Moronic post that made me puke. Taken from another forum

[Pryderi]

As of late, have you noticed the new front the Dems have taken. Let me just lay out the setting here. It's now the end of 2005. Next year are the midterm elections. In all truth, it could be considered the most important election we have on the Federal level, even above the presidency. O.k....end of 2005, elections.

Now everyone, can you say, "Time for politics". Now, normally this isn't a bad thing because an election is about politics. But, in this case, politics are being used to subvert the efforts of the Iraqi people, the military servicemen, and the entire democratic process that Iraq has successfully begun. Now, don't get me wrong. I fully understand that liberals hate conservatives and conservatives hate liberals, but what we're getting into is something very very ugly. Our parties, jointly, whether for the war or against it, are going to damage our country and it's stength by denying our troops the public and international support they deserve. I'm a republican, we all know this. But here are some steps for both the republicans and the democrats to start becoming better parties that serve the people, rather than serving their own appetite for discontinuity.

First, I'll start with the republicans

1. Being republican, actually and forcefully control spending.
2. Understand that values are perspective. (Very hard for me to say)
3. Openly offer complete open dialogue with the centrist democrats
4. Be more open to media. (The more controlled you are towards the media, the more the media starts making you out to be a liar.) Althought the media has it's problems too!


Now the Dems

1. Openly show respect for the presidency. (Vise versa if Dems have office)
2. Admit that the war in Iraq has potential to be a great catalyst to change in the reason for good.
3. Stop alluding to Bush being a liar. If you believe he is, say it outright.
4. Openly offer complete dialogue with the centrist republicans
5. Stop playing partician politics with issues that weaken our country. Debate is fine, but don't say you "didn't", when you "did" when it was politically viable. (aka poll data)
6. Publically denounce left wing ideals.


Notice that the 6th option for dems isn't included with Republicans. It is for this reason. Left wing ideals typically are ideas that are there to cause massive change very quickly. Republican right wing ideals are based almost completely, on traditional long lasting cultural values. These values perhaps do need to change as a population becomes more diverse. But, to forcefully and hastily create change without periods of adjustment often create the divisions you see today. Republicans/conservatives believe in traditional values and do change, but expect that change to occur according to the majority. Because conservatives values are centrally inbedded in protestant christian beliefs, the conservatives are a majority in this fashion.

This is a statement that I'm trying to make to say that neither the republicans nor the democrats have it figured out. This is also a declaration that if a democrat is in the White House next term, that president will be my president. I, as a conservative, will support that president. (except Hillary)

We like to bitch and moan about each other. But if we don't start acting like adults in this nation and finding ways to solve our problems, we're going to be in trouble. It's my hope that during the midterms coming up that politics aren't played over the graves of dead soldiers.

*edit* Title changed so you wouldn't think this was my position

[wtmusic]

1. I'm an adult, and I would never support that position

The war in Iraq has great potential for destroying our nation, Bush is a liar, and I publicly support left wing ideals.

Get used to it. :eyes:

onedit: just realized it wasn't you...sorry

[FreedomAngel82]

24. Exactly

And yes about the republicans. They have far rightwing fundies but they don't get told to shut up so I'm not either and if people don't like it than too bad. They can deal with it! And Iraq was never a good idea and doomed from the beginning.

[mmonk]

2. The elements of the brainwashing are definitely there

[Pryderi]

3. That's what I thought. A seemingly reasonable position based on a

foundation of lies.

[mmonk]

17. Yep

Once they start from a false premise, they don't realize that what sounds reasonable and fair to them is taken from a false reality.

[tjwash]

4. Fuck them, they broke it they fix it.

Bastards. They are like a bunch of little kids sometimes.

[mattclearing]

5. Calling people liar is bad politics.

You point out the contradictions and let people make up their own mind.

Although I like the quote kentuck mentioned this morning about, "As soon as Republicans stop lying about Democrats, Democrats will stop telling the truth about Republicans."

Use it on them, before they use it on us.

Your shot about acting like adults is extremely condescending. I'm glad most Dems actually are adult enough to know better than to take your advice.

What is partician politics?

Publicly denouce left wing ideals? That's suicide for any Democrat.

That's some DLC nonsense. Hope you stick around to defend it.

Edit: My bad...just now realizing this is not you, but a post from elsewhere. You need to use quotes or something.

[Dr.Phool]

6. You certainly made me want to puke.

On the advice to Dems to publicly denounce left wing ideals. Many of the things that have made our country great were based on "left wing" and New Deal ideas. Is it a bad idea to have government programs to take care of the elderly, the disabled, the sick. I don't think we go far enough in this area. As the old corporate, industry, and workplace based insurance coverage is unraveling, we need to work to replace this with a GOVERNMENT based system.

As for admitting tha t the war in Iraq has some redeeming value, forget it. We had a very small window of opportunity to do some good, and we screwed the pooch big time, turning the country over to the totally incompetent, and thoroughly corrupt CPA. Not to mention the fact, that I told everyone who would listen before the invasion, that the BEST outcome we could hope for, in this situation would be a Iran style Shia theocracy. All you had to do was glance at the demographics.

I could go on for another hour, but have other things to do.

[Psst_Im_Not_Here]

7. Why not turn it around on them?

Take the exact same format and write what you think would "bring us all together". For instance, make one of the things that republicans have to do is "Publically denounce all of the right wing ideals".

[apnu]

11. I took a stab at that in post #8

What do you think?

[apnu]

8. In the spirit of being fair, I'd combine both of the lists into one...

... for both parties.

1) actually and forcefully control spending.
2) understanding that values are perspective.
3) Openly offer complete open dialog with all parties.
4) Be more open with the media, and reinstate the Fairness Doctrine.
5) Respect the President, but also submit respectful people to be president.
6) Stop playing politics with issues.
7) Publicly denounce extremist ideals (left and right).
8) Have true, open elections with voter verified ballots (receipts).

I disagree withthe 6th option explanation. Because "left wing" ideals (were you to listen to a Republican or media poodle) includes actually centrist views. Such as solutions for poverty, education, medicine, and fair election laws. Right wing ideals, to me, include ramming Protestant Christian religions down people's throats and making laws that conform to, and only to, America's particular brand of Christianity.

So let's really look at the extremes of both parties and stop with all this "wing ideal" nonsense and call a spade a spade. Extremism in both parties isn't helping anything. I think they trying to say that there's hate on both sides of the debate, and we need to get rid of the hate, so we can move on with responsibly governing ourselves.

(on edit: I updated the language because I realised that the original poster isn't actually the author of the post, that he/she is repeating the post from elsewhere)

[Pryderi]

15. Every time lefties "fight fair", the righties sucker punch them.

I will no longer criticize a far leftie, until I see righties criticize a member of their party.

[apnu]

18. oh yes I totally agree with you there.

The initial moron post, and my amended list, can only exist in fantasyland.

The right, no matter how centrist they think they are, would never submit to such a code of ethics so it makes the whole exercise moot.

I am strangely fascinated by the initial post. To see the kool-aid in action is kinda like watching a car wreck.

[Pryderi]

22. His underlying premise is that if you criticize our president, we're

hurting our troops and the Iraqi people!

"politics are being used to subvert the efforts of the Iraqi people, the military servicemen, and the entire democratic process that Iraq has successfully begun. Now, don't get me wrong. I fully understand that liberals hate conservatives and conservatives hate liberals, but what we're getting into is something very very ugly. Our parties, jointly, whether for the war or against it, are going to damage our country and it's stength by denying our troops the public and international support they deserve."

Translation: Stop dissenting.

[warrens]

9. Wow, that was really ignorant

Partican?

There are a handful of Republicans we can deal with, but only a handful. The rest are basically lying traitors. Fuck em.

[Chiyo-chichi]

10. OK

1. Openly show respect for the presidency.

I have a great deal of respect for the presidency. I have no respect for George W. Bush.


3. Stop alluding to Bush being a liar. If you believe he is, say it outright.

I believe that George W. Bush is a liar.

[Pryderi]

12. Why do politicians have such a hard time calling someone a liar

straight up

[apnu]

13. I think they have trouble saying anything straight up.

Except for many members of the House. Those cats have to deal with so much noise that you gotta be straight up most of the time.

[Chiyo-chichi]

14. Here is but one of his many lies.

"But for those who say we haven't found the banned manufacturing devices or banned weapons, they're wrong, we found them."

--George W. Bush
Interview with TVP Poland
5/30/2003

[Ravenseye]

16. I just laugh when republicans talk about respecting the presidency

It takes a serious amount of balls for them to say that after how they acted for 8 years under Clinton. They showed him no respect. They showed his wife no respect. They showed his poor teenage daughter no respect. Hell, they didn't even show his pets any respect.

Now they have a President in office and they're shocked, shocked they say, at how disrepectful democrats are towards the presidency.

They're such little whiny bitches sometimes. Waaa. Waaa. It annoys me to no end.

[FreedomAngel82]

26. Exactly

Next time they ask you to show respect to Bush ask them if they respected Clinton. Heck no they didn't! So I'm not going to support or respect Bush period. He's a thief, liar and war criminal.

[zbdent]

19. When a Republican says he wants to "dialogue" with Dems, it means

that they want to spout, and have the Dems just sit there and agree . . .

They don't really understand the word "dialogue" . . . unless it's a rich person handing over cash . . .

[Cleita]

20. A fairly literate post for a change but totally dellusional.

This guy must keep going back to the Kool-aid to validate what he wants to believe. Too bad there isn't a truth serum to throw into that Kool-aid that might motivate him to start seeking the facts to prove or disprove his position. Mostly, they would be disproved with that approach.

[Swamp Rat]

23. That's an understatement.

:eyes:

[depakid]

21. How is it that seemingly rational people are in fact delusional?

Impressive.

Just goes to show you the power of propaganda and lies repeated over and over to ignorant, uncritical minds....

[Cats Against Frist]

25. Grrrrrrr

I have to agree with the dumbass in the OP -- many "left-wing" social institutions are much more radical than the constructs of the right-wing patriarchal society -- but, only because they've attempted to push us so far back into the dark ages. Left to its own devices, seems to me, the rational human mind, without all the fairy tales, would have found a much better way to co-exist, both filially, and institutionally.

People think I'm a wingnut, because I say I'm a libertarian -- but here's where I get very left-wing and radical: I'm against the individual family home. I think that it is all an illusion, based on the supremacy of the patriarch, the consumer impulse and a selfish love for wastefulness.

Seems to me that if everyone could chill out on the "I'm so fucking important," the authoritarianism, and the consumerism, that we would do quite well -- better, as a matter of fact, as tribes, communes, extended family households and cooperatives. I don't particularly care about gay marriage or open marriage or polygamy or polyandry, so I say -- what the fuck ever -- let's do this thing.

Wow, this is a total tangent -- but that comment really pisses me off. Seems to me that the "order" of the "protestant" society is the most boring and stifiling and repressed and hierarchical system we could come up with, next to slavery and feudalism. Yay.

[Swamp Rat]

27. ACT LIKE ADULTS??? GOOD GRIEF! STOP KILLING PEOPLE FOR OIL!!!

"I, as a conservative, will support that president. (except Hillary)" - Hypocrite! How's that for a direct response?

"Left wing ideals typically are ideas that are there to cause massive change very quickly." - Did you make that up yourself or read it somewhere in the National Review?

"Republican right wing ideals are based almost completely, on traditional long lasting cultural values." - Horse puckey! This fictitious construct of "cultural values" is getting worn out. :eyes:

"1. Openly show respect for the presidency." - Democrats already do. I'm waiting for the republicans to start respecting the U.S. Constitution (hint: like Rep. Ron Paul)
"2. Admit that the war in Iraq has potential to be a great catalyst to change in the reason for good." - Said in true Orwellian fashion.
"3. Stop alluding to Bush being a liar. If you believe he is, say it outright." - We do, but get called "traitors" by people whom I consider fascist.
"4. Openly offer complete dialogue with the centrist republicans." - Still waiting on those so called "centrist republicans" to come half way... They can begin by publicly denouncing Bushler.
"5. Stop playing partician politics with issues that weaken our country." - OK, then let's change our form of government then, where there are no political parties.
"6. Publically denounce left wing ideals." - Never! I will fight to the death for what some call "left wing ideals." Some call it "Christian ideals," but it seems the GOP has trademarked Jesus™ and Christianity™. It appears his philosophy is now called socialism, communist, or "left wing ideals," ad nauseum.

[EstimatedProphet]

28. Which forum did this come from? www.fuckwit.com?

Where to even start...

2. Understand that values are perspective. (Very hard for me to say)
It must be very hard for you to say that, if you admit to being a Republican. "Values" means what, exactly? Does it mean you resent gays? That's not a value, that's a lack of a value, and your evil party taking possession of "values" in the last election did nothing but demean the word. The Constitution is an inclusive document, not an exclusive one. That's a value. Quit being stupid.

3. Openly offer complete open dialogue with the centrist democrats
God forbid you have open dialogue with the left. Our opinions are meaningless, aren't they. We're all demon spawn here just to make you accept welfare and drink Merlot.
You said you wanted to heal the divisions in this country. We're a substantial part of this country, and we're sick of people like you trying to push us away. Stupid.

1. Openly show respect for the presidency. (Vise versa if Dems have office)
Sure, we're the ones that don't respect the office of President.
You are the assholes that attacked Clinton for 8 years-we can forget the Monica thing, because it was only a sideshow in the "Let's destroy the United States trying to get Clinton" festival that you put on, and you're now saying WE don't respect the Presidency? That trend started long before Bush took office, and you drove it all.
We respect the office of President. We just don't respect the man holding the office. Give us one that's worthy of respect, and we'll respect him. Put an embarrassment in there instead, and we'll complain, stupid.

2. Admit that the war in Iraq has potential to be a great catalyst to change in the reason for good.
You have to be kidding. Are you actually trying to say that our conquering an independent country that posed us no threat and was more modernized and progressive than any of its neighbors, only to replace it with a fundamentalist regime that hates us, IS A GOOD THING?
You're stupid.

3. Stop alluding to Bush being a liar. If you believe he is, say it outright.
HOW MANY FUCKING TIMES DO WE HAVE TO?!?! Who's "alluding"? I'm not. Bush is a liar. LIAR. LIARLIARLIARPANTSONFIRE!!!Bush is such a liar, he doesn't even have to say anything to lie. Bush is such a liar, his existence is a lie. LIAR!!! Stupid.

4. Openly offer complete dialogue with the centrist republicans
What the hell is a "centrist" republican? Would that be the person who called me a traitor because I didn't agree with going to war? You're stupid.

5. Stop playing partician politics with issues that weaken our country. Debate is fine, but don't say you "didn't", when you "did" when it was politically viable. (aka poll data)
Oh please...Everyone in the Republican party has been screaming for the last 5 years as if there were an imitate Joe McCarthy contest for a $10 million prize. Republicans INVENTED partisan politics, and they practice it as if they were real WWII Partizans too. You people invented hypocricy. Don't even begin to pin it on us-that's just more of your hypocrisy, stupid.

6. Publically denounce left wing ideals.
Like what? Worker's rights? Freedom for all under the constitution? An end to imperialism and conquest? Equality for all? Those are the left wing ideals, and you know it. I'm sure you'd love for us to denounce those in favor of corporate hegemony, wouldn't you? Won't happen, stupid.

And then there's this gem:

Notice that the 6th option for dems isn't included with Republicans. It is for this reason. Left wing ideals typically are ideas that are there to cause massive change very quickly. Republican right wing ideals are based almost completely, on traditional long lasting cultural values. These values perhaps do need to change as a population becomes more diverse. But, to forcefully and hastily create change without periods of adjustment often create the divisions you see today. Republicans/conservatives believe in traditional values and do change, but expect that change to occur according to the majority. Because conservatives values are centrally inbedded in protestant christian beliefs, the conservatives are a majority in this fashion.

Is THAT what you think the difference is? Left wing ideals are different than right wing ideals because they are supposed to be FASTER?
Aren't you embarrassed even saying something so stupid?
Here's a primer, Mr. Wizard. Left wing ideals favor the power of the people over the power of the government. Right wing ideals are the reverse. Your "republicans believe in traditional values" is simply ignorant. Racism used to be a traditional value...oh wait. OK-slavery used to be a...no you guys like that too.
Why should Protestant Christian beliefs be the overriding opinion? I am a Protestant, and I don't believe this. Again, the Constitution is inclusive. It isn't a religious document in Protestant churches, stupid.

You openly claim that if Hillary Clinton is elected President, then you will not support her-at the same time you tell us that we need to be more accepting. You are stupid.

You complain that we like to bitch and moan about each other, but we have a reason to do so: you are stupid. Your side is angry at being shut out of politics for so long. Too bad. You deserve it. Sanely run countries don't let the delusional and mentally incompetent run the government.

[Swamp Rat]

29. RIGHT ON!!!

"Racism used to be a traditional value...oh wait. OK-slavery used to be a...no you guys like that too." - YES they do! That's why it dragged on for so long... "kain't have dem nigras gettin' all uppity and wantin' to vote! Shoulda never let da wemmonfolk outta da kitchen in da first place! Demz iz famly valyooz!" ... ad infinitum ad nauseum ...

STUPID motherfucking Nazis!