Should machine guns be legal? Judge Machine Gun Sammy Alito thinks so

[billbuckhead]

SAMUEL "MACHINE GUN SAMMY" ALITO

is WANTED for:

-Voting to strike down the 1986 federal machine gun ban. In the 1996 case U.S. v. Rybar, Judge Alito was the lone dissenter in the decision upholding the conviction of a gun dealer who sold illegal machine guns at a Pennsylvania gun show.

-Possession of an unusual and extremely restrictive view of Congressional regulatory power. Alito (also called "Scalito" by his associates because of his similarity to conservative Judge Antonin Scalia) is known to possess views that could imperil virtually every federal law that regulates firearms, ammunitions, and explosives.

-Known consortion with practically criminal organizations, including the NRA. The NRA's opinions almost completely mirror Alito's own, as they also worked to destroy the 1986 federal machine gun ban, and made plans to "actively work toward the repeal of the recent machine gun ban and will take all necessary steps to educate the public on the sporting uses and legal ownership of automatic firearms." Their efforts in that case failed.

<http://www.machinegunsammy.com/>

[Somawas]

1. But what the heck

I favor private ownership of fully armed nuclear warheads and Virginia class submarines. After all, the Second Amendment was written by a bunch of pissed off guys who had just fought a revolution against the biggest, baddest most heavily armed empire on earth.

Nukes give the right to revolution some teeth.

[philarq]

2. There was a Russian Submarine for sale on e-bay a while back...

E-Bay says you cant sell guns, people, Nazi collectables--nope nada no-way

But a 2000 ton Russian Submarine--sure no problem
http://citypaper.net/articles/033000/sl.howcol.shtml

So what is a machine gun---well not much more than any other rifle with a specific bolt and sear mechanism. You can buy books showing (for reference only) how to convert many types of rifles to automatic fire.

It should be remembered that a gun is just an inert piece of metal, It takes human thought for it to become a killing machine. This is exactly what cars, lead pipes, ropes and pistols are. Without someone actually making the decision to use it as a weapon, they usually just sit there doing --well ---nothing.

[Somawas]

3. Besides, think of it this way-

if you got a nuclear sub fully armed with, like 24 warheads, and can't pick up girls, then you absolutely cannot pick up girls. Dynamite conversation starter.

[billbuckhead]

4. Guns are bad guys 1st, 2nd and 3rd choice

Guns are the leading murder weapon in USA but not many other countries. The difference is availabilty.

[Swamp Rat]

5. Fuckin' A! I want a machine gun to kill bunny rabbits and kittens!

Let's go fishing with dynamite too! :woohoo: BOOM!

[Ariana Celeste]

6. .

We are civilians, and yes we have some citizens who shoot people, but we have the right to bear arms for a reason. If somebody is intent on killing someone, they are going to kill someone whether they have firearms or not. Once upon a time guns didn't exist, but murder and war sure did. But back to the right to bear arms. If it ever comes time we need a revolution, as it stands, I sure don't like our chances.

I do agree with many restrictions that we have. For example... Children sure shouldn't have guns. Convicted murderers shouldn't have guns. Etc.

I was raised with many guns in my household. From a young age, I was educated about firearms. So were my brothers. My dad kept them locked up, but he didn't hide them from us, guns weren't some mysterious cool thing dad had in his drawer. They were something to be equally feared and respected. As young children we were taught about firearms. When we got older, we were taught how to properly handle firearms. My brothers went through classes. And the same should be done in every household with guns. Keep them locked up, but educate your children. The less they know, the more they will want to know, perhaps while you aren't around to teach them. Mistakes in households, for the most part, can be prevented.

I don't have a gun in my household, and I don't ever want one. But I am very thankful that I know how to handle them, how to shoot, how to load them. Who knows what the future could bring us.

[Spider Jerusalem]

7. Red herring.

The 1986 Firearms Owners' Protection Act aside, the National Firearms Act of 1934 makes civilian possession of machine guns and sub-machine guns illegal. And the 1986 act only applies to weapons manufactured after 19 May 1986. And even for those weapons manufactured prior to that date, the guidelines for civilian registration of fully automatic weapojns are quite stringent and involve payment of a hefty tax.

Are you capable of discussing the issue of firearms at ALL without resorting to intellectual dishonesty and subtle shadings of truth? One begins to suspect not.

[billbuckhead]

8. I pointed out Judge Scalito wants machine guns legal

How is that being dishonest? Sounds more like projection.

[Spider Jerusalem]

9. cf. 1934 Nat'l Firearms Act & 1986 law cited above. (n/t)

[-..__...]

10. Another guilt by association poll thread?

If a person believes that machine guns should be legal = then they're in the same league as Samuel Alito.

One important omission that the VPC link fails to mention, is that the decision was not made WRT nor did it mention anything pertaining to the 2nd amendment or RKBA.

In fact Alitos view of the matter had to do with the "commerce clause"
of the Constitution.

http://www.bradycampaign.org/press/release.php?release=708

In addition to being the dissenting view in the Third Circuit, Judge Alito’s conclusion that the machine gun ban violates the Commerce Clause is so far out of the mainstream of Constitutional jurisprudence that it has been rejected by every other federal appellate court that has considered the issue, including the Second, Fifth, Sixth, Seventh, Eighth, Ninth, Tenth and Eleventh Circuits. The Supreme Court has been asked to review lower court decisions on this issue six times and has declined in each case.

In a tellingly ominous note of the future impact of Judge Alito’s limited view of Congressional power, he argued that his view could mean that Congress may have no power to regulate “the simple possession of a firearm,” as this “is not ‘economic’ or ‘commercial’ activity….” Id. at 292. The courts have never adopted such a view that could broadly limit the ability of Congress to control illegal gun possession. If Alito’s way became the law, it could place other federal restrictions on gun possession in jeopardy, such as the ban on the possession of firearms that are undetectable by metal detectors or the ban on possession of handguns by juveniles. See 18 U.S.C. § 922(p) (prohibiting possession of undetectable firearms manufactured after the date of enactment in 1988); 922(x) (generally prohibiting possession of handguns by juveniles).

Apparently the 9th Circuit Court supports legal ownership of full-auto firearms also, but with one noticible difference: the 9th says that it's okay for a person to manufactuer their own machineguns as long as none of the parts were/are involved in interstae commerce.

http://www.gunweek.com/2003/ninth1201.html

9th Circuit Court Issues Ruling in Machinegun Case

A three-judge panel of the 9th US Circuit Court of Appeals in San Francisco has overturned the federal conviction of a Mesa, AZ, man for possession five unregistered machineguns.

The Nov. 13 ruling said that the congressional ban does not apply to homemade machineguns and their parts because they were never in the stream of commerce, according to Associated Press.

The court ruled that there was neither a transfer nor sale of the firearms or their parts, so Congress did not have the power under the Commerce Clause to regulate homemade guns crafted from scratch.

The man, Robert Stewart, was sentenced to five years imprisonment for being a felon in possession of firearms and of possessing illegal machineguns in 2002.

His attorney, Thomas Haney of Phoenix, said the decision doesn’t mean much for his client or for the gun movement. Few people have the skills to build a firearm from scratch, as Stewart did, Haney said.

Haney said most states, including Arizona, also have state bans against machineguns that would withstand judicial scrutiny regardless of whether the gun was homemade. “It might not be viable for anyone to think they can start making their own,” Haney said.