Anyone who thinks WP is not harmful READ THIS.

[LeftHander]

the right wingnuts and paint chip eating Republicans will be trying to tell America that WP is not dangerous....and is only an irratant. That is a COMPLETE LIE.

When WP is burst in a munition it rapidly oxidizes into Phosphorus Pentoxide this reacts sontaneously with water vapor to release massive amounts of heat and phosphoic acid "smoke".

Think of an urban area in a dry climate that has a massive bombardment of WP bombs. Does anyone know the conentration of Phospohorus Pentoxide that would be ingested by a person contained within the bombardment area...no they don't. Phospohorus Pentoxide is not stable long enough to measure it. But if you inhale massive amounts of it, or get it coated on your skin...a dusting of particles what do think would happen. YOu would burn like match from inside and out as the Phosphorus Pentoxide reacts with the moisture on your skin and body.

Google Images "White phosphorus" and you can see.


Make no mistake the way WP was used in Fallujah is a Chemical Weapon and Violates the CWC 1997 Protocol.


From a MSDS..(Material Safety Data SHeet)

Phosphorus Pentoxide

Toxicology

Toxic if inhaled. Harmful if swallowed or absorbed through the skin. Very destructive of mucous membranes. Eye contact may lead to serious permanent eye damage. Corrosive - causes burns.


Potential Health Effects
----------------------------------

Phosphorus pentoxide reacts with moisture on body tissue surfaces to form phosphoric acid, which approximates sulfuric acid and hydrochloric acids in corrosive intensity.

Inhalation:

Inhalation produces damaging effects on the mucous membranes and upper respiratory tract. Symptoms may include irritation of the nose and throat, and labored breathing. May cause lung edema, a medical emergency.

Ingestion:

Corrosive. Releases heat on contact with moisture and will burn mucous surfaces. Sore throat, abdominal pain, nausea, vomiting, and diarrhea may result. Brown or yellow stains will ne found around the mouth. Suffocation may occur from swelling of the tongue. Aspiratiuon into the lungs can cause chemical pneumonitis. Ingestion of this material has caused human fatalities.

Skin Contact:

Corrosive. Contact can cause severe irritation, burns, redness, and pain. Burns usually penetrate the skin with sharply defined edges, and heal slowly with the formation of scar tissue.

Eye Contact:

Corrosive. Fumes and airborne powder cause eye irritation. Contact with substance can cause severe eye burns and permanent damage.

Chronic Exposure:

Chronic ingestion or inhalation may induce systemic phosphorous poisoning. Liver damage, kidney damage, jaw/tooth abnormalities, blood disorders and cardiovascular effects can result.

Aggravation of Pre-existing Conditions:

Persons with pre-existing skin disorders or eye problems, jaw/tooth abnormalities, or impaired liver, kidney or respiratory function may be more susceptible to the effects of the substance.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

1. I'm no chemist, but

if it says it's any kind of "phosphorus," I remember enough high school chemistry to know that it's a CHEMICAL WEAPON.

Jesus. How stupid do they think we are?

Bastards.

I particularly liked the quote about the guys doing this calling their work "Shake'n'Bake" missions. I bet they have funny names for those planes flying into the WTC, too.

Speed-riddled assholes.

[lonestarnot]

12. Ewww and I'm no chemist, but I sure as hell know what sulfuric

acid can do for you, as I have been burned in the past. Nasty stuff!

[GreenPartyVoter]

2. I thought this post was gonna be about the Washing Post..... But yes

the white phosphorous is hideous and we shouldn't be using it, except that we have a bunch of "All's fair in love and war" people running this country right now and they just do not care who gets trampled in their run for power.

[MADem]

4. So did I!! I was waiting for a dissertation on their retention of

Woodward!!!

[GreenPartyVoter]

5. Glad I am not the only one who thought that! :^P BTW, how is

your PEI research going? :)

[MADem]

9. It's on hold for now--we've had a few family crises, but I have not given

up on the dream!!! I had wanted to be up there NOW, househunting, but life got in the way (like it so often does!).

Now, I am shooting for FEB (lousy weather is the best time to look at houses, IMO!!!). We'll have to see how things shake out--I still spend time looking at places over the net, and one that I really like has not sold yet (they are asking too much, I think).

[GreenPartyVoter]

10. Life has a wonderful way of doing that. Will you be taking pics of

houses when you're up there?

[MADem]

11. I tend to make decisions in a hurry, once I get off my behind and get

going. It would not surprise me if I househunt like hell for three days, and buy on the 4th or 5th! I just hope life doesn't sock us in the kisser any more--we're due for a break!

[rosesaylavee]

3. MSDS info says it all.

Kicked and recommended.

[ProfessorGAC]

6. P2O5?

That's what white phosphorous is? I've used that in the lab and in development work in the distant past. It doesn't burst into flames! Absolutely, positively not! I thought the WP was being used as an incindiery!

It's nasty, and very reactive though. And phosphoric acid is not as pernicious as hydrochloric or sulfuric. The pKa of the first hydrogen is pretty high, but is an order of magnitude weaker than sulfuric in terms of ionic strength or potential of hydrogen ion dissociation.

Excessive phosphate levels can be hard on the liver, but in general inorganic phosphates tend to be not terribly dangerous to human health and safety.

I thought this was the carbide version of phosphorous which reacts with air to form CO2 and elemental phosphorous. Which then reacts with water to become P2O5. It's MUCH more reactive and far more dangerous.
The Professor

[MrMonk]

14. White phosphorous is an allotrope of elemental phosphorous

As it says in the OP, it oxidizes to P2O5, which hydrolyzes to phosphoric acid. Although phosphoric acid is less acidic than sulfuric or HCl, its still a potent oxidizer at high concentrations. I would think that it would be very highly concentrated when formed from moisture in the air or in flesh.

[geek tragedy]

7. Has anyone said it's not harmful?

I mean, it's used as a weapon and an incendiary device. It's like saying fragmentation grenades aren't harmful.

[LeftHander]

15. guy from globalsecurity.org did on NPR on ATC...

All Things Considered.

He said WP smoke was an irratant. Mentioned nothing of Phosphorus Pentoxide.

He also said it was not a chemical weapon.

[NNN0LHI]

8. WP, NYT, and Newsmax are one in the same unfortunately

It is good we have found out though.

Don

[OldLeftieLawyer]

13. Uh, not that WP

The OP is about white phosphorus, not the Washington Post.

You MUST read the comments before you post. I, too, learned the hard way.

;)

[Igel]

16. We're making fairly strong assumptions that don't necessary

match the facts. Keep in mind that the data sheet doesn't necessarily only presuppose widespread aerial dispersal. It's looking at people dealing with the stuff in containers in a chemical plant or on a lab bench.

First, the primary problem in an enclosed area isn't going to be the phosphorus (V) oxide. It's going to be the fire. WP burns hot, and the delivery system will likely spread fragments of WP.

Second, keep in mind the prescribed, standard uses for WP. Illumination, meaning that troops will be exposed to the phosphorus (V) oxide, or as a smoke screen that troops may have to enter. Under those uses, the concentration of phosphorus (V) oxide ranks as an irritant, primarily to the mucosa. That's been tested, the likely concentrations known, and the first aid simple.

Third, remember the description: skin melted/burned, clothes intact. In a confined area where the phosphorus (V) oxide concentration would be high enough to be really dangerous, expect the clothing to be burned, at least in part, from the fragmented WP. But this is contrary to reports. It also calls into question whether the army would likely try to use a side effect, easily mitigated, instead of relying on the quite impressive primary effect: but that is precisely what's needed for your assertion, the primacy of the side effects.

Moreover, if the area has a high enough concentration of phosphorus (V) oxide to be truly dangerous, we can make some fairly good assumptions. It'll probably be confined, and likely the men will be sweating. Their clothes will be damp. And any liquid on their skin will be wicked into their clothing. We should expect, as the moisture in the clothing dries (and under those conditions it's constantly being replenished) the phosphoric acid will be most concentrated there. The clothing should incur damage. If we take the other tack and say that the men weren't sweating, it means we'd have only traces of phosphoric acide on their skin. Both scenarios are contrary to the eye-witness accounts. And, of course, the quick and easy way of dealing with the irritation is to leave the area.

Phosphorus, from any source, is toxic. But it's really the chronic exposure that gets you; large single doses can be dangerous. Remember that phosphorus poisoning was actually fairly common for a few decades, I think in the late 1800s.