Why do Soldiers need us to proove anything to them?

[patrice]

People say you can criticize the war because it is bad for the Soldiers. I don't understand. Soldiers do what they do because of Orders, everything else about what they do is ir-relevant, so why do they need my psychological support (physical support is another matter). It also doesn't seem very adult to me. *Sneak and Speck are Infantalizing ALL of us.

[brmdp3123]

1. You should talk to one of them...

they'll tell you how they feel.

[Horse with no Name]

2. I agree

It's like those abused women who stay in abusive relationships "for the kids".
It's never about the kids, because if you asked the kids, the kids advice would be for her to get the hell out of there.

[lazarus]

3. well

They don't, really.

I can kind of understand the point. If the soldiers start to doubt what they're doing is right, their effectiveness could be diminished, etc. But to be honest, I think they're all learning a far more powerful lesson in the futility and brutality of this war than anything we're doing here could surpass.

Soldiers don't do what they do because of orders, btw. Oh, the specifics are due to orders, i.e. "go here" "shoot there" "stand at attention."

But soldiers fight for different reasons. Some because they enjoy it. Some because they're afraid to look like cowards in front of their fellow troops. Some due to esprit de corps, the near-cliched "band of brothers" concept.

And some honestly believe they're doing the right thing, because they've been lied to and brainwashed since before they enlisted, most likely.

But it's not just orders. Especially as you go higher up the chain. For example, if Bush just called the guy with the football, then called the commander at NORAD and said he felt like nuking Albania, the nukes would not fly. Generals have some say in what happens. Not a lot, but some. And they're not going to start a nuclear war just because of one man's whim.

That's one reason Rummie spent the last 5 years purging the Pentagon. Very few generals are left who are not part of the Rummie/Cheney clique, which is very, very scary. I don't know how many generals are left who would say to Rumsfeld, "No, I don't think using willie pete on civilians is a good idea at all." I think they're all afraid, having seen what these bastards will do to your career if they don't like you.

[patrice]

4. That's right. It must be very confusing to be under orders AND in the

chaos of war, where you have to decide so much life and death stuff on your own, often in a few seconds.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

5. The military people I know,

some of whom have been in Iraq, some who served in Desert Storm I, all say it's a colossal waste, that the people don't want us there, that the country's gone to hell, that it's dangerous as hell, and the Iraqis who are being trained to be Iraq's army are cowards who take off as soon as we turn our backs.

They're being fed amphetamines routinely in order to keep them hopped up - imagine those poor young kids, already overloaded with fear and hormones, speeding - and they're nothing but helpless cogs in the Fuckface War Machine.

As I've said, I don't support the military. I don't support anything that's involved with this obscenity.

[pocket]

6. Orders, money, and the thrill of brutality

plus, if oldleftylawyer is right about the amphetamines, then to get their fix.