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JohnyCanuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-17-05 02:22 PM
Original message
Riverbend post on white phosphorous and Falluja

Few Iraqis ever doubted the American use of chemical weapons in Falloojeh. We’ve been hearing the terrifying stories of people burnt to the bone for well over a year now. I just didn’t want it confirmed.

I didn’t want it confirmed because confirming the atrocities that occurred in Falloojeh means verifying how really lost we are as Iraqis under American occupation and how incredibly useless the world is in general- the UN, Kofi Annan, humanitarian organizations, clerics, the Pope, journalists… you name it- we’ve lost faith in it.

I finally worked up enough courage to watch it and it has lived up to my worst fears. Watching it was almost an invasive experience, because I felt like someone had crawled into my mind and brought my nightmares to life. Image after image of men, women and children so burnt and scarred that the only way you could tell the males apart from the females, and the children apart from the adults, was by the clothes they are wearing… the clothes which were eerily intact- like each corpse had been burnt to the bone, and then dressed up lovingly in their everyday attire- the polka dot nightgown with a lace collar… the baby girl in her cotton pajamas- little earrings dangling from little ears.

<snip>

Last year I blogged about Falloojeh and said:

“There is talk of the use of cluster bombs and other forbidden weaponry.”

I was immediately attacked with a barrage of emails from Americans telling me I was a liar and that there was no proof and that there was no way Americans would ever do something so appalling! I wonder how those same people justify this now. Are they shocked? Or do they tell themselves that Iraqis aren’t people? Or are they simply in denial?


http://riverbendblog.blogspot.com/

20 years ago if you had told me that there would come a time when I would have as much contempt and disgust for the actions of US military forces as at the actions of Hitler's WWII Wehrmact I would have found it very hard to believe. Not any more.
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-17-05 02:25 PM
Response to Original message
1. I agree with you JC
and I share your disgust and contempt. :(
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lostexpectation Donating Member (312 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-17-05 02:27 PM
Response to Original message
2. Clothes intact?
So is it White Phosperus that burns skin but not clothes? or is it something else?
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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-17-05 02:51 PM
Response to Reply #2
8. Or are they burning into their skin?
:shrug:
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phusion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-17-05 02:56 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. I think
the phosphurus burns quickly and hot enough to melt skin but not to ignite clothing.

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phusion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-17-05 02:37 PM
Response to Original message
3. I have yet to watch that film...
But I'm downloading it now. It might take me a couple of days to muster the courage.

:(
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phusion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-17-05 02:42 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. I just searched the web for instances of that video
I wanted to see how widely this video has been distributed...Google turned up about 400 hits on that URL.

I found this reply to the video on some forum:

"Interesting video...wish the reporter was there the two weeks before fallujia happend....would love to hear why they stayed in a city the entire world knew was gonna get wacked...They said leave or die...pretty plain to me, why would any normal person stay?....Just more dummies gone from the gene pool "

Are people really this divorced from their humanity? I can't believe some of the shit I read sometimes...:(
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GreenPartyVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-17-05 04:40 PM
Response to Reply #6
15. Well, people love to hand out Darwin awards..makes
us feel smug to be smarter than the other guy, y'know?
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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-17-05 02:51 PM
Response to Reply #3
9. I have it but haven't seen it yet
I can't. I have a very weak stomach. :(
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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-17-05 02:40 PM
Response to Original message
4. shit i remember her posting that!
check this site and his list of bloggers . i check this site every other day...
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bullimiami Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-17-05 02:41 PM
Response to Original message
5. So. Support the Troops? these same troops that are torturing people,
filming and apparently reveling in sexually depraved acts and commiting horrible atrocities?

this is why the vietnam soldiers paid such a price in society. because the diseased monsters among them were never prosecuted and justice was never served and the whole group was held responsible for the crimes of some.

im sure there are plenty of decent soldiers, probably a large majority of them, but they are all going to end up suffering for the horrors some of them wrought.
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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-17-05 02:50 PM
Response to Original message
7. Liberating them my ass
How can you be free if you're dead?
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RedEarth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-17-05 02:52 PM
Response to Original message
10. Well, we sure are winning the hearts and minds of the Iraqi citizens...
keep up the good work george.....monster
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EVDebs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-17-05 04:21 PM
Response to Original message
12. Rightwing article said that after the Blackwater guys BBQ
Edited on Thu Nov-17-05 04:28 PM by EVDebs
the military decided to 'take off the gloves' in Fallujah. The message seems to be if you commit atrocities to instill fear on our troops, expect similar acts....

Reciprocity, a.k.a. turnabout is fair play, and lest we forget, 'war is hell'. That said, who was the MORON who turned the dogs of war loose in the first place ? That said, look what a rightwing website says about the incidents and Fallujah :

"...The Fallujah Marine operation is under the command of Guy's old commander, Maj. Gen. James Mattis, now the 1st Marine Division commander, who, Guy said, "is the best of the best." The Washington Times reported that his forces were "still were fighting insurgents that included Syrian mercenaries along a one-mile front." And General Mattis understands what works on Syrian mercenaries.

Writing from the Saudi Desert in 1990 on Thanksgiving Day, 3 months before his battalion moved across the border to drive out Saddam's army in Kuwait, Guy wrote, "I m really getting to dislike the Middle East. The Arabs are really an incredibly brutal people. There's talk about the 'friendly' Arabs turning against us if Israel is involved in this conflict. It's pretty hard to accept the idea of American giving their lives to protect an ally so untrustworthy that we have to seriously be concerned that they would turn on us. After this is over, I wonder if Kuwait and Saudi Arabia will return to the unethical practice of price fixing oil through OPEC. That would be ironic, after we save their countries they return the favor by gouging us with the price of oil."

And, of course, that's exactly what they did. Guy went on to say, "Just think of how many despots there are in this region. Saddam Hussein is not the only one who is the moral equivalent of Hitler. There's President Assad of Syria, Rafsanjani of Iran, Yasser Arafat of the PLO, Qaddafi of Libya."

Guy also told of a massacre of Syrian civilians by Assad, the father of the current Syrian despot. A reporter asked Assad if it was true that "6000-7000 civilians were killed by your government's troops." Assad quickly and proudly corrected the reporter by saying it was not a mere 6000-7000 who died but 38,000 who died for defying him. The point Guy made was that the culture of the Arab people admires power — and force, even when they are the ones getting killed."

and futher on it says...

"Al-Jezeera's reports which I try to follow clearly bear out Guy's observation. While the American media generally did not print the horrible pictures taken by Al-Jezeera's reporters of the slaughter, mutilation and hanging of the charred bodies of the four American contractors, they were proudly and prominently and repeatedly shown to the Arab public by Al Jezeera. The April 1st Al-Jezeera report, which showed the charred bodies of the American's, was titled "Grisly Falluja pictures shock US viewers."

It gave a complete report to its readers on how successful the same tactic was during the Clinton Administration. Al Jezeera stated, "The gruesome pictures of the charred, mutilated bodies of four Americans killed in an ambush in Iraq, reminded viewers of the grisly scene surrounding the deaths of US servicemen in Somalia a decade ago." The report ended with, "Pictures of a dead American serviceman being dragged through the street aired constantly on US television, and led to the eventual evacuation of US forces from Somalia."

A few days later the smug Al Jezeera reporters inside Fallujah were shaking with fear and dodging bullets from a determined US Marine operation while whining about the Arab world not "intervening" to make those pesky Marines go away. Instead, they are faced with a knowledgeable and determined American president who responded to the grisly Fallujah attack with:

"We were tested in Fallujah. And the desire for those who do not want there to be a free and democratic Iraq is to shake our will through acts of violence and terror. It's not only our will, it's the will of other coalition forces and it's the will of the Iraqi people. As you know, that many Iraqis have been targeted. As a matter of fact, the al Qaeda affiliate Zarqawi made it clear that part of the strategy was to turn Shia on Sunni by killing innocent Iraqis."


taken from

"Bush won't run from Al Jezeera's "grisly pictures" or John Kerry's attacks"
http://www.renewamerica.us/columns/mostert/040407

Was this all about 'playing to the media' ? Did Al Jezeera show pics of the Willie Peter and napalmed victims just as the media showed the charred Blackwater guys ?

This is all about, as Thomas Friedman said, "Hama rules" in his book From Beirut to Jerusalem
www.mafhoum.com/press2/63P58.htm

Finally, was there an evacuation of Fallujah prior to the US 'going in ?' If so, would someone on DU do more research on it and why it failed or succeeded ? This incident was about POWER and MACHO, on both sides. Everyone lost.

All to impress Syrian mercenaries ? Is this an untold story OR WHAT ?

Maybe that's why I read on DU on another post that Bush is threatening aerial attacks inside Syria...All to impress the Arab world ? While losing respect in the non-Arab world. I see.

The world isn't getting a full picture of this mess. The Middle East is truly Satan's playground. Do you think Fallujah pics will make it to US newspaper front pages...?
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Cults4Bush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-17-05 04:23 PM
Response to Original message
13. To the faithless Riverbend. To the lost, and to the trauma'd...
Very much one to you as well.

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Javaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-17-05 04:29 PM
Response to Original message
14. Faloosjah and New Orleans have a common thread...
Riverbend was talking about the civilians that couldn't leave Faloosjah because, basically they had no means to leave or they didn't have a place to go. I recall the military saying that only "rebels" were left in the city and there won't be any civilian deaths. Then they said something that was completely insane, something along the lines of, "if there are people there, then they are staying because they support the rebels or they are actually fighters and not civilians". The logic escapes me.

Fast forward to New Orleans. Several TV pundits, gov't officials and repuke ditto heads, were spouting on and on, "those people knew the hurricane was coming, they just chose not to leave...". Sound familiar?

Poor is poor is poor. Whether they live in Faloosjah or New Orleans, moron* couldn't give a fuck about them. the man* is a pig.

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phusion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-17-05 05:25 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. See post #6
This seems to be common "logic."

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