. Chalabi, who had a vested interest in making sure Joseph Wilson's assertions were contained, may have been able to gather that Wilsons wife worked at the CIA, but not that she was covert.

Rumsfeld, who never double checks anything, especially from Chalabi, set himself up very nicely by not understanding the "facts on the ground" - for if Chalabi is HIS source, we now have a foreign national in the mix, which if I am not mistaken, could potentially make anyone who acted on Chalabi's information guilty of treason, or at the very least criminal negligence.

[Bumblebee]

36. Not him, according to him

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/national/AP-CIA-Leak-Rumsfeld.html

[mrfocus]

35. IS FITZMAS A WEEKLY HOLIDAY NOW?

Seems like it...and it WARMS MY HEART!!!

[FreedomAngel82]

42. This is getting so good

:popcorn:

[Festivito]

45. Woodward keeping us uncertain. VERY ROVIAN.

Certain it's Hadley, certain it's Rumsfeld.

Good reasons on each.

Only players? Or, are there many DARK ACTORS, still behind the scenes, maybe not even in government employ.

We're living a novel, with no certainty of an ending in a pre-purchased number of pages.

[MellowOne]

48. And yet more good news n/t

[Rainscents]

49. Never Ending...

:popcorn:

[dennisnyc]

50. no surprises here. Keep pushing your congresspeople to join with Nadler

on his call to EXPAND Fitzgerald's mandate...

http://www.house.gov/apps/list/press/ny08_nadler/FitzgeraldwarMemo102005.html

October 20, 2005
Nadler: Fitzgerald Must Broaden Investigation

“Did the Bush Administration deliberately mislead Congress about the war?

WASHINGTON, D.C. – In light of recent developments in the CIA leak investigation and other recent revelations, Congressman Jerrold Nadler today called for Special Counsel Patrick Fitzgerald to expand his investigation to include a criminal investigation to examine whether the President, the Vice President, and members of the White House Iraq Group conspired to deliberately deceive Congress into authorizing the war in Iraq. 

[KnowerOfLogic]

53. He denied it on This Week. nt

[robertpaulsen]

54. Excellent! Glad to see media reporting what DU knew in summer of 2004.

Read my signature for the whole story.

[cassiepriam]

55. The whole d*mn bunch were talking about Plame to the press.

What lousy SOB's. All of them.

[Patrick J Fitzgerald]

56. Me 4 President?

Sweet Old Boys...

After 6 years in power the Grand Old Party is just getting sloppy with their criminal acts. I am all over it, rest assurred.

BTW, I am thinking of running for office in '08. Come check me out.

http://patrickjfitzgerald.blogspot.com

[MN ChimpH8R]

60. The longer this goes on, the more

I am reminded of an old Bugs Bunny cartoon. Yosemite Sam tries to get Bugs out from under his house and keeps jamming high explosives into a hole in the floor, thinking that they're going into Bugs' rabbit hole. To the contrary, Bugs is nonchalantly setting the TNT under Sam's house, just waiting for Sam to light the fuse. When Sam finally does light the fuse, he and his house are blown to the moon and Bugs is left unharmed.

Think of Fitz as Bugs and Chimpco as Yosemite Sam in this scenario. Except Fitz is both placing the explosives and has the match. Just waiting for the BOOM after Fitz lights the fuse. :popcorn:

[Independent_Liberal]

62. Indict Rummy!

Yay!

:)

[Ganja Ninja]

63. Jimmney Fitzmas!

:sarcasm:

[demo dutch]

64. It's getting better each day!!!